Obra doping

mohair

2013-11-02

The chatter on this subject has been swinging around wildly. The bottom line is that steroids have been abused in many sports. A big time power lifter wrote in Joe Weider's Muscle & Fitness magazine about his wake up call. He was involved in a minor fender bender and went into a "roid rage" and was throwing cops over cars. One of the poice officers put the muzzle of his shotgun into the lifter's face and gave him a simple choice: Live or die. It was then that the lifter realized that he had a serious problem and that he had better change his ways.

There is a large body of evidence that steroids mess with your head. The long-term "benefit" of steroids is that you will be very strong from all that muscle you've put on. There are many disadvantages as well. Cycling is an endurance sport and the PED of choice is EPO. Which is very expensive. Also very dangerous.

My personal opinion is that many bike racers at the local level use PED's like Dumbo's Magic Feather: Use these drugs and you can win. Whether they work or not at the amateur/weekend warrior level is moot. The point is that they are against the rules.

Can we lay this thread to rest?


Stewart Campbell

2013-11-01

Dan, you smart ass :)

________________________________
From: Dan Grabski
To: Stewart Campbell
Cc: "mike.murray@obra.org" ; "remailer, OBRA"
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

I hereby am coming clean to doping heavily and regularly
with Nutella. I did it mainly to beat you at Jack Frost TT, Stewart, and gain
the lucrative prize money on offer.
 
At this time I also want to implicate my dealer, Joshua
Creem of Cyclosportif, on regular Sundays during the fall I would use our code
word of "buying waffles" for loading up on my PED of choice.

Dan

On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:

So has there ever been suspicion of doping in OBRA.  I'm not trying to start a slam fest on anybody, I'm just curious.
>I mean that I've heard of a few OBRA members going pro in the 5 years that I've been racing, but I just can't imagine a cat 3 doping for a Mt.Tabor race just to win a $20 prize.
>
>
>-Stewart
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Mike Murray
>To: "remailer, OBRA"
>Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:29 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
>
>OBRA has the option to do drug controls in
the rules but it is impractical to do them. A single full WADA substance test can cost many hundreds of dollars and is not commercially available.  You can't just go to a lab and get a PES test. We have approached USADA about aligning with OBRA and testing but they have not been interested.  A more practical option would be limited testing. This would probably be limited to just testing for amphetamines. EPO or anabolic testing is far more costly and less available.
>
>Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "stevea.long"
>Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>Date:
Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:32:21
>To: durtsurf; OBRA Group
>Reply-To: "stevea.long"
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
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Erik Voldengen

2013-11-01

It's against the rules, and it's cheating. That's not a green light;
should be a red light.

- Erik

On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:49 PM, wrote:

> So the bottom line for obra is.............
> It is not worth testing (easy to understand the financial aspect regarding
> this stance). For racers so inclined that translates into a green light
> for "just trying" or "actively using" is he / she chooses. I am not saying
> it actually happens, but nothing in our organization will stop it if
> someone wants to do it. "Hey! Look at my lap times. They are 40 seconds
> faster than last year and the course was in virtually the same condition.
> This stuff really does work! Cool!"
>
> So if the present status does nothing to inhibit PEDs, it seems logical
> that Beer / etc. should not be banned. It is easy to observe that a rider
> who has consumed said beer honestly "believes" he/ she is a better rider
> (or lover depending on mental state) even though performance suffers.
> It just seems to be democratic to not test for or restrict PDDs
> (performance depleting drugs) as well as PEDs.
> This is America after all. We are free! We all have the right to do our
> best through the magic of chemistry.
> Have fun this weekend.
> :-)
> ron
> I
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Murray
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 8:55 AM
> Cc: remailer, OBRA
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
> The idea of random testing of performances out of range presumes a level
> of effectiveness that is greater than what doping infers. The benefit is
> far less than the variance in ability. Basically judging about doping based
> on performance is a flawed concept. The problem is that the current testing
> method has a selection bias which makes it far more likely that the people
> caught will be elite levels competitors. This gives the impression that
> doping is far more effective than it actually is. Fortunately USADA has
> started to recognize this as evidenced by the positives in grand fondo
> riders. Good on them. The more old, slow competitors that they catch the
> less sexy doping will be.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Brown
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 08:15:18
> To: Harry Phinney>
> Cc: obra remailer
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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rondot@spiritone.com

2013-11-01

So the bottom line for obra is.............
It is not worth testing (easy to understand the financial aspect regarding
this stance). For racers so inclined that translates into a green light for
"just trying" or "actively using" is he / she chooses. I am not saying it
actually happens, but nothing in our organization will stop it if someone
wants to do it. "Hey! Look at my lap times. They are 40 seconds faster
than last year and the course was in virtually the same condition. This
stuff really does work! Cool!"

