Dan H.

It seems to me that if you are good enough to make the cut, you should get

the ride. If they only have one team van, [limited funds] then only as

many people that will fit in the team van should get to go. Otherwise USA

Cycling should cut loose with some more funds [bigger van] so more people

can get a ride. I have a feeling they could find money in the couch or

something.





At 10:15 AM 1/9/03 -0800, you wrote:

 Dan,



Funding for sending multiple riders to worlds is pretty expensive. It

also likely uses up a bit of the 'pot of money' if USA Cycling is funding

large groups of elite riders to international events. It seems to me that

one of the biggest complaints against USA Cycling has been that they used

most of their money for elite riders, and did not use much for programs

that benefit the rank and file riders. This rider from Southern Oregon was

complaining that USA Cycling was being 'cheap' in not funding the trip to

worlds for Barry (at least that's how I read it). If there is only so much

money, you can't send everyone, all expenses paid, to international events

(benefiting elite riders) and also provide funding for programs that

benefit the rank and file riders (can't have your cake and eat it, too).

 

Mark







br-@politesociety.com

01/09/03 10:04 AM



To: ob-@topica.com @ INTERNET

cc: (bcc: Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R)

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] US cycling development



At 09:28 AM 1/9/03 -0800, you wrote:

 No offense Barry, but it seems to me that funding all the costs of

multiple riders to attend worlds is exactly what everyone was complaining

about. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 

Mark Schwyhart

I read that five times and I still don't know what it means. Could you try

to fill that out a bit more?

Dan H.

 





mg.h-@charter.net

01/08/03 08:31 PM



To: ob-@topica.com @ INTERNET

cc: (bcc: Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R)

Subject: [OBRA Chat] US cycling development



I spoke with Barry Wicks today. Being from Southern Oregon, I've never met

him or even laid eyes on him (Josh Conner tells me he's tall <g>). In the

last two days, I've learned several things. First, Barry seems like a nice

young man. Second, from conversations and reading the results as they

scroll across my e-mail in-basket week after week, he's a hammer. Last,

he's being let down, screwed, ignored, or what ever the term you feel is

appropriate by the powers that are in charge of "US cycling development."

 

Ryan Trebon, who Barry tells me is also a nice kid and who I've also never

met, was in the lead at Nationals when he double flatted. By the time he

got to the pits he'd dropped to seventh place. He finished third. He was

also "selected" for the Worlds team. He too will get NO funding from the

U.S. to race.

 

U.S. cycling is floundering. How can that be with Lance, Tyler, Levi and

the rest? It seems like who ever is in charge hand picks one or two, and

ignores the rest. We need to encourage as many as possible, not just a

chosen few. Until then its up to all of us to keep the dreams alive in

those, who in spite of the lack of national support, love to compete, do it

well, have a chance, are good kids and are being left behind by USA cycling.

 

Please step up and help.



Michael Hoyt



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Jim VanSchoonhoven

I would like to make a point or two concerning this topic. First off, what

has been said about Barry being over looked is very true!!! If Barry was

from California or Colorado, things would be much different for him. I

believe that Barry would be winning National Championships, if he was

getting support from the powers that be.



How things work at nationals---I was at a National Cyclo-cross Championship

a few years ago when Barry rode by, the announcer skipped over announcing

his name and the state where he was from. They had mentioned the riders

before him and after him, since I was standing right there I told them who

he was and where he was from, they told be they knew who he was and that he

was from Oregon. They skipped over him every time. Many little things like

this went on at that race. Including little things done to my son, who won

a medal. I was told, by some one high up in USA Cycling that when Oregon

starts treating us right we will start treating them (the Oregon riders)

right. They were actually taking their anger out on the few Oregon riders

that had spent money buying their expensive licenses.



The truth concerning USA Cycling's spending money on Elite athletes--- is

they are spending a lot of money on very few riders, and many times it is

not even on the best riders, but on the riders that know the right people,

are from the right areas or have the right sponsors.



