eric aldinger

Thanks Jonathan. I replied privately to Mike, but I want to say publically
that I was impressed with the support and courtesy of all of the emergency
workers along the route.

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Jonathan Maus wrote:

> Amity Chief of Police says 15 tickets were written. He has also written an
> open letter explaining his frustrations with traffic law violations which
> I've posted in its entirety
>
> http://is.gd/oN1Yei
>
>
> --Jonathan
> _____________________
> Jonathan Maus
> Editor & Publisher, BikePortland.org
> http://www.bikeportland.org
> News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
> jonathan@bikeportland.org
> http://twitter.com/bikeportland
>
> On May 23, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg wrote:
>
> Well, Arlo and i know each other, so maybe i should just talk to him but
> a part of me is tempted to take all these cases and try every single one of
> them.
>
> do we know how many people actually got tickets?
> is it 2 people and bunch of pissy obra emails or 50 and 2 of them were obra
> members or something in between?
>
> M
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
> Attorneys At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "eric939@redshift.com"
> *To:* Gregg Magnus
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Mon, May 23, 2011 11:40:10 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
>
> So, if Municipal Court is only one day a month, then it looks like it
> would be easy for all the cyclists who contest the citations to be able to
> be there and testify in support of each other?
>
> Once, I was able to overwhelm a traffic court all by myself. But then, I
> had the advantage of an incompetent traffic commissioner and two
> incompetent police. Maybe it will be the same here?
>
> == Eric
>
>
> >
> > Ok totally aside the point of whether the Amity PD guy was right or
> > wrong....I have my own opinions....I did some looking and found that
> Amity
> > has a Municipal Court. For those that don't remember, Coburg, North
> > Plains and a handful of other small towns, have municipal courts which
> > through the issuance of citations balance a portion of their budget on
> how
> > many tickets are written.
> >
> > The very interesting thing that I saw is that if you plead not guilty and
> > request a trial, which everyone has the right to do you will be charged
> > $30 to set a trial which will be added on to the bail amount of the
> > citation...running a stop sign class B violation probably already
> $280ish.
> > Now lets say you did run the stop sign but you would like to have the
> > citation reflect that you were a pedestrian so that it doesn't raise your
> > vehicle insurance, it looks like you would be charged the $30 just to see
> > if you can have that done as a judge has to declare this.
> >
> >
> http://www.ci.amity.or.us/MunicipalCourt/tabid/6106/language/en-US/Default.aspx
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> >
> >> To: obra@list.obra.org
> >> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> >> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:43:45 +0000
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
> >>
> >> Nope. We don't want either the police or OBRA to be "big brother".
> >>
> >> ------Original Message------
> >> From: dacrizzow
> >> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> >> To: remailer, OBRA
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
> >> Sent: May 23, 2011 06:36
> >>
> >> i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the
> >> benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their
> >> job to it's absolute utmost description?
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Mark J. Ginsberg

I didn't do reach the beach this year, so I can't speak to what happened, but if
Amity has an ongoing annual problem, it should be worked out between the event
and the city, and not taken out on the participants.

how about a course marshal?

M

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

________________________________
From: Jonathan Maus
To: Mark J. Ginsberg
Cc: eric939@redshift.com; Gregg Magnus ;
obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 4:48:41 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach

Amity Chief of Police says 15 tickets were written. He has also written an open
letter explaining his frustrations with traffic law violations which I've posted
in its entirety

http://is.gd/oN1Yei

--Jonathan
_____________________
Jonathan Maus
Editor & Publisher, BikePortland.org
http://www.bikeportland.org
News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
jonathan@bikeportland.org
http://twitter.com/bikeportland

On May 23, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg wrote:

