Mike Ripley

Some thoughts

1. Women are not the offenders....and I have seen a few women pee by the
sides of a car at mtb races...no big deal
This is a result at all events when parking does not include toilets and
the registration and venue is separated by more than 1/4 mile and or just
prior to an event in most cases.

2. Number of toilets (I do 1 per 50 people for mtb and more for road or
running) Expensive and 70-100 per unit, maybe promoters could get some
assistance? Or maybe a price increase is in order to pay for more toilets?
MTB riders are lucky as we can ride 2 miles into a course and run into the
woods.

3. Aging group of male riders, post coffee multiple stops to empty the
bladder or pre-race last trip to have a successful race without the urge to
go while on the bike.

Solution.....Bring an empty water bottle and pee in that in your car just
prior to your race if the bathroom lines are long.
Maybe an OBRA Yellow water bottle, just do not use it as a hand up or in
the neutral feed zone

These could be given out to offenders or sold for a fundraiser for OBRA

Mike

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Seth May wrote:

> How does this proposed rule apply to in-race violations? As an official,
> I've certainly had to pull off the side of the road for a quick pit. Riders
> are often in the same situation during a (road) race. There are some
> realities that we have to deal with. An experienced official would probably
> not blink at most on-road violation (even ones where the riders is coasting
> at the back of the pack, and there are other cars around), it's generally
> just part of the sport. An inexperienced (or even experienced) official
> could certainly be caught out on something like this, especially with the
> repeated emphasis this is getting in our community.
>
> They way you've written this rule give a pretty high degree of flexibility
> in terms of enforcement. I want to make sure that we're clear on
> expectations and implementation of a new rule.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of T. Kenji Sugahara
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 11:25 AM
> To: Steven Beardsley
> Cc: OBRA Officials
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>
> PS. Sorry if I was a little unclear- that's an idea for a rule proposal.
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM, T. Kenji Sugahara
> wrote:
> > Here's my take on it:
> >
> > Public urination and/or defecation:
> >
> > Riders who are caught urinating and/or defecating in public may be
> > subject to penalties including suspension. In general, the chief
> > referee shall take into account the following when imposing a penalty
> > or making a recommendation for a suspension.
> >
> > 1. availability of toilet facilities
> > 2. type of event
> > 3. type of venue
> > 4. presence of the public and/or minors 5. sophistication of the
> > rider 6. location of behavior 7. any extenuating circumstances
> > (medical condition etc) 8. previous violations
> >
> > In any recommendation for suspension, the Chief Referee shall document
> > the above criteria and submit to the Executive Director. The
> > Executive Director shall consider the above criteria in determining
> > the appropriateness and duration of a suspension.
> >
> > Any rider punished for public urination and/or defecation must send a
> > note of apology to the venue owner if appropriate and to the promoter
> > of the event.
> >
> > If the behavior results in a direct loss of a venue e.g. the
> > urination/defecation is cited in a letter denying use of a venue, the
> > Board of Directors may impose any punishment up to a permanent
> > suspension from the organization.
> >
> > Key points- I think any analysis should be fact specific- especially
> > when you move into the domain of suspension. Peeing on the side of a
> > fire station in full view of the general public is a lot different
> > than peeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere. I also think that
> > losing a venue should be tied to permanent suspension but allow the
> > BoD to make that determination. A note to the venue owner should be
> > considered appropriate only if members of the public or venue owners
> > were made aware of the incident.
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Steven Beardsley
> wrote:
> >> It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside
> laws:
> >>
> >> 18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be
> >> observed during participation in any event.
> >>
> >> This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the
> >> interference of personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense,
> >> if "breaking laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was
> >> listed as an example of misconduct under 11.2.2.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that
> >>> are not in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as
> >>> representatives of OBRA and bicyclists in the northwest, should not
> hold our own accountable?
> >>>
> >>> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The
> >>> forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:
> >>>
> >>> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct
> >>> - even if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
> >>>
> >>> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
> >>>
> >>> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view
> >>> of place, perform:
> >>>
> >>> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
> >>>
> >>> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female
> >>> mamma;
> >>>
> >>> C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for
> >>> that purpose.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
> >>> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and
> rules.
> >>> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public
> >>> urination is not against the law.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that
> >>> there are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those
> >>> that would try and use the rules to their advantage.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
> >>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't
> >>>> find the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule
> >>>> 11.2.2 and there is no specific mention of public urination (I did
> >>>> a search on the document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but
> >>>> to no avail). Although we all know it is common sense that it would
> >>>> be considered rider misconduct, I think it prudent to add that as an
> example like the others are listed...
> >>>> Mel
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: "Candi"
> >>>> To: "Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith"
> >>>>
> >>>> Cc: "OBRA Officials"
> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
> >>>>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott
> >>>>
> >>>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one
> >>>> the next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Candi
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Scott Jones
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
> >>>> To: Bryan Smith
> >>>> Cc:
> >>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
> >>>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott Jones
> >>>>
> >>>> Sam Barlow High School
> >>>>
> >>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> >>>>
> >>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
> >>>>
> >>>> Assistant Coach - Football
> >>>>
> >>>> 971.998.2132
> >>>>
> >>>> Go Bruins!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
> >>>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set
> >>>> of pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
> >>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises
> >>>> for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an
> >>>> inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be
> >>>> appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes
> >>>> to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in
> order to make it stop, then so be it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Julia Fudge
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have
> >>>> talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would
> >>>> really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer,
> >>>> but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost
> >>>> venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away
> from losing any number of other venues.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott Jones
> >>>>
> >>>> Sam Barlow High School
> >>>>
> >>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> >>>>
> >>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
> >>>>
> >>>> Assistant Coach - Football
> >>>>
> >>>> 971.998.2132
> >>>>
> >>>> Go Bruins!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
> >>>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was
> >>>> on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself
> >>>> for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports
> >>>> from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility
> instead of the ones provided.
> >>>> For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who
> >>>> are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
> >>>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact
> reason.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we
> >>>> are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My
> >>>> feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly
> >>>> discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Your thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>> Jordan Staples
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kenji Sugahara
> > Executive Director
> > Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> > Phone: 503-278-5550
> > http://www.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>

--
Mike Ripley
Mudslinger Events/Oregon Trail Runs
www.mudslingerevents.com
PO BOX 87
Monroe, OR. 97456
541-225-7946

Mike Murray

During a road race is going to always be a judgment call. Being aware of offending others is the issue.

Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
Sender: "OBRA_Officials"
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:58:55
To: Seth May
Reply-To: kenji@obra.org
Cc: OBRA Officials
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

During road events:

1. are facilities available? nope.
2. type of event- road- history.
3. type of venue- not applicable except at start/finish
4. presence of public/minors- pee when appropriate- not in someone's yard.
5. really doesn't apply during a RR
6. location- again- in the middle of nowhere in the middle of a road
race- unlikely to be an issue.
7. again- wouldn't apply during a RR.
8. rider specific

