OBRA: OBRA Chat: RE: Cyclist injured...

RE: Cyclist injured...

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Doug Evans

2003-01-14

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Sounds good to me!

-----Original Message-----

From: Lennis Herburger [mailto:Lennis.H-@precash.com]

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:53 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...

how long are we going to beat this dead horse? why don't we just go ride our bikes....

-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:47 AM

To: pphar-@stoel.com; aka_s-@hotmail.com

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...

Actually, when a dog attacks a person (and this was an attack), the response is not sorry for the accident, not my fault. The owner of the dog is responsible for the damages caused by the dog. I am the owner of a dog, and am responsible for all actions of the dog. The owner must ensure that the dog is confined at all times, and City ordinances do not permit dogs to run loose. If the dog gets out of the fence, then it must be put on a chain. Bike riders, runners and pedestrians should not be at risk. Frankly, if my collarbone was broken and I was laid up for six weeks, the owner of the dog would be paying me a substantial sum, and it is clear that they can afford it. Dog owners do not have right superior to the rest of society, and people have a right to legally go about their business without being attacked by a dog. The owner has the absolute obligation to ensure that it is so, and is liable for any failure to do so.

 George Schreck

 Phone: (503) 813-7211

 Fax: (503) 813-7190

-----Original Message-----

From: Hartigan, Patrick [ mailto:pphar-@stoel.com]

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:03 AM

To: aka sco-@hotmail.com

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...

You've got the wrong end of the stick, dear, or at least the wrong owners. See the emails for Beth's account. Not to mention that legal statutes and remedies apply.

That's kind of obvious, isn't it?

P. Hartigan

-----Original Message-----

From: Scott & Hilary [ mailto:aka <mailto:aka sco-@hotmail.com> sco-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 10:37 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...

Ivan - that bites, and I'm really sorry that you had to go down. Best of

luck for a speedy recovery. (Think of it this way, you would've had to race

against Magnus for "January Champion" anyway - when you come back, many of

us will be shot from beating each other's brains out in February and

March!).

About the dog and the dog owners -

First off, who hasn't been chased and/or come into contact with an animal of

some kind? We all share the road - and not just with other cars.

Secondly, the owners of the dog in question are my neighbors. They are nice

people who have a very nice home, horse ranch, and piece of property. They

also have a tremendous amount of fencing - look at it sometime. They

invested thousands of dollars into vinyl fencing along the road to keep

their horses and their dogs free from interfering with cars, bikes, and

pedestrians along the road. The one problem is that they have to get in and

out of their property, so there must be a hole in the fence somewhere. And

- having been chased by that dog many, may times myself - the dog sometimes

cannot help itself but sneak down to the driveway and run into the road.

My point is, sometimes things just happen. We have a word for it: Accident.

What point is it to throw blame around? Blame the fencemakers for not

sealing off every bit of the property. Blame the owner for not investing

even more money into keeping their home separate from the neighborhood

(maybe a wall enclosing the whole property would've been better?). Blame

the dog for having the instincts to run after something. Blame the city for

not building a barrier between road and home.

My family and I have dogs. And we have fencing. And we try to keep our

dogs off of Skyline for their safety and the safety of others. But if they

happen to get out, through a series of unfortunate occances, and knock a

rider off of their bike, are you going to reasonably say that me or my dog

ought to be put down?

Let's focus our energies elsewhere - like wishing Ivan a speedy recovery.

Scott Powell

Team Oregon

Skyline Neighborhood Association

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<TITLE>RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured...</TITLE>

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<DIV>Sounds

good to me!</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE>

<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr>-----Original Message----- From: Lennis Herburger

[mailto:Lennis.H-@precash.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 14,

2003 11:53 AM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat]

Cyclist injured... </DIV>

<DIV>how

long are we going to beat this dead horse? why don't we just go ride our

bikes....</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

 <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr>-----Original Message----- From: Schreck, George

 [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 14,

 2003 11:47 AM To: pphar-@stoel.com;

 aka_s-@hotmail.com Cc: ob-@topica.com Subject: RE:

