Michelle Lichtenfels

Spencer - good point, and I think it gets to Kenji's point about a lack of
an intermediate step here - namely, the absense of an all-Cat 3 women's
field.

When I upgraded to Cat 3, I effectively upgraded to the Cat 1/2s as well. I
absolutely agree that racing is supposed to be hard, but I don't see Cat 3
men heading up against Cat 1/2 men in every race.

I also want to make another plug for the fact that it's already difficult to
stay competitive at the Cat 3 level, much less a 1/2 level, when you have a
family and a full time job, but don't quite qualify to be in the Masters
field.

Michelle

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Bushnell, Spencer <
SPENCER.BUSHNELL@providence.org> wrote:

> I disagree-
>
> the upgrade to a cat 3 is tough enough. a 3/4 field definitely benefits
> the cat 3 riders and 4s. the pack speeds are not that much harder than just
> a 4 field, but the SKILL level is very close. so the women can increase
> speeds incrementally while being the in same realm of skill level (which
> often can dictate speed and hardness of a race, ie riding in in the wind, on
> the hoods, large gaps etc).
>
> you dont see very many cat 3 men owning PIR in the 1/2/3 field, and they
> have the benefit of cat 3 only fields to gain experience/skill/ and then
> fitness. i think the next best thing is the 3/4 field.
>
> my 2 cents
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Garcia
> Sent: Tue 5/12/2009 9:04 PM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Proposed category change for OBRA Road and
> Critracing
>
>
> Exactly! Well said Meg!
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Meg Mautner
> To: Candi Murray ; OBRA
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:41:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Proposed category change for OBRA Road and Crit
> racing
>
> I agree with Candi and Jim. I don't see how combining the 3's and 4's helps
> out either field. It would seem that the 4's (already a big field) would get
> discouraged by having to race with the 3's. The 3's don't gain any
> experience by riding with the 4's. In a 1/2/3 field, the 3's gain the
> experience of the stronger riders. They've been upgraded based on their
> ability to race well. It's bike racing; it's supposed to be hard.
>
> Meg
>
> On May 12, 2009, at 10:58 AM, Candi Murray wrote:
>
> > I agree with Jim's comments entirely. My worry to the proposed change is
> > also that new and slower riders would be discouraged from racing in the
> 3/4
> > because of the increased pace and would not stick with the sport. The
> > largest women's field is the Cat 4 women field. There is a good reason
> for
> > this and to pollute the pool does not make sense.
> > Candi Murray
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of Fischer, Jim E (Corvallis)
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:44 AM
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Proposed category change for OBRA Road and Crit
> racing
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > OBRA is making a change to the women's road/crit fields to offer 1/2/3 as
> > well as 3/4 groups allowing the 3s to pick where they want to race.
> Please
> > send your comments (for or against) to Kenji.
> >
> > I agree with the goal to increase participation by women in the 3s and
> 4s,
> > but I feel this will NOT have the desired effect.
> >
> > The supposition is that there are 4s who've been upgraded to the 3s only
> to
> > find they cannot keep up with the 1/2/3 fields. This change will let the
> > slow 3s gain experience and fitness with the 4s before they start really
> > racing with the 1/2/3s.
> >
> > The issue is with the upgrade criteria/implementation, not with the
> category
> > structure.
> >
> > One issue with the current 4s field is that it's too fast to encourage
> new
> > beginner ladies to race because the fast 4s, while not having sufficient
> > points to upgrade, really need to be moved up to the 3s...and WANT to be
> > moved up. If 3s are allowed to race in the 4s, this discrepancy will get
> > worse. If the 3s can "race down" with the 4s, this will draw down an
> > already small 1/2/3 field at most road races. As the promoter of Cherry
> > Pie, the 1/2/3 field has barely had 10 riders for the past two
> years...most
> > of them 3s. This change would cause us to reconsider even offering a 1/2
> > field for the women.
> >
> > If the goal is to increase participation...to grow the 3s, we need to
> grow
> > the 4s...and this cannot happen if the 4s are too fast to encourage new
> > beginner riders.
> >
> > I suggest we do the following:
> > 1.) Keep the categories as they are.
> > 2.) Encourage/enable the fast 4s to move up, thus growing the 3s, and
> > encourage the promoters/judges to score them separately. (May require a
> > change to upgrade criteria and futher discussiona and a team rep vote in
> > January.)
> > 3.) Encourage/enable the slower cat 3s to downgrade. Our lives and
> bodies
> > change, and we may lose fitness as a result. Downgrades offer an
> > opportunity for racing in an appropriate category while still having fun.
> >
> > I'd be curious to hear other points of view if you want to share.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jim Fischer
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