Mike Murray
Jim Fischer wrote:
"OBRA doesn't have the broad financial base to sub-contract for the
development and maintenance of manuals, databasing and training as does USAC
"
This is true but then again OBRA would have that financial base if we
collected the fees that USAC does. If OBRA collected an amount equal to the
license fees, permit fees and insurance fees that USAC would collect under
their current system then we would have greater then $100,000 per year to
put towards operations. Do we want to raise OBRA fees to collect this? The
real question is whether USAC is willing to put money into this. To date
they have not been. This is the source of complaint with USAC; there is
little service returned for investment.
An additional concern is that raising fees decreases participation at all
levels. OBRA makes strong efforts to keep costs down to encourage people to
become racers, race organizers, officials, etc. Has there been a similar
effort by USAC to decrease your costs?
Currently OBRA easily has the financial resources to develop, publish and
maintain manuals. We are going to have officials and promoters clinics at
this year's annual meeting, as we did last year.
With regards to databasing; I am not sure what databasing you are referring
to. OBRA maintains a database of membership that has always been much more
current than anything USAC maintains. It is available to anyone, at any
time. You can get it from us by e-mail or on printed labels. It could be
available through the web tomorrow if that was something people wanted. We
database results of nearly all races for computation of the BAR, Oregon Cup
and Sobe series. What other databases did you have in mind and why should
they be expensive?
Officials are required at OBRA road events. I actually thought that they
were required for mountain bike events too. As a board member I am
distressed to find that there have been events without officials. I believe
that this issue has been left up to Jim Fischer as the OBRA mountain bike
representative. If the issue is providing training then OBRA can support
this financially.
As for the issue of Candi and I not being around; I don't really have any
plans to go anywhere. We have been doing this for 15 years or so. I don't
really see that much is going to change, absent unforeseen illness or
injury. I do think that people tend to overestimate our input. There are
other board members. There are other people that oversee the equipment.
Mailings could be done by anyone or contracted out. Database management
gets easier with newer technology and again could really be done by anyone.
Although Candi and I are around a lot, OBRA is not really just a Mike &
Candi show.
Once again, there are only 3 things USAC needs to do to make their program
viable here:
1. Pay for local administration and provide support for that program
2. Provide a reasonable connection between local racing and national racing
3. Spend sponsorship money on local racing programs.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: jim_fi-@hp.com [mailto:jim_fi-@hp.com]
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Subject: RE: NORBA-OBRA Meeting, 8/6/00 Minutes
Mike,
Thanks for the keen perspective. I agree there's little magic to the things
NORBA is doing, but if they succeed in setting up the training and manuals
for
promoters and officials, implementing a successful online accessible
database,
forwarding support towards the junior programs, and helping promoters
procure a
few consumables they need, then that's more than we've got now. OBRA could
also
set up such things. No doubt about it. And in either case, a local point
person (or several people) will be required to make things happen. I wonder
if
NORBA would pay for these services where OBRA would/could not? Maybe the
only
difference is my (possibly somewhat misplaced) perception that with all the
money NORBA gets, combined with the appearance that they really want to
help,
that they might be willing to help out a bit more (financially) to enable
the
locals who take charge anyway. OBRA doesn't have the broad financial base
to
sub-contract for the development and maintenance of manuals, databasing and
training as does USAC (another possible misperception). If the people doing
the
work volunteer, and OBRA simply covers material costs, then sure, OBRA could
do
it, too. But that doesn't seem realistic given any time frame short of a
few
years to set this sort of thing up.
Right now, the database thing, which is easily the most expensive, is the
least
important to me. We have access to a relatively good database that will
work
for promoter needs. The racers have never had access to this sort of thing
with
OBRA, so they don't know what they're really missing...yet. And I agree
that we
have what we need to implement some training. The trick is getting
promoters to
attend. They will not attend unless there is a financial incentive to do so
(or
a series requirement). The financial incentive with NORBA is the
requirement
placed on the need for an official for event permitting. This requirement
was
not in place with OBRA. Maybe next season? I thought it WAS a requirement
on
the road side with OBRA. Don't know for sure.
Anyway, I'm glad to get your feedback and agree we could do some of these
things
fairly easily if people are willing to donate their time.
Do you have an answer for the issue related to you/Candi no longer being
involved? For whatever reason, let's say you and Candi are not at the helm.
Does the USS OBRA run aground, or are there others ready to step up and
steer a
steady course?