 [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured... </DIV>

 Actually, when a dog attacks a person (and this was an

 attack), the response is not sorry for the accident, not my fault. The

 owner of the dog is responsible for the damages caused by the dog. I am the

 owner of a dog, and am responsible for all actions of the dog. The

 owner must ensure that the dog is confined at all times, and City ordinances

 do not permit dogs to run loose. If the dog gets out of the fence,

 then it must be put on a chain. Bike riders, runners and pedestrians should

 not be at risk. Frankly, if my collarbone was broken and I was laid up

 for six weeks, the owner of the dog would be paying me a substantial sum,

 and it is clear that they can afford it. Dog owners do not have right

 superior to the rest of society, and people have a right to legally go about

 their business without being attacked by a dog. The owner has the

 absolute obligation to ensure that it is so, and is liable for any failure

 to do so.

 George

 Schreck Phone: (503)

 813-7211 Fax: (503)

 813-7190 

 -----Original Message----- From:

 Hartigan, Patrick [<A

 href="mailto:pphar-@stoel.com">mailto:pphar-@stoel.com</A>]

 Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 11:03 AM To: aka sco-@hotmail.com Cc:

 ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist

 injured... 

 You've got the wrong end of the stick, dear, or at least the

 wrong owners. See the emails for Beth's account. Not to mention that legal

 statutes and remedies apply. 

 That's kind of obvious, isn't it? 

 P. Hartigan 

 -----Original Message----- From:

 Scott & Hilary [<A href="mailto:aka sco-@hotmail.com">mailto:aka

 sco-@hotmail.com</A>] Sent: Tuesday, January 14,

 2003 10:37 AM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cyclist injured... 

 Ivan - that bites, and I'm really sorry that you had to go

 down. Best of luck for a speedy

 recovery. (Think of it this way, you would've had to race

 against Magnus for "January Champion" anyway - when

 you come back, many of us will be shot from beating

 each other's brains out in February and March!). 

 About the dog and the dog owners - 

 First off, who hasn't been chased and/or come into contact

 with an animal of some kind? We all share the

 road - and not just with other cars. 

 Secondly, the owners of the dog in question are my

 neighbors. They are nice people who have a

 very nice home, horse ranch, and piece of property. They

 also have a tremendous amount of fencing - look at

 it sometime. They invested thousands of

 dollars into vinyl fencing along the road to keep their horses and their dogs free from interfering with cars, bikes,

 and pedestrians along the road. The one

 problem is that they have to get in and out of their

 property, so there must be a hole in the fence somewhere. And

 - having been chased by that dog many, may times

 myself - the dog sometimes cannot help itself but

 sneak down to the driveway and run into the road. 

 My point is, sometimes things just happen. We have a

 word for it: Accident. 

 What point is it to throw blame around? Blame the

 fencemakers for not sealing off every bit of the

 property. Blame the owner for not investing even more money into keeping their home separate from the

 neighborhood (maybe a wall enclosing the whole

 property would've been better?). Blame the dog

 for having the instincts to run after something. Blame the city for

 not building a barrier between road and home.

 

 My family and I have dogs. And we have fencing.

 And we try to keep our dogs off of Skyline for their

 safety and the safety of others. But if they happen to get out, through a series of unfortunate occances, and

 knock a rider off of their bike, are you going to

 reasonably say that me or my dog ought to be put

 down? 

 Let's focus our energies elsewhere - like wishing Ivan a

 speedy recovery. 

 Scott Powell Team Oregon

 Skyline Neighborhood Association 

 The new MSN 8: smart spam protection

 and 2 months FREE* <A

 href="http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail"

 target=" blank">http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail</A> 

 To respond to the whole group send to

 ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send

 to ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

 obra-uns-@topica.com 

 To respond to the whole group send to

 ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send

 to ob-@teleport.com To unsubscribe send to

 obra-uns-@topica.com 

 <PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE>

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This

 email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended

 solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless

 expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is

 unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,

 copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

 prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this

 email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy

 all

 copies. ============================================================================== </BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE> 

PLEASE NOTE: This message, including any

attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information.

Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the

intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are

not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this

message and then delete it from your system. Thank

you. </BLOCKQUOTE>

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