Well, Arlo and i know each other, so maybe i should just talk to him but a part
of me is tempted to take all these cases and try every single one of them.
>
>do we know how many people actually got tickets?
>is it 2 people and bunch of pissy obra emails or 50 and 2 of them were obra
>members or something in between?
>
>M
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
>Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
>Attorneys At Law
>1216 SE Belmont St.
>Portland, OR 97214
>(503) 542-3000
>Fax (503) 233-6874
>markjginsberg@yahoo.com
>www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: "eric939@redshift.com"
>To: Gregg Magnus
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 11:40:10 AM
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
>
>So, if Municipal Court is only one day a month, then it looks like it
>would be easy for all the cyclists who contest the citations to be able to
>be there and testify in support of each other?
>
>Once, I was able to overwhelm a traffic court all by myself. But then, I
>had the advantage of an incompetent traffic commissioner and two
>incompetent police. Maybe it will be the same here?
>
>== Eric
>
>
>>
>> Ok totally aside the point of whether the Amity PD guy was right or
>> wrong....I have my own opinions....I did some looking and found that Amity
>> has a Municipal Court. For those that don't remember, Coburg, North
>> Plains and a handful of other small towns, have municipal courts which
>> through the issuance of citations balance a portion of their budget on how
>> many tickets are written.
>>
>> The very interesting thing that I saw is that if you plead not guilty and
>> request a trial, which everyone has the right to do you will be charged
>> $30 to set a trial which will be added on to the bail amount of the
>> citation...running a stop sign class B violation probably already $280ish.
>> Now lets say you did run the stop sign but you would like to have the
>> citation reflect that you were a pedestrian so that it doesn't raise your
>> vehicle insurance, it looks like you would be charged the $30 just to see
>> if you can have that done as a judge has to declare this.
>>
>> http://www.ci.amity.or.us/MunicipalCourt/tabid/6106/language/en-US/Default.aspx
>
>>
>> Gregg
>>
>>
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> From: mike.murray@obra.org
>>> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:43:45 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>>>
>>> Nope. We don't want either the police or OBRA to be "big brother".
>>>
>>> ------Original Message------
>>> From: dacrizzow
>>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>>> To: remailer, OBRA
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>>> Sent: May 23, 2011 06:36
>>>
>>> i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the
>>> benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their
>>> job to it's absolute utmost description?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Jonathan Maus

Amity Chief of Police says 15 tickets were written. He has also written an open letter explaining his frustrations with traffic law violations which I've posted in its entirety

http://is.gd/oN1Yei

--Jonathan
_____________________
Jonathan Maus
Editor & Publisher, BikePortland.org
http://www.bikeportland.org
News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
jonathan@bikeportland.org
http://twitter.com/bikeportland

On May 23, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg wrote:

> Well, Arlo and i know each other, so maybe i should just talk to him but a part of me is tempted to take all these cases and try every single one of them.
>
> do we know how many people actually got tickets?
> is it 2 people and bunch of pissy obra emails or 50 and 2 of them were obra members or something in between?
>
> M
>
> Mark J. Ginsberg
> Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
> Attorneys At Law
> 1216 SE Belmont St.
> Portland, OR 97214
> (503) 542-3000
> Fax (503) 233-6874
> markjginsberg@yahoo.com
> www.bikesafetylaw.com
>
>
> From: "eric939@redshift.com"
> To: Gregg Magnus
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 11:40:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
>
> So, if Municipal Court is only one day a month, then it looks like it
> would be easy for all the cyclists who contest the citations to be able to
> be there and testify in support of each other?
>
> Once, I was able to overwhelm a traffic court all by myself. But then, I
> had the advantage of an incompetent traffic commissioner and two
> incompetent police. Maybe it will be the same here?
>
> == Eric
>
>
> >
> > Ok totally aside the point of whether the Amity PD guy was right or
> > wrong....I have my own opinions....I did some looking and found that Amity
> > has a Municipal Court. For those that don't remember, Coburg, North
> > Plains and a handful of other small towns, have municipal courts which
> > through the issuance of citations balance a portion of their budget on how
> > many tickets are written.
> >
> > The very interesting thing that I saw is that if you plead not guilty and
> > request a trial, which everyone has the right to do you will be charged
> > $30 to set a trial which will be added on to the bail amount of the
> > citation...running a stop sign class B violation probably already $280ish.
> > Now lets say you did run the stop sign but you would like to have the
> > citation reflect that you were a pedestrian so that it doesn't raise your
> > vehicle insurance, it looks like you would be charged the $30 just to see
> > if you can have that done as a judge has to declare this.
> >
> > http://www.ci.amity.or.us/MunicipalCourt/tabid/6106/language/en-US/Default.aspx
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> >
> >> To: obra@list.obra.org
> >> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> >> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:43:45 +0000
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
> >>
> >> Nope. We don't want either the police or OBRA to be "big brother".
> >>
> >> ------Original Message------
> >> From: dacrizzow
> >> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> >> To: remailer, OBRA
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
> >> Sent: May 23, 2011 06:36
> >>
> >> i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the
> >> benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their
> >> job to it's absolute utmost description?
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg

