Mike Murray

The OBRA rules regarding lapped riders in a criterium are:

15.4.3 Lapped riders
The Chief Referee may remove lapped riders from the race. If
lapped riders are allowed to finish, they will finish on the same lap
as the leader. Lapped riders may not interfere with the final sprint.
Lapped riders will be placed after those who completed the entire
distance according to the number of laps down.
15.4.4 Riders out of contention
The Chief Referee may remove any rider out of contention.
15.4.5 Rider collusion
Riders on different laps may work together, but no rider may drop
back to help another rider.

Generally the CR will make the decision regarding whether to pull lapped riders based on the size of the field, technical difficulty of the course and the experience of the riders. A large field of less experienced riders on a short course which has a descent and several turns, like the Franz Crit, will likely have lapped riders pulled. This information will of necessity be delivered at the line as the size of the field is not really known until registration has been closed. At the Franz some fields had lapped riders pulled and some did not. As you can see from the rules even if lapped riders are left in a rider clearly out of contention may be pulled. This is a good idea as it is not unusual for a rider to meet the entry criteria but still be unable to maintain the pace and who will be obstructing the race. This happened at the recent Gresham Crit were in one field there was a rider who was being lapped every 2-3 laps.

I should point out that there were riders either pulled or who removed themselves in nearly every field. In fact, as a counter point to the pandering to the elite allegation, the most DNFs occurred in the elite field. Mike H should not categorize himself as a DNF. Although it is not specifically stated in the rules, lapped riders should be placed according to the order in which they were pulled. In the stage race rules there is a formula for calculating the time down for riders lapped and not allowed to continue in a criterium. Unfortunately I do not see a Mike H in the results. The results also do not include information on laps down, which should be there and I am sure are there in the race notes. Given this it is difficult to tell how many riders were pulled, how many quit and if they were Cat 4 or Cat 5. My guess is that there were many Cat 4s pulled.

There were also "unnaturally fast" riders in every field. The nature of the deal is that some courses suit some riders and some suit others making some riders appear out of class fast on given courses in every field. The system for assigning ability categories is also fairly inexact, especially with regards to Cat 4 and 5. A rider can complete 11 racers finishing last in all and qualify for an upgrade. Conversely, a rider might be blistering fast and strong but only competes in 2-3 races per year and never accumulates points to upgrade. A more accurate and objective ability grading system would be great but to date no one has described one. FWIW, in contrast to a certain national bike racing organization, OBRA upgrades are applied in a pretty strict objective fashion and riders are only allowed to race in the appropriate field. A few sneak through but if there actually was a Cat 3 rider in the Cat 4/5 field it will generally be noted and that rider will be penalized, often with suspension.

It might be great if there could be a separate race for every different category divided such that field sizes were small and everyone could be allowed to ride until they finished. Personally I would like to see a separate field for 60+ guys under 5'6" who weigh over 150 and who have had bypass surgery. I could clean up! The reality is that there is limited time in the day. Race organizers make field divisions based on what they perceive their needs to be. Sometimes it will be based on the number of race entries it will likely attract but more often it is based on historical practice, interests of the sponsors, desire to support specific groups, etc. Organizers routinely offer races for fields that are predictably going to be small.

One thing about bike racing; in contrast running, triathlon and most other sports, road racing (and even more so track racing) is about remaining competitive in the field and less about completing the distance. This is mostly because aerodynamics gives such an advantage to the pack. Once out of the protection of the pack the rider that was unable to maintain pace is now faced with even greater required work. Absent a mishap, it is very unlikely that a rider that has fallen significantly behind the pack will ever regain the pack and improve his placing making his place at that point pretty much a foregone conclusion. That is the reason why, except for in stage races, you will generally see riders that have lost the pack retire from the race. This is even more apparent in faster category races. Here in OBRA land we have gone out of our way to try to make everything as participatory as possible and to include the greatest number of potential racers. In the end, however, it is bike racing and it is competitive and not strictly participatory.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of OBRA Brian
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 08:08
To: Mike H.; OBRA List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Question regarding Franz Crit Men's 4/5 riders being pulled.

