OBRA petition--Final installment

Jim Anderson

2000-08-21

2) It will be at the discretion of the promoter whether cash prizes are

   offered in each category, or whether categories with low numbers are

   combined, with cash prizes offered to only to those who place in the

   combined category.



What is the need for CASH prizes in masters categories? theres usually

hardly enough cash to go around in local races here and most is kept for

any sort of profit. This is different of course if you have cash

sponsors. And would the cash sponsor rather support masters categories

or possibly the pro-1-2 races?



to demand any more cash in any categories, especially masters is very

tough.







--Jim



"Candace Bonner, M.D. 67 3158" wrote:

 

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    Final installment (funeral episode) in the saga of the OBRA petition for

    equivalent treatment of men and women---sorry to take so long, but I

    have been email incapacitated for 3 weeks or so.



    Mike, Jon and Jim are correct-I am the wrong person to be bringing this

    up.   Someone with more experience-Pam are you interested?-in both

    racing and promoting is needed to get this right. (For those who no

    longer have the faintest idea what the petition says, it is printed at

    the end of this. I also forwarded Mike and Jon's criticisms for those

    who have long since forgotten what they said.) Before signing off,

    however, I would like to set the record straight. After the Jack Frost

    time trial at the beginning of the season, I foolishly agreed to draw up

    a petition requesting women be offered the same categories in each race

    as men. The idea was to open people's eyes to the fact women are not

    treated comparably to men in cycle racing in Oregon, even though they

    are in most other post-collegiate sports, and to start thinking

    creatively about how to remedy that situation without creating logistic

    or financial stress for race promoters. Instead it has resulted in

    vehement defense of the status quo. I tried to revise the original

    reviled petition to encompass the concerns expressed, but in the

    interest of keeping it simple did not put into the text all the issues

    we discussed and agreed upon in the last round of emails. Most of

    Mike's criticisms are about those issues---we agreed already that it

    would not be logistically feasible to have separate starts for small

    groups, and I asked whether smaller groups couldn't be combined to race

    together yet be scored separately. Promoters also could state how many

    racers were needed for a category, below which number categories would

    be combined. We agreed that men's entrance fees could not be expected to

    subsidize women's prizes, but women could still be given equal

    opportunity to compete for place. Interestingly, everyone seemed to

    agree that it would be pretty much painless to have equal men and

    women's categories for time trials (and maybe it would ONLY work for

    time trials)---but if would be painless, why didn't that just happen

    long ago, before the women got pissed and decided to petition? And I

    still don't understand, when Masters women earn BAR points in an event

    that offers several categories for Men, but just "Women" for women, why

    they can't have the option to have their BAR points counted toward the

    Masters BAR.



    Jon and Mike make the point that for a 35-year-old woman, there is

    plenty of opportunity and choice in racing categories, and I agree. I

    also agree that there is lots of opportunity for the elite racers of

    both sexes. However, if we want to keep the larger numbers of citizen

    racers showing up, and we want to attract new women to the sport, we

    need to treat women equally to men. For the man of 40 or 45 or 50 there

    is plenty of opportunity to genuinely compete against peers. That is not

    true for the women as they get older. If bicycle racing is not fun

    anymore, the women will drop out. And the few exceptional athletes

    aside, it is not fun to only compete against racers a decade or two or

    three younger. Same goes for new racers having to compete against the

    full range of experienced women racers lumped into one category. So, if

    no one has noticed, there is a high drop out rate for women in bicycle

    racing. It is silly to expect lots of women to show up if someone

    suddenly adds equivalent categories for women and men in one event---if

    one cannot count on equivalent categories being available, the women do

    not keep training to race "just in case," they simply drop out of the

    sport. Even so, when equivalent categories are offered, as witness the

    recent State time trials, more women show up for those categories.

    Seven women over 50 signed up---I haven't seen that many at a race since

    the World Masters---and every one of them said she would not have

    entered if there were not women's categories for 50 and up. The 40-49

    field was also quite robust. Real changes in women's numbers, however,

    would be expected to happen over the next 5-10 years, not on a race by

    race basis. Committing to a reasonable effort to offer equivalent

    categories will help keep the woman racers currently in their late

    thirties and early forties involved in the sport as they get older. I

    don't believe cycle racing will attract new women unless it can also

    hold on to women already involved. So if after a race you ask, "Where

    were all the women?" the answer is: running, swimming, doing triathlons,

    and having fun elsewhere.



     The population is getting older, the baby boomers are late 40s through

    50s, the elite racers form the exciting leading edge of the sport, but

    big Masters fields help provide the broader financial base to support

    the more elite. It really is in the long-term interest of promoters to

    include the women in this financial base. And I don't think having or

    not having "special events" for women or men is the issue; the issue is

    whether women are offered the same opportunities as men in an event that

    includes both. So, signing off, I still believe a woman's race fee

    should get her the same opportunity as her male counterpart to race

    against peers and earn BAR points---within reason.

    Thanks to all who took the time to participate in this discussion, and

    much thanks to all who offered support! And remember, there are not

    really two sides in this discussion but just one-all of us want to keep

    bicycle racing alive and well in Oregon.

    Petition was pronounced dead at 6PM Sunday August 20, 2000.

    The end.

    Mahalo, a hui hou



    OBRA petition, version #3 is below:



    We the undersigned would like to encourage OBRA to continue to work

    towards equal opportunity for both men and women, both older and

    younger, in bicycle racing in Oregon, by adopting the following

    guidelines:

    1) Promoters are encouraged to offer equivalent racing categories to men

    and women for all OBRA sanctioned events. Men only or Women only events

    are excepted.

    2) It will be at the discretion of the promoter whether cash prizes are

    offered in each category, or whether categories with low numbers are

    combined, with cash prizes offered to only to those who place in the

    combined category.