Food for thought.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Murray [mailto:mmur-@teleport.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 9:34 AM
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Subject: RE: NORBA-OBRA Meeting, 8/6/00 Minutes
After reading through the items covered at the NORBA-OBRA Meeting I really
think that most of them fit into 2 categories:
1) Plans for the future that NORBA and the other USAC affiliates have talked
about for years and have yet to deliver
2) Things that could be done locally far cheaper and better.
Specifically;
-Promoter's guide - We could do this locally far better than NORBA ever
could. If it was written locally we could be more specific about dealing
with local scheduling issues, local land owners, series points, etc. All
that needs to happen is that the thing be written and then OBRA will publish
and distribute it.
-Officials and promoters clinics - Last year's annual meeting had some of
this. The planning is currently going on for what sessions will be held at
this year's meeting. We will be running programs to train new road
officials. Let's do some for off road officials too.
-Equipment -Obviously OBRA has a large stock of equipment. Getting
equipment that is specific to mountain bike racing is really only a matter
of letting us know what you want. Course marking tape is a slam dunk. We
can easily order this stuff by the mile, printed with our logo our anything
you like and then make it available to the race organizer.
-Online race registration - There are several companies that provide this
service without charge. ActiveUSA is one of these companies. It is ironic
that USAC is pushing this as a benefit that they provide since it is
something that they get for free from another company. If the membership is
interested, OBRA can enter into a relationship with one of the several
companies that provides online race registration. Alternatively we could
set up to do this through the OBRA web page ourselves.
-Results tracking- We are currently doing this locally with the BAR series,
the Oregon Cup series and the Sobe series. It is a big push, however, since
the data entry and calculation is done manually for the most part. We need
to create ways to make the calculation and posting of these results less
work intensive. We have the resources locally to do that we just need to
have a point person that pushes the program.
-Junior racing - We are all concerned about this issue. The fix is entirely
local. If there are to be things like school teams that will be done by
local people.
There are 3 things that NORBA, and USAC in general, could provide that OBRA
cannot:
1. Economic and organizational support for local administration of the
sport. There needs to be people in Oregon (not Colorado Spring or Spokane)
who are paid to represent USAC to support and improve the sport of bicycle
racing. The economic support for these positions needs to be realistic both
in terms of being reasonable compensation for the work done and returning a
significant proportion of the money that is collected from Oregon back to
Oregon.
2. Providing a pathway between local racing and national/international
racing for both racers and race organizers.
3. Use the sponsorship money that they obtain to support local programs.
So far USAC has been either unable or unwilling to do these things.
We have done this song and dance many times. Prior to the switch to OBRA
races Oregon was sending annually sending USAC an amount of money well into
six figures. Do the math yourself. The statistics for this year through
the end of July are:
OBRA road members 1035
USCF license ($35) $36225.00
OBRA Mtn bike members 1108
NORBA license ($35) $38780.00
# rider/days to 7/24/00 7610
USAC insurance at $2/rider day $15220.00
This is a total of $90,225.00 that would have been sent to USAC so far this
year. Add to this number the amount spent in permit fees, both permit
processing and the percentage of prize list. Project out to the amount that
would be sent after the remaining 80 or so days of racing.
What are they proposing that they will give back to us that will justify
this large amount of money spent? Imagine the negative impact of requiring
that all riders purchase NORBA/USCF licenses prior to racing.
I appreciate that NORBA and USCF and the individuals involved have been
expressing a desire to change. Unfortunately in this situation attitude is
not everything. We need to see concrete commitments, in hard terms and
dollar amounts.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: jim_fi-@hp.com [mailto:jim_fi-@hp.com]
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Subject: NORBA-OBRA Meeting, 8/6/00 Minutes
Greetings,
Below, I have pasted in the minutes from the meeting between OBRA and NORBA
this
past weekend up at Crystal Mountain, WA. I am cc'ing NORBA with my minutes.
I've also attached the Word file, as well.
Please understand that these minutes are more of a summary from my notes and
memory. Some of it is simply my opinion.
Regards, Jim Fischer 541-715-6880
OBRA-NORBA Meeting
Crystal Mountain, WA
8/6/00
Minutes
ATTENDEES:
Leslie Klein-NORBA Managing Director
Warren Conrad-USAC Membership Director
Gino Lisiecki-USAC Regional Rep/Promoter guru
Petr and Jen Kakes-Mt. Hood/Ski Bowl Promoters
Paul Thomasberg-Pro Racer/Race and tour promoter
Chris Sandmel-Santiam Pedalfest Promoter/High school racer
Jim Fischer-OBRA ATB Rep/Promoter/Racer (minutes)
TOPICS COVERED
? NORBA fees-Where they go, need to reduce them etc.