Hi Mike,

I appreciate your thoughts. It was a very fast race from the gun, and I (cat 4) was also pulled after about 25 minutes of chasing those devils. I have worked at many crits and it would be foolish to leave riders in the race with that large of a pack coming through. I thank the OBRA Chief Ref (also a Mike H.) for making that call.
Note that most of the instances you indicate "OBRA" (which is really all of us), it is actually the Promoter who has the authority to arrange the race as they wish (within reason). With such large fields, I would also have preferred splitting this into two races. But, other than having a lot more potential crash victims, I'm not sure what we had was less safe. In fact, I'm sure the higher speed made it safer. That many bunched together would have been chaos, and perhaps the motivating factor for those at the front to try and whittle it down as quickly as they could.

Best,
Brian List

> On Aug 3, 2014, at 3:07 AM, "Mike H." wrote:
>
> I have a question regarding the decision of the chief (and/or overseeing) OBRA official present at the race today informing us (only once upon the starting line,) that lapped riders and potentially lapped riders would be pulled from the race and the actions taken therein.
>
> Here is my personal dilemma. I registered to compete in Men's Category
> 5. As all of you reading this will know, OBRA chose (as they often
> do,) to combine riders from Category 4 with riders from Category 5.
> This mixture usually works quite well with little problems, however
> today I witnessed no less than half a dozen riders behind me get
> pulled from the race before my having been pulled (and then however
> many in front of me which I had lost count of.)
>
> The default answer to the question I am about to ask would be categorized from those well-meaning under the premise of safety reasoning. Honestly, I find no fault in OBRA looking out for the best interest in it's participants and it's own organization. Safety should always take precedence and that is a sound enough answer. My complaint is something far more superficial and dubitable. I am questioning outright the decision of OBRA to willingly join two separate classes and/or levels of riding ability if a very probable outcome would be one in which slower riders in lesser category's would be forborne in competing for the entire duration of a given race.
>
> My wasted $30 pales in comparison to the ideal of an organization
> wishing to create a more hospitably safe racing situation for all involved. I understand that, as I for one also like to walk away from all of my races with my digits still attached. My expostulation is that OBRA made no effort prior to rider-registration to disclose such information. Neither the event flyer, nor the OBRA-2013 rule book, states anywhere (at least that I have found,) regarding the rights in which organization has reserved in it's choosing of riders being pulled at their discretion. If they did, I feel many involved would have abstained from suiting up (myself including,) or at the very least would have excepted that they would not be allowed to finish the race if they chose to enter. Either way, the decision and ultimately the responsibility would be left purely up to the rider to make and whatever the outcome would be solely theirs to answer to. If anyone here can find me written proof that OBRA reserv es the right to pull lapped or potentially lapped riders at their discretion then I would have nothing more to say, as it would have been my responsibility to seek out such information on my own reconnaissance. As such I have found nothing, and as such I am now questioning it.
>
> For the record, as I walked the sidelines after my being pulled from the race I heard many pulled riders complaining of unnaturally fast riders mixed in with the group, one of which recognized a previous class 3 racer intertwined with Cat 4/5. It seems rather disheartening that this could have been a real possible caliber/type of rider therein that dictated the race for everyone else. Admittedly, I must note I do not have the statistics in front of me, and as such I can only assume that the majority of riders pulled where Category-5.
>
> In closing, please note that despite today's hiccup, I have had
> nothing but awesome experiences with OBRA and the events in which they put on. I am not a member as of yet, and this would have been only my sixth race had I completed it. This should tell you that I know very little about how OBRA events work, and that I am rather new to this game. One thing I can only tell you which you could only believe upon my stating as such is that I am not the slowest, and not by any definition the fastest rider out there. I am a proud individual but humble where it counts and I have my moments of excellent sportsmanship. Due to this I understand that not all races gleam glory on all, and there will always be somebody filling in the last spot, myself including (especially.) Each race good or bad teaches me something remarkable and new. I do however have a complete and utter dislike of not being allowed to finish what I start. Safety or not, this is racing. Racing is rarely safe, which is why liab ility waivers exist. Today felt less about racing, but more about catering to the elite top riders. Feel free to inform me if I am out of line for my feelings on this.
>
> TIA.
>
> Mike H. Cat-5 DNF'er.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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OBRA Brian

