David Hart

USAC rules are just as gray. The power is given to the CR to make the PIT rules prior to the event. It wouldn't hurt for the CR the night before or even a week before, write up what the PIT rules are for a certain race. Email the chat list and post at registration what the PIT rules are for that course and read them at the start line. Therefore, there should be no issues.

David HartNSCA-Certified Personal Trainer/Yoga InstructorNautilus Fitness Center at Marshall Community Center360.241.8463http://www.cityofvancouver.us/parksrec/page/marshall-center-fitness

From: mike.murray@obra.org
To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:33:21 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

The current rule doesn’t require that the equipment be in the pit beforehand. It also does not require that the rider report to the pit before hunting elsewhere for needed equipment. It would be a good idea to modify this rule to make it more specific as it is not difficult to imagine someone keeping a flat tire in their car and then fetching it as evidence of a mechanical when they get tired. In the past there was a rider that I am fairly certain had a race wheel with a broken spoke that he started with. He would stop frequently with a broken spoke but the wheel was true. Personally I think you could make the argument that a broke spoke in a wheel that remains true is not an essential component failure. More importantly the rules allow for a free lap. This is a single lap out (2 on a short course) but the wording for that rule is insufficiently specific. If the field goes by more than once without the disabled rider in it then they are down laps. They do not have an unlimited time to make it to the pit, leave the pit to find a replacement part, etc. The total process needs to take only 1 lap. Cross is a different deal as there is no free lap. Mike Murray From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Staples
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 14:24
To: cmurray@obra.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits I know in the past I have allowed racers in both cross and crits to leave the pit once I have deemed the it to be a legitimate failure to get spare equipment then come back for the actual change of faulty equipment.

Jordan StaplesMill Direct Lumber Sales
On Jul 22, 2014, at 1:57 PM, "Candi Murray" wrote:So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize this.Candi From: Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
To: Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits Hi Candi (and other officials), Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels in the pit. At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment. I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it. DaveFrom: cmurray@obra.org
To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- PitsJust a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly for all riders.C
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OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
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Mike Murray

At 30 mph a 1 k course takes 75 seconds to complete a lap. Since a 1 K course allows for 2 laps that gives the rider 1:30 to complete the free lap process. If the rider is as far away as possible (0.5 K) and they ride to the pit at 15 MPH they will get there in 1:15 which still allows 15 seconds for the wheel change. This represent pretty much the minimum time. Lengthen the course, slow the pace or speed up the return to the pit and the time gets longer. This should be a hurried process as otherwise it represents an unfair advantage. The rider should be expected to ride on the flat or run to accomplish it. After all, the competitors still in the race are not taking a break. This is the process that is followed elsewhere. Riders are never allowed a free lap AFTER they arrive at the pit.

Mike Murray

From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Steven Beardsley
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 14:43
To: Candi Murray
Cc: OBRA Officials
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

I think these rules need to be revised this winter. The average crit lap takes 60-90 seconds. If a rider gets a flat on the far side of a course, there is no way that they can safely travel 4 blocks in cycling shoes and change a wheel (or two) in 60-90 seconds. If the rule was followed to the letter, most everyone would be be a lap down once they get back into the race

It seems that the rules should read that riders with a mishap will report directly to the pit as quickly as possible, and then be allowed 1 lap to make repairs with equipment placed in the pit prior to the beginning of the race.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize this.

Candi

From: Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
To: Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

Hi Candi (and other officials),

Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels in the pit.

At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.

I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.

Dave

_____

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.

If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.

I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly for all riders.

C

_______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Mike Murray

The current rule doesn’t require that the equipment be in the pit beforehand. It also does not require that the rider report to the pit before hunting elsewhere for needed equipment. It would be a good idea to modify this rule to make it more specific as it is not difficult to imagine someone keeping a flat tire in their car and then fetching it as evidence of a mechanical when they get tired. In the past there was a rider that I am fairly certain had a race wheel with a broken spoke that he started with. He would stop frequently with a broken spoke but the wheel was true. Personally I think you could make the argument that a broke spoke in a wheel that remains true is not an essential component failure.

More importantly the rules allow for a free lap. This is a single lap out (2 on a short course) but the wording for that rule is insufficiently specific. If the field goes by more than once without the disabled rider in it then they are down laps. They do not have an unlimited time to make it to the pit, leave the pit to find a replacement part, etc. The total process needs to take only 1 lap.

