Greg Crane

George is 100% right. This is mostly hypothetical
talk over a small matter. Why would we want to make a
rule change now, shouldn't we wait until after the
hypothetical becomes reality? I'm sure the first
person who losses a medal in this situation will
understand the wisdom of our actions (or lack of
action). This idea of waiting until it is too late is
a time tested method, lets not mess with a good thing.

Greg
P.S. I wish I could go out and ride my bike right
now, but my wife has to go to work early while I watch
the kids.
--- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:

> Who cares! Go out and ride your bikes, get stronger
> and beat everyone. Then it will not matter. Never
> has so much made of so little (well not really true
> for OBRA chat). Actually, it reminds me of an adage
> from academia. "The fighting in in academia is so
> vicious precisely because the stakes are so small."
>
> Most of your solutions are too difficult to manage
> and make us look as parochial. Unfortunately,
> Oregonians are, but lets try to keep it a secret, as
> it would be nice to look more sophisticated to the
> rest of the world. Also, your proposed solutions
> would only breed more of this chatter and whining.
>
> Put some of this energy into supporting the
> championships and weekend races. I have been at
> some races where the fields were less than 20, and a
> sizeable number of those were from Washington.
>
> Also, how many of the complainers ever lost a medal
> to an out of state rider. Isn't this hypothetical
> for most.
>
> Sorry in advance for offending anyone (not really).
>
> Nice day, time to ride. Turn off computer. See you
> out there.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Ty Lambert"
>
> > This is exactly what David Russell said 100
> e-mails ago. It totally makes
> > sense!
> >
> > Ty Lambert
> > Portland Velo
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tim Schauer"
> > To: ;
> > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
> >
> >
> > > We Could.....
> > >
> > > Once a State residency process is "decided"
> .....
> > >
> > > take the approach that the Top Oregon Resident
> finisher, is the Oregon
> > > STATE Champion and the winner is the OBRA
> Champion. And maybe most of
> > > the time the winner is both the State Champ and
> the OBRA Champ. We could
> > > also just rely on residency to be based on what
> people put on their OBRA
> > > license application, without verification. The
> great old honor system!
> > >
> > > Does this seem too simple?
> > >
> > > -Tim Schauer
> > > Vancouver, WA Resident
> > > OBRA Member since 1999
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Mike Murray
> > > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:40 PM
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
> > >
> > > Some people have no problem with out of state
> people at the State
> > > Championships and some people would prefer to
> either not have them there
> > > or to not allow them to win the medal.
> > >
> > > The thing that keeps getting lost in this
> discussion is how do we define
> > > Oregon resident? Driver's license was suggested
> but some adults do not
> > > have one, some people who have lived here for
> some time still have an
> > > out of state license and none of the kids under
> 16 have one. Residence
> > > in Oregon?
> > > If I have a home in OR but I live most of the
> time elsewhere does that
> > > count? How long do you have to live there? 1
> week? 6 weeks? 6
> > > months?
> > > How would we check that? Mailing address? Anyone
> can get a PO Box in
> > > Oregon regardless of residence. Someone
> suggested that the person must
> > > compete in a specific number of events in OR but
> checking for that
> > > before handing out awards would be seriously
> onerous even with the
> > > spiffy applications that Scott Willson has
> written for the OBRA site.
> > >
> > > The easiest definition is do you have an OBRA
> membership. Excluding day
> > > of race purchase, as some have suggested, would
> potentially exclude
> > > actual residents who have not yet purchased
> membership while not
> > > excluding non-residents who have the ability to
> think ahead.
> > >
> > > If anyone thinks that excluding non-residents is
> a good idea AND they
> > > have a workable way to do this then what they
> need to do is propose a
> > > rule change
> > > at the annual meeting then we will vote on it.
> > >
> > > Mike Murray
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org >
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

____________________________________________________________________________________Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
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Don Leet

I will propose a rule change. Having an OBRA membership or not is arbitrary.
As it is we do not have State championships as stated on the medals but open
races to anyone who chooses to buy an anual membership. Residency in a state
is easy, does one live here or not. If someone chooses to "cheat" well let
them. 99% of the time it won't be a problem. And I will state that I would
prefer these races open to all. The medals would go to state residence.
Don Leet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Murray"
To:
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

> Some people have no problem with out of state people at the State
> Championships and some people would prefer to either not have them there
> or
> to not allow them to win the medal.
>
> The thing that keeps getting lost in this discussion is how do we define
> Oregon resident? Driver's license was suggested but some adults do not
> have
> one, some people who have lived here for some time still have an out of
> state license and none of the kids under 16 have one. Residence in
> Oregon?
> If I have a home in OR but I live most of the time elsewhere does that
> count? How long do you have to live there? 1 week? 6 weeks? 6 months?
> How would we check that? Mailing address? Anyone can get a PO Box in
> Oregon regardless of residence. Someone suggested that the person must
> compete in a specific number of events in OR but checking for that before
> handing out awards would be seriously onerous even with the spiffy
> applications that Scott Willson has written for the OBRA site.
>
> The easiest definition is do you have an OBRA membership. Excluding day
> of
> race purchase, as some have suggested, would potentially exclude actual
> residents who have not yet purchased membership while not excluding
> non-residents who have the ability to think ahead.
>
> If anyone thinks that excluding non-residents is a good idea AND they have
> a
> workable way to do this then what they need to do is propose a rule change
> at the annual meeting then we will vote on it.
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

gschreckchat@comcast.net

Who cares! Go out and ride your bikes, get stronger and beat everyone. Then it will not matter. Never has so much made of so little (well not really true for OBRA chat). Actually, it reminds me of an adage from academia. "The fighting in in academia is so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small."

