Ormerod, Gilbert

But I'm pretty sure I read that they share 87% of human DNA.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Storfa
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 7:10 AM
To: Harry Phinney; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Long-term effects of PEDs

But those are weight lifters. I'm not sure they qualify as "human" either.
________________________________
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:52:57 -0700
From: harry-phinney@comcast.net
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Long-term effects of PEDs
On 10/31/2013 09:11 PM, spencer wrote:

Re: Long-term effects of PEDs

Hey all, please please please dont misconstrue animal and mice studies to have the same effect on humans. How much DNA do we share, 60%?
Did you happen to check out the other paper referenced in the article? -

http://www.the-aps.org/mm/hp/Audiences/Public-Press/For-the-Press/releases/Archive/08/30.html

The title is "Anabolic Steroids Still Provide A Competitive Edge In Power Lifting Even Years After Doping Has Ended"

Harry Phinney

_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Ryan Storfa

But those are weight lifters. I'm not sure they qualify as "human" either.

Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:52:57 -0700
From: harry-phinney@comcast.net
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Long-term effects of PEDs

On 10/31/2013 09:11 PM, spencer wrote:

Re: Long-term effects of PEDs

Hey all, please please please dont misconstrue animal and mice studies to have the same effect on humans. How much DNA do we share, 60%?

Did you happen to check out the other paper referenced in the
article? -

http://www.the-aps.org/mm/hp/Audiences/Public-Press/For-the-Press/releases/Archive/08/30.html

The title is "Anabolic Steroids Still
Provide A Competitive Edge In Power Lifting Even Years After
Doping Has Ended"

Harry Phinney

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Harry Phinney

On 10/31/2013 09:11 PM, spencer wrote:
> Re: Long-term effects of PEDs
>
> Hey all, please please please dont misconstrue animal and mice studies to have the same effect on humans. How much DNA do we share, 60%?
Did you happen to check out the other paper referenced in the article? -

http://www.the-aps.org/mm/hp/Audiences/Public-Press/For-the-Press/releases/Archive/08/30.html

The title is "*Anabolic Steroids Still Provide A Competitive Edge In
Power Lifting Even Years After Doping Has Ended*"

Harry Phinney

spencer

Re: Long-term effects of PEDs

Hey all, please please please dont misconstrue animal and mice studies to have the same effect on humans. How much DNA do we share, 60%?

While interesting, and groundbreaking (the article is a good read), it is SO FAR from being applicable to humans it shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as cyclists.

Do it to chimps (97ish % same DNA as people) then maybe, but the hypertrophy effects of weight training are so vastly different between mice/rabbits and humans that the results dont beget human equivalence. In fact they barely instigate a human experimental level study, let alone a randomized clinically controlled trial.

Long story short, the science needs to be performed on humans to draw conclusions, as animal studys are often not applicable and not equal to our physiology.

Cheers.
Spencer

Eric Aldinger

Wait. ...there are long term benefits to doping? Sweet!
On Oct 30, 2013 9:40 PM, wrote:

> Good article.
> It seems to me that the physical impact of using various drugs to enhance
> performance, be they illegal and or prescription would have benefit for a
> good amount of time after the use. It is logical this would be the case.
> Even if a person used a mild drug like caffeine during a training ride and
> as a result managed to push his / her body farther, that would even have a
> short term positive impact on fitness.
> That is why my Dr. recommends that I drink a cup of coffee on the morning
> of my race day. Just kidding.
> Scientists do this stuff....they do the chemistry and I personally believe
> that there could be long term positive impact of these drugs regarding
> performance. I know that back in the 80s when I was on commonplace
> prednisone for about a week, I was amazed how much more easy it was for me
> to commute on my bike over Cornell Road from NE to Beaverton each day (with
> the old gen. light that ran off tire contact). I was a machine! And as I
> remember the, stamina increase lasted a few days after I was finished with
> the drug. I really do not care what a medical professional reading this
> might say regarding my experience..........I know what I did during that
> period. I was amped. Was not racing then, but it would have been "just
> what the Dr. ordered" for my results I bet. And if I was racing..........I
> should have not been because of how it boosted my strength.
> It is good when people admit they have done wrong and move on in the
> proper direction, but a lingering bonus of "using" will have an impact
> either positive, negative or both. It is called life.
> So whatever people are doing or were doing............get the facts out or
> don't. Do the right thing or don't. Then move on....either racing or
> doing something else in life. Beating others in contest when using a drug
> that enhances your performance is NOT beating them. Sometimes you just
> have to learn to let it go.
> That is why OBRA does not allow BEER hand-ups. They know it enhances
> performance until the crash sends one to the ER.
> Train hard so you can win, or just ride so you can race. Life is so full
> of choices. I also remember Ronald Reagan said "Everyone" could be a
> Millionaire. I guess everyone can be the race winner too. So we are all
> good right?
> Don't believe everything you think.
> ronnie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Joe Tysoe
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:29 PM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Long-term effects of PEDs
>
> Food for thought, Re does it matter if somebody doped in '03, '05 or
> say.. the early 90's.?
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/**science-environment-24730151
>
>
> There is a mounting body of evidence that seems to suggest PED use
> carries benefits after folks stop using.
>
> Perhaps the penalties for PED use are a bit outdated?
> ______________________________**_________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Josh LeBus

