Legal Performance Enhancement

Rick Johnson

2013-11-12

Wow. Mr. Manning, who started this after all? The thread bears your name.

The only honorable thing for you to do is apologize and hope the better
part of this community forgives your transgression.
Or you could persist in revealing your lack of character. Either way, I
think you should take this petty bickering off list.

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

On 11/12/2013 10:13 AM, J. Michael Manning wrote:
> First, I would like to make it clear that my posting was never
> intended to be an attack on Jeff Tedder or Hammer Nutrition. But when
> attacked , I will snap back. I will not be bullied by anyone. Jeff, if
> you can't take the heat, don't start the fight!
> Mike Manning
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Jeff Tedder
> >
> wrote:
>
> Manning, as to your cute little Panty quote, my first gut reaction
> is to just knock the S..t out of you, that might make me feel
> better but then Candi, Mike and Kenji would not be happy with me
> and I can't have that as I respect them and what we all strive for
> in OBRA, or at least most of us.....A great cycling and bike
> racing community with friendly people that just want to race their
> bikes and train hard.......So I will take the HIGH ROAD and let
> your own actions bury you, which from the feedback I have seen and
> the 25 or so direct emails I got, yep you pretty much did the job
> buddy......It's nice to know that people really do support all the
> hard work some us put into trying to build respectful teams and
> businesses in the cycling world, its not easy and alot of hard
> work, plus keeping quality people around on our teams is
> key.......Maybe you should work at that instead of all your
> propaganda BS you put on OBRA chat.....Just want to thank all of
> you that emailed me direct and gave me your thoughts.....onward
> and upward as they say.....
> HAMMER ON!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Jeff Tedder
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* J. Michael Manning
> *To:* Jeff Tedder
> *Cc:* Josh LeBus ; OBRA
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 11, 2013 8:32 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>
> Don't get your panties in a wad, Jeff! Thanks for pointing out
> the "old news". It still doesn't change anything. The point
> here is not that I am slamming Hammer... they are just one of
> hundreds of reputable companies that run the risk of
> unintentional contamination. NSF Certified for Sport sets the
> new standard for quality and purity. USA Cycling has held the
> stance for quite awhile that coaches should discourage their
> athletes from supplementing just for that reason. Of course,
> OBRA racers never have to worry about drug testing as long as
> they stick to OBRA racing. On the other hand, if you choose to
> maintain a standard that says "I race clean", Klean Athlete is
> the ticket.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Jeff Tedder
> > wrote:
>
> Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look
> at the date on the article.....and nothing was proven at
> all if I remember correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other
> mates of hers used Endurolytes out of the SAME bottle and
> none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch hunt
> for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this
> was easy to blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way
> you want to market some new product by trashing a
> great company that goes OUT of there way to teach people
> about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as
> far as education and they have some of the greatest
> endurance athletes as far as Ultra people this country has
> ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner, Steve Born
> etc....They are and always well be a stand up
> company......and in NO-WAY would ever purposely
> contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The probably 10's
> of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using
> this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles
> pop up contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe
> reconsider trying to sell your product versus trashing
> someones elses to get people to change.....Pretty
> LAME!!!!!!!!!!!
> Jeff Tedder
> Solid Core Training
> Portland PACE
> Hammer Velo
> 503-473-7650
> .
> *From:* Josh LeBus
>
> *To:* J. Michael Manning
> *Cc:* OBRA
> *Sent:* Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>
> Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.
> Ready.. Set., go!!
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning"
> >
> wrote:
>
>> With all the current news related to the USA Cycling
>> RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer
>> Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the
>> perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen
>> performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with
>> the suit, check it out here:
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1
>>
>> Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition
>> with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to
>> be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these
>> locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your
>> attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming
>> seminar series on performance enhancing supplements
>> that are totally legal. They do exist!
>> J.Michael Manning
>>
>> --
>> Fit4ever Wellness
>> www.ft4evr.com
>> 503-330-5531
>>
>> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> CycleOne Coaching
> www.cycleone.net
> 503-330-5531
>
> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
>
>
>
>
> --
> CycleOne Coaching
> www.cycleone.net
> 503-330-5531
>
> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jeff Tedder