Well, Arlo and i know each other, so maybe i should just talk to him but a part
of me is tempted to take all these cases and try every single one of them.

do we know how many people actually got tickets?
is it 2 people and bunch of pissy obra emails or 50 and 2 of them were obra
members or something in between?

M

Mark J. Ginsberg
Berkshire Ginsberg, LLC
Attorneys At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

________________________________
From: "eric939@redshift.com"
To: Gregg Magnus
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 11:40:10 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach

So, if Municipal Court is only one day a month, then it looks like it
would be easy for all the cyclists who contest the citations to be able to
be there and testify in support of each other?

Once, I was able to overwhelm a traffic court all by myself. But then, I
had the advantage of an incompetent traffic commissioner and two
incompetent police. Maybe it will be the same here?

== Eric

>
> Ok totally aside the point of whether the Amity PD guy was right or
> wrong....I have my own opinions....I did some looking and found that Amity
> has a Municipal Court. For those that don't remember, Coburg, North
> Plains and a handful of other small towns, have municipal courts which
> through the issuance of citations balance a portion of their budget on how
> many tickets are written.
>
> The very interesting thing that I saw is that if you plead not guilty and
> request a trial, which everyone has the right to do you will be charged
> $30 to set a trial which will be added on to the bail amount of the
> citation...running a stop sign class B violation probably already $280ish.
> Now lets say you did run the stop sign but you would like to have the
> citation reflect that you were a pedestrian so that it doesn't raise your
> vehicle insurance, it looks like you would be charged the $30 just to see
> if you can have that done as a judge has to declare this.
>
>
http://www.ci.amity.or.us/MunicipalCourt/tabid/6106/language/en-US/Default.aspx
>
> Gregg
>
>
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> From: mike.murray@obra.org
>> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:43:45 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>>
>> Nope. We don't want either the police or OBRA to be "big brother".
>>
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: dacrizzow
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>> To: remailer, OBRA
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>> Sent: May 23, 2011 06:36
>>
>> i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the
>> benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their
>> job to it's absolute utmost description?
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Randy Dreiling

Not saying the cops was right or wrong I was not there, but as a former city
councilor I can shed some light on your comments.

Coburg was a total scam, but I have not heard this about Amity.

City budgets are millions of dollars there is no way to realistly assume you
could make any real money off ticketing bike riders once a year and make any
real dent in the budget. Remember it takes time and money to process all those
tickets.
Now if you had a tea party controlled council then maybe they would be stupid
enough to think so.

The $30 fee is so people will actually show up. It cost money to set a trial,
to schedule staff and many times the judge is very part time because they can't
afford or frankly need a full time court. People love to put things off. The
$30 would likely be taken into account in your fine or if your were found not
guilty it would be refunded.

As for signage...if it was painted on the road and wrong then you are right it
is the promoters bad...if they were signs hanging on road signs and other
objects then what likely happened was they were moved by some jerk. I have had
this happen to me at events before. It could have been locals or it could have
been other cyclist. It might surprise you to know there is a cycling group and
website dedicated to messing with organized events. They feel strongly it is
wrong for people to charge for bike events.

Remember folks this is a charity bike event. We should be excited that so many
people got out on their bikes to help a great charity.

Take Care

Randy Dreiling

Owner - Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com

Promoter - Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com

________________________________
From: Gregg Magnus
To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 11:35:17 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach

Ok totally aside the point of whether the Amity PD guy was right or wrong....I
have my own opinions....I did some looking and found that Amity has a Municipal
Court. For those that don't remember, Coburg, North Plains and a handful of
other small towns, have municipal courts which through the issuance of citations
balance a portion of their budget on how many tickets are written.

