Sarah Tisdale

I can see Jim/Candi's point. What about other options? Can we
convince 4s to upgrade to 3 to swell the cat3 ranks?

=========
Upgrade rules from 4 to 3:
http://www.obra.org/upgrade_rules.html#road
"20 points in the previous 12 months; or
experience in 25 races.
30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade."

==========
I am a Cat4 woman racer and have been for a few years. I have
experience well over >25 races and raced ~5 crits. I do not have
anywhere near 20 upgrade points though. Basically, while I'm a strong
rider, I'm not a great climber or sprinter, which makes it hard to get
points. So far, I haven't taken the plunge and upgraded.

My reasons to upgrade:
+ fewer "sketchy" riders (but that's mostly early season & crits)
+ Longer races might suit my "endurance" abilities better.
+ Racing against faster competition would make me a faster racer

My reasons not to upgrade:
- I'm already getting my ass kicked in any race with a decent
climb. Racing with 3s (nevermind the 1/2s) will be even worse!
- I've seen some 4s upgrade and get discouraged by not being
competitive in the 1/2/3 fields.

==========
Let's call "experienced 4s" all cat4 racers with >25 races, but not
enough points to upgrade. Let's count them/us. If there aren't that
many, the whole following discussion is moot.

1. If all the "experienced 4s" upgraded, would there be enough 3s to
break the 3s from the 1/2s? Separating the 1/2 and 3 fields might
convince "experienced 4s" that upgrading wouldn't be so bad. Of
course, there aren't enough 1/2 racers to make 1/2-only races viable
anyway, so that idea doesn't work.

2. Maybe if all the "experienced 4s" upgraded, there would be enough
"slow 3s" that we wouldn't feel like we'd be DFL on every race. If I
knew a bunch of other "experienced 4s" were upgrading, I might be
willing to join in!

OBRA rulez!

Sarah

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Candi Murray wrote:
> I agree with Jim's comments entirely.  My worry to the proposed change is
> also that new and slower riders would be discouraged from racing in the 3/4
> because of the increased pace and would not stick with the sport. The
> largest women's field is the Cat 4 women field.  There is a good reason for
> this and to pollute the pool does not make sense.
> Candi Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:44 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Proposed category change for OBRA Road and Crit racing
>
> Folks,
>
> OBRA is making a change to the women's road/crit fields to offer 1/2/3 as
> well as 3/4 groups allowing the 3s to pick where they want to race.  Please
> send your comments (for or against) to Kenji.
>
> I agree with the goal to increase participation by women in the 3s and 4s,
> but I feel this will NOT have the desired effect.
>
> The supposition is that there are 4s who've been upgraded to the 3s only to
> find they cannot keep up with the 1/2/3 fields.  This change will let the
> slow 3s gain experience and fitness with the 4s before they start really
> racing with the 1/2/3s.
>
> The issue is with the upgrade criteria/implementation, not with the category
> structure.
>
> One issue with the current 4s field is that it's too fast to encourage new
> beginner ladies to race because the fast 4s, while not having sufficient
> points to upgrade, really need to be moved up to the 3s...and WANT to be
> moved up.  If 3s are allowed to race in the 4s, this discrepancy will get
> worse.  If the 3s can "race down" with the 4s, this will draw down an
> already small 1/2/3 field at most road races.  As the promoter of Cherry
> Pie, the 1/2/3 field has barely had 10 riders for the past two years...most
> of them 3s.  This change would cause us to reconsider even offering a 1/2
> field for the women.
>
> If the goal is to increase participation...to grow the 3s, we need to grow
> the 4s...and this cannot happen if the 4s are too fast to encourage new
> beginner riders.
>
> I suggest we do the following:
> 1.) Keep the categories as they are.
> 2.) Encourage/enable the fast 4s to move up, thus growing the 3s, and
> encourage the promoters/judges to score them separately. (May require a
> change to upgrade criteria and futher discussiona and a team rep vote in
> January.)
> 3.) Encourage/enable the slower cat 3s to downgrade.  Our lives and bodies
> change, and we may lose fitness as a result.  Downgrades offer an
> opportunity for racing in an appropriate category while still having fun.
>
> I'd be curious to hear other points of view if you want to share.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jim Fischer
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