Most of your solutions are too difficult to manage and make us look as parochial. Unfortunately, Oregonians are, but lets try to keep it a secret, as it would be nice to look more sophisticated to the rest of the world. Also, your proposed solutions would only breed more of this chatter and whining.

Put some of this energy into supporting the championships and weekend races. I have been at some races where the fields were less than 20, and a sizeable number of those were from Washington.

Also, how many of the complainers ever lost a medal to an out of state rider. Isn't this hypothetical for most.

Sorry in advance for offending anyone (not really).

Nice day, time to ride. Turn off computer. See you out there.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ty Lambert"

> This is exactly what David Russell said 100 e-mails ago. It totally makes
> sense!
>
> Ty Lambert
> Portland Velo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Schauer"
> To: ;
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
>
> > We Could.....
> >
> > Once a State residency process is "decided" .....
> >
> > take the approach that the Top Oregon Resident finisher, is the Oregon
> > STATE Champion and the winner is the OBRA Champion. And maybe most of
> > the time the winner is both the State Champ and the OBRA Champ. We could
> > also just rely on residency to be based on what people put on their OBRA
> > license application, without verification. The great old honor system!
> >
> > Does this seem too simple?
> >
> > -Tim Schauer
> > Vancouver, WA Resident
> > OBRA Member since 1999
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of Mike Murray
> > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:40 PM
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
> >
> > Some people have no problem with out of state people at the State
> > Championships and some people would prefer to either not have them there
> > or to not allow them to win the medal.
> >
> > The thing that keeps getting lost in this discussion is how do we define
> > Oregon resident? Driver's license was suggested but some adults do not
> > have one, some people who have lived here for some time still have an
> > out of state license and none of the kids under 16 have one. Residence
> > in Oregon?
> > If I have a home in OR but I live most of the time elsewhere does that
> > count? How long do you have to live there? 1 week? 6 weeks? 6
> > months?
> > How would we check that? Mailing address? Anyone can get a PO Box in
> > Oregon regardless of residence. Someone suggested that the person must
> > compete in a specific number of events in OR but checking for that
> > before handing out awards would be seriously onerous even with the
> > spiffy applications that Scott Willson has written for the OBRA site.
> >
> > The easiest definition is do you have an OBRA membership. Excluding day
> > of race purchase, as some have suggested, would potentially exclude
> > actual residents who have not yet purchased membership while not
> > excluding non-residents who have the ability to think ahead.
> >
> > If anyone thinks that excluding non-residents is a good idea AND they
> > have a workable way to do this then what they need to do is propose a
> > rule change
> > at the annual meeting then we will vote on it.
> >
> > Mike Murray
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Erik Voldengen

Actually, I think *your* reading of *my* message was flawed. I'm saying
the same thing. One race. Not cumulative points.

-Erik

Craig Austin wrote:
> Tim's and Dave's solution isn't flawed, your reading of the solution is
> flawed. The BAR is a different animal from the winner of the OBRA road
> race championship. The US championships, as a couple of people have said
> earlier, aren't restricted to US residents. The fastest US resident
> wears the stars and stripes, but isn't always the one who wins that
> race. No reason it couldn't work the same way in Oregon.
>
> Here's a nice chart showing the US champions each year, and the actual
> race winners. Note they're quite often not the same person.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USPRO_National_Championships#Winners
>
> Craig
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Erik Voldengen
> *Sent:* Fri 5/11/2007 2:54 PM
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
> No, it's not too simple, but it is flawed.
>
> It has to be one race. Just like, as someone said earlier, the
> olympics, world championships, US championships, etc.
>
> While winning the BAR is a very prestigious accomplishment, it's not the
> same thing. Think World Champ versus Protour points leader.
>
> -Erik
>
>
> Tim Schauer wrote:
> >
> > Does this seem too simple?
> >
> > -Tim Schauer
> > Vancouver, WA Resident
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Rick Johnson

I'm just wondering what's the hang up with the "it has to be one race"
thing? Every motorsports organization I've ever been affiliated with
decides championship standings based on a series. FIA, FIM, NASCAR,
AMA, SCCA (and many others) all believe a championship is earned
through consistently placing at the top level of competition race after
race. Not just having one good (or perhaps lucky) day. All make maximum
benefit of building the drama of the championship chase throughout the
season.