The very interesting thing that I saw is that if you plead not guilty and
request a trial, which everyone has the right to do you will be charged $30 to
set a trial which will be added on to the bail amount of the citation...running
a stop sign class B violation probably already $280ish. Now lets say you did
run the stop sign but you would like to have the citation reflect that you were
a pedestrian so that it doesn't raise your vehicle insurance, it looks like you
would be charged the $30 just to see if you can have that done as a judge has to
declare this.

http://www.ci.amity.or.us/MunicipalCourt/tabid/6106/language/en-US/Default.aspx

Gregg


> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:43:45 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> Nope. We don't want either the police or OBRA to be "big brother".
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: dacrizzow
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: remailer, OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
> Sent: May 23, 2011 06:36
>
> i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the
>benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their job to
>it's absolute utmost description?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

eric939@redshift.com

So, if Municipal Court is only one day a month, then it looks like it
would be easy for all the cyclists who contest the citations to be able to
be there and testify in support of each other?

Once, I was able to overwhelm a traffic court all by myself. But then, I
had the advantage of an incompetent traffic commissioner and two
incompetent police. Maybe it will be the same here?

== Eric

>
> Ok totally aside the point of whether the Amity PD guy was right or
> wrong....I have my own opinions....I did some looking and found that Amity
> has a Municipal Court. For those that don't remember, Coburg, North
> Plains and a handful of other small towns, have municipal courts which
> through the issuance of citations balance a portion of their budget on how
> many tickets are written.
>
> The very interesting thing that I saw is that if you plead not guilty and
> request a trial, which everyone has the right to do you will be charged
> $30 to set a trial which will be added on to the bail amount of the
> citation...running a stop sign class B violation probably already $280ish.
> Now lets say you did run the stop sign but you would like to have the
> citation reflect that you were a pedestrian so that it doesn't raise your
> vehicle insurance, it looks like you would be charged the $30 just to see
> if you can have that done as a judge has to declare this.
>
> http://www.ci.amity.or.us/MunicipalCourt/tabid/6106/language/en-US/Default.aspx
>
> Gregg
>
>
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> From: mike.murray@obra.org
>> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:43:45 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>>
>> Nope. We don't want either the police or OBRA to be "big brother".
>>
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: dacrizzow
>> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>> To: remailer, OBRA
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>> Sent: May 23, 2011 06:36
>>
>> i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the
>> benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their
>> job to it's absolute utmost description?
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Gregg Magnus

Ok totally aside the point of whether the Amity PD guy was right or wrong....I have my own opinions....I did some looking and found that Amity has a Municipal Court. For those that don't remember, Coburg, North Plains and a handful of other small towns, have municipal courts which through the issuance of citations balance a portion of their budget on how many tickets are written.

The very interesting thing that I saw is that if you plead not guilty and request a trial, which everyone has the right to do you will be charged $30 to set a trial which will be added on to the bail amount of the citation...running a stop sign class B violation probably already $280ish. Now lets say you did run the stop sign but you would like to have the citation reflect that you were a pedestrian so that it doesn't raise your vehicle insurance, it looks like you would be charged the $30 just to see if you can have that done as a judge has to declare this.

http://www.ci.amity.or.us/MunicipalCourt/tabid/6106/language/en-US/Default.aspx

Gregg


> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:43:45 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> Nope. We don't want either the police or OBRA to be "big brother".
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: dacrizzow
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> To: remailer, OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
> Sent: May 23, 2011 06:36
>
> i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their job to it's absolute utmost description?
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
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Mike Murray

Nope. We don't want either the police or OBRA to be "big brother".

------Original Message------
From: dacrizzow
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
Sent: May 23, 2011 06:36

i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their job to it's absolute utmost description?
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Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

dacrizzow

i'm confused. are we (obra) supposed to support the idea of being the benevolent "big brother" yet we're angry at the police for doing their job to it's absolute utmost description?

Mike Murray

I have not read anyone until you describe this event as a mob breaking the law. What other people wrote was that they were not certain that ANYONE broke the law other than the police officer who detained and ticketed people he did not see commit a crime. Do you have information that presents a different picture?

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: eric aldinger
Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 22:12:36
To: Randy Dreiling
Cc: ; remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach

So there was a mob breaking the law and you are mad at the cops for
struggling to write tickets quickly enough? I still blame the event
coordinator for bad communication. They also messed up the route markers in
Newberg. I ended up being directed away from the first rest stop while
people starting in Newberg were accidentally directed to Portland. I was not
impressed.

