OBRA: OBRA Chat: RE: Cyclist injured...

RE: Cyclist injured...

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Lennis Herburger

2003-01-14

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how long are we going to beat this dead horse? why don't we just go ride

our bikes....

-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:47 AM

To: pphar-@stoel.com; aka_s-@hotmail.com

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...

Actually, when a dog attacks a person (and this was an attack), the response

is not sorry for the accident, not my fault. The owner of the dog is

responsible for the damages caused by the dog. I am the owner of a dog, and

am responsible for all actions of the dog. The owner must ensure that the

dog is confined at all times, and City ordinances do not permit dogs to run

loose. If the dog gets out of the fence, then it must be put on a chain.

Bike riders, runners and pedestrians should not be at risk. Frankly, if my

collarbone was broken and I was laid up for six weeks, the owner of the dog

would be paying me a substantial sum, and it is clear that they can afford

it. Dog owners do not have right superior to the rest of society, and

people have a right to legally go about their business without being

attacked by a dog. The owner has the absolute obligation to ensure that it

is so, and is liable for any failure to do so.

 George Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: Hartigan, Patrick [ mailto:pphar-@stoel.com

<mailto:pphar-@stoel.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:03 AM

To: aka sco-@hotmail.com

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...

You've got the wrong end of the stick, dear, or at least the wrong owners.

See the emails for Beth's account. Not to mention that legal statutes and

remedies apply.

That's kind of obvious, isn't it?

P. Hartigan

-----Original Message-----

From: Scott & Hilary [ mailto:aka <mailto:aka sco-@hotmail.com>

sco-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 10:37 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...

Ivan - that bites, and I'm really sorry that you had to go down. Best of

luck for a speedy recovery. (Think of it this way, you would've had to race

against Magnus for "January Champion" anyway - when you come back, many of

us will be shot from beating each other's brains out in February and

March!).

About the dog and the dog owners -

First off, who hasn't been chased and/or come into contact with an animal of

some kind? We all share the road - and not just with other cars.

Secondly, the owners of the dog in question are my neighbors. They are nice

people who have a very nice home, horse ranch, and piece of property. They

also have a tremendous amount of fencing - look at it sometime. They

invested thousands of dollars into vinyl fencing along the road to keep

their horses and their dogs free from interfering with cars, bikes, and

pedestrians along the road. The one problem is that they have to get in and

out of their property, so there must be a hole in the fence somewhere. And

- having been chased by that dog many, may times myself - the dog sometimes

cannot help itself but sneak down to the driveway and run into the road.

My point is, sometimes things just happen. We have a word for it: Accident.

What point is it to throw blame around? Blame the fencemakers for not

sealing off every bit of the property. Blame the owner for not investing

even more money into keeping their home separate from the neighborhood

(maybe a wall enclosing the whole property would've been better?). Blame

the dog for having the instincts to run after something. Blame the city for

not building a barrier between road and home.

My family and I have dogs. And we have fencing. And we try to keep our

dogs off of Skyline for their safety and the safety of others. But if they

happen to get out, through a series of unfortunate occances, and knock a

rider off of their bike, are you going to reasonably say that me or my dog

ought to be put down?

Let's focus our energies elsewhere - like wishing Ivan a speedy recovery.

Scott Powell

Team Oregon

Skyline Neighborhood Association

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<TITLE>RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...</TITLE>

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<DIV>how

long are we going to beat this dead horse? why don't we just go ride our

bikes....</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Schreck, George

[mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 14,

2003 11:47 AM To: pphar-@stoel.com;

aka_s-@hotmail.com Cc: ob-@topica.com Subject: RE:

[OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured... </DIV>

Actually, when a dog attacks a person (and this was an

attack), the response is not sorry for the accident, not my fault. The

owner of the dog is responsible for the damages caused by the dog. I am the

owner of a dog, and am responsible for all actions of the dog. The owner

must ensure that the dog is confined at all times, and City ordinances do not

permit dogs to run loose. If the dog gets out of the fence, then it must

be put on a chain. Bike riders, runners and pedestrians should not be at

risk. Frankly, if my collarbone was broken and I was laid up for six

weeks, the owner of the dog would be paying me a substantial sum, and it is

clear that they can afford it. Dog owners do not have right superior to

the rest of society, and people have a right to legally go about their

business without being attacked by a dog. The owner has the absolute

obligation to ensure that it is so, and is liable for any failure to do

so.

 George

Schreck Phone: (503)

813-7211 Fax: (503)

813-7190 



-----Original Message----- From:

Hartigan, Patrick [<A

href="mailto:pphar-@stoel.com">mailto:pphar-@stoel.com</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:03 AM To: aka sco-@hotmail.com Cc:

ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist

injured... 

You've got the wrong end of the stick, dear, or at least the

wrong owners. See the emails for Beth's account. Not to mention that legal

statutes and remedies apply. 

That's kind of obvious, isn't it? 

P. Hartigan 

-----Original Message----- From: Scott

& Hilary [<A href="mailto:aka sco-@hotmail.com">mailto:aka

sco-@hotmail.com</A>] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003

10:37 AM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured... 

Ivan - that bites, and I'm really sorry that you had to go

down. Best of luck for a speedy recovery.

(Think of it this way, you would've had to race against Magnus for "January Champion" anyway - when you come back, many

of us will be shot from beating each other's brains

out in February and March!). 

About the dog and the dog owners - 

First off, who hasn't been chased and/or come into contact

with an animal of some kind? We all share the

road - and not just with other cars. 

Secondly, the owners of the dog in question are my

neighbors. They are nice people who have a very

nice home, horse ranch, and piece of property. They also have a tremendous amount of fencing - look at it sometime.

They invested thousands of dollars into vinyl fencing

along the road to keep their horses and their dogs

free from interfering with cars, bikes, and pedestrians along the road. The one problem is that they have to

get in and out of their property, so there must be a

hole in the fence somewhere. And - having been

chased by that dog many, may times myself - the dog sometimes cannot help itself but sneak down to the driveway and run into the

road. 

My point is, sometimes things just happen. We have a

word for it: Accident. 

What point is it to throw blame around? Blame the

fencemakers for not sealing off every bit of the

property. Blame the owner for not investing even

more money into keeping their home separate from the neighborhood

 (maybe a wall enclosing the whole property would've

been better?). Blame the dog for having the

instincts to run after something. Blame the city for not building a barrier between road and home. 

My family and I have dogs. And we have fencing.

And we try to keep our dogs off of Skyline for their

safety and the safety of others. But if they happen to get out, through a series of unfortunate occances, and knock

a rider off of their bike, are you going to reasonably

say that me or my dog ought to be put down?



Let's focus our energies elsewhere - like wishing Ivan a

speedy recovery. 

Scott Powell Team Oregon

 Skyline Neighborhood Association 

 The new MSN 8: smart spam protection

and 2 months FREE* <A

href="http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail"

target=" blank">http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail</A> 

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com 

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

 To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com 

<PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE>

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expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is

unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,

copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this

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