Why is it so different with bicycles?



Consider that at the very least a series guarantees that the eventual
winner participates in a minimum number of events. It eliminates the
whole "they showed up for only one day and took our medal <sniffle,
sniffle>" problem.



Rick





Erik Voldengen wrote:

No, it's not too simple, but it is flawed.

It has to be one race.  Just like, as someone said earlier, the 

olympics, world championships, US championships, etc.

While winning the BAR is a very prestigious accomplishment, it's not the 

same thing.  Think World Champ versus Protour points leader.

-Erik

Tim Schauer wrote:

  

Does this seem too simple?

-Tim Schauer

Vancouver, WA Resident

    

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

  

Erik Voldengen

No, it's not too simple, but it is flawed.

It has to be one race. Just like, as someone said earlier, the
olympics, world championships, US championships, etc.

While winning the BAR is a very prestigious accomplishment, it's not the
same thing. Think World Champ versus Protour points leader.

-Erik

Tim Schauer wrote:
>
> Does this seem too simple?
>
> -Tim Schauer
> Vancouver, WA Resident

Ty Lambert

This is exactly what David Russell said 100 e-mails ago. It totally makes
sense!

Ty Lambert
Portland Velo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Schauer"
To: ;
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

> We Could.....
>
> Once a State residency process is "decided" .....
>
> take the approach that the Top Oregon Resident finisher, is the Oregon
> STATE Champion and the winner is the OBRA Champion. And maybe most of
> the time the winner is both the State Champ and the OBRA Champ. We could
> also just rely on residency to be based on what people put on their OBRA
> license application, without verification. The great old honor system!
>
> Does this seem too simple?
>
> -Tim Schauer
> Vancouver, WA Resident
> OBRA Member since 1999
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Murray
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:40 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
> Some people have no problem with out of state people at the State
> Championships and some people would prefer to either not have them there
> or to not allow them to win the medal.
>
> The thing that keeps getting lost in this discussion is how do we define
> Oregon resident? Driver's license was suggested but some adults do not
> have one, some people who have lived here for some time still have an
> out of state license and none of the kids under 16 have one. Residence
> in Oregon?
> If I have a home in OR but I live most of the time elsewhere does that
> count? How long do you have to live there? 1 week? 6 weeks? 6
> months?
> How would we check that? Mailing address? Anyone can get a PO Box in
> Oregon regardless of residence. Someone suggested that the person must
> compete in a specific number of events in OR but checking for that
> before handing out awards would be seriously onerous even with the
> spiffy applications that Scott Willson has written for the OBRA site.
>
> The easiest definition is do you have an OBRA membership. Excluding day
> of race purchase, as some have suggested, would potentially exclude
> actual residents who have not yet purchased membership while not
> excluding non-residents who have the ability to think ahead.
>
> If anyone thinks that excluding non-residents is a good idea AND they
> have a workable way to do this then what they need to do is propose a
> rule change
> at the annual meeting then we will vote on it.
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Tim Schauer

We Could.....

Once a State residency process is "decided" .....

take the approach that the Top Oregon Resident finisher, is the Oregon
STATE Champion and the winner is the OBRA Champion. And maybe most of
the time the winner is both the State Champ and the OBRA Champ. We could
also just rely on residency to be based on what people put on their OBRA
license application, without verification. The great old honor system!

Does this seem too simple?

-Tim Schauer
Vancouver, WA Resident
OBRA Member since 1999

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Murray
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:40 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

Some people have no problem with out of state people at the State
Championships and some people would prefer to either not have them there
or to not allow them to win the medal.

The thing that keeps getting lost in this discussion is how do we define
Oregon resident? Driver's license was suggested but some adults do not
have one, some people who have lived here for some time still have an
out of state license and none of the kids under 16 have one. Residence
in Oregon?
If I have a home in OR but I live most of the time elsewhere does that
count? How long do you have to live there? 1 week? 6 weeks? 6
months?
How would we check that? Mailing address? Anyone can get a PO Box in
Oregon regardless of residence. Someone suggested that the person must
compete in a specific number of events in OR but checking for that
before handing out awards would be seriously onerous even with the
spiffy applications that Scott Willson has written for the OBRA site.

The easiest definition is do you have an OBRA membership. Excluding day
of race purchase, as some have suggested, would potentially exclude
actual residents who have not yet purchased membership while not
excluding non-residents who have the ability to think ahead.

If anyone thinks that excluding non-residents is a good idea AND they
have a workable way to do this then what they need to do is propose a
rule change
at the annual meeting then we will vote on it.

Mike Murray

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

Some people have no problem with out of state people at the State
Championships and some people would prefer to either not have them there or
to not allow them to win the medal.