On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Randy Dreiling wrote:

> I use to help drive SAG for RTB.
> They are in touch with the cities they go thru.
> Some towns (leaders) love RTB and other are just not bike friendly.
> IF everything is the same this is NOT the organizers fault this is just how
> a
> community decided to react.
> Take Care
>
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner - Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Promoter - Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mike Murray
> To: "remailer, OBRA"
> Sent: Sun, May 22, 2011 5:19:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> Makes one wonder if having RTB go through town is a benefit to the town or
> merely a PITA. If it is like some large attendance events it would
> represent
> revenue to the town and such onerous police behavior would be problematic
> for
> the town. If it is only something that clogs the roads with little or no
> warning
> and no one spends money while passing through it is likely that some people
> in
> the town will support the police action. This is something that organizers
> of
> events should keep in mind when planning.
>
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Darell C. Provencher"
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 16:29:37
> To: Arlo; ;
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Rick Johnson

So, since it obviously wasn't Eric, who won?

On 5/22/2011 10:12 PM, eric aldinger wrote:
> So there was a mob breaking the law and you are mad at the cops for
> struggling to write tickets quickly enough? I still blame the event
> coordinator for bad communication. They also messed up the route
> markers in Newberg. I ended up being directed away from the first rest
> stop while people starting in Newberg were accidentally directed to
> Portland. I was not impressed.
>
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Randy Dreiling > wrote:
>
> I use to help drive SAG for RTB.
> They are in touch with the cities they go thru.
> Some towns (leaders) love RTB and other are just not bike friendly.
> IF everything is the same this is NOT the organizers fault this is
> just how a
> community decided to react.
> Take Care
>
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner - Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
>
> Promoter - Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mike Murray >
> To: "remailer, OBRA" >
> Sent: Sun, May 22, 2011 5:19:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> Makes one wonder if having RTB go through town is a benefit to the
> town or
> merely a PITA. If it is like some large attendance events it would
> represent
> revenue to the town and such onerous police behavior would be
> problematic for
> the town. If it is only something that clogs the roads with little
> or no warning
> and no one spends money while passing through it is likely that
> some people in
> the town will support the police action. This is something that
> organizers of
> events should keep in mind when planning.
>
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Darell C. Provencher" >
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 16:29:37
> To: Arlo>;
> >;
> >
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Eric Aldinger
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

eric aldinger

So there was a mob breaking the law and you are mad at the cops for
struggling to write tickets quickly enough? I still blame the event
coordinator for bad communication. They also messed up the route markers in
Newberg. I ended up being directed away from the first rest stop while
people starting in Newberg were accidentally directed to Portland. I was not
impressed.

On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Randy Dreiling wrote:

> I use to help drive SAG for RTB.
> They are in touch with the cities they go thru.
> Some towns (leaders) love RTB and other are just not bike friendly.
> IF everything is the same this is NOT the organizers fault this is just how
> a
> community decided to react.
> Take Care
>
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
> Owner - Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
> Promoter - Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mike Murray
> To: "remailer, OBRA"
> Sent: Sun, May 22, 2011 5:19:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> Makes one wonder if having RTB go through town is a benefit to the town or
> merely a PITA. If it is like some large attendance events it would
> represent
> revenue to the town and such onerous police behavior would be problematic
> for
> the town. If it is only something that clogs the roads with little or no
> warning
> and no one spends money while passing through it is likely that some people
> in
> the town will support the police action. This is something that organizers
> of
> events should keep in mind when planning.
>
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Darell C. Provencher"
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 16:29:37
> To: Arlo; ;
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Randy Dreiling

I use to help drive SAG for RTB.
They are in touch with the cities they go thru.
Some towns (leaders) love RTB and other are just not bike friendly.
IF everything is the same this is NOT the organizers fault this is just how a
community decided to react.
Take Care

Randy Dreiling
Owner - Oregon Adventures www.oregon-adventures.com
Promoter - Mt Bike Oregon www.mtbikeoregon.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Murray
To: "remailer, OBRA"
Sent: Sun, May 22, 2011 5:19:43 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach

Makes one wonder if having RTB go through town is a benefit to the town or
merely a PITA. If it is like some large attendance events it would represent
revenue to the town and such onerous police behavior would be problematic for
the town. If it is only something that clogs the roads with little or no warning
and no one spends money while passing through it is likely that some people in
the town will support the police action. This is something that organizers of
events should keep in mind when planning.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Darell C. Provencher"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 16:29:37
To: Arlo; ;

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Arlo

Thanks for all the private replies. Specifically this statute is what the cop violated.