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Seth May wrote:
> How does this proposed rule apply to in-race violations? As an official, I've certainly had to pull off the side of the road for a quick pit. Riders are often in the same situation during a (road) race. There are some realities that we have to deal with. An experienced official would probably not blink at most on-road violation (even ones where the riders is coasting at the back of the pack, and there are other cars around), it's generally just part of the sport. An inexperienced (or even experienced) official could certainly be caught out on something like this, especially with the repeated emphasis this is getting in our community.
>
> They way you've written this rule give a pretty high degree of flexibility in terms of enforcement. I want to make sure that we're clear on expectations and implementation of a new rule.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of T. Kenji Sugahara
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 11:25 AM
> To: Steven Beardsley
> Cc: OBRA Officials
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>
> PS. Sorry if I was a little unclear- that's an idea for a rule proposal.
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
>> Here's my take on it:
>>
>> Public urination and/or defecation:
>>
>> Riders who are caught urinating and/or defecating in public may be
>> subject to penalties including suspension. In general, the chief
>> referee shall take into account the following when imposing a penalty
>> or making a recommendation for a suspension.
>>
>> 1. availability of toilet facilities
>> 2. type of event
>> 3. type of venue
>> 4. presence of the public and/or minors 5. sophistication of the
>> rider 6. location of behavior 7. any extenuating circumstances
>> (medical condition etc) 8. previous violations
>>
>> In any recommendation for suspension, the Chief Referee shall document
>> the above criteria and submit to the Executive Director. The
>> Executive Director shall consider the above criteria in determining
>> the appropriateness and duration of a suspension.
>>
>> Any rider punished for public urination and/or defecation must send a
>> note of apology to the venue owner if appropriate and to the promoter
>> of the event.
>>
>> If the behavior results in a direct loss of a venue e.g. the
>> urination/defecation is cited in a letter denying use of a venue, the
>> Board of Directors may impose any punishment up to a permanent
>> suspension from the organization.
>>
>> Key points- I think any analysis should be fact specific- especially
>> when you move into the domain of suspension. Peeing on the side of a
>> fire station in full view of the general public is a lot different
>> than peeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere. I also think that
>> losing a venue should be tied to permanent suspension but allow the
>> BoD to make that determination. A note to the venue owner should be
>> considered appropriate only if members of the public or venue owners
>> were made aware of the incident.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>>> It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside laws:
>>>
>>> 18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be
>>> observed during participation in any event.
>>>
>>> This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the
>>> interference of personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense,
>>> if "breaking laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was
>>> listed as an example of misconduct under 11.2.2.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that
>>>> are not in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as
>>>> representatives of OBRA and bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?
>>>>
>>>> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The
>>>> forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:
>>>>
>>>> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct
>>>> - even if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
>>>>
>>>> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
>>>>
>>>> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view
>>>> of place, perform:
>>>>
>>>> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
>>>>
>>>> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female
>>>> mamma;
>>>>
>>>> C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for
>>>> that purpose.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
>>>> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and rules.
>>>> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public
>>>> urination is not against the law.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that
>>>> there are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those
>>>> that would try and use the rules to their advantage.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't
>>>>> find the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule
>>>>> 11.2.2 and there is no specific mention of public urination (I did
>>>>> a search on the document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but
>>>>> to no avail). Although we all know it is common sense that it would
>>>>> be considered rider misconduct, I think it prudent to add that as an example like the others are listed...
>>>>> Mel
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: "Candi"
>>>>> To: "Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith"
>>>>>
>>>>> Cc: "OBRA Officials"
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one
>>>>> the next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Candi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott Jones
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
>>>>> To: Bryan Smith
>>>>> Cc:
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
>>>>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Jones
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>>>
>>>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>>>
>>>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>>>
>>>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>>>
>>>>> 971.998.2132
>>>>>
>>>>> Go Bruins!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set
>>>>> of pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>>>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises
>>>>> for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an
>>>>> inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be
>>>>> appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes
>>>>> to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Julia Fudge
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have
>>>>> talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would
>>>>> really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer,
>>>>> but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost
>>>>> venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Jones
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>>>
>>>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>>>
>>>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>>>
>>>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>>>
>>>>> 971.998.2132
>>>>>
>>>>> Go Bruins!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was
>>>>> on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself
>>>>> for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports
>>>>> from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided.
>>>>> For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who
>>>>> are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
>>>>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we
>>>>> are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My
>>>>> feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly
>>>>> discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jordan Staples
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenji Sugahara
>> Executive Director
>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>> http://www.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

T. Kenji Sugahara

During road events:

1. are facilities available? nope.
2. type of event- road- history.
3. type of venue- not applicable except at start/finish
4. presence of public/minors- pee when appropriate- not in someone's yard.
5. really doesn't apply during a RR
6. location- again- in the middle of nowhere in the middle of a road
race- unlikely to be an issue.
7. again- wouldn't apply during a RR.
8. rider specific

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:28 PM, Seth May wrote:
> How does this proposed rule apply to in-race violations? As an official, I've certainly had to pull off the side of the road for a quick pit. Riders are often in the same situation during a (road) race. There are some realities that we have to deal with. An experienced official would probably not blink at most on-road violation (even ones where the riders is coasting at the back of the pack, and there are other cars around), it's generally just part of the sport. An inexperienced (or even experienced) official could certainly be caught out on something like this, especially with the repeated emphasis this is getting in our community.
>
> They way you've written this rule give a pretty high degree of flexibility in terms of enforcement. I want to make sure that we're clear on expectations and implementation of a new rule.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of T. Kenji Sugahara
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 11:25 AM
> To: Steven Beardsley
> Cc: OBRA Officials
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>
> PS. Sorry if I was a little unclear- that's an idea for a rule proposal.
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
>> Here's my take on it:
>>
>> Public urination and/or defecation:
>>
>> Riders who are caught urinating and/or defecating in public may be
>> subject to penalties including suspension. In general, the chief
>> referee shall take into account the following when imposing a penalty
>> or making a recommendation for a suspension.
>>
>> 1. availability of toilet facilities
>> 2. type of event
>> 3. type of venue
>> 4. presence of the public and/or minors 5. sophistication of the
>> rider 6. location of behavior 7. any extenuating circumstances
>> (medical condition etc) 8. previous violations
>>
>> In any recommendation for suspension, the Chief Referee shall document
>> the above criteria and submit to the Executive Director. The
>> Executive Director shall consider the above criteria in determining
>> the appropriateness and duration of a suspension.
>>
>> Any rider punished for public urination and/or defecation must send a
>> note of apology to the venue owner if appropriate and to the promoter
>> of the event.
>>
>> If the behavior results in a direct loss of a venue e.g. the
>> urination/defecation is cited in a letter denying use of a venue, the
>> Board of Directors may impose any punishment up to a permanent
>> suspension from the organization.
>>
>> Key points- I think any analysis should be fact specific- especially
>> when you move into the domain of suspension. Peeing on the side of a
>> fire station in full view of the general public is a lot different
>> than peeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere. I also think that
>> losing a venue should be tied to permanent suspension but allow the
>> BoD to make that determination. A note to the venue owner should be
>> considered appropriate only if members of the public or venue owners
>> were made aware of the incident.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>>> It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside laws:
>>>
>>> 18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be
>>> observed during participation in any event.
>>>
>>> This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the
>>> interference of personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense,
>>> if "breaking laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was
>>> listed as an example of misconduct under 11.2.2.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that
>>>> are not in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as
>>>> representatives of OBRA and bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?
>>>>
>>>> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The
>>>> forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:
>>>>
>>>> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct
>>>> - even if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
>>>>
>>>> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
>>>>
>>>> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view
>>>> of place, perform:
>>>>
>>>> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
>>>>
>>>> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female
>>>> mamma;
>>>>
>>>> C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for
>>>> that purpose.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
>>>> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and rules.
>>>> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public
>>>> urination is not against the law.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that
>>>> there are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those
>>>> that would try and use the rules to their advantage.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't
>>>>> find the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule
>>>>> 11.2.2 and there is no specific mention of public urination (I did
>>>>> a search on the document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but
>>>>> to no avail). Although we all know it is common sense that it would
>>>>> be considered rider misconduct, I think it prudent to add that as an example like the others are listed...
>>>>> Mel
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: "Candi"
>>>>> To: "Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith"
>>>>>
>>>>> Cc: "OBRA Officials"
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one
>>>>> the next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Candi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Scott Jones
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
>>>>> To: Bryan Smith
>>>>> Cc:
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
>>>>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Jones
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>>>
>>>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>>>
>>>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>>>
>>>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>>>
>>>>> 971.998.2132
>>>>>
>>>>> Go Bruins!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set
>>>>> of pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>>>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises
>>>>> for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an
>>>>> inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be
>>>>> appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes
>>>>> to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Julia Fudge
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have
>>>>> talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would
>>>>> really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer,
>>>>> but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost
>>>>> venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Jones
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>>>
>>>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>>>
>>>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>>>
>>>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>>>
>>>>> 971.998.2132
>>>>>
>>>>> Go Bruins!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was
>>>>> on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself
>>>>> for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports
>>>>> from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided.
>>>>> For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who
>>>>> are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
>>>>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we
>>>>> are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My
>>>>> feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly
>>>>> discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jordan Staples
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenji Sugahara
>> Executive Director
>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>> http://www.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Seth May

How does this proposed rule apply to in-race violations? As an official, I've certainly had to pull off the side of the road for a quick pit. Riders are often in the same situation during a (road) race. There are some realities that we have to deal with. An experienced official would probably not blink at most on-road violation (even ones where the riders is coasting at the back of the pack, and there are other cars around), it's generally just part of the sport. An inexperienced (or even experienced) official could certainly be caught out on something like this, especially with the repeated emphasis this is getting in our community.

