joe cipale

The movie Patton was great... up until the end where it should him walking
away. Anyone who read the book knows he was killed in a motor vehicle
accident while on a hunting trip.

On Thursday 09 July 2009 21:08, john wrote:
> such nerds! probably both correct, i would hazard to guess most
> senior military officers have said it! according to wikipedia Helmuth
> Graf von Moltke is the first to say that line, but probably Sun Tzu said in
> so many words as well in the art of war, 6th century BC.
> from wiki: {Later Prussian and German generals such as Helmuth Graf von
> Moltke were
> clearly influenced by Clausewitz: Moltke's famous statement that "No
> campaign plan survives first contact with the enemy" is a classic
> reflection of Clausewitz's insistence on the roles of chance, friction,
> "fog," and uncertainty in war. The idea that actual war includes "friction"
> which deranges, to a greater or lesser degree, all prior arrangements, has
> become common currency in other fields as well (e.g., business strategy,
> sports).}
>
> by the way a fascinating book, and probably by far the best book on Patton,
> to read is Patton: A Genius for War by Carlo D'este
>
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:12 PM, MARK STEGER wrote:
> > It was Irwin Rommel, the Desert Fox.
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:52:33 -0700
> > From: hagenkt@mac.com
> > To: scottjones007@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Monday Night PIR Thoughts
> >
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > Well put. I think you are very clear at the start. But as Patton said,
> > no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy. Maybe it wasn’t
> > Patton.
> >
> > Anyway,
> >
> > Here’s what I see:
> >
> >
> > 1. The group being overtaken doesn’t seem to hear the overtaking group
> > until the group behind is right on top of the group ahead. This is
> > especially true when it’s only a few riders doing the overtaking. So
> > when you yell “Stay right” or whatever, you’re probably already
> > overtaking on the left and the hope that the group being overtaken all
> > does the right thing is often a pipe dream at best.
> > 2. There are too many egos involved on both sides. There, I said it.
> > 3. I was passing a women’s group a few weeks ago and when I yelled “on
> > your left” I got a chorus of “we’re in our last lap” replies. Is this
> > true? If a group being overtaken is in their last lap (this was on the
> > back wall), they don’t need to neutralize?
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I don’t know an easy solution here. I raced Pacific Raceways in
> > Seattle two weeks ago and we had the same issue. In fact, I was in a
> > masters break and the 1-2 guys repeatedly failed to neutralized when we
> > passed them. Again and again.
> >
> > Karsten
> >
> >
> > On 7/9/09 3:43 PM, "Scott Jones" wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > The last few weeks have had some hairy incidents at Monday Night PIR when
> > it comes to neutralizing/overtaking other groups. I tried to explain this
> > last night and got some positive and negative feedback. I am writing this
> > message for several reasons, but mostly for rider feedback. As a racer
> > myself, I know that things out on the road can be perceived one way by
> > one person and another way by others. I'm going to lay a few things out
> > for you and would enjoy your feedback.
> >
> > First, this week when I asked the men's fields to give the other groups,
> > especially the ladies, plenty of room and you guys tried to laugh it off
> > as no big deal, that wasn't very sportsman like. I got another report of
> > it happening last night, not cool guys! Is there really this big of an
> > issue to give another group room on the road? PIR has a surface that is
> > well over 20 feet wide in all areas, so why do you need to buzz another
> > group when overtaking? I realize that things happen on the road, people
> > can be all over the place, groups can be wide, moving around, attacking,
> > etc. and I can't see the whole track, but after last week when the
> > 1/2/3's decided to literally buzz the women that were neutralized and
> > going at least 15mph slower than you while hugging the concrete wall,
> > *directly in front of the officials*, your word on giving them room where
> > I can't see you lacks credibility. Sorry guys, its the truth and I hate
> > hearing from the women on an almost weekly basis of this happening. Look,
> > if you give them room I won't have to keep reminding you to be respectful
> > of other racers.
> >
> > Second, when you are overtaking a group, be vocal, "On your right/left",
> > choose one side and stay there. The group that you are about to overtake
> > most likely knows you are coming and should slow down and let you pass as
> > easily as possible. Of course there are turns at PIR where passing can
> > get touchy, but it shouldn't be this big of an issue year after year. The
> > group that is being neutralized/overtaken needs to stay neutral until a
> > time when you can resume racing and not immediately get on top of or
> > immediately be in a position to overtake the group that just passed you.
> > This should be a good 30+ seconds of room if not more. I know you want to
> > race, but you need to give that space. When we are road races the lead
> > car sits there until the official gives the word to move and race, but we
> > don't have that luxury at PIR, you are on your own to do this. The group
> > that is doing the overtaking should NOT slow down after overtaking a
> > group, keep racing!
> >
> > Third, remember that when your race is over that there is no cooling down
> > on the course. Please exit to the infield and cool down there. There are
> > racces still going and the course is colsed once the first race starts.
> >
> > Fourth, you need to sign in on the start sheet prior to lining up to race
> > and you need to make sure your number is on the correct side and visible.
> > I do not like my chief judge spending his own time trying to determine
> > and place people who's number are placed in such a way that its almost
> > impossible to recognize. Please use more than 4 pins when pinning your
> > number, as that helps eliminate folding and flapping.
> >
> > Although I try very hard to get the groups out on the course in a way to
> > prevent overtaking immediately or shortly after starting your race, it is
> > not always possible.
> >
> > Questions for feedback:
> >
> > 1) Is there a problem with my instructions on neutral/overtaking?
> >
> > 2) How do you think things could be changed to improve the process?
> >
> > 3) How did you guys like the moto on the course a few weeks ago?
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your time and feedback,
> > Scott Jones
> > Cheif Ref Monday PIR
> > ------------------------------
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