This is one of the reasons that even most elite riders are upset with them.

For instance they are spending or at least they were spending a lot of money

on coaches, the problem is only a very few of the elite athletes rising

through the ranks have any access to these coaches. On the other hand the

very few athletes that do have access to these coaches already have coaches

and do not appreciate these outside coaches telling them what to do. But

the USA Cycling coaches love to put these elite athletes and their coaches

in place by forcing them to jump through certain hoops or be off the team.

So you have a huge conflict with the top few riders about this, and the guys

that could use the coaching and desire the coaching are left out in the

cold.



The actual amount of money to send a full team to the World Championships is

small compared to the amount of money that was being wasted on programs that

would have an impact on hardly anyone.     I believe the money spent on the

actual riders, such as sending them to the World Championships would have

been an important part of making a successful showing at the Worlds, and as

a National Organization that is part of what they should be doing.



My son has been on three World Teams, he is the top UCI ranked American and

USA cycling has never helped him out with any of the cost of going to the

World Championships. He has gone because of the thoughtfulness of OBRA

members, family, sponsors and donations from the public at large.



The things he has learned at these competitions has changed his life and his

riding level. The sad thing is, many of our best riders have not gone to

competitions at the Worlds, because they didn't have the money. They have

missed events that would have raised their level of competition. And when

these riders come back to the US, they could have helped raised many other

riders level of competition. It is a fact of sports in the US, the more

"hero's" a sport has the more people that are drawn into the sport. Of

course USA Cycling does seem to be the exception to that, even with more top

riders doing well, they are unable to take advantage of the situation and

expand membership.



On the other hand, they were taking in a lot of money from the whole

membership and wasting it on personal (jobs that were not needed) and

coaches maybe these things are changing, but so far I don't see many

changes, but I do hear some talking that at least sounds better.



Jim VanSchoonhoven



-----Original Message-----

From: mark.sc-@milliman.com [mailto:mark.sc-@milliman.com]

Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:28 AM

To: mg.h-@charter.net

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] US cycling development





I definitely do not want to defend the USCF (USA Cycling), but it seems to

me the biggest complaint against them was that they were using all their

money to fund elite athletes, instead of the rank and file riders. No

offense Barry, but it seems to me that funding all the costs of multiple

riders to attend worlds is exactly what everyone was complaining about. You

can't have your cake and eat it, too.



Mark Schwyhart







mg.h-@charter.net

01/08/03 08:31 PM



To: ob-@topica.com @ INTERNET

cc: (bcc: Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R)

Subject: [OBRA Chat] US cycling development



I spoke with Barry Wicks today. Being from Southern Oregon, I've never met

him or even laid eyes on him (Josh Conner tells me he's tall <g>). In the

last two days, I've learned several things. First, Barry seems like a nice

young man. Second, from conversations and reading the results as they scroll

across my e-mail in-basket week after week, he's a hammer. Last, he's being

let down, screwed, ignored, or what ever the term you feel is appropriate by

the powers that are in charge of "US cycling development."



Ryan Trebon, who Barry tells me is also a nice kid and who I've also never

met, was in the lead at Nationals when he double flatted. By the time he got

to the pits he'd dropped to seventh place. He finished third. He was also

"selected" for the Worlds team. He too will get NO funding from the U.S. to

race.



U.S. cycling is floundering. How can that be with Lance, Tyler, Levi and the

rest? It seems like who ever is in charge hand picks one or two, and ignores

the rest. We need to encourage as many as possible, not just a chosen few.

Until then its up to all of us to keep the dreams alive in those, who in

spite of the lack of national support, love to compete, do it well, have a

chance, are good kids and are being left behind by USA cycling.



Please step up and help.



Michael Hoyt



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com













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reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Unless indicated

to the contrary: it does not constitute professional advice or

opinions upon which reliance may be made by the addressee or any

other party, and it should be considered to be a work in progress.