2013-11-12

Then don't name Hammer in an email or post articles that you know nothing about, you did not even know when this happened or anything about it.....you thought it was current, obvioulsy you went looking for bad press and just found that link.....kinda backfired on you I would say.....and then tell me not to get my panties in wad?????...classy dude.......
no heat in my kitchen, I have all the support I need from people that matter....I sure as hell don't need yours....
So not gunna get sucked into your little game.....you have fun selling your Klean products.....
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: J. Michael Manning
To: Jeff Tedder
Cc: Josh LeBus ; OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

First, I would like to make it clear that my posting was never intended to be an attack on Jeff Tedder or Hammer Nutrition. But when attacked , I will snap back. I will not be bullied by anyone. Jeff, if you can't take the heat, don't start the fight!

Mike Manning

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Jeff Tedder wrote:

Manning, as to your cute little Panty quote, my first gut reaction is to just knock the S..t out of you, that might make me feel better but then Candi, Mike and Kenji would not be happy with me and I can't have that as I respect them and what we all strive for in OBRA, or at least most of us.....A great cycling and bike racing community with friendly people that just want to race their bikes and train hard.......So I will take the HIGH ROAD and let your own actions bury you, which from the feedback I have seen and the 25 or so direct emails I got, yep you pretty much did the job buddy......It's nice to know that people really do support all the hard work some us put into trying to build respectful teams and businesses in the cycling world, its not easy and alot of hard work, plus keeping quality people around on our teams is key.......Maybe you should work at that instead of all your propaganda BS you put on OBRA chat.....Just want to thank all of you that emailed me direct and gave me your thoughts.....onward and upward as they say.....

HAMMER ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Tedder

----- Original Message -----
From: J. Michael Manning
To: Jeff Tedder
Cc: Josh LeBus ; OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Don't get your panties in a wad, Jeff! Thanks for pointing out the "old news". It still doesn't change anything. The point here is not that I am slamming Hammer... they are just one of hundreds of reputable companies that run the risk of unintentional contamination. NSF Certified for Sport sets the new standard for quality and purity. USA Cycling has held the stance for quite awhile that coaches should discourage their athletes from supplementing just for that reason. Of course, OBRA racers never have to worry about drug testing as long as they stick to OBRA racing. On the other hand, if you choose to maintain a standard that says "I race clean", Klean Athlete is the ticket.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Jeff Tedder wrote:

Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look at the date on the article.....and nothing was proven at all if I remember correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other mates of hers used Endurolytes out of the SAME bottle and none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch hunt for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this was easy to blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way you want to market some new product by trashing a great company that goes OUT of there way to teach people about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as far as education and they have some of the greatest endurance athletes as far as Ultra people this country has ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner, Steve Born etc....They are and always well be a stand up company......and in NO-WAY would ever purposely contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The probably 10's of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles pop up contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe reconsider trying to sell your product versus trashing someones elses to get people to change.....Pretty LAME!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Tedder
Solid Core Training
Portland PACE
Hammer Velo
503-473-7650
.

From: Josh LeBus
To: J. Michael Manning
Cc: OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.

Ready.. Set., go!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning" wrote:

With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1

Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
J.Michael Manning

--
Fit4ever Wellness

www.ft4evr.com
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
CycleOne Coaching
www.cycleone.net
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"

--
CycleOne Coaching
www.cycleone.net
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"


J. Michael Manning

2013-11-12

First, I would like to make it clear that my posting was never intended to
be an attack on Jeff Tedder or Hammer Nutrition. But when attacked , I will
snap back. I will not be bullied by anyone. Jeff, if you can't take the
heat, don't start the fight!
Mike Manning

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Jeff Tedder
wrote:

> Manning, as to your cute little Panty quote, my first gut reaction is to
> just knock the S..t out of you, that might make me feel better but then
> Candi, Mike and Kenji would not be happy with me and I can't have that as I
> respect them and what we all strive for in OBRA, or at least most of
> us.....A great cycling and bike racing community with friendly people that
> just want to race their bikes and train hard.......So I will take the HIGH
> ROAD and let your own actions bury you, which from the feedback I have seen
> and the 25 or so direct emails I got, yep you pretty much did the job
> buddy......It's nice to know that people really do support all the hard
> work some us put into trying to build respectful teams and businesses in
> the cycling world, its not easy and alot of hard work, plus keeping quality
> people around on our teams is key.......Maybe you should work at that
> instead of all your propaganda BS you put on OBRA chat.....Just want to
> thank all of you that emailed me direct and gave me your
> thoughts.....onward and upward as they say.....
>
> HAMMER ON!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Jeff Tedder
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* J. Michael Manning
> *To:* Jeff Tedder
> *Cc:* Josh LeBus ; OBRA
> *Sent:* Monday, November 11, 2013 8:32 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>
> Don't get your panties in a wad, Jeff! Thanks for pointing out the "old
> news". It still doesn't change anything. The point here is not that I am
> slamming Hammer... they are just one of hundreds of reputable companies
> that run the risk of unintentional contamination. NSF Certified for Sport
> sets the new standard for quality and purity. USA Cycling has held the
> stance for quite awhile that coaches should discourage their athletes from
> supplementing just for that reason. Of course, OBRA racers never have to
> worry about drug testing as long as they stick to OBRA racing. On the other
> hand, if you choose to maintain a standard that says "I race clean", Klean
> Athlete is the ticket.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Jeff Tedder <
> sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>> Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look at the date
>> on the article.....and nothing was proven at all if I remember
>> correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other mates of hers used Endurolytes out of
>> the SAME bottle and none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch
>> hunt for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this was easy to
>> blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way you want to market some new
>> product by trashing a great company that goes OUT of there way to teach
>> people about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as far as
>> education and they have some of the greatest endurance athletes as far as
>> Ultra people this country has ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner,
>> Steve Born etc....They are and always well be a stand up company......and
>> in NO-WAY would ever purposely contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The
>> probably 10's of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using
>> this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles pop up
>> contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe reconsider trying to sell
>> your product versus trashing someones elses to get people to
>> change.....Pretty LAME!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Jeff Tedder
>> Solid Core Training
>> Portland PACE
>> Hammer Velo
>> 503-473-7650
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh LeBus
>>
>> *To:* J. Michael Manning
>> *Cc:* OBRA
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>>
>> Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.
>>
>> Ready.. Set., go!!
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning"
>> wrote:
>>
>> With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program
>> and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products,
>> now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance
>> enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1
>>
>> Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified
>> for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can
>> purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention,
>> keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance
>> enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
>> J.Michael Manning
>>
>> --
>> Fit4ever Wellness
>> www.ft4evr.com
>> 503-330-5531
>>
>> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> CycleOne Coaching
> www.cycleone.net
> 503-330-5531
>
> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
>
>

--
CycleOne Coaching
www.cycleone.net
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"


Mike Murray

2013-11-12

I feel I have now reached my goal.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Thom Schoenborn
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 06:28:03
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

That's it. I'm re-implementing my doping-and-Lance email filter. Ugh.

On Tuesday, November 12, 2013, Mike Murray wrote:

> I don't like the implication that OBRA does not have prohibitions against
> doping. There is the potential for testing at OBRA events. USADA could
> consider it. OBRA would bear the cost. The estimate was $2,500 to test 3
> riders at a single race.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "J. Michael Manning" >
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 20:32:35
> To: Jeff Tedder>
> Cc: OBRA>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Jeff Tedder

2013-11-12

Manning, as to your cute little Panty quote, my first gut reaction is to just knock the S..t out of you, that might make me feel better but then Candi, Mike and Kenji would not be happy with me and I can't have that as I respect them and what we all strive for in OBRA, or at least most of us.....A great cycling and bike racing community with friendly people that just want to race their bikes and train hard.......So I will take the HIGH ROAD and let your own actions bury you, which from the feedback I have seen and the 25 or so direct emails I got, yep you pretty much did the job buddy......It's nice to know that people really do support all the hard work some us put into trying to build respectful teams and businesses in the cycling world, its not easy and alot of hard work, plus keeping quality people around on our teams is key.......Maybe you should work at that instead of all your propaganda BS you put on OBRA chat.....Just want to thank all of you that emailed me direct and gave me your thoughts.....onward and upward as they say.....