They way you've written this rule give a pretty high degree of flexibility in terms of enforcement. I want to make sure that we're clear on expectations and implementation of a new rule.

Thanks
Seth

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of T. Kenji Sugahara
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 11:25 AM
To: Steven Beardsley
Cc: OBRA Officials
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

PS. Sorry if I was a little unclear- that's an idea for a rule proposal.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
> Here's my take on it:
>
> Public urination and/or defecation:
>
> Riders who are caught urinating and/or defecating in public may be
> subject to penalties including suspension. In general, the chief
> referee shall take into account the following when imposing a penalty
> or making a recommendation for a suspension.
>
> 1. availability of toilet facilities
> 2. type of event
> 3. type of venue
> 4. presence of the public and/or minors 5. sophistication of the
> rider 6. location of behavior 7. any extenuating circumstances
> (medical condition etc) 8. previous violations
>
> In any recommendation for suspension, the Chief Referee shall document
> the above criteria and submit to the Executive Director. The
> Executive Director shall consider the above criteria in determining
> the appropriateness and duration of a suspension.
>
> Any rider punished for public urination and/or defecation must send a
> note of apology to the venue owner if appropriate and to the promoter
> of the event.
>
> If the behavior results in a direct loss of a venue e.g. the
> urination/defecation is cited in a letter denying use of a venue, the
> Board of Directors may impose any punishment up to a permanent
> suspension from the organization.
>
> Key points- I think any analysis should be fact specific- especially
> when you move into the domain of suspension. Peeing on the side of a
> fire station in full view of the general public is a lot different
> than peeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere. I also think that
> losing a venue should be tied to permanent suspension but allow the
> BoD to make that determination. A note to the venue owner should be
> considered appropriate only if members of the public or venue owners
> were made aware of the incident.
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>> It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside laws:
>>
>> 18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be
>> observed during participation in any event.
>>
>> This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the
>> interference of personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense,
>> if "breaking laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was
>> listed as an example of misconduct under 11.2.2.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt
>>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that
>>> are not in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as
>>> representatives of OBRA and bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?
>>>
>>> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The
>>> forms of misconduct include, but are not limited to:
>>>
>>> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct
>>> - even if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
>>>
>>> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
>>>
>>> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view
>>> of place, perform:
>>>
>>> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
>>>
>>> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female
>>> mamma;
>>>
>>> C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for
>>> that purpose.
>>>
>>>
>>> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
>>> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and rules.
>>> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public
>>> urination is not against the law.
>>>
>>>
>>> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that
>>> there are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those
>>> that would try and use the rules to their advantage.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't
>>>> find the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule
>>>> 11.2.2 and there is no specific mention of public urination (I did
>>>> a search on the document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but
>>>> to no avail). Although we all know it is common sense that it would
>>>> be considered rider misconduct, I think it prudent to add that as an example like the others are listed...
>>>> Mel
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: "Candi"
>>>> To: "Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith"
>>>>
>>>> Cc: "OBRA Officials"
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one
>>>> the next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Candi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Scott Jones
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
>>>> To: Bryan Smith
>>>> Cc:
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
>>>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scott Jones
>>>>
>>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>>
>>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>>
>>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>>
>>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>>
>>>> 971.998.2132
>>>>
>>>> Go Bruins!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set
>>>> of pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises
>>>> for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an
>>>> inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be
>>>> appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes
>>>> to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Julia Fudge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have
>>>> talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would
>>>> really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer,
>>>> but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost
>>>> venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scott Jones
>>>>
>>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>>
>>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>>
>>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>>
>>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>>
>>>> 971.998.2132
>>>>
>>>> Go Bruins!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was
>>>> on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself
>>>> for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports
>>>> from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided.
>>>> For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who
>>>> are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
>>>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we
>>>> are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My
>>>> feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly
>>>> discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Jordan Staples
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Chaz Donaldson

We'll just call him Johnny P from now on.

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 13:27, Mike Ripley wrote:
>
> I know for certain events like MTb riders have an official bush stop waitin to stage and this is remote and no public per say are around
> But the part about banning sexual intercourse with consenting individuals needs to be allowed
> Lol and thanks for addressing this
>
>> On Monday, September 15, 2014, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
>> PS. Sorry if I was a little unclear- that's an idea for a rule proposal.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
>> > Here's my take on it:
>> >
>> > Public urination and/or defecation:
>> >
>> > Riders who are caught urinating and/or defecating in public may be
>> > subject to penalties including suspension. In general, the chief
>> > referee shall take into account the following when imposing a penalty
>> > or making a recommendation for a suspension.
>> >
>> > 1. availability of toilet facilities
>> > 2. type of event
>> > 3. type of venue
>> > 4. presence of the public and/or minors
>> > 5. sophistication of the rider
>> > 6. location of behavior
>> > 7. any extenuating circumstances (medical condition etc)
>> > 8. previous violations
>> >
>> > In any recommendation for suspension, the Chief Referee shall document
>> > the above criteria and submit to the Executive Director. The
>> > Executive Director shall consider the above criteria in determining
>> > the appropriateness and duration of a suspension.
>> >
>> > Any rider punished for public urination and/or defecation must send a
>> > note of apology to the venue owner if appropriate and to the promoter
>> > of the event.
>> >
>> > If the behavior results in a direct loss of a venue e.g. the
>> > urination/defecation is cited in a letter denying use of a venue, the
>> > Board of Directors may impose any punishment up to a permanent
>> > suspension from the organization.
>> >
>> > Key points- I think any analysis should be fact specific- especially
>> > when you move into the domain of suspension. Peeing on the side of a
>> > fire station in full view of the general public is a lot different
>> > than peeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere. I also think that
>> > losing a venue should be tied to permanent suspension but allow the
>> > BoD to make that determination. A note to the venue owner should be
>> > considered appropriate only if members of the public or venue owners
>> > were made aware of the incident.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>> >> It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside laws:
>> >>
>> >> 18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be observed
>> >> during participation in any event.
>> >>
>> >> This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the interference of
>> >> personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense, if "breaking laws and
>> >> ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was listed as an example of
>> >> misconduct under 11.2.2.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that are not
>> >>> in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as representatives of OBRA and
>> >>> bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?
>> >>>
>> >>> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The forms of
>> >>> misconduct include, but are not limited to:
>> >>>
>> >>> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct - even
>> >>> if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
>> >>>
>> >>> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
>> >>>
>> >>> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view of
>> >>> place, perform:
>> >>>
>> >>> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
>> >>>
>> >>> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female mamma;
>> >>>
>> >>> C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for that
>> >>> purpose.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
>> >>> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and rules.
>> >>> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public urination is
>> >>> not against the law.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that there
>> >>> are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those that would try
>> >>> and use the rules to their advantage.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't find
>> >>>> the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule 11.2.2 and
>> >>>> there is no specific mention of public urination (I did a search on the
>> >>>> document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but to no avail). Although we
>> >>>> all know it is common sense that it would be considered rider misconduct, I
>> >>>> think it prudent to add that as an example like the others are listed...
>> >>>> Mel
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ________________________________
>> >>>> From: "Candi"
>> >>>> To: "Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cc: "OBRA Officials"
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Scott
>> >>>>
>> >>>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the
>> >>>> next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Candi
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> >>>> Behalf Of Scott Jones
>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
>> >>>> To: Bryan Smith
>> >>>> Cc:
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
>> >>>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Scott Jones
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sam Barlow High School
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 971.998.2132
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Go Bruins!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
>> >>>> pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>> >>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the
>> >>>> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I
>> >>>> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
>> >>>> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
>> >>>> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Julia Fudge
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
>> >>>> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
>> >>>> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
>> >>>> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider
>> >>>> doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Scott Jones
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sam Barlow High School
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 971.998.2132
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Go Bruins!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
>> >>>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
>> >>>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about
>> >>>> these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided.
>> >>>> For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not
>> >>>> in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like
>> >>>> this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
>> >>>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really
>> >>>> a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for
>> >>>> this type of thing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Your thoughts?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jordan Staples
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> >>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> >>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> >> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Kenji Sugahara
>> > Executive Director
>> > Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>> > Phone: 503-278-5550
>> > http://www.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenji Sugahara
>> Executive Director
>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>> http://www.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
> --
> Mike Ripley
> Mudslinger Events/Oregon Trail Runs
> www.mudslingerevents.com
> PO BOX 87
> Monroe, OR. 97456
> 541-225-7946
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Mike Ripley

