Sarah Tisdale
In my experience, we're more likely to get "buzzed" when we're
neutralizing on the inside. This seems logical - its simply a longer
line (most of the time at PIR) to ride outside and give us a lot of
room while overtaking.
Of course, since the inside line is (most of the time) shorter, we're
usually riding the inside line ourselves. If we don't hear the
overtaking group until they're on us, there's no time to move outside.
This is why we often end up neutralizing on the inside.
Maybe a solution would be to somehow give the group being overtaken
better notice so they can more reliably get to the outside of the
track. At the west end of the track, we can usually look over our
shoulder and see a group coming. It's harder on the back straight and
turns 11&12.
Sarah
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 9:20 PM, joe cipale wrote:
>> > ------------------------------
>> > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:52:33 -0700
>> > From: hagenkt@mac.com
>> > To: scottjones007@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Monday Night PIR Thoughts
>> >
>> >
>> > Scott,
>> >
>> > Well put. I think you are very clear at the start. But as Patton said,
>> > no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy. Maybe it wasn’t
>> > Patton.
>> >
>> > Anyway,
>> >
>> > Here’s what I see:
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. The group being overtaken doesn’t seem to hear the overtaking group
>> > until the group behind is right on top of the group ahead. This is
>> > especially true when it’s only a few riders doing the overtaking. So
>> > when you yell “Stay right” or whatever, you’re probably already
>> > overtaking on the left and the hope that the group being overtaken all
>> > does the right thing is often a pipe dream at best.
>> > 2. There are too many egos involved on both sides. There, I said it.
>> > 3. I was passing a women’s group a few weeks ago and when I yelled “on
>> > your left” I got a chorus of “we’re in our last lap” replies. Is this
>> > true? If a group being overtaken is in their last lap (this was on the
>> > back wall), they don’t need to neutralize?
>> >
>> >
>> > Anyway, I don’t know an easy solution here. I raced Pacific Raceways in
>> > Seattle two weeks ago and we had the same issue. In fact, I was in a
>> > masters break and the 1-2 guys repeatedly failed to neutralized when we
>> > passed them. Again and again.
>> >
>> > Karsten
>> >
>> >
>> > On 7/9/09 3:43 PM, "Scott Jones" wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > The last few weeks have had some hairy incidents at Monday Night PIR when
>> > it comes to neutralizing/overtaking other groups. I tried to explain this
>> > last night and got some positive and negative feedback. I am writing this
>> > message for several reasons, but mostly for rider feedback. As a racer
>> > myself, I know that things out on the road can be perceived one way by
>> > one person and another way by others. I'm going to lay a few things out
>> > for you and would enjoy your feedback.
>> >
>> > First, this week when I asked the men's fields to give the other groups,
>> > especially the ladies, plenty of room and you guys tried to laugh it off
>> > as no big deal, that wasn't very sportsman like. I got another report of
>> > it happening last night, not cool guys! Is there really this big of an
>> > issue to give another group room on the road? PIR has a surface that is
>> > well over 20 feet wide in all areas, so why do you need to buzz another
>> > group when overtaking? I realize that things happen on the road, people
>> > can be all over the place, groups can be wide, moving around, attacking,
>> > etc. and I can't see the whole track, but after last week when the
>> > 1/2/3's decided to literally buzz the women that were neutralized and
>> > going at least 15mph slower than you while hugging the concrete wall,
>> > *directly in front of the officials*, your word on giving them room where
>> > I can't see you lacks credibility. Sorry guys, its the truth and I hate
>> > hearing from the women on an almost weekly basis of this happening. Look,
>> > if you give them room I won't have to keep reminding you to be respectful
>> > of other racers.
>> >
>> > Second, when you are overtaking a group, be vocal, "On your right/left",
>> > choose one side and stay there. The group that you are about to overtake
>> > most likely knows you are coming and should slow down and let you pass as
>> > easily as possible. Of course there are turns at PIR where passing can
>> > get touchy, but it shouldn't be this big of an issue year after year. The
>> > group that is being neutralized/overtaken needs to stay neutral until a
>> > time when you can resume racing and not immediately get on top of or
>> > immediately be in a position to overtake the group that just passed you.
>> > This should be a good 30+ seconds of room if not more. I know you want to
>> > race, but you need to give that space. When we are road races the lead
>> > car sits there until the official gives the word to move and race, but we
>> > don't have that luxury at PIR, you are on your own to do this. The group
>> > that is doing the overtaking should NOT slow down after overtaking a
>> > group, keep racing!
>> >
>> > Third, remember that when your race is over that there is no cooling down
>> > on the course. Please exit to the infield and cool down there. There are
>> > racces still going and the course is colsed once the first race starts.
>> >
>> > Fourth, you need to sign in on the start sheet prior to lining up to race
>> > and you need to make sure your number is on the correct side and visible.
>> > I do not like my chief judge spending his own time trying to determine
>> > and place people who's number are placed in such a way that its almost
>> > impossible to recognize. Please use more than 4 pins when pinning your
>> > number, as that helps eliminate folding and flapping.
>> >
>> > Although I try very hard to get the groups out on the course in a way to
>> > prevent overtaking immediately or shortly after starting your race, it is
>> > not always possible.
>> >
>> > Questions for feedback:
>> >
>> > 1) Is there a problem with my instructions on neutral/overtaking?
>> >
>> > 2) How do you think things could be changed to improve the process?
>> >
>> > 3) How did you guys like the moto on the course a few weeks ago?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your time and feedback,
>> > Scott Jones
>> > Cheif Ref Monday PIR
>> > ------------------------------
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