Dan H
Thank you for that Erik.
How many times have you had a customer come in with the bike they just bought off craigslist for a minor tune up only to learn it needs hundreds of dollars worth of work to make it go? This is an almost daily occurrence at my store. I've seen broken headsets, headsets missing parts, bent frames and wheels rebuilt with a rim too large for the spokes that were from the original wheel so that only a few nipple threads engage. When I tell the customer, they look at me like I'm trying to jack the labor and I'm the villain.
Folks, if you play with craigslist, you better know what you are looking for.
I too understand the need to save money. If you must buy used, get the seller to make the sale contingent on letting a pro inspect it first.
Dan Houghton
Southwest Bicycle
----- Original Message -----
From: Erik Long
To: sarah.s.tisdale@gmail.com ; Obra
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:36 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] The cost of buying second-hand (from the Jury)
Evan and Dan's issue is big, round, shiny example of how buying your crap second-hand catches up with you. I realize the need to save money. I realize that we all want to ride a decent bike without breaking the bank. I have bought many used parts and such throughout my life.
With that said, BICYCLE DEALERS EXIST FOR MANY REASONS. Warranties are one of them. Frames break. Wheels crack. Bike shops take care of things like that for cheap or free on bikes under warranty. They also tend to only sell product that they can back, which is something that no private party can be expected to do.
I know that bikes, frames, wheels, and various other parts that I sell can be found on craigslist and frequently here on the OBRA list - and cheap, too (I've been tempted a few times myself). But the seller is usually not the industry professional that you'd talk to at an IBD, and usually isn't fully aware of the condition of his own equipment. I do bike repair for a living. I've seen bikes bought with cracked rims, ovalized headtubes, wheels up to 6mm off-dish, and even cracks in the frame that the previous owner simply didn't know about. It's not their fault. When bikes aren't your line of work, you can't be expected to spot every detail. There lies the risk of buying second-hand. Being cheap can be expensive.
From a professional point of view, it sounds to me like the frame itself has a defect. This is the responsibility of the manufacturer WHEN YOU'VE PURCHASED THE BIKE FROM THE MANUFACTURER OR AUTHORISED DEALER. But the frame was not bought from a dealer. Dan can't really be held responsible as he did not build the frame. The breakage isn't really Evan's "fault" because he was using the frame the way it was intended. However as the legal owner of a bike with zero warranty, Evan is solely liable and it is his responsibility to replace or repair his own frame. If evan had opened his wallet for a frame at bike shop and had it break, he'd have a replacement on the way by now, free of charge.
Bike shops are there to help you, not to screw you. The profit they actually make is pretty pathetic for all the time, work, and experience required to do it right (I could easily double my income if I changed my line of work). It truly is all about putting someone on a great bike that they can feel good about.
-Erik
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:11:29 -0700
> From: sarah.s.tisdale@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
>
> This seems like a very dicey way to settle a dispute. Here's my opinion.
>
> If Evan, after finding out about the extra work required, asked to
> cancel the exchange within ~30 days and before seriously riding the
> frame, I'd side with him.
>
> But since Evan had it for "a few months" and rode the frame
> "~200miles", I'm inclined to side with Dan.
>
> Still, its a little grey and $100 is *fairly* small.
>
> I vote for "do whatever results in fewest hard feelings": Split it
> $50/$50. Evan eats $50 of the cost. Dan gives $50 to Evan. Seems
> the best way to get past any bad feelings.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Ron and Dorothy
> Strasser wrote:
> > Good post Chriss. I also think Dan should be talking to the person who gave
> > him frame "with the understanding that it was a rideable frame" about what
> > that was all about. Sounds like that was NOT the case at all. Might have
> > been an honest lack of knowledge about this frame. The story (facts left
> > our or added) can change as it passes from one person to the next. I do
> > hope Dan and Evan can work this out in a manner that does not get nasty.
> > There are more important things in life than bike stuff, including finding
> > ways to keep your stress levels low.
> > Good luck you two. I am sure you will receive even more "verdicts" from
> > your peers.
> > ron
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "chriss"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Jury of peers needed
> >
> >
> >> No real side here but hey a debate is a debate. As someone who has had to
> >> warranty a frame or two that i've sold I am wondering what Dan would do if
> >> there was a roll reversal here?
> >>
> >>
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