I know for certain events like MTb riders have an official bush stop waitin
to stage and this is remote and no public per say are around
But the part about banning sexual intercourse with consenting individuals
needs to be allowed
Lol and thanks for addressing this

On Monday, September 15, 2014, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

> PS. Sorry if I was a little unclear- that's an idea for a rule proposal.
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM, T. Kenji Sugahara > wrote:
> > Here's my take on it:
> >
> > Public urination and/or defecation:
> >
> > Riders who are caught urinating and/or defecating in public may be
> > subject to penalties including suspension. In general, the chief
> > referee shall take into account the following when imposing a penalty
> > or making a recommendation for a suspension.
> >
> > 1. availability of toilet facilities
> > 2. type of event
> > 3. type of venue
> > 4. presence of the public and/or minors
> > 5. sophistication of the rider
> > 6. location of behavior
> > 7. any extenuating circumstances (medical condition etc)
> > 8. previous violations
> >
> > In any recommendation for suspension, the Chief Referee shall document
> > the above criteria and submit to the Executive Director. The
> > Executive Director shall consider the above criteria in determining
> > the appropriateness and duration of a suspension.
> >
> > Any rider punished for public urination and/or defecation must send a
> > note of apology to the venue owner if appropriate and to the promoter
> > of the event.
> >
> > If the behavior results in a direct loss of a venue e.g. the
> > urination/defecation is cited in a letter denying use of a venue, the
> > Board of Directors may impose any punishment up to a permanent
> > suspension from the organization.
> >
> > Key points- I think any analysis should be fact specific- especially
> > when you move into the domain of suspension. Peeing on the side of a
> > fire station in full view of the general public is a lot different
> > than peeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere. I also think that
> > losing a venue should be tied to permanent suspension but allow the
> > BoD to make that determination. A note to the venue owner should be
> > considered appropriate only if members of the public or venue owners
> > were made aware of the incident.
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Steven Beardsley > wrote:
> >> It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside
> laws:
> >>
> >> 18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be
> observed
> >> during participation in any event.
> >>
> >> This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the
> interference of
> >> personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense, if "breaking laws
> and
> >> ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was listed as an example of
> >> misconduct under 11.2.2.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that are
> not
> >>> in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as representatives of OBRA
> and
> >>> bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?
> >>>
> >>> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The
> forms of
> >>> misconduct include, but are not limited to:
> >>>
> >>> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct -
> even
> >>> if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
> >>>
> >>> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
> >>>
> >>> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view of
> >>> place, perform:
> >>>
> >>> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
> >>>
> >>> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female
> mamma;
> >>>
> >>> C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for
> that
> >>> purpose.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
> >>> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and
> rules.
> >>> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public
> urination is
> >>> not against the law.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that
> there
> >>> are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those that
> would try
> >>> and use the rules to their advantage.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't find
> >>>> the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule 11.2.2
> and
> >>>> there is no specific mention of public urination (I did a search on
> the
> >>>> document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but to no avail).
> Although we
> >>>> all know it is common sense that it would be considered rider
> misconduct, I
> >>>> think it prudent to add that as an example like the others are
> listed...
> >>>> Mel
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: "Candi" >
> >>>> To: "Scott Jones" >, "Bryan
> Smith"
> >>>> >
> >>>> Cc: "OBRA Officials" >
> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
> >>>>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott
> >>>>
> >>>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the
> >>>> next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Candi
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org
> ] On
> >>>> Behalf Of Scott Jones
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
> >>>> To: Bryan Smith
> >>>> Cc: >
> >>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
> >>>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott Jones
> >>>>
> >>>> Sam Barlow High School
> >>>>
> >>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> >>>>
> >>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
> >>>>
> >>>> Assistant Coach - Football
> >>>>
> >>>> 971.998.2132
> >>>>
> >>>> Go Bruins!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
> >>>> pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
> >>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises
> for the
> >>>> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience
> that I
> >>>> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
> >>>> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
> >>>> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be
> it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Julia Fudge
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
> >>>> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really
> hate to
> >>>> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it
> take to
> >>>> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually
> one rider
> >>>> doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other
> venues.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott Jones
> >>>>
> >>>> Sam Barlow High School
> >>>>
> >>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> >>>>
> >>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
> >>>>
> >>>> Assistant Coach - Football
> >>>>
> >>>> 971.998.2132
> >>>>
> >>>> Go Bruins!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
> >>>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for
> said
> >>>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non
> racers about
> >>>> these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
> provided.
> >>>> For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who
> are not
> >>>> in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something
> like
> >>>> this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
> >>>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
> really
> >>>> a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty
> for
> >>>> this type of thing.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Your thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>> Jordan Staples
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> >> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kenji Sugahara
> > Executive Director
> > Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> > Phone: 503-278-5550
> > http://www.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>

--
Mike Ripley
Mudslinger Events/Oregon Trail Runs
www.mudslingerevents.com
PO BOX 87
Monroe, OR. 97456
541-225-7946

T. Kenji Sugahara

PS. Sorry if I was a little unclear- that's an idea for a rule proposal.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
> Here's my take on it:
>
> Public urination and/or defecation:
>
> Riders who are caught urinating and/or defecating in public may be
> subject to penalties including suspension. In general, the chief
> referee shall take into account the following when imposing a penalty
> or making a recommendation for a suspension.
>
> 1. availability of toilet facilities
> 2. type of event
> 3. type of venue
> 4. presence of the public and/or minors
> 5. sophistication of the rider
> 6. location of behavior
> 7. any extenuating circumstances (medical condition etc)
> 8. previous violations
>
> In any recommendation for suspension, the Chief Referee shall document
> the above criteria and submit to the Executive Director. The
> Executive Director shall consider the above criteria in determining
> the appropriateness and duration of a suspension.
>
> Any rider punished for public urination and/or defecation must send a
> note of apology to the venue owner if appropriate and to the promoter
> of the event.
>
> If the behavior results in a direct loss of a venue e.g. the
> urination/defecation is cited in a letter denying use of a venue, the
> Board of Directors may impose any punishment up to a permanent
> suspension from the organization.
>
> Key points- I think any analysis should be fact specific- especially
> when you move into the domain of suspension. Peeing on the side of a
> fire station in full view of the general public is a lot different
> than peeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere. I also think that
> losing a venue should be tied to permanent suspension but allow the
> BoD to make that determination. A note to the venue owner should be
> considered appropriate only if members of the public or venue owners
> were made aware of the incident.
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>> It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside laws:
>>
>> 18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be observed
>> during participation in any event.
>>
>> This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the interference of
>> personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense, if "breaking laws and
>> ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was listed as an example of
>> misconduct under 11.2.2.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that are not
>>> in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as representatives of OBRA and
>>> bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?
>>>
>>> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The forms of
>>> misconduct include, but are not limited to:
>>>
>>> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct - even
>>> if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
>>>
>>> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
>>>
>>> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view of
>>> place, perform:
>>>
>>> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
>>>
>>> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female mamma;
>>>
>>> C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for that
>>> purpose.
>>>
>>>
>>> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
>>> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and rules.
>>> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public urination is
>>> not against the law.
>>>
>>>
>>> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that there
>>> are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those that would try
>>> and use the rules to their advantage.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't find
>>>> the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule 11.2.2 and
>>>> there is no specific mention of public urination (I did a search on the
>>>> document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but to no avail). Although we
>>>> all know it is common sense that it would be considered rider misconduct, I
>>>> think it prudent to add that as an example like the others are listed...
>>>> Mel
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: "Candi"
>>>> To: "Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith"
>>>>
>>>> Cc: "OBRA Officials"
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the
>>>> next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Candi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Scott Jones
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
>>>> To: Bryan Smith
>>>> Cc:
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
>>>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scott Jones
>>>>
>>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>>
>>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>>
>>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>>
>>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>>
>>>> 971.998.2132
>>>>
>>>> Go Bruins!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
>>>> pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the
>>>> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I
>>>> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
>>>> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
>>>> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Julia Fudge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
>>>> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
>>>> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
>>>> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider
>>>> doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scott Jones
>>>>
>>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>>
>>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>>
>>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>>
>>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>>
>>>> 971.998.2132
>>>>
>>>> Go Bruins!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
>>>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
>>>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about
>>>> these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided.
>>>> For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not
>>>> in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like
>>>> this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
>>>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really
>>>> a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for
>>>> this type of thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Jordan Staples
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

T. Kenji Sugahara

Here's my take on it:

Public urination and/or defecation:

Riders who are caught urinating and/or defecating in public may be
subject to penalties including suspension. In general, the chief
referee shall take into account the following when imposing a penalty
or making a recommendation for a suspension.