    3) It will be at the discretion of the promoter whether categories with

    small numbers are combined for mass starts, ETC.

    4) Equivalent categories for men and women will be maintained for

    determination of ribbon awards and BAR points.











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Jim Anderson

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Candace Bonner, M.D. 67 3158

2000-08-21

   Final installment (funeral episode) in the saga of the OBRA petition for

   equivalent treatment of men and women---sorry to take so long, but I

   have been email incapacitated for 3 weeks or so.

   

   Mike, Jon and Jim are correct-I am the wrong person to be bringing this

   up.   Someone with more experience-Pam are you interested?-in both

   racing and promoting is needed to get this right. (For those who no

   longer have the faintest idea what the petition says, it is printed at

   the end of this. I also forwarded Mike and Jon's criticisms for those

   who have long since forgotten what they said.) Before signing off,

   however, I would like to set the record straight. After the Jack Frost

   time trial at the beginning of the season, I foolishly agreed to draw up

   a petition requesting women be offered the same categories in each race

   as men. The idea was to open people's eyes to the fact women are not

   treated comparably to men in cycle racing in Oregon, even though they

   are in most other post-collegiate sports, and to start thinking

   creatively about how to remedy that situation without creating logistic

   or financial stress for race promoters. Instead it has resulted in

   vehement defense of the status quo. I tried to revise the original

   reviled petition to encompass the concerns expressed, but in the

   interest of keeping it simple did not put into the text all the issues

   we discussed and agreed upon in the last round of emails. Most of

   Mike's criticisms are about those issues---we agreed already that it

   would not be logistically feasible to have separate starts for small

   groups, and I asked whether smaller groups couldn't be combined to race

   together yet be scored separately. Promoters also could state how many

   racers were needed for a category, below which number categories would

   be combined. We agreed that men's entrance fees could not be expected to

   subsidize women's prizes, but women could still be given equal

   opportunity to compete for place. Interestingly, everyone seemed to

   agree that it would be pretty much painless to have equal men and

   women's categories for time trials (and maybe it would ONLY work for

   time trials)---but if would be painless, why didn't that just happen

   long ago, before the women got pissed and decided to petition? And I

   still don't understand, when Masters women earn BAR points in an event

   that offers several categories for Men, but just "Women" for women, why

   they can't have the option to have their BAR points counted toward the

   Masters BAR.

   

   Jon and Mike make the point that for a 35-year-old woman, there is

   plenty of opportunity and choice in racing categories, and I agree. I

   also agree that there is lots of opportunity for the elite racers of

   both sexes. However, if we want to keep the larger numbers of citizen

   racers showing up, and we want to attract new women to the sport, we

   need to treat women equally to men. For the man of 40 or 45 or 50 there

   is plenty of opportunity to genuinely compete against peers. That is not

   true for the women as they get older. If bicycle racing is not fun

   anymore, the women will drop out. And the few exceptional athletes

   aside, it is not fun to only compete against racers a decade or two or

   three younger. Same goes for new racers having to compete against the

   full range of experienced women racers lumped into one category. So, if

   no one has noticed, there is a high drop out rate for women in bicycle

   racing. It is silly to expect lots of women to show up if someone

   suddenly adds equivalent categories for women and men in one event---if

   one cannot count on equivalent categories being available, the women do

   not keep training to race "just in case," they simply drop out of the

   sport. Even so, when equivalent categories are offered, as witness the

   recent State time trials, more women show up for those categories.

   Seven women over 50 signed up---I haven't seen that many at a race since

   the World Masters---and every one of them said she would not have

   entered if there were not women's categories for 50 and up. The 40-49

   field was also quite robust. Real changes in women's numbers, however,

   would be expected to happen over the next 5-10 years, not on a race by

   race basis. Committing to a reasonable effort to offer equivalent

   categories will help keep the woman racers currently in their late

   thirties and early forties involved in the sport as they get older. I

   don't believe cycle racing will attract new women unless it can also

   hold on to women already involved. So if after a race you ask, "Where

   were all the women?" the answer is: running, swimming, doing triathlons,

   and having fun elsewhere.

   

    The population is getting older, the baby boomers are late 40s through

   50s, the elite racers form the exciting leading edge of the sport, but

   big Masters fields help provide the broader financial base to support

   the more elite. It really is in the long-term interest of promoters to

   include the women in this financial base. And I don't think having or

   not having "special events" for women or men is the issue; the issue is

   whether women are offered the same opportunities as men in an event that

   includes both. So, signing off, I still believe a woman's race fee

   should get her the same opportunity as her male counterpart to race

   against peers and earn BAR points---within reason.

   Thanks to all who took the time to participate in this discussion, and

   much thanks to all who offered support! And remember, there are not

   really two sides in this discussion but just one-all of us want to keep

   bicycle racing alive and well in Oregon.

   Petition was pronounced dead at 6PM Sunday August 20, 2000.

   The end.

   Mahalo, a hui hou

   

   OBRA petition, version #3 is below:

   

   We the undersigned would like to encourage OBRA to continue to work

   towards equal opportunity for both men and women, both older and

   younger, in bicycle racing in Oregon, by adopting the following

   guidelines:

   1) Promoters are encouraged to offer equivalent racing categories to men

   and women for all OBRA sanctioned events. Men only or Women only events

   are excepted.

   2) It will be at the discretion of the promoter whether cash prizes are

   offered in each category, or whether categories with low numbers are

   combined, with cash prizes offered to only to those who place in the

   combined category.

   3) It will be at the discretion of the promoter whether categories with

   small numbers are combined for mass starts, ETC.

   4) Equivalent categories for men and women will be maintained for

   determination of ribbon awards and BAR points.