So if the present status does nothing to inhibit PEDs, it seems logical
that Beer / etc. should not be banned. It is easy to observe that a rider
who has consumed said beer honestly "believes" he/ she is a better rider (or
lover depending on mental state) even though performance suffers.
It just seems to be democratic to not test for or restrict PDDs (performance
depleting drugs) as well as PEDs.
This is America after all. We are free! We all have the right to do our
best through the magic of chemistry.
Have fun this weekend.
:-)
ron
I

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 8:55 AM
Cc: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

The idea of random testing of performances out of range presumes a level of
effectiveness that is greater than what doping infers. The benefit is far
less than the variance in ability. Basically judging about doping based on
performance is a flawed concept. The problem is that the current testing
method has a selection bias which makes it far more likely that the people
caught will be elite levels competitors. This gives the impression that
doping is far more effective than it actually is. Fortunately USADA has
started to recognize this as evidenced by the positives in grand fondo
riders. Good on them. The more old, slow competitors that they catch the
less sexy doping will be.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Brown
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 08:15:18
To: Harry Phinney
Cc: obra remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Mike Murray

2013-11-01

The idea of random testing of performances out of range presumes a level of effectiveness that is greater than what doping infers. The benefit is far less than the variance in ability. Basically judging about doping based on performance is a flawed concept. The problem is that the current testing method has a selection bias which makes it far more likely that the people caught will be elite levels competitors. This gives the impression that doping is far more effective than it actually is. Fortunately USADA has started to recognize this as evidenced by the positives in grand fondo riders. Good on them. The more old, slow competitors that they catch the less sexy doping will be.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Brown
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 08:15:18
To: Harry Phinney
Cc: obra remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Mike Murray

2013-11-01

It is really more just substance abuse, like alcoholism, meth, etc.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Isaac King
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 08:08:24
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA doping

For starters; I agree that it's largely irrelevant if people in OBRA are doping. At the level most of us race - the difference is less significant than having a good day or bad day (I'm pretty sure I could sit on Farr's wheel with a Camelbak full of EPO and he would still break my legs.) Just as how I've been spanked by people on "inferior" equipment. As someone already mentioned - it's unlikely the PEDs are for monetary gain, more likely for ego.

Next - I'm surprised to see so many people on this board who share that sentiment... why get worked up about pros doping if you don't care whether or not the guy lining up to you is doped? I don't believe the majority of professional doping was exclusively for monetary gain either. It's pride, ego, and/or acceptance.
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Steve Brown

2013-11-01

if someone is doping to win $20 at a cat 3 Mt. Tabor race, (no disrespect to cat 3 or Mt. Tabor), then they probably need a whole lot more than just a little help to win bike races. A few random tests for performances that seem out of range are all we need.

Steve Brown
On Nov 1, 2013, at 8:04 AM, Harry Phinney wrote:

> On 10/31/2013 11:47 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:
>> So has there ever been suspicion of doping in OBRA. I'm not trying to start a slam fest on anybody, I'm just curious.
>> I mean that I've heard of a few OBRA members going pro in the 5 years that I've been racing, but I just can't imagine a cat 3 doping for a Mt.Tabor race just to win a $20 prize.
>>
>> -Stewart
> I've had suspicions about a (very) few people over the years, and there have been some cases like Chris Sheppard and Kenny Williams where it appears likely (but not certain) that they were "using" while competing in OBRA events. I don't think the motivation is related to the monetary value of a prize list. The big money sponsorships and salaries in the pro ranks enable (i.e. fund) doping but don't drive the desire to do it. There have been Masters and Cat 3 riders in other regions of the country who've been caught using EPO, which is quite expensive.
>
> Harry Phinney
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Isaac King

2013-11-01

For starters; I agree that it's largely irrelevant if people in OBRA are doping. At the level most of us race - the difference is less significant than having a good day or bad day (I'm pretty sure I could sit on Farr's wheel with a Camelbak full of EPO and he would still break my legs.) Just as how I've been spanked by people on "inferior" equipment. As someone already mentioned - it's unlikely the PEDs are for monetary gain, more likely for ego.