The thing that keeps getting lost in this discussion is how do we define
Oregon resident? Driver's license was suggested but some adults do not have
one, some people who have lived here for some time still have an out of
state license and none of the kids under 16 have one. Residence in Oregon?
If I have a home in OR but I live most of the time elsewhere does that
count? How long do you have to live there? 1 week? 6 weeks? 6 months?
How would we check that? Mailing address? Anyone can get a PO Box in
Oregon regardless of residence. Someone suggested that the person must
compete in a specific number of events in OR but checking for that before
handing out awards would be seriously onerous even with the spiffy
applications that Scott Willson has written for the OBRA site.

The easiest definition is do you have an OBRA membership. Excluding day of
race purchase, as some have suggested, would potentially exclude actual
residents who have not yet purchased membership while not excluding
non-residents who have the ability to think ahead.

If anyone thinks that excluding non-residents is a good idea AND they have a
workable way to do this then what they need to do is propose a rule change
at the annual meeting then we will vote on it.

Mike Murray

Ron Frerichs

Karl used to come out to Eugene's Thursday nighter pretty regularly.
Occassionally, I would go off the front with him. Trading pulls with him
was more intense than motor pacing, and it made me a better racer. We had,
and still do have, people visiting town come out from time to time. It is
always good to have new faces change the dynamic a little, as long as
they're safe.

But, just like every other training ride or race held in Oregon, that
doesn't have anything to do with how we decide our categories in the OBRA
championship races.

No one has said we should exclude pros or non-Oregonians from any other
event. They just want to re-define what our championship races represent.

From: "Don Leet"
To: ,
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 06:07:19 -0700

I feel that Aaron should be included. Years ago when I was director of the
Cascade we had that same situation. Karl Maxon, fresh (or not so fresh) from
the Giro was also the best Oregon rider. The thing about a state
championship is it is simple you are a resident of Oregon you get to recieve
a medal. It must be made clear that I believe those from out of state should
be allowed to compete just not recieve state medals. I would rather be
second to Dave Zimbalman than win over a weeker field. It makes us better to
race against the best.
Don Leet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Murray"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

> Hutchsraceteam wrote:
> "last year we almost had a rider from the Tour of Italy win the regional
> title."
>
> That would be Aaron Olson. Born and raised here in Oregon, started
racing
> here, as much of Oregonian as anyone else. Was this a suggestion that
> people who race elsewhere but who were born here and live here should be
> excluded? Or maybe just those that get fast enough to race in big name
> races elsewhere? Or maybe just all the people in front of you?
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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Don Leet

I feel that Aaron should be included. Years ago when I was director of the
Cascade we had that same situation. Karl Maxon, fresh (or not so fresh) from
the Giro was also the best Oregon rider. The thing about a state
championship is it is simple you are a resident of Oregon you get to recieve
a medal. It must be made clear that I believe those from out of state should
be allowed to compete just not recieve state medals. I would rather be
second to Dave Zimbalman than win over a weeker field. It makes us better to
race against the best.
Don Leet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Murray"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

> Hutchsraceteam wrote:
> "last year we almost had a rider from the Tour of Italy win the regional
> title."
>
> That would be Aaron Olson. Born and raised here in Oregon, started racing
> here, as much of Oregonian as anyone else. Was this a suggestion that
> people who race elsewhere but who were born here and live here should be
> excluded? Or maybe just those that get fast enough to race in big name
> races elsewhere? Or maybe just all the people in front of you?
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Mike Murray

Hutchsraceteam wrote:
"last year we almost had a rider from the Tour of Italy win the regional
title."

That would be Aaron Olson. Born and raised here in Oregon, started racing
here, as much of Oregonian as anyone else. Was this a suggestion that
people who race elsewhere but who were born here and live here should be
excluded? Or maybe just those that get fast enough to race in big name
races elsewhere? Or maybe just all the people in front of you?

Mike Murray

Jerald M Powell

First off, in spite of the fact that USCF rules clearly state that
THEIR state championships are only for residents of that state as
identified on their racing license... I like the fact that our
championships are an "open" championship. But if they were to be
limited in some way, and limited in such a way that the best field
was to compete for a championship... how about limiting each field to
the first hundred riders (or whatever, depending on the discipline)
in the BAR?

Jerry

Jerry Powell
USAC Level 1 Coach
1926 SW Madison St
Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173
503 799 7823

jpowell@spiritone.com

On May 8, 2007, at 10:29 AM, gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:

