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Whoa guys, the testosterone is getting a bit thick here... Masters
classes are age graded competition. While there's a certain logic to
Bill's argument, there's already a solution... Race the Senior open
championship race. Everybody's there and everybody's eligible. The
idea that older riders ought to be able to ride "up" a class ignores
the concept that the class is a class of age peers. The proposed
rule change is no more than a subterfuge for "shopping" for a
category that might be easier (yes bill, sometimes the younger guys
are easier, even sometimes for me). The solution is pretty obvious,
go to the next level, for age graded competition, that's regional or
national championships. As some of you have found out Master's Nats,
and Master's Worlds is a whole 'nother ball game. The competition
gets harder over 50.
Might I suggest another issue the "older" riders may have with the
suggested policy? If the self-styled "better" rider is allowed to opt
out of his age graded peerage, he devalues their race, and generally
devalues the riders in it as well.
Jerry
At 4:15 PM -0800 1/10/03, Cass, Bill wrote:
I usually don't get into this but,......................This is a rather
silly argument. Being in the younger age bracket, I have no problem with
someone from an older agegroup handing me my butt in a sling. If I am that
worried getting whooped I should train more. If someone older wants to race
in a younger, more competitive category....Have at it. If they win a
championship....More power to them. These are the silly rules that keep
groups from being more competitive and faster. If Chuck Jarabek or Hank
Pfiefle showed up and wanted to race against us again we could whine all the
way to second place. Someone who trains hard and wants to race hard
shouldn't be restricted by being too old to compete. I can think of a single
speed guru in Oregon that is still in the habit of taking on the Senior
II's. It is like telling a junior they cannot race with seniors because they
might beat them. Once you get beyond our Oregon shores riders like that need
that experience and competitive training. It is about raising the level of
competition not taking away a precious medal because someone older than you
is faster. Let them race.
Bill Cass
----------
From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn
Reply To: cmur-@obra.org
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 2:54 PM
To: obra
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] rule changes
Well yeah if you read it literally. But the governing body (you know the
evil empire) has in the past let older masters ride down an age group.
The
interpretation was that they had been that age and now were at a deficit
since they were older. We let some of the older guys ride down last year
at
the state road race and had some complaints, so we are trying to get the
feel from the other riders and make the rule clearer.
Is that any help?
Candi
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Voldengen [mailto:eri-@fusium.com]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 2:49 PM
To: cmur-@obra.org; obra
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] rule changes
Since the masters categories are defined by age,
that suggested rule change makes little sense to me...
Currently we have one suggested rule change to make if consistent for
masters to ride down an age group at the championships. So a 40-49 man
could ride in the 30-39 championships and place.
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
--
Jerald M. Powell, AICP
Community Planning
1445 SW Harrison Street
Portland, OR 97201
Tel: 503 222 7173
Fax: 503 222 6026
cell: 503 799 7823
email: jpow-@spiritone.com
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<div>Whoa guys, the testosterone is getting a bit thick here...
Masters classes are<b> age graded</b> competition. While there's
a certain logic to Bill's argument, there's already a solution...<b>
Race the Senior open championship race.</b> Everybody's there
and everybody's eligible. The idea that older riders ought to be
able to ride "up" a class ignores the concept that the class
is a class of age peers. The proposed rule change is no more
than a subterfuge for "shopping" for a category that might
be easier (yes bill, sometimes the younger guys are easier, even
sometimes for me). The solution is pretty obvious, go to the
next level, for age graded competition, that's regional or national
championships. As some of you have found out Master's Nats, and
Master's Worlds is a whole 'nother ball game. The competition
gets<i> harder</i> over 50.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Might I suggest another issue the "older" riders may
have with the suggested policy? If the self-styled "better"
rider is allowed to opt out of his age graded peerage, he devalues
their race, and generally devalues the riders in it as well.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Jerry</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>At 4:15 PM -0800 1/10/03, Cass, Bill wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I usually don't get into this
but,......................This is a rather<br>
silly argument. Being in the younger age bracket, I have no problem
with<br>
someone from an older agegroup handing me my butt in a sling. If I am
that<br>
worried getting whooped I should train more. If someone older wants to
race<br>
in a younger, more competitive category....Have at it. If they win
a<br>
championship....More power to them. These are the silly rules that
keep<br>
groups from being more competitive and faster. If Chuck Jarabek or
Hank<br>
Pfiefle showed up and wanted to race against us again we could whine
all the<br>
way to second place. Someone who trains hard and wants to race
hard<br>
shouldn't be restricted by being too old to compete. I can think of a
single<br>
speed guru in Oregon that is still in the habit of taking on the
Senior<br>
II's. It is like telling a junior they cannot race with seniors
because they<br>
might beat them. Once you get beyond our Oregon shores riders like
that need<br>
that experience and competitive training. It is about raising the
level of<br>
competition not taking away a precious medal because someone older
than you<br>
is faster. Let them race.<br>
<br>
Bill Cass<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
<br>
----------<br>
From:<x-tab> </x-tab>Candi Murray/Oregon
Bicycle Racing Assn<br>
Reply To:<x-tab>
</x-tab>cmur-@obra.org<br>
Sent:<x-tab> </x-tab>Friday, January 10, 2003 2:54 PM<br>
To:<x-tab> </x-tab>obra<br>
Subject:<x-tab> </x-tab>RE: [OBRA Chat] rule changes<br>
<br>
Well yeah if you read it literally. But the governing body
(you know the<br>
evil empire) has in the past let older masters ride down an age
group.<br>
The<br>
interpretation was that they had been that age and now were at a
deficit<br>
since they were older. We let some of the older guys ride
down last year</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>> at</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>> the state road race and had some
complaints, so we are trying to get the</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>> feel from the other riders and make
the rule clearer.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>> Is that any help?</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>> Candi</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>> -----Original Message-----<br>
From: Erik Voldengen [mailto:eri-@fusium.com]<br>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 2:49 PM<br>
To: cmur-@obra.org; obra<br>
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] rule changes<br>
<br>
<br>
Since the masters categories are defined by age,<br>
that suggested rule change makes little sense to me...<br>
<br>
<br>
Currently we have one suggested rule change to make if
consistent for<br>
masters to ride down an age group at the championships.
So a 40-49 man<br>
could ride in the 30-39 championships and place.<br>
<br>
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<br>
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com<br>
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<br>
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com<br>
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<br>
<br>
<div><br></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><b>-- <br>
Jerald M. Powell, AICP</b></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><i>Community Planning</i></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000">1445 SW Harrison Street</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000">Portland, OR 97201</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000">Tel: 503 222 7173</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000">Fax: 503 222 6026</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000">cell: 503 799 7823</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000">email: jpow-@spiritone.com</font></div>
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