HAMMER ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Tedder

----- Original Message -----
From: J. Michael Manning
To: Jeff Tedder
Cc: Josh LeBus ; OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Don't get your panties in a wad, Jeff! Thanks for pointing out the "old news". It still doesn't change anything. The point here is not that I am slamming Hammer... they are just one of hundreds of reputable companies that run the risk of unintentional contamination. NSF Certified for Sport sets the new standard for quality and purity. USA Cycling has held the stance for quite awhile that coaches should discourage their athletes from supplementing just for that reason. Of course, OBRA racers never have to worry about drug testing as long as they stick to OBRA racing. On the other hand, if you choose to maintain a standard that says "I race clean", Klean Athlete is the ticket.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Jeff Tedder wrote:

Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look at the date on the article.....and nothing was proven at all if I remember correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other mates of hers used Endurolytes out of the SAME bottle and none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch hunt for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this was easy to blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way you want to market some new product by trashing a great company that goes OUT of there way to teach people about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as far as education and they have some of the greatest endurance athletes as far as Ultra people this country has ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner, Steve Born etc....They are and always well be a stand up company......and in NO-WAY would ever purposely contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The probably 10's of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles pop up contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe reconsider trying to sell your product versus trashing someones elses to get people to change.....Pretty LAME!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Tedder
Solid Core Training
Portland PACE
Hammer Velo
503-473-7650
.

From: Josh LeBus
To: J. Michael Manning
Cc: OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.

Ready.. Set., go!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning" wrote:

With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1

Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
J.Michael Manning

--
Fit4ever Wellness

www.ft4evr.com
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
CycleOne Coaching
www.cycleone.net
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"


Eric Aldinger

2013-11-12

Wait. . .Hammer products have EPO and Clem in them?! And OBRA sanctioned
races are sponsored by this awsome product?!!!! Hmmmnm......
On Nov 12, 2013 5:56 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:

> I don't like the implication that OBRA does not have prohibitions against
> doping. There is the potential for testing at OBRA events. USADA could
> consider it. OBRA would bear the cost. The estimate was $2,500 to test 3
> riders at a single race.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "J. Michael Manning"
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 20:32:35
> To: Jeff Tedder
> Cc: OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Thom Schoenborn

2013-11-12

That's it. I'm re-implementing my doping-and-Lance email filter. Ugh.

On Tuesday, November 12, 2013, Mike Murray wrote:

> I don't like the implication that OBRA does not have prohibitions against
> doping. There is the potential for testing at OBRA events. USADA could
> consider it. OBRA would bear the cost. The estimate was $2,500 to test 3
> riders at a single race.
>
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "J. Michael Manning" >
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 20:32:35
> To: Jeff Tedder>
> Cc: OBRA>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Mike Murray

2013-11-12

I don't like the implication that OBRA does not have prohibitions against doping. There is the potential for testing at OBRA events. USADA could consider it. OBRA would bear the cost. The estimate was $2,500 to test 3 riders at a single race.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "J. Michael Manning"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 20:32:35
To: Jeff Tedder
Cc: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Josh LeBus

2013-11-12

My initial point exactly...
If you want to market your product.. Market it. Stand behind it because of what it is, not because of what other products "fail" to do, or as dated quotes say "contaminate".
Gross generalizations don't go over very well in the obra community. Clearly we genuinely care for those that care and contribute to this whole consistently, like Jeff, who's contributed more than his share to the bike community.
It's not a fare "shot across the bow" if ur only referencing two racers from 5 years ago who got "bunk" tabs that were likely augmented by their personal coaches.