Next - I'm surprised to see so many people on this board who share that sentiment... why get worked up about pros doping if you don't care whether or not the guy lining up to you is doped? I don't believe the majority of professional doping was exclusively for monetary gain either. It's pride, ego, and/or acceptance.


Harry Phinney

2013-11-01

On 10/31/2013 11:47 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:
> So has there ever been suspicion of doping in OBRA. I'm not trying to
> start a slam fest on anybody, I'm just curious.
> I mean that I've heard of a few OBRA members going pro in the 5 years
> that I've been racing, but I just can't imagine a cat 3 doping for a
> Mt.Tabor race just to win a $20 prize.
>
> -Stewart
I've had suspicions about a (very) few people over the years, and there
have been some cases like Chris Sheppard and Kenny Williams where it
appears likely (but not certain) that they were "using" while competing
in OBRA events. I don't think the motivation is related to the monetary
value of a prize list. The big money sponsorships and salaries in the
pro ranks enable (i.e. fund) doping but don't drive the desire to do it.
There have been Masters and Cat 3 riders in other regions of the country
who've been caught using EPO, which is quite expensive.

Harry Phinney


Dan Grabski

2013-11-01

I hereby am coming clean to doping heavily and regularly with Nutella. I
did it mainly to beat you at Jack Frost TT, Stewart, and gain the lucrative
prize money on offer.

At this time I also want to implicate my dealer, Joshua Creem of
Cyclosportif, on regular Sundays during the fall I would use our code word
of "buying waffles" for loading up on my PED of choice.

Dan

On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:

> So has there ever been suspicion of doping in OBRA. I'm not trying to
> start a slam fest on anybody, I'm just curious.
> I mean that I've heard of a few OBRA members going pro in the 5 years that
> I've been racing, but I just can't imagine a cat 3 doping for a Mt.Tabor
> race just to win a $20 prize.
>
> -Stewart
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Mike Murray
> *To:* "remailer, OBRA"
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:29 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
> OBRA has the option to do drug controls in the rules but it is impractical
> to do them. A single full WADA substance test can cost many hundreds of
> dollars and is not commercially available. You can't just go to a lab and
> get a PES test. We have approached USADA about aligning with OBRA and
> testing but they have not been interested. A more practical option would
> be limited testing. This would probably be limited to just testing for
> amphetamines. EPO or anabolic testing is far more costly and less
> available.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "stevea.long"
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:32:21
> To: durtsurf; OBRA Group
> Reply-To: "stevea.long"
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Mike Murray

2013-11-01

Steroid inhalers are not prohibited. Actually even systemic corticosteroids can be used. OBRA rules allow for a significantly less strict approval process compared to USADA. It would be useful to actually read those rules.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Seth May
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 04:22:28
To: Stewart Campbell
Cc: mike.murray@obra.org; remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

Where there are real people there is doping. My guess is most of it is
unintended or related to non-competition medical issues. How many racers
out there are taking a banned steroid inhaler for asthma related issues?
How many masters are on testosterone treatments? How often have any of us
started a doctor issued prescription and without checking to see if it's on
the banned list, yet still headed out on the hunt for mid field in our
cross category.

Doping in OBRA is so much a non-issue for me. The evidence for it is hard
to obtain and prohibitively expensive. Even if and when it is happening, my
guess is there is rarely a net gain by riders in terms or results. As a
community, I think there are far better areas to invest our time and energy
(like building our junior ranks). Let the pros worry about it, where the
payoff, at least potentially, could be worth it.

