To me this is rationalizing. I understand the pressures you are speaking of...but it does not make it right to try to justify if.
I do not think others are saying these are bad people. But people do bad things sometimes. I do not hold a grudge against people who have doped if they come and stay clean. But I do have a measured enthusiasm for their success after using these drugs.
Medical students doing a brutal shift.... should not be doing drugs or the brutal shift in my opinion (management issues). That is peoples lives (not a race placement). That should not be some sort of sick right of passage for med. students. The patients should be the focus, not what some med. student can “handle”. Men pissing on bushes!!!
If a person develops lower testosterone as they age, that is probably normal. The truth is in our time, normal is not normal any longer. This is the magic of better life through chemistry.
The Statins I take are helping me with my condition even though there are side effects. I have had two extensions to my life because of medical expertise. That is about staying alive, not about maintaining my manliness!
I know there are real syndromes that require people to take testosterone, steroids etc., but Dr’s who prescribe the stuff just for convenience of the patient who might be feeling a little less energetic etc. Sorry. I feel in the end the Dr. is not being honest with the patient, but just appeasing him / her.
I go back to my original idea that people need to accept aging. Our bodies change.
We, as a society are quite impatient, want everything and want it now.
You can still race a bike, have good and not so good days and do it without drugs that enhance your performance.
ron
From: Sebastian Lopez-Otero
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:41 AM
To: Dan Grabski
Cc: Scott Kocher ; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more doping news
Once a cheater always a cheater? Mental defect? Character flaw? I suppose you could argue that in the case of a Lance Armstrong given the tactics he seemed to have used to sustain his cheating. But I have known some cyclists in my time that "cheated" and they have turned out to be quite decent people. A masters racer on Testosterone so that he can get top 10 in an OBRA race is one thing but a 20 something doing EPO so he can compete at an international level is another thing. Both, mind you are wrong and are cheating ... by any definition. (Unless the masters racer can prove he had low test and was just getting back to a normal level for his age). They are a different set of pressures. I would argue that they are different people and do not necessarily share the same "defect". Pick any career ... you are young and this is what you do, your boss tells you to take this or do something else. You are a medical student doing a brutal shift and competing with other medical students. You have access to a drug which will keep you sharp for longer, etc. etc. Pick any career and do the though experiment. Perhaps you have know some of these 'cheaters' in your own careers.
I suppose I am just suggesting that most of these cyclists are not criminals or evil.
I would also suggest that the riders in question would not have much of a problem dispatching an OBRA field ... sans dope.
s
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Dan Grabski wrote:
Unfortunately the auto racing analogy doesn't work quite as well as the original author imagines. It is typically "break as many rules as we can in one area of the car until the tech inspectors figure it out weeks later, then move on to something else."
Dan
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 31, 2013, at 9:20, craig austin wrote:
This statement is the problem with that opinion:
"Gladwell argued that we should think about cycling the same way we think about auto racing — where teams should be rewarded for using science and bending the rules to their breaking point to succeed."
Lance (and all the many others busted for doping) aren't "bending the rules to their breaking point," they're actually breaking them. The very high percentage of the pro peloton who have TUEs for asthma so they can take salbutamol? That's bending the rules, sometimes (just ask Allessandro Petacchi) to the breaking point.
And I'm with Scott K on the whole confession thing. Hard to believe how many cyclists were caught the one and only time they ever doped. I just don't think WADA is that good.
Craig
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 9:05 AM, John Gill wrote:
Not agreeing with this necessarily, but it is an interesting perspective on doping from someone who is known for thinking things through.
http://www.businessinsider.com/malcolm-gladwell-lance-armstrong-2012-10
He also has compared racers' doping to students drinking coffee to stay up and study longer...not stealing the test answers. They aren't cheating to make it easier...but to be able to do more hard things for longer.
Just A perspective that I found thought-provoking and wanted to share.
On Oct 31, 2013 8:34 AM, "Scott Kocher" wrote:
This is not directed at anyone in particular, but it is disheartening how many doping confessions don't happen until someone else puts forward damaging information and then they go like this:
"I'm really sorry I doped, and I haven't doped since [insert year that is so long ago that the statute of limitations has just expired]."
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