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Dye, Todd/CVO

OK,



Here's a thought.



Let's take a look at what we're paying for our OBRA licenses compared to USCF. The 2003 OBRA Road/Track/Cyclocross license is $15.00. A USCF road license is going up to $50 for 2003. Don't even get me started about tacking another $25 for the NORBA license.



I haven't raced a NORBA/USCF event since '95, since I've been lucky enough to live in two different states with racing independent of them. I wouldn't trade OBRA for USCF for any amount of money.



If I'm not mistaken, the majority of the racers here in Oregon only hold an OBRA license, so we as a cycling community can't point too many fingers about how USA cycling chooses to spend THEIR money.



So here's what I propose. For those of us who would like to see progress towards cycling development especially for Oregon riders, let's put our money where are mouths are. I'll take the $35 I saved on license fees and give it to Barry so that he can go represent Oregon at cross worlds!



Who's with me?



Heck, I'll even hand deliver the cash on my commute home tonight. Barry, fire me an email to let me know when/where I can drop off an the $$.





Thanks for listening



Todd Dye









-----Original Message-----

From: mark.sc-@milliman.com [mailto:mark.sc-@milliman.com]

Sent: January 09, 2003 9:28 AM

To: mg.h-@charter.net

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] US cycling development





I definitely do not want to defend the USCF (USA Cycling), but it seems to me the biggest complaint against them was that they were using all their money to fund elite athletes, instead of the rank and file riders. No offense Barry, but it seems to me that funding all the costs of multiple riders to attend worlds is exactly what everyone was complaining about. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.



Mark Schwyhart







mg.h-@charter.net

01/08/03 08:31 PM



To: ob-@topica.com @ INTERNET

cc: (bcc: Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R)

Subject: [OBRA Chat] US cycling development



I spoke with Barry Wicks today. Being from Southern Oregon, I've never met him or even laid eyes on him (Josh Conner tells me he's tall <g>). In the last two days, I've learned several things. First, Barry seems like a nice young man. Second, from conversations and reading the results as they scroll across my e-mail in-basket week after week, he's a hammer. Last, he's being let down, screwed, ignored, or what ever the term you feel is appropriate by the powers that are in charge of "US cycling development."



Ryan Trebon, who Barry tells me is also a nice kid and who I've also never met, was in the lead at Nationals when he double flatted. By the time he got to the pits he'd dropped to seventh place. He finished third. He was also "selected" for the Worlds team. He too will get NO funding from the U.S. to race.



U.S. cycling is floundering. How can that be with Lance, Tyler, Levi and the rest? It seems like who ever is in charge hand picks one or two, and ignores the rest. We need to encourage as many as possible, not just a chosen few. Until then its up to all of us to keep the dreams alive in those, who in spite of the lack of national support, love to compete, do it well, have a chance, are good kids and are being left behind by USA cycling.



Please step up and help.



Michael Hoyt



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com













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**********************************************************************



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Dan H.

At 09:28 AM 1/9/03 -0800, you wrote:

 No offense Barry, but it seems to me that funding all the costs of

multiple riders to attend worlds is exactly what everyone was complaining

about. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

 

Mark Schwyhart

I read that five times and I still don't know what it means. Could you try

to fill that out a bit more?

Dan H.

 





mg.h-@charter.net

01/08/03 08:31 PM



To: ob-@topica.com @ INTERNET

cc: (bcc: Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R)

Subject: [OBRA Chat] US cycling development



I spoke with Barry Wicks today. Being from Southern Oregon, I've never met

him or even laid eyes on him (Josh Conner tells me he's tall <g>). In the

last two days, I've learned several things. First, Barry seems like a nice

young man. Second, from conversations and reading the results as they

scroll across my e-mail in-basket week after week, he's a hammer. Last,

he's being let down, screwed, ignored, or what ever the term you feel is

appropriate by the powers that are in charge of "US cycling development."