> As all good ideas in theory, a management nightmare. I nominate
> Greg to be in charge of managing it. Make sure you monitor all the
> race the results daily to see who has enough races to qualify and
> be there with your list of eligible riders at every state
> championship. After all, medals are presented at the race and not a
> month later. ;-)
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Greg Crane
>
> > I like the idea of an open and inclusive championship
> > for all riders in and out of state. I do think that
> > it is not, however, in the spirit of an Oregon or OBRA
> > championship for a person to show up on the day of a
> > race (especially from out of state) and win a medal.
> >
> > There is a very real issue of fairness. A very
> > experienced person from out of state who has never
> > been in an OBRA race could win at a level well below
> > their abilities. I for one would feel very cheated if
> > I came in second to a CAT 1 rider from out of state.
> >
> > I do not know how easy this would be to administer,
> > but perhaps a rule requiring a min. number of OBRA
> > races, say 5 or so, in a 12 month rolling perio d prior
> > to qualifying for a medal. This would allow for out
> > of state riders who race OBRA on a somewhat regular
> > basis to win as well as insure riders are racing at
> > their correct experience level.
> >
> > Greg
> > --- Candi Murray wrote:
> >
> > > Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders
> > > currently jut over 230
> > > come from California or Washington. I have tried to
> > > get away from calling
> > > them the State Championships and just calling them
> > > the OBRA championships
> > > Candi
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> > > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
> > > To: OBRA
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
> > >
> > > >From what I can gather the qualifications for the
> > > Oregon State
> > > Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an
> > > annual OBRA license
> > > holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been
> > > examined in the recent
> > > past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at
> > > the Spring Thaw, in at
> > > least one case, someone from Central California
> > > bought an annual license and
> > > took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
> > > This just seems wrong to
> > > me. I don't know if he did it just for that reason
> > > or he thought he might
> > > come up for another race. I didn't see him listed as
> > > doing any other Oregon
> > > races.
> > > Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon
> > > resident to qualify?
> > > Dave M
> > > ___________________________________ ______ ______
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

As all good ideas in theory, a management nightmare. I nominate Greg to be in charge of managing it. Make sure you monitor all the race the results daily to see who has enough races to qualify and be there with your list of eligible riders at every state championship. After all, medals are presented at the race and not a month later. ;-)

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Greg Crane

> I like the idea of an open and inclusive championship
> for all riders in and out of state. I do think that
> it is not, however, in the spirit of an Oregon or OBRA
> championship for a person to show up on the day of a
> race (especially from out of state) and win a medal.
>
> There is a very real issue of fairness. A very
> experienced person from out of state who has never
> been in an OBRA race could win at a level well below
> their abilities. I for one would feel very cheated if
> I came in second to a CAT 1 rider from out of state.
>
> I do not know how easy this would be to administer,
> but perhaps a rule requiring a min. number of OBRA
> races, say 5 or so, in a 12 month rolling period prior
> to qualifying for a medal. This would allow for out
> of state riders who race OBRA on a somewhat regular
> basis to win as well as insure riders are racing at
> their correct experience level.
>
> Greg
> --- Candi Murray wrote:
>
> > Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders
> > currently jut over 230
> > come from California or Washington. I have tried to
> > get away from calling
> > them the State Championships and just calling them
> > the OBRA championships
> > Candi
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
> > To: OBRA
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
> >
> > From what I can gather the qualifications for the
> > Oregon State
> > Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an
> > annual OBRA license
> > holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been
> > examined in the recent
> > past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at
> > the Spring Thaw, in at
> > least one case, someone from Central California
> > bought an annual license and
> > took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
> > This just seems wrong to
> > me. I don't know if he did it just for that reason
> > or he thought he might
> > come up for another race. I didn't see him listed as
> > doing any other Oregon
> > races.
> > Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon
> > resident to qualify?
> > Dave M
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Greg Crane

I like the idea of an open and inclusive championship
for all riders in and out of state. I do think that
it is not, however, in the spirit of an Oregon or OBRA
championship for a person to show up on the day of a
race (especially from out of state) and win a medal.

There is a very real issue of fairness. A very
experienced person from out of state who has never
been in an OBRA race could win at a level well below
their abilities. I for one would feel very cheated if
I came in second to a CAT 1 rider from out of state.

I do not know how easy this would be to administer,
but perhaps a rule requiring a min. number of OBRA
races, say 5 or so, in a 12 month rolling period prior
to qualifying for a medal. This would allow for out
of state riders who race OBRA on a somewhat regular
basis to win as well as insure riders are racing at
their correct experience level.

Greg
--- Candi Murray wrote:

> Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders
> currently jut over 230
> come from California or Washington. I have tried to
> get away from calling
> them the State Championships and just calling them
> the OBRA championships
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
> From what I can gather the qualifications for the
> Oregon State
> Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an
> annual OBRA license
> holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been
> examined in the recent
> past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at
> the Spring Thaw, in at
> least one case, someone from Central California
> bought an annual license and
> took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
> This just seems wrong to
> me. I don't know if he did it just for that reason
> or he thought he might
> come up for another race. I didn't see him listed as
> doing any other Oregon
> races.
> Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon
> resident to qualify?
> Dave M
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

__________________________________________________
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bikingmom@centurytel.net

Hi All,

I'm usually just a quiet reader of the OBRA chatter, but this is a
topic that I
have some interest in. I live in Yakima, WA and race and train at Alpenrose.
I've had some race success over the past several years and travel to races at
other tracks, including masters nats. and world championships. My home track
is Alpenrose and I proudly list that on my Bio. no matter what track I'm at,
even when at Marymoor.

Sure, my home address is still in Washington, but my heart is at
Alpenrose and I
feel part of that community, ride for a Portland based team (Bike Central) and
travel there weekly during track season.