Thanks
Seth

On Thursday, October 31, 2013, Stewart Campbell wrote:

> So has there ever been suspicion of doping in OBRA. I'm not trying to
> start a slam fest on anybody, I'm just curious.
> I mean that I've heard of a few OBRA members going pro in the 5 years that
> I've been racing, but I just can't imagine a cat 3 doping for a Mt.Tabor
> race just to win a $20 prize.
>
> -Stewart
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Mike Murray 'mike.murray@obra.org');>>
> *To:* "remailer, OBRA" 'obra@list.obra.org');>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:29 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
> OBRA has the option to do drug controls in the rules but it is impractical
> to do them. A single full WADA substance test can cost many hundreds of
> dollars and is not commercially available. You can't just go to a lab and
> get a PES test. We have approached USADA about aligning with OBRA and
> testing but they have not been interested. A more practical option would
> be limited testing. This would probably be limited to just testing for
> amphetamines. EPO or anabolic testing is far more costly and less
> available.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "stevea.long" 'stevea.long@comcast.net');>>
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org 'obra-bounces@list.obra.org');>
> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:32:21
> To: durtsurf 'durtsurf@gmail.com');>>; OBRA Group
> >
> Reply-To: "stevea.long" 'cvml', 'stevea.long@comcast.net');>>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org 'obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org');>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org 'obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org');>
>
>
>


Seth May

2013-11-01

Where there are real people there is doping. My guess is most of it is
unintended or related to non-competition medical issues. How many racers
out there are taking a banned steroid inhaler for asthma related issues?
How many masters are on testosterone treatments? How often have any of us
started a doctor issued prescription and without checking to see if it's on
the banned list, yet still headed out on the hunt for mid field in our
cross category.

Doping in OBRA is so much a non-issue for me. The evidence for it is hard
to obtain and prohibitively expensive. Even if and when it is happening, my
guess is there is rarely a net gain by riders in terms or results. As a
community, I think there are far better areas to invest our time and energy
(like building our junior ranks). Let the pros worry about it, where the
payoff, at least potentially, could be worth it.

Thanks
Seth

On Thursday, October 31, 2013, Stewart Campbell wrote:

> So has there ever been suspicion of doping in OBRA. I'm not trying to
> start a slam fest on anybody, I'm just curious.
> I mean that I've heard of a few OBRA members going pro in the 5 years that
> I've been racing, but I just can't imagine a cat 3 doping for a Mt.Tabor
> race just to win a $20 prize.
>
> -Stewart
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Mike Murray 'mike.murray@obra.org');>>
> *To:* "remailer, OBRA" 'obra@list.obra.org');>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:29 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
> OBRA has the option to do drug controls in the rules but it is impractical
> to do them. A single full WADA substance test can cost many hundreds of
> dollars and is not commercially available. You can't just go to a lab and
> get a PES test. We have approached USADA about aligning with OBRA and
> testing but they have not been interested. A more practical option would
> be limited testing. This would probably be limited to just testing for
> amphetamines. EPO or anabolic testing is far more costly and less
> available.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "stevea.long" 'stevea.long@comcast.net');>>
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org 'obra-bounces@list.obra.org');>
> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:32:21
> To: durtsurf 'durtsurf@gmail.com');>>; OBRA Group
> >
> Reply-To: "stevea.long" 'cvml', 'stevea.long@comcast.net');>>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org 'obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org');>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org 'obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org');>
>
>
>


Stewart Campbell

2013-11-01

So has there ever been suspicion of doping in OBRA.  I'm not trying to start a slam fest on anybody, I'm just curious.
I mean that I've heard of a few OBRA members going pro in the 5 years that I've been racing, but I just can't imagine a cat 3 doping for a Mt.Tabor race just to win a $20 prize.