810.410 Arrest and citation. (1) A police officer may arrest or issue a citation to a person for a traffic crime at any place within or outside the jurisdictional authority of the governmental unit by which the police officer is authorized to act as provided by ORS 133.235 and 133.310.

(2) A police officer may issue a citation to a person for a traffic violation at any place within or outside the jurisdictional authority of the governmental unit by which the police officer is authorized to act:

(a) When the traffic violation is committed in the police officer’s presence; or

(b) When the police officer has probable cause to believe an offense has occurred based on a description of the vehicle or other information received from a police officer who observed the traffic violation.

After I got there the cop never once looked up from his silver clipboard or the few people in his immediate presence. He was a short guy and quite far from the corner. He was also surrounded by taller angry cyclists engaging him in discourse. The other cops had not yet arrived so they saw nothing and had no info to give him. He probably saw people in front of me run the sign, and maybe (big maybe) saw my group come around the corner. Everyone after that got detained illegally, threatened, etc... He had absolutely no cause to stop them. I don't know the circumstances of those actually ticketed. If he saw them individually, or another cop saw them individually run the sign, that's a different matter. Arlo

Mike Murray

Makes one wonder if having RTB go through town is a benefit to the town or merely a PITA. If it is like some large attendance events it would represent revenue to the town and such onerous police behavior would be problematic for the town. If it is only something that clogs the roads with little or no warning and no one spends money while passing through it is likely that some people in the town will support the police action. This is something that organizers of events should keep in mind when planning.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Darell C. Provencher"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 16:29:37
To: Arlo; ;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

T. Kenji Sugahara

Was the female officer OSP by any chance?

On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Arlo wrote:
> Greetings fellow riders.  There was a police operation in Amity during Reach The Beach where a cop was attempting to ticket hundreds of us for running a stop sign.  His methods and tactics varied throughout the day and the group I was in got away with a warning after a lengthy detention.  I did hear that some of you got tickets.
>
> This officer was telling entire groups of riders that they had to "stop and get out your ID's, you are going to get tickets."  As other riders arrived he was busy writing tickets and arguing.  He was not observing any of the arriving riders as they went through the intersection, yet they were also told to "stop" and prepare to be ticketed.  When people from these later arriving groups protested that they had in fact stopped he advised them "the camera would sort it out later."  When later arriving riders attempted to continue down the road, two other cops physically blocked them and told them to stop. These people were all illegally detained because the officer had no reason to believe they did anything wrong.  He was not watching the intersection at that point, and these stopped riders numbered in the hundreds and were detained for various periods of time.
>
> If he actually saw you run the sign he is entitled to stop you, write a ticket, etc...  But this was not the practice he was employing when I was present.
>
> In addition to this, a female officer way yelling at us that we were "not riding single file."  This was in neighborhood block where we were backed up for 40 yards shoulder to shoulder because of their ticketing operation.
>
> I am personally a bit outraged regarding this violation of my civil rights and would love to litigate Amity into bankruptcy.  At a minimum they should communicate better with groups that wish to bring tourists into their town.  I am curious as to how many of you got tickets or were detained for lengthy periods of time?  Arlo
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone:  503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Darell C. Provencher

Sounds like RTB organizers didn't coordinate with Amity Police Dept? Seems
like it could have been totally avoidable. Get thing they didn't go thru
North Plains...