Let's be genuine above all else!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:32 PM, "J. Michael Manning" wrote:
>
> Don't get your panties in a wad, Jeff! Thanks for pointing out the "old news". It still doesn't change anything. The point here is not that I am slamming Hammer... they are just one of hundreds of reputable companies that run the risk of unintentional contamination. NSF Certified for Sport sets the new standard for quality and purity. USA Cycling has held the stance for quite awhile that coaches should discourage their athletes from supplementing just for that reason. Of course, OBRA racers never have to worry about drug testing as long as they stick to OBRA racing. On the other hand, if you choose to maintain a standard that says "I race clean", Klean Athlete is the ticket.
>
>
>> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Jeff Tedder wrote:
>> Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look at the date on the article.....and nothing was proven at all if I remember correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other mates of hers used Endurolytes out of the SAME bottle and none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch hunt for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this was easy to blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way you want to market some new product by trashing a great company that goes OUT of there way to teach people about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as far as education and they have some of the greatest endurance athletes as far as Ultra people this country has ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner, Steve Born etc....They are and always well be a stand up company......and in NO-WAY would ever purposely contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The probably 10's of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles pop up contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe reconsider trying to sell your product versus trashing someones elses to get people to change.....Pretty LAME!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Jeff Tedder
>> Solid Core Training
>> Portland PACE
>> Hammer Velo
>> 503-473-7650
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Josh LeBus
>> To: J. Michael Manning
>> Cc: OBRA
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>>
>> Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.
>>
>> Ready.. Set., go!!
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning" wrote:
>>>
>>> With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1
>>>
>>> Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
>>> J.Michael Manning
>>>
>>> --
>>> Fit4ever Wellness
>>> www.ft4evr.com
>>> 503-330-5531
>>>
>>> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> CycleOne Coaching
> www.cycleone.net
> 503-330-5531
>
> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"


J. Michael Manning

2013-11-12

Don't get your panties in a wad, Jeff! Thanks for pointing out the "old
news". It still doesn't change anything. The point here is not that I am
slamming Hammer... they are just one of hundreds of reputable companies
that run the risk of unintentional contamination. NSF Certified for Sport
sets the new standard for quality and purity. USA Cycling has held the
stance for quite awhile that coaches should discourage their athletes from
supplementing just for that reason. Of course, OBRA racers never have to
worry about drug testing as long as they stick to OBRA racing. On the other
hand, if you choose to maintain a standard that says "I race clean", Klean
Athlete is the ticket.

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Jeff Tedder
wrote:

> Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look at the date on
> the article.....and nothing was proven at all if I remember
> correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other mates of hers used Endurolytes out of
> the SAME bottle and none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch
> hunt for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this was easy to
> blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way you want to market some new
> product by trashing a great company that goes OUT of there way to teach
> people about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as far as
> education and they have some of the greatest endurance athletes as far as
> Ultra people this country has ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner,
> Steve Born etc....They are and always well be a stand up company......and
> in NO-WAY would ever purposely contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The
> probably 10's of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using
> this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles pop up
> contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe reconsider trying to sell your
> product versus trashing someones elses to get people to change.....Pretty
> LAME!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Jeff Tedder
> Solid Core Training
> Portland PACE
> Hammer Velo
> 503-473-7650
> .
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh LeBus
>
> *To:* J. Michael Manning
> *Cc:* OBRA
> *Sent:* Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement
>
> Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.
>
> Ready.. Set., go!!
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning"
> wrote:
>
> With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program
> and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products,
> now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance
> enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1
>
> Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified
> for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can
> purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention,
> keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance
> enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
> J.Michael Manning
>
> --
> Fit4ever Wellness
> www.ft4evr.com
> 503-330-5531
>
> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
CycleOne Coaching
www.cycleone.net
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"


Jeff Tedder

2013-11-12

Always count on you for support Mr. Strasser, thank you... : ) and your drugs are on the way...haha

----- Original Message -----
From: rondot@spiritone.com
To: Jeff Tedder ; Josh LeBus ; J. Michael Manning
Cc: OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Here. Here. Jeff.
Hammer products very good and clean products. A well respected company for good reason.
ron

From: Jeff Tedder
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:59 PM
To: Josh LeBus ; J. Michael Manning
Cc: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look at the date on the article.....and nothing was proven at all if I remember correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other mates of hers used Endurolytes out of the SAME bottle and none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch hunt for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this was easy to blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way you want to market some new product by trashing a great company that goes OUT of there way to teach people about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as far as education and they have some of the greatest endurance athletes as far as Ultra people this country has ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner, Steve Born etc....They are and always well be a stand up company......and in NO-WAY would ever purposely contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The probably 10's of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles pop up contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe reconsider trying to sell your product versus trashing someones elses to get people to change.....Pretty LAME!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Tedder
Solid Core Training
Portland PACE
Hammer Velo
503-473-7650
.

From: Josh LeBus
To: J. Michael Manning
Cc: OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.