-Stewart

________________________________
From: Mike Murray
To: "remailer, OBRA"
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

OBRA has the option to do drug controls in the rules but it is impractical to do them. A single full WADA substance test can cost many hundreds of dollars and is not commercially available.  You can't just go to a lab and get a PES test. We have approached USADA about aligning with OBRA and testing but they have not been interested.  A more practical option would be limited testing. This would probably be limited to just testing for amphetamines. EPO or anabolic testing is far more costly and less available.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "stevea.long"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:32:21
To: durtsurf; OBRA Group
Reply-To: "stevea.long"
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

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Mike Murray

2013-11-01

I think it is extremely likely that there is doping in the Masters and amateur groups but there is likely a poor correlation between doping and placing. There are people taking substances and finishing mid pack. It is unlikely that there are many that are placing well because they are doping.
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: J Bravard
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 17:09:08
To: obra@list.obra.org
Reply-To: jb24817@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

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Mike Murray

2013-11-01

OBRA has the option to do drug controls in the rules but it is impractical to do them. A single full WADA substance test can cost many hundreds of dollars and is not commercially available. You can't just go to a lab and get a PES test. We have approached USADA about aligning with OBRA and testing but they have not been interested. A more practical option would be limited testing. This would probably be limited to just testing for amphetamines. EPO or anabolic testing is far more costly and less available.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "stevea.long"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:32:21
To: durtsurf; OBRA Group
Reply-To: "stevea.long"
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

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Matthew Case

2013-11-01

Absolutely Candi. Can't be seen giving OBRA legitimacy. Plus, all my
experiences in doping have just ended up with me putting on weight
anyhow. Mmmmmm, Cheetos.

On 10/31/13, Candi Murray wrote:
> We approached WADA to see if they wanted a relationship. They did not return
> our contact.
>
> Candi
>
> On Oct 31, 2013, at 4:32 PM, "stevea.long" wrote:
>
>> No this is not exactly right. Prizes are put out there by the promotors
>> and any doping control would be an OBRA thing. If I'm not mistaken, OBRA
>> choses to not go down that path due to costs...
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S�4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: durtsurf
>> Date: 10/31/2013 3:19 PM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: OBRA Group
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>>
>>
>> I know this one will be controversial but it 's just a thought I wanted to
>> hear others opinions on. I know Evan will have a strong opinion on this,
>> nothing against you Evan, I respect you a lot.
>> It seems kind of weird to me that we race in an organization that has cash
>> prizes for winners but no doping controls. I would think you would either
>> have both prizes and controls, or no prizes and no controls. If I had to
>> chose between the two I would choose no prizes/controls too keep the entry
>> fees down. If you take away the cash, the incentive too dope is more
>> difficult to see, and the losers would only lose their pride, not any
>> concrete rewards.
>> Is that right?
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Eric Aldinger

2013-11-01

Wait... .there are no doping controls in OBRA? Sweet!
On Oct 31, 2013 5:09 PM, "Candi Murray" wrote:

> We approached WADA to see if they wanted a relationship. They did not
> return our contact.
>
> Candi
>
> On Oct 31, 2013, at 4:32 PM, "stevea.long"
> wrote:
>
> No this is not exactly right. Prizes are put out there by the promotors
> and any doping control would be an OBRA thing. If I'm not mistaken, OBRA
> choses to not go down that path due to costs...
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: durtsurf
> Date: 10/31/2013 3:19 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: OBRA Group
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
>
> I know this one will be controversial but it 's just a thought I wanted to
> hear others opinions on. I know Evan will have a strong opinion on this,
> nothing against you Evan, I respect you a lot.
> It seems kind of weird to me that we race in an organization that has cash
> prizes for winners but no doping controls. I would think you would either
> have both prizes and controls, or no prizes and no controls. If I had to
> chose between the two I would choose no prizes/controls too keep the entry
> fees down. If you take away the cash, the incentive too dope is more
> difficult to see, and the losers would only lose their pride, not any
> concrete rewards.
> Is that right?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Candi Murray

2013-11-01

We approached WADA to see if they wanted a relationship. They did not return our contact.