1. availability of toilet facilities
2. type of event
3. type of venue
4. presence of the public and/or minors
5. sophistication of the rider
6. location of behavior
7. any extenuating circumstances (medical condition etc)
8. previous violations

In any recommendation for suspension, the Chief Referee shall document
the above criteria and submit to the Executive Director. The
Executive Director shall consider the above criteria in determining
the appropriateness and duration of a suspension.

Any rider punished for public urination and/or defecation must send a
note of apology to the venue owner if appropriate and to the promoter
of the event.

If the behavior results in a direct loss of a venue e.g. the
urination/defecation is cited in a letter denying use of a venue, the
Board of Directors may impose any punishment up to a permanent
suspension from the organization.

Key points- I think any analysis should be fact specific- especially
when you move into the domain of suspension. Peeing on the side of a
fire station in full view of the general public is a lot different
than peeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere. I also think that
losing a venue should be tied to permanent suspension but allow the
BoD to make that determination. A note to the venue owner should be
considered appropriate only if members of the public or venue owners
were made aware of the incident.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
> It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside laws:
>
> 18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be observed
> during participation in any event.
>
> This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the interference of
> personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense, if "breaking laws and
> ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was listed as an example of
> misconduct under 11.2.2.
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt
> wrote:
>>
>> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that are not
>> in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as representatives of OBRA and
>> bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?
>>
>> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The forms of
>> misconduct include, but are not limited to:
>>
>> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct - even
>> if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
>>
>> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
>>
>> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view of
>> place, perform:
>>
>> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
>>
>> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female mamma;
>>
>> C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for that
>> purpose.
>>
>>
>> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
>> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and rules.
>> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public urination is
>> not against the law.
>>
>>
>> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that there
>> are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those that would try
>> and use the rules to their advantage.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't find
>>> the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule 11.2.2 and
>>> there is no specific mention of public urination (I did a search on the
>>> document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but to no avail). Although we
>>> all know it is common sense that it would be considered rider misconduct, I
>>> think it prudent to add that as an example like the others are listed...
>>> Mel
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "Candi"
>>> To: "Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith"
>>>
>>> Cc: "OBRA Officials"
>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the
>>> next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Candi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Scott Jones
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
>>> To: Bryan Smith
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
>>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott Jones
>>>
>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>
>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>
>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>
>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>
>>> 971.998.2132
>>>
>>> Go Bruins!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
>>> pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>>>
>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the
>>> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I
>>> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
>>> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
>>> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Julia Fudge
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
>>> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
>>> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
>>> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider
>>> doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott Jones
>>>
>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>>
>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>>
>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>>
>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>>
>>> 971.998.2132
>>>
>>> Go Bruins!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>>
>>>
>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
>>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
>>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about
>>> these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided.
>>> For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not
>>> in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like
>>> this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
>>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really
>>> a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for
>>> this type of thing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Your thoughts?
>>>
>>> Jordan Staples
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

Michelle Kunec-North

Not sure if I really want to jump into the fray on this one :) but I wanted
to point out that Portland's City Code prohibits urination outside of
bathrooms in public parks, such as PIR:

*20.12.030 Unlawful Urination or Defecation.
*
No person shall urinate or defecate in any park except in a convenience
station designed for that purpose...

There's also an indecent exposure policy which applies more broadly to
public places.

*14A.40.030 Indecent Exposure.*

It is unlawful for any person to expose his or her genitalia while in a
public place or place visible from a public place, if the public place is
open or available to persons of the opposite sex.

Other cities, counties, or public agencies may have similar rules regarding
their facilities or public space in general. I am by no means an expert in
these things, but I think such ordinances should be part of the
conversation.

Michelle Kunec-North

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Peter Werner
wrote:

> While the rules do not state any particular rule regarding urination, a
> specific rule is not necessary; the rules do allow discipline.
>
> 11.2.1 allows a CR to mete out punishment at their discretion.
>
> 11.2 enumerates specific examples of punishable offenses, but also states
> the list includes, but is not limited to, these offenses. Unsportsmanlike
> conduct is listed.
>
> 13.1 allows a rider or club to be suspended for any violation of 11.2. It
> also allows for suspension of for grossly unsportsmanlike conduct.
>
> Given the ongoing discussion of riders urinating where they should not and
> the ever present message, *public urination should be considered
> unsportsmanlike*. There should not be a single OBRA participant that has
> not heard this message. Whether the offense rises to grossly
> unsportsmanlike conduct will depend on context...high school field,
> proximity to outhouses or bathroom, proximity to spectators, etc. OBRA
> likely does not need to define public urination as an offense in the
> rules. If the rider would like to argue, there is an appeal process. If
> the rider verbally attacks the CR, that is another instance of punishable
> misconduct.
>
> The CR clearly has the authority to punish a rider for public urination.
>
> Peter Werner
> 541.410.9251
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: scottjones007@gmail.com; srbeards@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:45:04 -0700
> CC: obra_officials@list.obra.org
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>
> Jeff had it on his flyer.
>
>
>
> *From:* OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, September 15, 2014 8:09 AM
> *To:* Steven Beardsley
> *Cc:* OBRA Officials
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>
>
>
> I think it is sad that we would need to put that on a flyer. If people
> cannot use promoter or venue supplied toilets, then maybe we should add it
> in 11.2.2 and make it a rule, that way it is clear to everyone. Maybe its
> just me, but common sense and courtesy to the promoter and others would
> lead me to believe that you should use a bathroom rather than peeing where
> others can see you.
>
>
>
> Lest we forget we HAVE lost venues due to these actions.
>
>
>
>
> Scott Jones
>
> Sam Barlow High School
>
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>
> Head Coach - Track & Field
>
> Assistant Coach - Football
>
> 971.998.2132
>
> *Go Bruins!*
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:29 AM, Steven Beardsley
> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Just a few notes about the rules.
> First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be
> against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but
> it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from
> ever road race he has ever done.
> Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be
> considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of
> directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the
> rules.
> Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from
> the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed
> out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg
> area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and
> nothing could be done by the officials.
> I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just
> clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these
> rules can be modified at the annual meeting.
> I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole
> rule book.
>
> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>
> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>
> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
> penalty for this type of thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Jordan Staples
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA_Officials mailing
> list OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Steven Beardsley

It is interesting that only the MTB specific rules talk about outside laws:

18.4.2(e) Laws and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions shall be
observed during participation in any event.

This would be made a lot more clear and concise, without the interference
of personal opinion, bias or versions of common sense, if "breaking laws
and ordinances of appropriate jurisdictions" was listed as an example of
misconduct under 11.2.2.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Mike Hilbrandt
wrote:

> I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that are not
> in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as representatives of OBRA and
> bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?
>
> I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The forms of
> misconduct include, *but are not limited to:*
>
> It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct - even
> if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.
>
> http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -
>
> 9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view of
> place, perform:
>
> A. An act of sexual intercourse;
>
> B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female mamma;
>
> *C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for that
> purpose. *
>
> The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is
> irrelevant - you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and rules.
> Besides that, name a state in the United States in which public urination
> is not against the law.
>
>
> Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that there
> are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those that would
> try and use the rules to their advantage.
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
> wrote:
>
>> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't find
>> the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule 11.2.2 and
>> there is *no specific mention of public urination *(I did a search on
>> the document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but to no
>> avail). Although we all know it is common sense that it would be considered
>> rider misconduct, I think it prudent to add that as an example like the
>> others are listed...
>> Mel
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Candi"
>> *To: *"Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith" <
>> mistersmith72@gmail.com>
>> *Cc: *"OBRA Officials"
>> *Sent: *Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the
>> next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Candi
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Scott Jones
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
>> *To:* Bryan Smith
>> *Cc:*
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the
>> people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>>
>>
>> Scott Jones
>>
>> Sam Barlow High School
>>
>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>
>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>
>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>
>> 971.998.2132
>>
>> *Go Bruins!*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
>> wrote:
>>
>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
>> pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>>
>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the
>> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I
>> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
>> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
>> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Julia Fudge
>>
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
>> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
>> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
>> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one
>> rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other
>> venues.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott Jones
>>
>> Sam Barlow High School
>>
>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>
>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>
>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>
>> 971.998.2132
>>
>> *Go Bruins!*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>> wrote:
>>
>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>
>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
>> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
>> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
>> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>
>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
>> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
>> penalty for this type of thing.
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> Jordan Staples
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Mike Murray

Steven is right with regards to the rules. Currently the DQ is under 11.2.2 but that is vague. Since this specific event is so common it should be delineated in the rules. We need to adopt a newly crafted rule before next season.