Sure, there may be times when someone who is faster than you from the
"outside"
comes to your races. So, train to beat them and be your best. Once you do
that, the winning will happen, no matter who's at the races and you'll be a
better person and bike racer for it.

Donna Smith

Quoting Erik Voldengen :

> It doesn't really matter WHO shows up, because they're all slower than
> us...right?
>
> -Erik
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Bryan Foster

I stand corrected! Sean Doyle did receive the medal for the RR, a rider from
WA was denied.

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lisa graham

But doesn't that rider list Oregon as home? The catagory is PRO,1,2 right?

>From: STEVEN R HOLLAND
>To: hutchsraceteam , obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 16:36:12 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Before ya all get to upset about this matter.....Check out what the medal
>says "OBRA" Championship.....not "Oregon State" Championship. Like Candi
>said, these are "OBRA" championships not state championships.
>
> That being said, I would suggest no one be eligible to win a medal after
>buying the OBRA membership on the day of the race.......
>
>hutchsraceteam wrote:
> I see value on both sides. One could easily argue that if one races
>frequently in the Seattle area during the year that they should be eligible
>for the USCF Washington State Championship? I think a good compromise
>would be to restrict the Championship based on OBRA participation. The
>problem is coming up with a way to administer it.
>
> I have nothing against frequent OBRA participants being eligible for the
>Championships. It is that fact that anyone can just show up and buy a
>membership and take home the Championship. There are other Championships
>available for other riders from other organizations or levels.
>Historically I realize that this has not been an issue, but last year we
>almost had a rider from the Tour of Italy win the regional title.
>
> AP
>
>tackyglueit wrote:
>
> why would someone from Vancouver count? i don't see why frequently
>racing outside the state you live in qualifies you for out of state
>championship privileges?
>
>
>
> On 5/7/07, Tim Schauer wrote: Yep! There
>are certainly a lot of loyal, very actively racing, long time
>OBRA members, that reside in SW Washington. There are even a few good
>OBRA events up on this side of the river too!...;-)
>
>-Tim Schauer
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of Candi Murray
>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:32 PM
>To: masessa@charter.net; obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
>Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over
>230 come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from
>calling them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA
>championships Candi
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org ] On
>Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
>To: OBRA
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
>From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
>Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
>holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the
>recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring
>Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an
>annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
>This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that
>reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him
>listed as doing any other Oregon races.
>Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
>Dave M
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>STEVEN R HOLLAND
>17203 SE 30TH ST
>VANCOUVER,WA 98683
>C-503-780-7296

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Bryan Foster

For what it's worth, I agree with Massesa that maybe it should be limited to
Oregon residents, mind you I live in Yreka. A few years ago at the State RR
Sean Doyle from Mt. Shasta won the event but was not state champ because he
lived out of state. It would be no different if an Oregon rider went the
California Districts and won the event.
Maybe the issue is that OBRA has reached a turning point and may need to
become something bigger to accomidate its out of state ridership. Maybe its
time to include the other FIAC members and become the other National
Governing body of cycling. But this time we cn do it right.

Tater

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Ron Frerichs

Doesn't OBRA stand for Oregon Bicycle Racing Association? Maybe we should
just change our name to EBRA - Everybody's Bicycle Racing Association.

From: STEVEN R HOLLAND
To: hutchsraceteam , obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 16:36:12 -0700 (PDT)

Before ya all get to upset about this matter.....Check out what the medal
says "OBRA" Championship.....not "Oregon State" Championship. Like Candi
said, these are "OBRA" championships not state championships.

That being said, I would suggest no one be eligible to win a medal after
buying the OBRA membership on the day of the race.......

hutchsraceteam wrote:
I see value on both sides. One could easily argue that if one races
frequently in the Seattle area during the year that they should be eligible
for the USCF Washington State Championship? I think a good compromise would
be to restrict the Championship based on OBRA participation. The problem is
coming up with a way to administer it.

I have nothing against frequent OBRA participants being eligible for the
Championships. It is that fact that anyone can just show up and buy a
membership and take home the Championship. There are other Championships
available for other riders from other organizations or levels. Historically
I realize that this has not been an issue, but last year we almost had a
rider from the Tour of Italy win the regional title.

AP

tackyglueit wrote:

why would someone from Vancouver count? i don't see why frequently
racing outside the state you live in qualifies you for out of state
championship privileges?

On 5/7/07, Tim Schauer wrote: Yep! There
are certainly a lot of loyal, very actively racing, long time
OBRA members, that reside in SW Washington. There are even a few good
OBRA events up on this side of the river too!...;-)

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:32 PM
To: masessa@charter.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over
230 come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from
calling them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA
championships Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org ] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the
recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring
Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an
annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that
reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him
listed as doing any other Oregon races.
Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
Dave M
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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OBRA mailing list
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30TH ST
VANCOUVER,WA 98683
C-503-780-7296

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Erik Voldengen

It doesn't really matter WHO shows up, because they're all slower than
us...right?