? Promoter Services-Promoter's guide, equipment needs, timing, training,
rebates
for timely database-friendly results submissions.
? Officials-NORBA's plans to provide training clinics and information
? Junior Racing-NORBA junior camps, reduction of junior fees up to age 18,
ideas
to build the dwindling junior competitive and non-competitive contingent.
? Out with the old, in with the new-NORBA's renewed interest in preserving
the
individuality of the sport with the help of us; the promoters, officials and
racers.
? Electronic timing and results submissions-It's almost here.
? Web based database interaction-Racer info available for racers to see and
update as needed. License duplications will go away with online data.
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Of all topics covered, the thing that was promising to me was the
feeling I got from Leslie and Warren regarding their desire to change. They
have lots of good ideas, as did many of the others at the meeting, to get
more
people on their bikes, racing and involved in regional and national mountain
bike activities. NORBA's focus is and always will be competitive mountain
bike
racing and the development of world champion mountain bike racers. They did
the
hard sell on the upcoming database systems that will allow better racer,
event
and results data management and online interaction. Apparently, license
fees
are going up next year, but juniors (<19) will still pay less than adults.
Junior racing programs are increasing in popularity, accessibility and are
very
effective at bringing juniors to the races. Officials training clinics and
materials are on track for presenting before next season. Promoters guides
and
training will also be available soon.
Services to the grass roots racers are few. Higher fees coupled with
few tangible benefits will make NORBA a difficult pill to swallow. Online
registration, license sales and results tracking will be bonuses...when they
happen. Help to promoters with planning, supplies acquisition, timing and
help
training officials are benefits to the racers (and promoters) but will not
be
readily apparent when they're writing a check to NORBA for $35+ license fee,
but
it should help create better events.
NORBA is definitely supporting IMBA and trail preservation efforts with
financial donations of $1 per rider and trail grants to member organizations
who
need to work on trails they use for NORBA races.
GORY DETAILS
1. NORBA Fees
Warren Conrad informed us that NORBA fees will be going up. To what amount,
he
did not know. The reason for the increase was not made clear. Obviously,
they
need more money, but is it due to increased costs, or to decreasing numbers
of
license holders? Maybe they're doing more for their membership? I don't
know.
I told them this will make it very difficult to justify a switch to NORBA
where
fees go up, and services to racers are not noticeably increased.
2. Promoter Services
NORBA will be offering regional official and promoter training and
materials.
This is very important for promoters to be aware of. Right now, I am the
only
"official" working mountain bike races, and many I have not attended. I
have
been working events in exchange for free race entry. This is a rare case.
Most
officials, which are generally required at all but the very small (~50
riders)
events, normally charge $.35/mile, $100/day and $25/day for food. This is
not
uncommon nor unsubstantiated. It costs quite a bit to get to an event in
time,
fuel, lodging and food. This is a cost you can expect to incur from either
OBRA
or NORBA in the future.
NORBA has also offered a promoter training packet and clinics. This
will be run locally and will allow the promoters to have a template or guide
to
help them in their race preparation activities.
There was also some mention of help in procuring certain items like
course marking tape (used on the entire length of the cross country NCS
races),
course arrows, etc. This was an idea thrown out at the meeting, so it's
definitely not a done deal.
Warren Conrad also mentioned a program where the promoters will received
rebates of $.25-$.75/rider upon timely submission of properly formatted race
results. This would come from the insurance surcharge fees paid on a per
rider
basis. Also not finalized, but fairly certain.
3. Officials
The lack of mountain bike officials on Oregon was addressed. Apparently
this is
a problem across the country. In response to this shortage, NORBA will be
conducting regional official training clinics. Gino Lisiecki will be
running
those clinics for our areas this fall. The goal is for NORBA to train at
least
10 officials trainers who will work regionally to train regional officials.
These regional officials are the ones who will work the local events. What
this
means to the promoters is a chance to become better acquainted with NORBA
(and
OBRA which uses the same rules) rules, meet other promoters and better
understand how to run an event. For most events, NORBA will require an
official. If you have to pay an official $100 per day, $.35/mile, $25/day
for
food etc., it can get expensive. It makes more sense to get trained and
offer
reciprocity to another nearby promoter so you work their event and they work
yours.