As for the after the results DQ, that was not the scenario. One DQ was immediately before and the other immediately after the race. What was delayed was putting that info in published results.

Dealing with the issue outside of OBRA rules is an option but I doubt that a call to the police for public urination is going to get much response and if there is a response it likely will not be beneficial.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Beardsley
Sender: OBRA_Officials
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 07:29:24
To: Jordan Staples
Cc: OBRA Officials
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Peter Werner

While the rules do not state any particular rule regarding urination, a specific rule is not necessary; the rules do allow discipline.

11.2.1 allows a CR to mete out punishment at their discretion.

11.2 enumerates specific examples of punishable offenses, but also states the list includes, but is not limited to, these offenses. Unsportsmanlike conduct is listed.

13.1 allows a rider or club to be suspended for any violation of 11.2. It also allows for suspension of for grossly unsportsmanlike conduct.

Given the ongoing discussion of riders urinating where they should not and the ever present message, public urination should be considered unsportsmanlike. There should not be a single OBRA participant that has not heard this message. Whether the offense rises to grossly unsportsmanlike conduct will depend on context...high school field, proximity to outhouses or bathroom, proximity to spectators, etc. OBRA likely does not need to define public urination as an offense in the rules. If the rider would like to argue, there is an appeal process. If the rider verbally attacks the CR, that is another instance of punishable misconduct.

The CR clearly has the authority to punish a rider for public urination.

Peter Werner
541.410.9251

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: scottjones007@gmail.com; srbeards@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:45:04 -0700
CC: obra_officials@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

Jeff had it on his flyer. From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Scott Jones
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 8:09 AM
To: Steven Beardsley
Cc: OBRA Officials
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought I think it is sad that we would need to put that on a flyer. If people cannot use promoter or venue supplied toilets, then maybe we should add it in 11.2.2 and make it a rule, that way it is clear to everyone. Maybe its just me, but common sense and courtesy to the promoter and others would lead me to believe that you should use a bathroom rather than peeing where others can see you. Lest we forget we HAVE lost venues due to these actions. Scott JonesSam Barlow High School Educational Assistant - Special EducationHead Coach - Track & Field Assistant Coach - Football 971.998.2132Go Bruins! On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:29 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:Hi all,
Just a few notes about the rules.
First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from ever road race he has ever done.
Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the rules.
Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and nothing could be done by the officials.
I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these rules can be modified at the annual meeting.
I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole rule book.
1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.

This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.

I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.

Your thoughts?

Jordan Staples
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OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
_______________________________________________
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OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Mike Hilbrandt

I believe there are a lot of laws, federal, state and local, that are not
in OBRA rules. Does that mean we officials, as representatives of OBRA and
bicyclists in the northwest, should not hold our own accountable?

I would have DQ'ed the rider under rule 11.2.2 - Misconduct - The forms of
misconduct include, *but are not limited to:*

It would seem to me that breaking a law would qualify as misconduct - even
if that specific example is not given in the OBRA rules.

http://ci.hood-river.or.us/pageview.aspx?id=18304#920 -

9.20.010 Public Indecency. No person shall, while in , or in view of
place, perform:

A. An act of sexual intercourse;

B. An act of exposing their sex organs, or the areola of the female mamma;

*C. An act of urination or defecation, except in toilets provided for that
purpose. *

The fact that the rider is not from Hood River or even Oregon is irrelevant
- you are a guest and need to adhere to local laws and rules. Besides that,
name a state in the United States in which public urination is not against
the law.

Lastly, some of us have read the whole rule book and understand that there
are some grey areas concerning rules in order to govern those that would
try and use the rules to their advantage.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:48 AM, Melanie Rathe
wrote:

> I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't find the
> obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule 11.2.2 and there
> is *no specific mention of public urination *(I did a search on the
> document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but to no avail). Although
> we all know it is common sense that it would be considered rider
> misconduct, I think it prudent to add that as an example like the others
> are listed...
> Mel
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Candi"
> *To: *"Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith" <
> mistersmith72@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"OBRA Officials"
> *Sent: *Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>
> Scott
>
> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the next
> day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>
>
>
> Candi
>
>
>
> *From:* OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Jones
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
> *To:* Bryan Smith
> *Cc:*
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>
>
>
> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the people
> who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>
>
> Scott Jones
>
> Sam Barlow High School
>
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>
> Head Coach - Track & Field
>
> Assistant Coach - Football
>
> 971.998.2132
>
> *Go Bruins!*
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
> wrote:
>
> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
> pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>
> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the
> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I
> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>
>
>
> Julia Fudge
>
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>
> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>
>
>
> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one
> rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other
> venues.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott Jones
>
> Sam Barlow High School
>
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>
> Head Coach - Track & Field
>
> Assistant Coach - Football
>
> 971.998.2132
>
> *Go Bruins!*
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
> wrote:
>
> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>
> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>
> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
> penalty for this type of thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Jordan Staples
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Candi Murray

Jeff had it on his flyer.

From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Scott Jones
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 8:09 AM
To: Steven Beardsley
Cc: OBRA Officials
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

I think it is sad that we would need to put that on a flyer. If people cannot use promoter or venue supplied toilets, then maybe we should add it in 11.2.2 and make it a rule, that way it is clear to everyone. Maybe its just me, but common sense and courtesy to the promoter and others would lead me to believe that you should use a bathroom rather than peeing where others can see you.

Lest we forget we HAVE lost venues due to these actions.

Scott Jones

Sam Barlow High School

Educational Assistant - Special Education

Head Coach - Track & Field

Assistant Coach - Football

971.998.2132

Go Bruins!

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:29 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:

Hi all,

Just a few notes about the rules.

First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from ever road race he has ever done.

Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the rules.

Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and nothing could be done by the officials.

I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these rules can be modified at the annual meeting.

I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole rule book.

1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.

This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.

I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.

Your thoughts?

Jordan Staples
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Candi Murray

I agree.

Candi

From: Jordan Staples [mailto:jstaples17@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 7:22 AM
To: cmurray@obra.org
Cc: Scott Jones; Bryan Smith; obra_officials@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

While I feel that public shaming or calling them out sounds good I think we as officials would send the wrong message to the community. We can let their peers chastise them for the actions but I think a very stiff penalty is more appropriate.

Jordan Staples

Mill Direct Lumber Sales

On Sep 15, 2014, at 6:11 AM, "Candi Murray" wrote:

Scott

They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the next day so the results were corrected and reposted.

Candi

From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Scott Jones
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
To: Bryan Smith
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.

Scott Jones

Sam Barlow High School

Educational Assistant - Special Education

Head Coach - Track & Field

Assistant Coach - Football

971.998.2132

Go Bruins!

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith wrote:

Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:

At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.

Julia Fudge

On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:

I agree with Jordan 100%.

At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.

Scott Jones

Sam Barlow High School

Educational Assistant - Special Education

Head Coach - Track & Field

Assistant Coach - Football

971.998.2132

Go Bruins!

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples wrote:

1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.

This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.

I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.

Your thoughts?

Jordan Staples
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Candi Murray

Steven

I think that in all of our opinions Public Urination would be considered Misconduct. The rules give examples of misconduct but specifically state that they are not limited to the ones listed.

I also believe that since this event was a two day event that discovered misconduct can be penalized until the conclusion.