-Erik

Joe Cipale

Hoooboy... let the smack-down start...

Many of us who live in Vancouver and race in OBRA because the nearest WA race is up North at Mason Lake.

Otherwise we are looking at making long drives to race 'in state'. As long as I have been a member (going on 15 years now), OBRA has never excluded based on state of residence, nor should they. If a OBRA member lives in Washington... or Idaho... or California and takes advantage of what promoters have to offer, then they should be eligible to win OBRA Championships.

Joe C.

tackyglueit wrote:

> why would someone from Vancouver count? i don't see why frequently racing
> outside the state you live in qualifies you for out of state championship
> privileges?
>
>
>
> On 5/7/07, Tim Schauer wrote:
> >
> > Yep! There are certainly a lot of loyal, very actively racing, long time
> > OBRA members, that reside in SW Washington. There are even a few good
> > OBRA events up on this side of the river too!...;-)
> >
> > -Tim Schauer
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of Candi Murray
> > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:32 PM
> > To: masessa@charter.net; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
> >
> > Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over
> > 230 come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from
> > calling them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA
> > championships Candi
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
> > To: OBRA
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
> >
> > From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
> > Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
> > holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the
> > recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring
> > Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an
> > annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
> > This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that
> > reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him
> > listed as doing any other Oregon races.
> > Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
> > Dave M
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >

gschreckchat@comcast.net

Because it is an OBRA Championship, not a state championship. Given the fact that the Portland metropolitan area includes Vancouver, I think those people belong, and the Three Rivers team lives in Longview, just across the river and put on the Three Rivers Road Race in Rainier, Oregon. I do not think it would be fair to exclude them. In fact, there are people all along the Columbia like Dave Zimbleman who consistently race in Oregon, and OBRA was certainly proud of his National Championship. This is not to ignore people in Northern California who race in Oregon as well.

Lets not be parochial and welcome everyone, and if they are the better racer, I guess we have to live with it. I think we are the better for their participation.

I realize that Washington has a different rule, but there is no reason to follow their narrrow perspective. Also, they probably do not have a large contingent of out of state racers compared to Oregon, so it may be less of an issue.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: tackyglueit

why would someone from Vancouver count? i don't see why frequently racing outside the state you live in qualifies you for out of state championship privileges?

On 5/7/07, Tim Schauer wrote:
Yep! There are certainly a lot of loyal, very actively racing, long time
OBRA members, that reside in SW Washington. There are even a few good
OBRA events up on this side of the river too!...;-)

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:32 PM
To: masessa@charter.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over
230 come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from
calling them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA
championships Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org ] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the
recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring
Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an
annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that
reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him
listed as doing any other Oregon races.
Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
Dave M
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STEVEN R HOLLAND

Before ya all get to upset about this matter.....Check out what the medal says "OBRA" Championship.....not "Oregon State" Championship. Like Candi said, these are "OBRA" championships not state championships.

That being said, I would suggest no one be eligible to win a medal after buying the OBRA membership on the day of the race.......

hutchsraceteam wrote:
I see value on both sides. One could easily argue that if one races frequently in the Seattle area during the year that they should be eligible for the USCF Washington State Championship? I think a good compromise would be to restrict the Championship based on OBRA participation. The problem is coming up with a way to administer it.

I have nothing against frequent OBRA participants being eligible for the Championships. It is that fact that anyone can just show up and buy a membership and take home the Championship. There are other Championships available for other riders from other organizations or levels. Historically I realize that this has not been an issue, but last year we almost had a rider from the Tour of Italy win the regional title.

AP

tackyglueit wrote:

why would someone from Vancouver count? i don't see why frequently racing outside the state you live in qualifies you for out of state championship privileges?

On 5/7/07, Tim Schauer wrote: Yep! There are certainly a lot of loyal, very actively racing, long time
OBRA members, that reside in SW Washington. There are even a few good
OBRA events up on this side of the river too!...;-)

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:32 PM
To: masessa@charter.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over
230 come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from
calling them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA
championships Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org ] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the
recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring
Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an
annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that
reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him
listed as doing any other Oregon races.
Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
Dave M
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. _______________________________________________
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STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30TH ST
VANCOUVER,WA 98683
C-503-780-7296

hutchsraceteam

I see value on both sides. One could easily argue that if one races frequently in the Seattle area during the year that they should be eligible for the USCF Washington State Championship? I think a good compromise would be to restrict the Championship based on OBRA participation. The problem is coming up with a way to administer it.

I have nothing against frequent OBRA participants being eligible for the Championships. It is that fact that anyone can just show up and buy a membership and take home the Championship. There are other Championships available for other riders from other organizations or levels. Historically I realize that this has not been an issue, but last year we almost had a rider from the Tour of Italy win the regional title.

AP

tackyglueit wrote:

why would someone from Vancouver count? i don't see why frequently racing outside the state you live in qualifies you for out of state championship privileges?