Cross is a different deal as there is no free lap.

Mike Murray

From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Staples
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 14:24
To: cmurray@obra.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

I know in the past I have allowed racers in both cross and crits to leave the pit once I have deemed the it to be a legitimate failure to get spare equipment then come back for the actual change of faulty equipment.

Jordan Staples

Mill Direct Lumber Sales

On Jul 22, 2014, at 1:57 PM, "Candi Murray" wrote:

So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize this.

Candi

From: Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
To: Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

Hi Candi (and other officials),

Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels in the pit.

At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.

I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.

Dave

_____

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.

If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.

I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly for all riders.

C

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_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

C Murray

I agree that we need this discussion and that instructions from the Chief Referee are vital to the explanation on how we jointly will enforce it

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 22, 2014, at 3:07 PM, Mike Hilbrandt wrote:
>
> I think the issue is that the rule leaves a little too much to interpretation and there are those out there who will use that to justify all sorts of behaviors.
> I know it happens every season, but we are seeing a lot of these questionable behaviors recently - from the recent pit mishaps to the Tabor series incidents.
>
> The unfortunate thing is that it seems to be our veteran riders who are continuously pushing the boundaries - these are the the folks who the new riders are looking to for guidance and tutelage. It would be an awesome thing if we collectively thought the same way about rules and sportsmanship, but since that is never going to happen maybe we need to be more specific in our rules.
>
> I am also for naming the rule after the rider who makes it necessary to create the rule.
>
>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Peter Werner wrote:
>> The rules for crit do not state so, nor does the general section on road racing appear to apply here either. The Chief Ref could choose to limit equipment exchanged to that which is already in the pit at the start of the race, negating running off to get a wheel while leaving one's bike in the pit. In addition, the CR can state all repairs must happen in the pit, thus eliminating the swap of a wheel while en route to the pit or from outside the pit. Two sentences from the CR should pre-resolve it.
>>
>> Also, based on the current wording, the rider could present themselves to the Pit Ref, leave their bike to retrieve the part, then return and they would not have violated any rule...same for a part hand-up. As long as the mishap/mechanical qualifies, their is no rule barring this behavior.
>>
>> These would be excellent additions to the rules.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:23:15 -0700
>> From: mahilbrandt@gmail.com
>> To: cmurray@obra.org
>> CC: obra_officials@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>>
>>
>> It also does not mention getting support from those outside of the pit - say a rider gets a flat goes to the pit and has no wheel. Can a spectator had them their wheel or bike to continue?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
>> So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize this.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
>> To: Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
>> Subject: RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Candi (and other officials),
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels in the pit.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> From: cmurray@obra.org
>> To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
>> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
>> Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>>
>> Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.
>>
>> If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.
>>
>> I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly for all riders.
>>
>> C
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>

Mike Hilbrandt

I think the issue is that the rule leaves a little too much to
interpretation and there are those out there who will use that to justify
all sorts of behaviors.
I know it happens every season, but we are seeing a lot of these
questionable behaviors recently - from the recent pit mishaps to the Tabor
series incidents.

The unfortunate thing is that it seems to be our veteran riders who are
continuously pushing the boundaries - these are the the folks who the new
riders are looking to for guidance and tutelage. It would be an awesome
thing if we collectively thought the same way about rules and
sportsmanship, but since that is never going to happen maybe we need to be
more specific in our rules.

I am also for naming the rule after the rider who makes it necessary to
create the rule.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Peter Werner
wrote:

> The rules for crit do not state so, nor does the general section on
> road racing appear to apply here either. The Chief Ref could choose to
> limit equipment exchanged to that which is already in the pit at the start
> of the race, negating running off to get a wheel while leaving one's bike
> in the pit. In addition, the CR can state all repairs must happen in the
> pit, thus eliminating the swap of a wheel while en route to the pit or from
> outside the pit. Two sentences from the CR should pre-resolve it.
>
> Also, based on the current wording, the rider could present themselves to
> the Pit Ref, leave their bike to retrieve the part, then return and they
> would not have violated any rule...same for a part hand-up. As long as the
> mishap/mechanical qualifies, their is no rule barring this behavior.
>
> These would be excellent additions to the rules.
>
> Peter
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:23:15 -0700
> From: mahilbrandt@gmail.com
> To: cmurray@obra.org
> CC: obra_officials@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
>
> It also does not mention getting support from those outside of the pit -
> say a rider gets a flat goes to the pit and has no wheel. Can a spectator
> had them their wheel or bike to continue?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
>
> So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the
> rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only
> has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to
> do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize
> this.
>
> Candi
>
>
>
> *From:* Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
> *To:* Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
>
>
> Hi Candi (and other officials),
>
>
>
> Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read
> through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives
> specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels
> in the pit.
>
>
>
> At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated
> that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the
> associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual
> rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit
> and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.
>
>
>
> I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an
> instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state
> it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the
> rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we
> are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
>
>
>
> Dave
> ------------------------------
>
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
> Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
> Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.
>
> If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go
> their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.
>
> I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly
> for all riders.
>
> C
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing
> list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing
> list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>

ro..@hevanet.com

This also ties in with the "assistance from around the course" when I rider
gets a "feed" or water bottle from a supporter.

Ron

> I think these rules need to be revised this winter. The average crit lap
> takes 60-90 seconds. If a rider gets a flat on the far side of a course,
> there is no way that they can safely travel 4 blocks in cycling shoes and
> change a wheel (or two) in 60-90 seconds. If the rule was followed to the
> letter, most everyone would be be a lap down once they get back into the
> race
>
> It seems that the rules should read that riders with a mishap will report
> directly to the pit as quickly as possible, and then be allowed 1 lap to
> make repairs with equipment placed in the pit prior to the beginning of the
> race.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
>
> > So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says
th> e
> > rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he
on> ly
> > has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere
> to
> > do the repairs and then report. All CR���s should be clear and
emp> hasize
> > this.
> >
> > Candi
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
> > *To:* Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Candi (and other officials),
> >
> >
> >
> > Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read
> > through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives
> > specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels
> > in the pit.
> >
> >
> >
> > At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated
> > that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the
> > associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual
> > rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the
p> it
> > and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get
equipment> ..
> >
> >
> >
> > I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an
> > instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't
sta> te
> > it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps,
th> e
> > rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that
> we
> > are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
> > Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
> >
> > Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.
> >
> > If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go
> > their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.
> >
> > I understand the need to be ���nice��� but we need to
enforce> the rules fairly
> > for all riders.
> >
> > C
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing
> > list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA_Officials mailing list
> > OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >
> >
>

Dirk

Both of these occurred at the st honre crit where a rider was given a wheel from a spectator and a rider went into upper echelon and got a spare wheel.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 22, 2014, at 14:32, "Mike Hilbrandt" wrote:
>
> It also does not mention getting support from those outside of the pit - say a rider gets a flat goes to the pit and has no wheel. Can a spectator had them their wheel or bike to continue?
>
>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
>> So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize this.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
>> To: Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
>> Subject: RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Candi (and other officials),
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels in the pit.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> From: cmurray@obra.org
>> To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
>> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
>> Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>>
>> Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.
>>
>> If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.
>>
>> I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly for all riders.
>>
>> C
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Steven Beardsley

I think these rules need to be revised this winter. The average crit lap
takes 60-90 seconds. If a rider gets a flat on the far side of a course,
there is no way that they can safely travel 4 blocks in cycling shoes and
change a wheel (or two) in 60-90 seconds. If the rule was followed to the
letter, most everyone would be be a lap down once they get back into the
race

It seems that the rules should read that riders with a mishap will report
directly to the pit as quickly as possible, and then be allowed 1 lap to
make repairs with equipment placed in the pit prior to the beginning of the
race.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

> So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the
> rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only
> has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to
> do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize
> this.
>
> Candi
>
>
>
> *From:* Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
> *To:* Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
>
>
> Hi Candi (and other officials),
>
>
>
> Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read
> through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives
> specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels
> in the pit.
>
>
>
> At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated
> that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the
> associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual
> rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit
> and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.
>
>
>
> I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an
> instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state
> it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the
> rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we
> are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
>
>
>
> Dave
> ------------------------------
>
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
> Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
> Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.
>
> If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go
> their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.
>
> I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly
> for all riders.
>
> C
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing
> list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Richard Rosko

I would think as long as the rider stays in the pit anyone could grab
anything for him, right?