Wow!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2013, at 9:36 PM, wrote:
>
> Good article.
> It seems to me that the physical impact of using various drugs to enhance performance, be they illegal and or prescription would have benefit for a good amount of time after the use. It is logical this would be the case. Even if a person used a mild drug like caffeine during a training ride and as a result managed to push his / her body farther, that would even have a short term positive impact on fitness.
> That is why my Dr. recommends that I drink a cup of coffee on the morning of my race day. Just kidding.
> Scientists do this stuff....they do the chemistry and I personally believe that there could be long term positive impact of these drugs regarding performance. I know that back in the 80s when I was on commonplace prednisone for about a week, I was amazed how much more easy it was for me to commute on my bike over Cornell Road from NE to Beaverton each day (with the old gen. light that ran off tire contact). I was a machine! And as I remember the, stamina increase lasted a few days after I was finished with the drug. I really do not care what a medical professional reading this might say regarding my experience..........I know what I did during that period. I was amped. Was not racing then, but it would have been "just what the Dr. ordered" for my results I bet. And if I was racing..........I should have not been because of how it boosted my strength.
> It is good when people admit they have done wrong and move on in the proper direction, but a lingering bonus of "using" will have an impact either positive, negative or both. It is called life.
> So whatever people are doing or were doing............get the facts out or don't. Do the right thing or don't. Then move on....either racing or doing something else in life. Beating others in contest when using a drug that enhances your performance is NOT beating them. Sometimes you just have to learn to let it go.
> That is why OBRA does not allow BEER hand-ups. They know it enhances performance until the crash sends one to the ER.
> Train hard so you can win, or just ride so you can race. Life is so full of choices. I also remember Ronald Reagan said "Everyone" could be a Millionaire. I guess everyone can be the race winner too. So we are all good right?
> Don't believe everything you think.
> ronnie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Joe Tysoe
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:29 PM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Long-term effects of PEDs
>
> Food for thought, Re does it matter if somebody doped in '03, '05 or
> say.. the early 90's.?
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24730151
>
>
> There is a mounting body of evidence that seems to suggest PED use
> carries benefits after folks stop using.
>
> Perhaps the penalties for PED use are a bit outdated?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

rondot@spiritone.com

Good article.
It seems to me that the physical impact of using various drugs to enhance
performance, be they illegal and or prescription would have benefit for a
good amount of time after the use. It is logical this would be the case.
Even if a person used a mild drug like caffeine during a training ride and
as a result managed to push his / her body farther, that would even have a
short term positive impact on fitness.
That is why my Dr. recommends that I drink a cup of coffee on the morning of
my race day. Just kidding.
Scientists do this stuff....they do the chemistry and I personally believe
that there could be long term positive impact of these drugs regarding
performance. I know that back in the 80s when I was on commonplace
prednisone for about a week, I was amazed how much more easy it was for me
to commute on my bike over Cornell Road from NE to Beaverton each day (with
the old gen. light that ran off tire contact). I was a machine! And as I
remember the, stamina increase lasted a few days after I was finished with
the drug. I really do not care what a medical professional reading this
might say regarding my experience..........I know what I did during that
period. I was amped. Was not racing then, but it would have been "just
what the Dr. ordered" for my results I bet. And if I was racing..........I
should have not been because of how it boosted my strength.
It is good when people admit they have done wrong and move on in the proper
direction, but a lingering bonus of "using" will have an impact either
positive, negative or both. It is called life.
So whatever people are doing or were doing............get the facts out or
don't. Do the right thing or don't. Then move on....either racing or
doing something else in life. Beating others in contest when using a drug
that enhances your performance is NOT beating them. Sometimes you just have
to learn to let it go.
That is why OBRA does not allow BEER hand-ups. They know it enhances
performance until the crash sends one to the ER.
Train hard so you can win, or just ride so you can race. Life is so full of
choices. I also remember Ronald Reagan said "Everyone" could be a
Millionaire. I guess everyone can be the race winner too. So we are all
good right?
Don't believe everything you think.
ronnie

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Tysoe
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:29 PM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Long-term effects of PEDs

Food for thought, Re does it matter if somebody doped in '03, '05 or
say.. the early 90's.?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24730151

There is a mounting body of evidence that seems to suggest PED use
carries benefits after folks stop using.

Perhaps the penalties for PED use are a bit outdated?
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Joe Tysoe

Food for thought, Re does it matter if somebody doped in '03, '05 or
say.. the early 90's.?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24730151

There is a mounting body of evidence that seems to suggest PED use
carries benefits after folks stop using.

Perhaps the penalties for PED use are a bit outdated?