On 5/7/07, Tim Schauer wrote: Yep! There are certainly a lot of loyal, very actively racing, long time
OBRA members, that reside in SW Washington. There are even a few good
OBRA events up on this side of the river too!...;-)

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto: obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:32 PM
To: masessa@charter.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over
230 come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from
calling them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA
championships Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org ] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the
recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring
Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an
annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that
reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him
listed as doing any other Oregon races.
Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
Dave M
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

tackyglueit

why would someone from Vancouver count? i don't see why frequently racing
outside the state you live in qualifies you for out of state championship
privileges?

On 5/7/07, Tim Schauer wrote:
>
> Yep! There are certainly a lot of loyal, very actively racing, long time
> OBRA members, that reside in SW Washington. There are even a few good
> OBRA events up on this side of the river too!...;-)
>
> -Tim Schauer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Candi Murray
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:32 PM
> To: masessa@charter.net; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
> Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over
> 230 come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from
> calling them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA
> championships Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
> From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
> Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
> holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the
> recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring
> Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an
> annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
> This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that
> reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him
> listed as doing any other Oregon races.
> Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
> Dave M
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

masessa@charter.net

If it's going to be a "State Championship" it could be just residents. But, I agree it would suck to exclude our neighbors (like Yreka also) who support OBRA every year. Maybe you should have to have a license at the start of the season to qualify for a Championship placing.
This may be a rare case since the championship race was in S. Oregon this year and more Californians came up. I just hate seeing OBRA people bumped out by a one time racer from Cali. Maybe we could charge them triple for an annual license. j/k

---- Mike Murray wrote:
> The problem lies in defining "Oregon resident". Do people who live in
> Vancouver and race frequently and only in Oregon count? What do we use as
> proof of residence? Drivers license? What if they don't have one? Mailing
> address? Anyone can have a PO Box. We have opted for the simplest
> definition, annual OBRA member. Alternative definitions could be proposed.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 15:20 PM
> To: OBRA
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships
>
>
> From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
> Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
> holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the recent
> past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring Thaw, in at
> least one case, someone from Central California bought an annual license and
> took home a State Championship medal (3rd place). This just seems wrong to
> me. I don't know if he did it just for that reason or he thought he might
> come up for another race. I didn't see him listed as doing any other Oregon
> races. Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to
> qualify? Dave M _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Tim Schauer

Yep! There are certainly a lot of loyal, very actively racing, long time
OBRA members, that reside in SW Washington. There are even a few good
OBRA events up on this side of the river too!...;-)

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Candi Murray
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:32 PM
To: masessa@charter.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over
230 come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from
calling them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA
championships Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the
recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring
Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an
annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place).
This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that
reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him
listed as doing any other Oregon races.
Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
Dave M
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

The problem lies in defining "Oregon resident". Do people who live in
Vancouver and race frequently and only in Oregon count? What do we use as
proof of residence? Drivers license? What if they don't have one? Mailing
address? Anyone can have a PO Box. We have opted for the simplest
definition, annual OBRA member. Alternative definitions could be proposed.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 15:20 PM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the recent
past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring Thaw, in at
least one case, someone from Central California bought an annual license and
took home a State Championship medal (3rd place). This just seems wrong to
me. I don't know if he did it just for that reason or he thought he might
come up for another race. I didn't see him listed as doing any other Oregon
races. Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to
qualify? Dave M _______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

Yes that is indeed the rule. Out of our 2032 riders currently jut over 230
come from California or Washington. I have tried to get away from calling
them the State Championships and just calling them the OBRA championships
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of masessa@charter.net
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:20 PM
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] State Championships

From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State
Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license
holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the recent
past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring Thaw, in at
least one case, someone from Central California bought an annual license and
took home a State Championship medal (3rd place). This just seems wrong to
me. I don't know if he did it just for that reason or he thought he might
come up for another race. I didn't see him listed as doing any other Oregon
races.
Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
Dave M
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

masessa@charter.net

From what I can gather the qualifications for the Oregon State Championships, in any event, is that the racer be an annual OBRA license holder. Is that all that's needed? And has this been examined in the recent past? The reason I'm asking is that this weekend at the Spring Thaw, in at least one case, someone from Central California bought an annual license and took home a State Championship medal (3rd place). This just seems wrong to me. I don't know if he did it just for that reason or he thought he might come up for another race. I didn't see him listed as doing any other Oregon races.
Any thoughts on requiring a person to be an Oregon resident to qualify?
Dave M

DDAVID-@aol.com

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hello all,

maybe somebody that is in the know could just fill us in on the current

theory of when we could expect results to be posted, so people like me, that are

maybe a little bit anal, could relax a bit.

i did love that course.

thank-you

david



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">hello all,<BR>

maybe somebody that is in the know could just fill us in on the current theory of when we could expect results to be posted, so people like me, that are maybe a little bit anal, could relax a bit.<BR>

i did love that course.<BR>

thank-you<BR>

david </FONT></HTML>



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