4. Junior Racing
Everybody agreed that without a broad base of upcoming junior riders,
cycling
will suffer. NORBA's mission is to create elite level racers from the
junior
ranks. OBRA's mission is more about facilitation competition at the grass
roots
level. Paul Thomasberg, however, pointed out that juniors must be nurtured
a
bit more at the start in order to entice them to the sport. Most juniors
will
not be driven to race and succeed unless they have a true love for the
sport.
Paul's vision related to simply getting the juniors on their bikes and
having
fun. If they want to race, that's great. However, pushing competition
instead
of "fun" won't work. He felt the best way to get kids into racing was to
get
them into riding and tours are the way he sees that happening. Local teams
organized in the junior and high schools oriented towards having fun and
facilitating competition will do more than the elite training camps touted
by
NORBA as really growing the junior ranks.
If it takes five years for an athlete to reach full potential, and most of
the
world champions are about 25, then it makes little sense to put the hurt on
juniors to run themselves hard until they're in they're late teens...not
juniors
at all. The focus on making junior champs at 16 is misplaced and will cause
the
junior crowd to fry before they ever get to excel.
This is an area where I feel NORBA could really do some good over OBRA
simply
because the infrastructure is there as is the budget. There are teams
around
the country working with high school kids to introduce mountain biking in
the
schools in line with soccer, baseball and traditional school sports. I feel
we
could go somewhere with that and a partnership with NORBA. This is only my
opinion.
5. Identity Preservation
Leslie Klein, NORBA's Managing Directory, voiced a realization that mountain
bikers are not road bikers and vice versa. Duh, but this realization is
counter
to everything USAC has been doing over the past few years. In an attempt to
streamline operations, paperwork and reduce costs, USAC grouped all cycling
into
one bucket diluting the individuality of the different disciplines. Now
they
want to give back to the various regimes the identities which they treasure.
I can only assume this means that if there is a deviation between how road
and
mountain bike racers want to do things, then it will be considered even if
the
deviation is merely for "feel" and not for function barring any ill effects
that
would significantly detract from the organization.
6. Electronic Timing and Databases
How many times have you been sitting on the floor in you living room two
nights
before an event going through entry forms you couldn't read and which were
incorrectly filled out? Me too. NORBA has been working with ActiveUSA, a
web-based sports marketing firm, to streamline and computerize the
submission of
everything from racer license applications to race results and local
(state-wide), regional or national points tracking/ranking. The system is
based
on NORBA's GEARS program, and promises some pretty amazing things.
Racers will be able to check their license info online. If a license is
lost,
they may print out a confirmation and take it to the race instead of
purchasing
another and hoping the check does not get cashed before the duplicate is
found.
Racers will be able to sort on various criteria (age, category, state, team
etc.) and compare their results with others. Promoters will be able to
upload
results in a standardized format to NORBA's database server. And e-mail and
snail mail can be automated and routed through NORBA instead of sending
money to
a mailing list maintenance company in California where half the fliers come
back
with bad addresses.
For those who care about points and who put on several events or events with
large attendance, this is a big help. For those who do not track points and
who
put on one small race per year, then it's not that significant to them.
CONCLUSION
I get the distinct feeling that NORBA really cares about the promoters and
wants
to know what it is they can do to get us to come back to them. NORBA has
some
things to offer promoters, but the value to the racers will be difficult for
the
racers to see when signing a check to NORBA for something that now costs
three
times what it did with OBRA.
One thing to keep in mind is that the OBRA model is not one, in my
humble opinion, that will work on a larger scale (nationally). Volunteers
like
Candi and Mike Murray, who love the sport and donate their time and money,
are
not the norm. If Mike or Candi (or any of the other key players) is no
longer
involved, stability and services will suffer. With NORBA comes stability at
the
cost of higher fees.
Many of the things NORBA offers, we already have, but we have them because
people are providing them for free. With NORBA, these same people may
certainly
be involved and may be reimbursed for their expenses. NORBA realizes that
each
state has a dedicated network of volunteers, officials and promoters who
make
bike racing what it is, and they do not want to change that. They simply
want
us to work with them to re-unite the national cycling community.
OBRA still offers a helluva lot for very little. Even with costs incurred
by
the promoters for officials (if OBRA was to require them at the events), I
feel
most promoters, and most certainly almost all racers, would opt to stay with
OBRA.