 

Ryan Trebon, who Barry tells me is also a nice kid and who I've also never

met, was in the lead at Nationals when he double flatted. By the time he

got to the pits he'd dropped to seventh place. He finished third. He was

also "selected" for the Worlds team. He too will get NO funding from the

U.S. to race.

 

U.S. cycling is floundering. How can that be with Lance, Tyler, Levi and

the rest? It seems like who ever is in charge hand picks one or two, and

ignores the rest. We need to encourage as many as possible, not just a

chosen few. Until then its up to all of us to keep the dreams alive in

those, who in spite of the lack of national support, love to compete, do it

well, have a chance, are good kids and are being left behind by USA cycling.

 

Please step up and help.



Michael Hoyt



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com













**********************************************************************

This communication is intended solely for the addressee and is

confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,

copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in

reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Unless indicated

to the contrary: it does not constitute professional advice or

opinions upon which reliance may be made by the addressee or any

other party, and it should be considered to be a work in progress.

**********************************************************************



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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mark.sc-@milliman.com

I definitely do not want to defend the USCF (USA Cycling), but it seems to me the biggest complaint against them was that they were using all their money to fund elite athletes, instead of the rank and file riders. No offense Barry, but it seems to me that funding all the costs of multiple riders to attend worlds is exactly what everyone was complaining about. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.



Mark Schwyhart







mg.h-@charter.net

01/08/03 08:31 PM



To: ob-@topica.com @ INTERNET

cc: (bcc: Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R)

Subject: [OBRA Chat] US cycling development



I spoke with Barry Wicks today. Being from Southern Oregon, I've never met him or even laid eyes on him (Josh Conner tells me he's tall <g>). In the last two days, I've learned several things. First, Barry seems like a nice young man. Second, from conversations and reading the results as they scroll across my e-mail in-basket week after week, he's a hammer. Last, he's being let down, screwed, ignored, or what ever the term you feel is appropriate by the powers that are in charge of "US cycling development."



Ryan Trebon, who Barry tells me is also a nice kid and who I've also never met, was in the lead at Nationals when he double flatted. By the time he got to the pits he'd dropped to seventh place. He finished third. He was also "selected" for the Worlds team. He too will get NO funding from the U.S. to race.



U.S. cycling is floundering. How can that be with Lance, Tyler, Levi and the rest? It seems like who ever is in charge hand picks one or two, and ignores the rest. We need to encourage as many as possible, not just a chosen few. Until then its up to all of us to keep the dreams alive in those, who in spite of the lack of national support, love to compete, do it well, have a chance, are good kids and are being left behind by USA cycling.



Please step up and help.



Michael Hoyt



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Michael Hoyt

I spoke with Barry Wicks today. Being from Southern Oregon, I've never

met him or even laid eyes on him (Josh Conner tells me he's tall <g>).

In the last two days, I've learned several things. First, Barry seems

like a nice young man. Second, from conversations and reading the

results as they scroll across my e-mail in-basket week after week, he's

a hammer. Last, he's being let down, screwed, ignored, or what ever the

term you feel is appropriate by the powers that are in charge of "US

cycling development."



Ryan Trebon, who Barry tells me is also a nice kid and who I've also

never met, was in the lead at Nationals when he double flatted. By the

time he got to the pits he'd dropped to seventh place. He finished

third. He was also "selected" for the Worlds team. He too will get NO

funding from the U.S. to race.



U.S. cycling is floundering. How can that be with Lance, Tyler, Levi and

the rest? It seems like who ever is in charge hand picks one or two, and

ignores the rest. We need to encourage as many as possible, not just a

chosen few. Until then its up to all of us to keep the dreams alive in

those, who in spite of the lack of national support, love to compete, do

it well, have a chance, are good kids and are being left behind by USA

cycling.



Please step up and help.



Michael Hoyt