I agree that we all should read the rules.

There is a rules meeting in October that quite a few items need to be addressed. I hope those concerned will attend.

Candi

From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Steven Beardsley
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 7:29 AM
To: Jordan Staples
Cc: OBRA Officials
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

Hi all,

Just a few notes about the rules.

First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from ever road race he has ever done.

Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the rules.

Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and nothing could be done by the officials.

I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these rules can be modified at the annual meeting.

I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole rule book.

1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.

This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.

I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.

Your thoughts?

Jordan Staples
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Jordan Staples

As you stated I do think our rules need to reflect the appropriate action for the venue. We know at a mtb race or a road races rolling caravan that using the restroom while riding is permitted.

Maybe common sense doesn't prevail in any situation and we need to have rules for every single thing so there is never a question.

Jordan Staples
Mill Direct Lumber Sales

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 8:09 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>
> In this scenario, where it is against the Law, I agree with you. But at other venues, I don't feel that this would be considered misconduct unless it was posted on the race flyer.
>
> How would you deal with a racer who pees along the cross course in the middle of their race? How about the racer who does it in a road race? Or in a road race while passing a school? Or in a 24 hour MTB race. I am sure you can see the issues all of these scenarios makes if they are not ALL dealt with the exact same way.
>
> I think peer pressure from some source us taking over on this subject. Our job as officials is to make sure riders are following the OBRA rules, and do it unbiased and without outside influence.
>
> A note about 11.4: We, as CRs, do not have the ability to go back and change them. We have the ability to report the issue to the board and the board can change the results. So DQing someone on the spot after the results have been posted for 15 minutes is not within our abilities.
>
> On Sep 15, 2014 7:48 AM, "Jordan Staples" wrote:
>> Steven is correct at there is no specific rule about public urination. I would actually put this as rider misconduct.
>>
>> As for final results being posted, we do have the ability to go back amend them based on new information. Rule 11.4 does allow this but under the direction of the board.
>>
>> Jordan Staples
>> Mill Direct Lumber Sales
>>
>>> On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Just a few notes about the rules.
>>>
>>> First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from ever road race he has ever done.
>>>
>>> Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the rules.
>>>
>>> Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and nothing could be done by the officials.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these rules can be modified at the annual meeting.
>>>
>>> I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole rule book.
>>>
>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>>
>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>>
>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>>>
>>> Your thoughts?
>>>
>>> Jordan Staples
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Steven Beardsley

In this scenario, where it is against the Law, I agree with you. But at
other venues, I don't feel that this would be considered misconduct unless
it was posted on the race flyer.

How would you deal with a racer who pees along the cross course in the
middle of their race? How about the racer who does it in a road race? Or in
a road race while passing a school? Or in a 24 hour MTB race. I am sure you
can see the issues all of these scenarios makes if they are not ALL dealt
with the exact same way.

I think peer pressure from some source us taking over on this subject. Our
job as officials is to make sure riders are following the OBRA rules, and
do it unbiased and without outside influence.

A note about 11.4: We, as CRs, do not have the ability to go back and
change them. We have the ability to report the issue to the board and the
board can change the results. So DQing someone on the spot after the
results have been posted for 15 minutes is not within our abilities.
On Sep 15, 2014 7:48 AM, "Jordan Staples" wrote:

> Steven is correct at there is no specific rule about public urination. I
> would actually put this as rider misconduct.
>
> As for final results being posted, we do have the ability to go back amend
> them based on new information. Rule 11.4 does allow this but under the
> direction of the board.
>
> Jordan Staples
> Mill Direct Lumber Sales
>
> On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just a few notes about the rules.
>
> First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be
> against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but
> it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from
> ever road race he has ever done.
>
> Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be
> considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of
> directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the
> rules.
>
> Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from
> the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed
> out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg
> area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and
> nothing could be done by the officials.
>
> I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just
> clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these
> rules can be modified at the annual meeting.
>
> I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole
> rule book.
> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>
> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>
> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
> penalty for this type of thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Jordan Staples
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Scott Jones

I think it is sad that we would need to put that on a flyer. If people
cannot use promoter or venue supplied toilets, then maybe we should add it
in 11.2.2 and make it a rule, that way it is clear to everyone. Maybe its
just me, but common sense and courtesy to the promoter and others would
lead me to believe that you should use a bathroom rather than peeing where
others can see you.

Lest we forget we HAVE lost venues due to these actions.

Scott Jones
Sam Barlow High School
Educational Assistant - Special Education
Head Coach - Track & Field
Assistant Coach - Football
971.998.2132
*Go Bruins!*

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 7:29 AM, Steven Beardsley
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just a few notes about the rules.
>
> First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be
> against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but
> it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from
> ever road race he has ever done.
>
> Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be
> considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of
> directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the
> rules.
>
> Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from
> the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed
> out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg
> area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and
> nothing could be done by the officials.
>
> I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just
> clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these
> rules can be modified at the annual meeting.
>
> I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole
> rule book.
> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>
> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>
> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
> penalty for this type of thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Jordan Staples
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Melanie Rathe

I heard back from the rider from Colorado and he said he couldn't find the obra rule regarding public urination. I went to the rule 11.2.2 and there is no specific mention of public urination (I did a search on the document in hopes of finding it somewhere else but to no avail). Although we all know it is common sense that it would be considered rider misconduct, I think it prudent to add that as an example like the others are listed...
Mel

----- Original Message -----

From: "Candi"
To: "Scott Jones" , "Bryan Smith"
Cc: "OBRA Officials"
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 6:11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

Scott

They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the next day so the results were corrected and reposted.

Candi

From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Scott Jones
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
To: Bryan Smith
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results. 

Scott Jones

Sam Barlow High School 

Educational Assistant - Special Education

Head Coach - Track & Field 

Assistant Coach - Football 

971.998.2132

Go Bruins!

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith < mistersmith72@gmail.com > wrote:

Pruning shears.  The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of pruning shears.  If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge < jsfudge@comcast.net > wrote:

At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.  

Julia Fudge

On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones < scottjones007@gmail.com > wrote:

I agree with Jordan 100%. 

At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.

Scott Jones

Sam Barlow High School 

Educational Assistant - Special Education

Head Coach - Track & Field 

Assistant Coach - Football 

971.998.2132

Go Bruins!

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples < jstaples17@yahoo.com > wrote:

1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.

This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.

I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.

Your thoughts?

Jordan Staples
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
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OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Jordan Staples

Steven is correct at there is no specific rule about public urination. I would actually put this as rider misconduct.

As for final results being posted, we do have the ability to go back amend them based on new information. Rule 11.4 does allow this but under the direction of the board.

Jordan Staples
Mill Direct Lumber Sales

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Steven Beardsley wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just a few notes about the rules.
>
> First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from ever road race he has ever done.
>
> Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the rules.
>
> Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and nothing could be done by the officials.
>
> I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these rules can be modified at the annual meeting.
>
> I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole rule book.
>
> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>
> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>
> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Jordan Staples
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Steven Beardsley

Hi all,

Just a few notes about the rules.

First off, public urination is not against the OBRA rules. It may be
against the rules at some venue or race if it is posted on the flyer, but
it is not against the general rules. If it were, Paul B should be DQed from
ever road race he has ever done.

Second, if the results were posted at the race site, they are to be
considered final after 15 minutes and can only be changed by the board of
directors. So this DQ by the CR the day after thing is actually against the
rules.

Lastly, if there was a rule against peeing, it can only be withheld from
the time a participate registers until the last prizes have been handed
out. So some racer could show up, pee in the grass on the way to the reg
area, then register (if the race organizer still lets them participate) and
nothing could be done by the officials.

I'm not saying that I like the rules as they are written, I'm just
clarifying them so there are not misunderstandings here. Obviously these
rules can be modified at the annual meeting.

I actually highly suggest that all of you officials read through the whole
rule book.
1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.

This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.

I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
penalty for this type of thing.

Your thoughts?

Jordan Staples
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Jordan Staples

While I feel that public shaming or calling them out sounds good I think we as officials would send the wrong message to the community. We can let their peers chastise them for the actions but I think a very stiff penalty is more appropriate.