Rich Rosko

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Mike Hilbrandt
wrote:

> It also does not mention getting support from those outside of the pit -
> say a rider gets a flat goes to the pit and has no wheel. Can a spectator
> had them their wheel or bike to continue?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
>
>> So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says
>> the rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he
>> only has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go
>> elsewhere to do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and
>> emphasize this.
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
>> *To:* Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
>> *Subject:* RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Candi (and other officials),
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read
>> through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives
>> specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels
>> in the pit.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated
>> that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the
>> associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual
>> rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit
>> and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an
>> instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state
>> it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the
>> rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we
>> are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> From: cmurray@obra.org
>> To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
>> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
>> Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>>
>> Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.
>>
>> If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go
>> their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.
>>
>> I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules
>> fairly for all riders.
>>
>> C
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing
>> list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Jordan Staples

I know in the past I have allowed racers in both cross and crits to leave the pit once I have deemed the it to be a legitimate failure to get spare equipment then come back for the actual change of faulty equipment.

Jordan Staples
Mill Direct Lumber Sales

> On Jul 22, 2014, at 1:57 PM, "Candi Murray" wrote:
>
> So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize this.
> Candi
>
> From: Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
> To: Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
> Hi Candi (and other officials),
>
> Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels in the pit.
>
> At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.
>
> I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
>
> Dave
>
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
> Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
> Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.
> If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.
> I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly for all riders.
> C
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Mike Hilbrandt

It also does not mention getting support from those outside of the pit -
say a rider gets a flat goes to the pit and has no wheel. Can a spectator
had them their wheel or bike to continue?

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

> So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the
> rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only
> has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to
> do the repairs and then report. All CR’s should be clear and emphasize
> this.
>
> Candi
>
>
>
> *From:* Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
> *To:* Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
>
>
> Hi Candi (and other officials),
>
>
>
> Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read
> through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives
> specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels
> in the pit.
>
>
>
> At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated
> that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the
> associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual
> rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit
> and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.
>
>
>
> I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an
> instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state
> it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the
> rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we
> are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
>
>
>
> Dave
> ------------------------------
>
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
> Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits
>
> Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.
>
> If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go
> their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.
>
> I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly
> for all riders.
>
> C
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing
> list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Candi Murray

So maybe we need to rewrite this one also. In 15.4.6 section C it says the
rider will report to the pit with his bicycle for inspection. Since he only
has 1 lap to repair it, it should be a given that he cannot go elsewhere to
do the repairs and then report. All CR's should be clear and emphasize
this.

Candi

From: Dave Roth [mailto:davemroth@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:42 PM
To: Candi Murray; obra_officials@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

Hi Candi (and other officials),

Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read
through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives
specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels in
the pit.

At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated
that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the
associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual
rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit
and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.

I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an
instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state
it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the
rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we
are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.

Dave

_____

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.

If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their
cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.

I understand the need to be 'nice' but we need to enforce the rules fairly
for all riders.

C

_______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Dave Roth

Hi Candi (and other officials),
Can you point specifically to the rule that states this? I've just read through the Criterium section (15.4). The free laps rule (15.4.6) gives specific guidelines, but doesn't say anything about having to have wheels in the pit.
At the Pringle Creek Crit, in my race instructions, I very clearly stated that all equipment changes/repairs had to happen in the pit, plus all the associated course direction, how many laps, etc... stuff. But the actual rule doesn't state that equipment changes/repairs have to happen in the pit and that riders can't go to their car or into a business to get equipment.
I think we need to be clear about this rule. If this is given as an instruction before the race, then it can be enforced, but if we don't state it, as long as the rider doesn't take more than the allowed free laps, the rules don't state that they can't do this. I just want to make sure that we are clear on this issue and what the rule book states about it.
Dave

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: obra_officials@list.obra.org
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:30:42 -0700
Subject: [OBRA Officials] Crit season- Pits

Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.I understand the need to be ‘nice’ but we need to enforce the rules fairly for all riders.C
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Candi Murray

Just a reminder for people to review the rules for pits in criteriums.

If a rider does not have wheels in the pit they are not eligible to go their
cars or the nearby businesses to get wheels.

I understand the need to be 'nice' but we need to enforce the rules fairly
for all riders.

C