Ready.. Set., go!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning" wrote:

With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1

Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
J.Michael Manning

--
Fit4ever Wellness

www.ft4evr.com
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


rondot@spiritone.com

2013-11-12

Here. Here. Jeff.
Hammer products very good and clean products. A well respected company for good reason.
ron

From: Jeff Tedder
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:59 PM
To: Josh LeBus ; J. Michael Manning
Cc: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look at the date on the article.....and nothing was proven at all if I remember correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other mates of hers used Endurolytes out of the SAME bottle and none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch hunt for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this was easy to blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way you want to market some new product by trashing a great company that goes OUT of there way to teach people about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as far as education and they have some of the greatest endurance athletes as far as Ultra people this country has ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner, Steve Born etc....They are and always well be a stand up company......and in NO-WAY would ever purposely contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The probably 10's of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles pop up contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe reconsider trying to sell your product versus trashing someones elses to get people to change.....Pretty LAME!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Tedder
Solid Core Training
Portland PACE
Hammer Velo
503-473-7650
.

From: Josh LeBus
To: J. Michael Manning
Cc: OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.

Ready.. Set., go!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning" wrote:

With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1

Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
J.Michael Manning

--
Fit4ever Wellness

www.ft4evr.com
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Troy Sexton

2013-11-12

You know that case was filed 5 years ago, and settled 4 years ago, right?

On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, J. Michael Manning wrote:

> With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1
>
> Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
> J.Michael Manning
>
> --
> Fit4ever Wellness
> www.ft4evr.com
> 503-330-5531
>
> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jeff Tedder

2013-11-12

Wow, lets see this was 2008.2009, old news buddy.....look at the date on the article.....and nothing was proven at all if I remember correctly!!!!!!...in fact a few other mates of hers used Endurolytes out of the SAME bottle and none of them tested positive, HMMMM..... it was witch hunt for a few that got caught as in being dirty......and this was easy to blame on Hammer.....Really, this is the way you want to market some new product by trashing a great company that goes OUT of there way to teach people about nutrition and does more for endurance athletes as far as education and they have some of the greatest endurance athletes as far as Ultra people this country has ever seen that work there, Dr. Bill Misner, Steve Born etc....They are and always well be a stand up company......and in NO-WAY would ever purposely contaminate anything they sell....Why??? The probably 10's of throusands of atheltes from Pro's to Rec athletes using this product every year and no issues, then a few bottles pop up contaminated.....I don't think so....Maybe reconsider trying to sell your product versus trashing someones elses to get people to change.....Pretty LAME!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Tedder
Solid Core Training
Portland PACE
Hammer Velo
503-473-7650
.

From: Josh LeBus
To: J. Michael Manning
Cc: OBRA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Legal Performance Enhancement

Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.

Ready.. Set., go!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning" wrote:

With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1

Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
J.Michael Manning

--
Fit4ever Wellness

www.ft4evr.com
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Erik Voldengen

2013-11-12

Hammer products were shared at the Baker City Classic, and they were pretty
awesome, but I don't think there was anything THAT awesome in there.

- Erik

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:20 PM, J. Michael Manning wrote:

> With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and
> Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now
> is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance
> enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1
>
> Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified
> for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can
> purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention,
> keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance
> enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
> J.Michael Manning
>
> --
> Fit4ever Wellness
> www.ft4evr.com
> 503-330-5531
>
> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Josh LeBus

2013-11-12

Can't wait for this email "chain" to get started.

Ready.. Set., go!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "J. Michael Manning" wrote:
>
> With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1
>
> Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention, keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
> J.Michael Manning
>
> --
> Fit4ever Wellness
> www.ft4evr.com
> 503-330-5531
>
> "Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


J. Michael Manning

2013-11-12

With all the current news related to the USA Cycling RaceClean program and
Amber Neben, et al suing Hammer Nutrition over contaminated products, now
is the perfect time to reconsider the source of your chosen performance
enhancement. If you are unfamiliar with the suit, check it out here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/neben-others-sue-hammer-nutrition-over-contamination-1

Klean Athlete is leading the way in sports nutrition with NSF Certified for
Sport® products, certified to be clean of banned substances. You can
purchase these locally at Fit4ever Wellness. While I have your attention,
keep your antennae up for our upcoming seminar series on performance
enhancing supplements that are totally legal. They do exist!
J.Michael Manning

--
Fit4ever Wellness
www.ft4evr.com
503-330-5531

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"