Candi

On Oct 31, 2013, at 4:32 PM, "stevea.long" wrote:

> No this is not exactly right. Prizes are put out there by the promotors and any doping control would be an OBRA thing. If I'm not mistaken, OBRA choses to not go down that path due to costs...
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: durtsurf
> Date: 10/31/2013 3:19 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: OBRA Group
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping
>
>
> I know this one will be controversial but it 's just a thought I wanted to hear others opinions on. I know Evan will have a strong opinion on this, nothing against you Evan, I respect you a lot.
> It seems kind of weird to me that we race in an organization that has cash prizes for winners but no doping controls. I would think you would either have both prizes and controls, or no prizes and no controls. If I had to chose between the two I would choose no prizes/controls too keep the entry fees down. If you take away the cash, the incentive too dope is more difficult to see, and the losers would only lose their pride, not any concrete rewards.
> Is that right?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


J Bravard

2013-11-01

I'm betting that at the Masters level and amateur (with no professional
aspirations) level doping has little to do with prize lists and much to do
with egos, and I don't think it's worth wasting our energy over it.
As amateurs and hobbyists, which is what over 99% of us are, shouldn't we
be focused more on racing ourselves and having the
best/smartest/cleanest/whatever race that *we* can do? What's better:
winning against a weaker field, or placing 30th in a strong field when
you've actually raced better than you did against the weaker field? What if
that strong field has some folks breaking the rules? Does that make your
effort any better or worse?

On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 3:53 PM, dacrizzow wrote:

> who cares who dopes? unless you're within a few spots of the "doper" then
> it really doesn't affect you. win, lose, DNF, DFL....who cares? life goes
> on and only the "cheater" really loses in the end. (if you really believe
> that). if your life (or living) really depends on results from a bike race
> then you have bigger issues. now....can't we go back to complaining about
> sandbagging?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


marky mark

2013-10-31

Sandbagging... Don't get me started

T Shreve

> On Oct 31, 2013, at 3:53 PM, "dacrizzow" wrote:
>
> who cares who dopes? unless you're within a few spots of the "doper" then it really doesn't affect you. win, lose, DNF, DFL....who cares? life goes on and only the "cheater" really loses in the end. (if you really believe that). if your life (or living) really depends on results from a bike race then you have bigger issues. now....can't we go back to complaining about sandbagging?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


stevea.long

2013-10-31

No this is not exactly right. Prizes are put out there by the promotors and any doping control would be an OBRA thing. If I'm not mistaken, OBRA choses to not go down that path due to costs...

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: durtsurf
Date: 10/31/2013 3:19 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: OBRA Group
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Obra doping

I know this one will be controversial but it 's just a thought I wanted to hear others opinions on. I know Evan will have a strong opinion on this, nothing against you Evan, I respect you a lot.
It seems kind of weird to me that we race in an organization that has cash prizes for winners but no doping controls. I would think you would either have both prizes and controls, or no prizes and no controls. If I had to chose between the two I would choose no prizes/controls too keep the entry fees down. If you take away the cash, the incentive too dope is more difficult to see, and the losers would only lose their pride, not any concrete rewards.
Is that right?


dacrizzow

2013-10-31

who cares who dopes? unless you're within a few spots of the "doper" then it really doesn't affect you. win, lose, DNF, DFL....who cares? life goes on and only the "cheater" really loses in the end. (if you really believe that). if your life (or living) really depends on results from a bike race then you have bigger issues. now....can't we go back to complaining about sandbagging?


Sebastian Lopez-Otero

2013-10-31

The cash prizes would not compensate for cost of dope. Which cannot be said for the pro tour.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 31, 2013, at 3:19 PM, durtsurf wrote:
>
> I know this one will be controversial but it 's just a thought I wanted to hear others opinions on. I know Evan will have a strong opinion on this, nothing against you Evan, I respect you a lot.
> It seems kind of weird to me that we race in an organization that has cash prizes for winners but no doping controls. I would think you would either have both prizes and controls, or no prizes and no controls. If I had to chose between the two I would choose no prizes/controls too keep the entry fees down. If you take away the cash, the incentive too dope is more difficult to see, and the losers would only lose their pride, not any concrete rewards.
> Is that right?
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


durtsurf

2013-10-31

I know this one will be controversial but it 's just a thought I wanted to
hear others opinions on. I know Evan will have a strong opinion on this,
nothing against you Evan, I respect you a lot.
It seems kind of weird to me that we race in an organization that has cash
prizes for winners but no doping controls. I would think you would either
have both prizes and controls, or no prizes and no controls. If I had to
chose between the two I would choose no prizes/controls too keep the entry
fees down. If you take away the cash, the incentive too dope is more
difficult to see, and the losers would only lose their pride, not any
concrete rewards.
Is that right?