On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 3:33 PM, wrote:

> This looks like a job for Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arlo
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 14:58:04
> To:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach
>
> Greetings fellow riders. There was a police operation in Amity during
> Reach The Beach where a cop was attempting to ticket hundreds of us for
> running a stop sign. His methods and tactics varied throughout the day and
> the group I was in got away with a warning after a lengthy detention. I did
> hear that some of you got tickets.
>
> This officer was telling entire groups of riders that they had to "stop and
> get out your ID's, you are going to get tickets." As other riders arrived
> he was busy writing tickets and arguing. He was not observing any of the
> arriving riders as they went through the intersection, yet they were also
> told to "stop" and prepare to be ticketed. When people from these later
> arriving groups protested that they had in fact stopped he advised them "the
> camera would sort it out later." When later arriving riders attempted to
> continue down the road, two other cops physically blocked them and told them
> to stop. These people were all illegally detained because the officer had no
> reason to believe they did anything wrong. He was not watching the
> intersection at that point, and these stopped riders numbered in the
> hundreds and were detained for various periods of time.
>
> If he actually saw you run the sign he is entitled to stop you, write a
> ticket, etc... But this was not the practice he was employing when I was
> present.
>
> In addition to this, a female officer way yelling at us that we were "not
> riding single file." This was in neighborhood block where we were backed up
> for 40 yards shoulder to shoulder because of their ticketing operation.
>
> I am personally a bit outraged regarding this violation of my civil rights
> and would love to litigate Amity into bankruptcy. At a minimum they should
> communicate better with groups that wish to bring tourists into their town.
> I am curious as to how many of you got tickets or were detained for lengthy
> periods of time? Arlo
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

joec@aracnet.com

This looks like a job for Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Arlo
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 14:58:04
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Amity Police Bully Reach The Beach

Greetings fellow riders. There was a police operation in Amity during Reach The Beach where a cop was attempting to ticket hundreds of us for running a stop sign. His methods and tactics varied throughout the day and the group I was in got away with a warning after a lengthy detention. I did hear that some of you got tickets.

This officer was telling entire groups of riders that they had to "stop and get out your ID's, you are going to get tickets." As other riders arrived he was busy writing tickets and arguing. He was not observing any of the arriving riders as they went through the intersection, yet they were also told to "stop" and prepare to be ticketed. When people from these later arriving groups protested that they had in fact stopped he advised them "the camera would sort it out later." When later arriving riders attempted to continue down the road, two other cops physically blocked them and told them to stop. These people were all illegally detained because the officer had no reason to believe they did anything wrong. He was not watching the intersection at that point, and these stopped riders numbered in the hundreds and were detained for various periods of time.

If he actually saw you run the sign he is entitled to stop you, write a ticket, etc... But this was not the practice he was employing when I was present.

In addition to this, a female officer way yelling at us that we were "not riding single file." This was in neighborhood block where we were backed up for 40 yards shoulder to shoulder because of their ticketing operation.

I am personally a bit outraged regarding this violation of my civil rights and would love to litigate Amity into bankruptcy. At a minimum they should communicate better with groups that wish to bring tourists into their town. I am curious as to how many of you got tickets or were detained for lengthy periods of time? Arlo
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Arlo

Greetings fellow riders. There was a police operation in Amity during Reach The Beach where a cop was attempting to ticket hundreds of us for running a stop sign. His methods and tactics varied throughout the day and the group I was in got away with a warning after a lengthy detention. I did hear that some of you got tickets.

This officer was telling entire groups of riders that they had to "stop and get out your ID's, you are going to get tickets." As other riders arrived he was busy writing tickets and arguing. He was not observing any of the arriving riders as they went through the intersection, yet they were also told to "stop" and prepare to be ticketed. When people from these later arriving groups protested that they had in fact stopped he advised them "the camera would sort it out later." When later arriving riders attempted to continue down the road, two other cops physically blocked them and told them to stop. These people were all illegally detained because the officer had no reason to believe they did anything wrong. He was not watching the intersection at that point, and these stopped riders numbered in the hundreds and were detained for various periods of time.

If he actually saw you run the sign he is entitled to stop you, write a ticket, etc... But this was not the practice he was employing when I was present.

In addition to this, a female officer way yelling at us that we were "not riding single file." This was in neighborhood block where we were backed up for 40 yards shoulder to shoulder because of their ticketing operation.

I am personally a bit outraged regarding this violation of my civil rights and would love to litigate Amity into bankruptcy. At a minimum they should communicate better with groups that wish to bring tourists into their town. I am curious as to how many of you got tickets or were detained for lengthy periods of time? Arlo