Hi Mike,

I appreciate your thoughts. It was a very fast race from the gun, and I (cat 4) was also pulled after about 25 minutes of chasing those devils. I have worked at many crits and it would be foolish to leave riders in the race with that large of a pack coming through. I thank the OBRA Chief Ref (also a Mike H.) for making that call.
Note that most of the instances you indicate "OBRA" (which is really all of us), it is actually the Promoter who has the authority to arrange the race as they wish (within reason). With such large fields, I would also have preferred splitting this into two races. But, other than having a lot more potential crash victims, I'm not sure what we had was less safe. In fact, I'm sure the higher speed made it safer. That many bunched together would have been chaos, and perhaps the motivating factor for those at the front to try and whittle it down as quickly as they could.

Best,
Brian List

> On Aug 3, 2014, at 3:07 AM, "Mike H." wrote:
>
> I have a question regarding the decision of the chief (and/or overseeing) OBRA official present at the race today informing us (only once upon the starting line,) that lapped riders and potentially lapped riders would be pulled from the race and the actions taken therein.
>
> Here is my personal dilemma. I registered to compete in Men's Category 5. As all of you reading this will know, OBRA chose (as they often do,) to combine riders from Category 4 with riders from Category 5. This mixture usually works quite well with little problems, however today I witnessed no less than half a dozen riders behind me get pulled from the race before my having been pulled (and then however many in front of me which I had lost count of.)
>
> The default answer to the question I am about to ask would be categorized from those well-meaning under the premise of safety reasoning. Honestly, I find no fault in OBRA looking out for the best interest in it's participants and it's own organization. Safety should always take precedence and that is a sound enough answer. My complaint is something far more superficial and dubitable. I am questioning outright the decision of OBRA to willingly join two separate classes and/or levels of riding ability if a very probable outcome would be one in which slower riders in lesser category's would be forborne in competing for the entire duration of a given race.
>
> My wasted $30 pales in comparison to the ideal of an organization wishing to create a more hospitably safe racing situation for all involved. I understand that, as I for one also like to walk away from all of my races with my digits still attached. My expostulation is that OBRA made no effort prior to rider-registration to disclose such information. Neither the event flyer, nor the OBRA-2013 rule book, states anywhere (at least that I have found,) regarding the rights in which organization has reserved in it's choosing of riders being pulled at their discretion. If they did, I feel many involved would have abstained from suiting up (myself including,) or at the very least would have excepted that they would not be allowed to finish the race if they chose to enter. Either way, the decision and ultimately the responsibility would be left purely up to the rider to make and whatever the outcome would be solely theirs to answer to. If anyone here can find me written proof that OBRA reserv
> es the right to pull lapped or potentially lapped riders at their discretion then I would have nothing more to say, as it would have been my responsibility to seek out such information on my own reconnaissance. As such I have found nothing, and as such I am now questioning it.
>
> For the record, as I walked the sidelines after my being pulled from the race I heard many pulled riders complaining of unnaturally fast riders mixed in with the group, one of which recognized a previous class 3 racer intertwined with Cat 4/5. It seems rather disheartening that this could have been a real possible caliber/type of rider therein that dictated the race for everyone else. Admittedly, I must note I do not have the statistics in front of me, and as such I can only assume that the majority of riders pulled where Category-5.
>
> In closing, please note that despite today's hiccup, I have had nothing but awesome experiences with OBRA and the events in which they put on. I am not a member as of yet, and this would have been only my sixth race had I completed it. This should tell you that I know very little about how OBRA events work, and that I am rather new to this game. One thing I can only tell you which you could only believe upon my stating as such is that I am not the slowest, and not by any definition the fastest rider out there. I am a proud individual but humble where it counts and I have my moments of excellent sportsmanship. Due to this I understand that not all races gleam glory on all, and there will always be somebody filling in the last spot, myself including (especially.) Each race good or bad teaches me something remarkable and new. I do however have a complete and utter dislike of not being allowed to finish what I start. Safety or not, this is racing. Racing is rarely safe, which is why liab
> ility waivers exist. Today felt less about racing, but more about catering to the elite top riders. Feel free to inform me if I am out of line for my feelings on this.
>
> TIA.
>
> Mike H. Cat-5 DNF'er.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike H.