Jordan Staples
Mill Direct Lumber Sales

> On Sep 15, 2014, at 6:11 AM, "Candi Murray" wrote:
>
> Scott
> They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the next day so the results were corrected and reposted.
>
> Candi
>
> From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Scott Jones
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
> To: Bryan Smith
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought
>
> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>
> Scott Jones
> Sam Barlow High School
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> Head Coach - Track & Field
> Assistant Coach - Football
> 971.998.2132
> Go Bruins!
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith wrote:
> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>
> Julia Fudge
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>
> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>
> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>
>
>
> Scott Jones
> Sam Barlow High School
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> Head Coach - Track & Field
> Assistant Coach - Football
> 971.998.2132
> Go Bruins!
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples wrote:
> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>
> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>
> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Jordan Staples
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Candi Murray

Scott

They are listed on the results. Unfortunately we were told of one the next day so the results were corrected and reposted.

Candi

From: OBRA_Officials [mailto:obra_officials-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Scott Jones
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:33 PM
To: Bryan Smith
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Officials] Food for thought

I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the people who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.

Scott Jones

Sam Barlow High School

Educational Assistant - Special Education

Head Coach - Track & Field

Assistant Coach - Football

971.998.2132

Go Bruins!

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith wrote:

Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:

At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.

Julia Fudge

On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:

I agree with Jordan 100%.

At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.

Scott Jones

Sam Barlow High School

Educational Assistant - Special Education

Head Coach - Track & Field

Assistant Coach - Football

971.998.2132

Go Bruins!

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples wrote:

1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.

This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.

I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.

Your thoughts?

Jordan Staples
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

_______________________________________________
OBRA_Officials mailing list
OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Dan Grabski

I do remember hearing one of today's DQs on the PA today telling others of
what happened to him - I did think that was a good touch.
Dan

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Scott Jones
wrote:

> I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the people
> who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.
>
> Scott Jones
> Sam Barlow High School
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> Head Coach - Track & Field
> Assistant Coach - Football
> 971.998.2132
> *Go Bruins!*
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
> wrote:
>
>> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
>> pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>>
>>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the
>>> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I
>>> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
>>> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
>>> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>>>
>>> Julia Fudge
>>>
>>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>>>
>>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
>>> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
>>> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
>>> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one
>>> rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other
>>> venues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott Jones
>>> Sam Barlow High School
>>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>>> Assistant Coach - Football
>>> 971.998.2132
>>> *Go Bruins!*
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>>>
>>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
>>>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
>>>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
>>>> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
>>>> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
>>>> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
>>>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>>>
>>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
>>>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
>>>> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
>>>> penalty for this type of thing.
>>>>
>>>> Your thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Jordan Staples
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Scott Jones

I'm all for AT LEAST public shaming. I think it is a shame that the people
who did this were conveniently left off the posted results.

Scott Jones
Sam Barlow High School
Educational Assistant - Special Education
Head Coach - Track & Field
Assistant Coach - Football
971.998.2132
*Go Bruins!*

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Bryan Smith
wrote:

> Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
> pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:
>
>> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
>> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the
>> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I
>> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
>> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
>> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>>
>> Julia Fudge
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>>
>> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
>> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
>> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
>> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one
>> rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other
>> venues.
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott Jones
>> Sam Barlow High School
>> Educational Assistant - Special Education
>> Head Coach - Track & Field
>> Assistant Coach - Football
>> 971.998.2132
>> *Go Bruins!*
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>>
>>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
>>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
>>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
>>> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
>>> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
>>> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
>>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>>
>>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
>>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
>>> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
>>> penalty for this type of thing.
>>>
>>> Your thoughts?
>>>
>>> Jordan Staples
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>>
>

Bryan Smith

Pruning shears. The AR, CR, Pit Referee and CJ should have a set of
pruning shears. If that doesn't stop it, nothing will.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Julia Fudge wrote:

> At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public
> urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the
> remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I
> hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the
> promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If
> suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.
>
> Julia Fudge
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>
> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>
> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one
> rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other
> venues.
>
>
>
> Scott Jones
> Sam Barlow High School
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> Head Coach - Track & Field
> Assistant Coach - Football
> 971.998.2132
> *Go Bruins!*
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
> wrote:
>
>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>
>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
>> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
>> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
>> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>
>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
>> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
>> penalty for this type of thing.
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> Jordan Staples
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Julia Fudge

At the minimum, a DQ should be swiftly dealt in the case of public urination. I would also suggest immediate removal from the premises for the remaining duration of the event, certainly at least an inconvenience that I hope would make an impression. It might be appropriate to notify the promoter as well in case he or she wishes to pursue further action. If suspensions need to be given out in order to make it stop, then so be it.

Julia Fudge

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones wrote:
>
> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>
> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>
>
>
> Scott Jones
> Sam Barlow High School
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> Head Coach - Track & Field
> Assistant Coach - Football
> 971.998.2132
> Go Bruins!
>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples wrote:
>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>
>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>
>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> Jordan Staples
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Dan Grabski

Yeah what you two said. Personally I think it should be DQ and one month
ban but I am lenient.

As a racer, it would be frustrating for me to see someone get busted for
peeing but not get a DQ because they say they're from out of the area, they
do it all the time in mountain biking, or whatever excuse there is. The
public doesn't know that they come from a state where public urination
isn't as big of a deal.

Dan

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 5:44 PM, Scott Jones
wrote:

> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>
> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
> about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
> have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
> stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one
> rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other
> venues.
>
>
>
> Scott Jones
> Sam Barlow High School
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> Head Coach - Track & Field
> Assistant Coach - Football
> 971.998.2132
> *Go Bruins!*
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
> wrote:
>
>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>
>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
>> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
>> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
>> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
>> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
>> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
>> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>
>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
>> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
>> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
>> penalty for this type of thing.
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> Jordan Staples
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
>

Dirk

I might be going a bit overboard but I would like to see guilty riders both fined and banned from racing for at least 6 months. For a second offense bigger fine and a lifetime ban.

We are all adults and should act like it.

Dirk

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 18:09, "Scott Jones" wrote:
>
> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>
> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>
>
>
> Scott Jones
> Sam Barlow High School
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> Head Coach - Track & Field
> Assistant Coach - Football
> 971.998.2132
> Go Bruins!
>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples wrote:
>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>
>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>
>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> Jordan Staples
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Chaz Donaldson

I personally am in favor of a "name and shame" process where we let the rest of the riders know who they are and let social pressure take the reins. If everyone knows you're a public pee problem then maybe some of these folks will be embarrassed enough to cool it.

> On Sep 14, 2014, at 17:44, Scott Jones wrote:
>
> I agree with Jordan 100%.
>
> At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other venues.
>
>
>
> Scott Jones
> Sam Barlow High School
> Educational Assistant - Special Education
> Head Coach - Track & Field
> Assistant Coach - Football
> 971.998.2132
> Go Bruins!
>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples wrote:
>> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>>
>> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>>
>> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> Jordan Staples
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA_Officials mailing list
>> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials

Scott Jones

I agree with Jordan 100%.

At this point public urination should be zero tolerant. We have talked
about it in many realms, emails, the listserve, etc. I would really hate to
have to put this in big bold print on ever flyer, but what will it take to
stop people from doing this. We have lost venues and are virtually one
rider doing his business in a bush away from losing any number of other
venues.

Scott Jones
Sam Barlow High School
Educational Assistant - Special Education
Head Coach - Track & Field
Assistant Coach - Football
971.998.2132
*Go Bruins!*

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Jordan Staples
wrote:

> 1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.
>
> This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on
> school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said
> bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers
> about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones
> provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people
> who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing
> something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.
>
> I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are
> consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is
> really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better
> penalty for this type of thing.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Jordan Staples
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA_Officials mailing list
> OBRA_Officials@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_officials
>

Jordan Staples

1. Urinating outside of the bathrooms is against our rules.

This can be dealt with in a lot of ways. As this weekends race was on school grounds thus making it an actual crime to expose yourself for said bathroom needs I chose to DQ two riders. I got reports from non racers about these two racers using the outdoor facility instead of the ones provided. For most of us we know how important venues are but also people who are not in our community spectating for the first time and seeing something like this. We can and have lost venues for this exact reason.

I am hoping that the officials who work together can make sure we are consistent and clear about expectations on this matter. My feeling is really a zero tolerance and maybe we need to openly discuss a better penalty for this type of thing.

Your thoughts?

Jordan Staples