I have a question regarding the decision of the chief (and/or overseeing) OBRA official present at the race today informing us (only once upon the starting line,) that lapped riders and potentially lapped riders would be pulled from the race and the actions taken therein.

Here is my personal dilemma. I registered to compete in Men's Category 5. As all of you reading this will know, OBRA chose (as they often do,) to combine riders from Category 4 with riders from Category 5. This mixture usually works quite well with little problems, however today I witnessed no less than half a dozen riders behind me get pulled from the race before my having been pulled (and then however many in front of me which I had lost count of.)

The default answer to the question I am about to ask would be categorized from those well-meaning under the premise of safety reasoning. Honestly, I find no fault in OBRA looking out for the best interest in it's participants and it's own organization. Safety should always take precedence and that is a sound enough answer. My complaint is something far more superficial and dubitable. I am questioning outright the decision of OBRA to willingly join two separate classes and/or levels of riding ability if a very probable outcome would be one in which slower riders in lesser category's would be forborne in competing for the entire duration of a given race.

My wasted $30 pales in comparison to the ideal of an organization wishing to create a more hospitably safe racing situation for all involved. I understand that, as I for one also like to walk away from all of my races with my digits still attached. My expostulation is that OBRA made no effort prior to rider-registration to disclose such information. Neither the event flyer, nor the OBRA-2013 rule book, states anywhere (at least that I have found,) regarding the rights in which organization has reserved in it's choosing of riders being pulled at their discretion. If they did, I feel many involved would have abstained from suiting up (myself including,) or at the very least would have excepted that they would not be allowed to finish the race if they chose to enter. Either way, the decision and ultimately the responsibility would be left purely up to the rider to make and whatever the outcome would be solely theirs to answer to. If anyone here can find me written proof that OBRA reserv
es the right to pull lapped or potentially lapped riders at their discretion then I would have nothing more to say, as it would have been my responsibility to seek out such information on my own reconnaissance. As such I have found nothing, and as such I am now questioning it.

For the record, as I walked the sidelines after my being pulled from the race I heard many pulled riders complaining of unnaturally fast riders mixed in with the group, one of which recognized a previous class 3 racer intertwined with Cat 4/5. It seems rather disheartening that this could have been a real possible caliber/type of rider therein that dictated the race for everyone else. Admittedly, I must note I do not have the statistics in front of me, and as such I can only assume that the majority of riders pulled where Category-5.

In closing, please note that despite today's hiccup, I have had nothing but awesome experiences with OBRA and the events in which they put on. I am not a member as of yet, and this would have been only my sixth race had I completed it. This should tell you that I know very little about how OBRA events work, and that I am rather new to this game. One thing I can only tell you which you could only believe upon my stating as such is that I am not the slowest, and not by any definition the fastest rider out there. I am a proud individual but humble where it counts and I have my moments of excellent sportsmanship. Due to this I understand that not all races gleam glory on all, and there will always be somebody filling in the last spot, myself including (especially.) Each race good or bad teaches me something remarkable and new. I do however have a complete and utter dislike of not being allowed to finish what I start. Safety or not, this is racing. Racing is rarely safe, which is why liab
ility waivers exist. Today felt less about racing, but more about catering to the elite top riders. Feel free to inform me if I am out of line for my feelings on this.

TIA.

Mike H. Cat-5 DNF'er.