mike.m-@obra.org

If the numbers are pinned correctly on the side then they should not cover

pockets. If you are wearing a skin suit it doesn't have any pockets. It

should be fairly easy to pin down the numbers so they do not parachute and

that can be done with only 4 or 5 pins. For even better aerodynamics you

can sew them in place or even glue them on.



As for Geri's suggestion, I also disagree. For road race events the best

position for numbers is one on the side which will be viable to the location

of the judges and the camera. This will generally be the right side in open

road races since the judges will generally be on the near side of the road

although it often works even better if the judges are on the left side.

Which side the judges set up on depends mostly on the physical set up of the

finish area. Often even the judges don't know what that is going to be

before they get to the race site.



The second number should be horizontal on the back. This is so that the

number can be read from a follow vehicle as side numbers are not visible to

follow vehicles, especially if they are on the right.



For events where there is no follow vehicle then a single number on the side

of the judges is adequate.



For those who use only one jersey or skin suit at races you will be able to

do most races without moving your numbers if you pin one to each side. If

you have more than one shirt, go to races that don't use OBRA numbers, etc.

you will need to remove your numbers.



For tomorrow's race, it is not at this point clear exactly where the judges

are going to be set up. I think people will need to be flexible enough to

put the number on the side dictated by the set up of the judges area which

will be done tomorrow morning.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: The Field Family [mailto:tfie-@mindspring.com]

Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 18:57 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] TT Number Position





I am the one who asked about the number position. I respectfully disagree

with Geri Bossen's assertion that you should put numbers on both sides. If

I put numbers on both sides for a road race, all my pockets would be

covered ( I have a 3 digit number and my back isn't that big), and for a

TT, if you safety pin numbers on both sides of your skinsuit, you

completely defeat the purpose of the skin suit with two "parachutes(

numbers) no matter how many pins you use. So I ask again: Which side should

numbers be on for the state TT?



Tom Field



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mike.m-@obra.org

On the other hand, if the numbers were smaller they would be harder to read

both directly by the judges as riders roll by and on the camera. The

current number size is a reasonable compromise between the need to be able

to read them and the available real estate on a rider. In addition, both

OBRA and USCF rules specifically state a minimum number size which is the

size we are using. If Eric thinks they are hard place correctly on someone

his size he should try putting them on someone my size.



Geri's suggestion has lots of merit. Every bike racer should spend a little

time assisting or at least observing officials, particularly at the finish

line. This is not an easy job and they are certainly not doing it for the

pay. Although things like judging finishes, turning lap boards, ringing

bells, etc. appear pretty easy to figure out from the racers point of view

they are a whole lot easier to mess up from the side of the road position

with multiple fields of racers, riders laps down, off the back, off the

front, just milling around, etc.



Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Erik Voldengen [mailto:eri-@fusium.com]

Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 7:16 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT Number Position





I think if the numbers were smaller, they'd be easier to place correctly.



-Erik

David Auker

 ( I have a 3 digit number and my back isn't that big),

I think we all have (at least) three digits! I can see using both numbers

for road racing, but not necessarily for time trials. I think we need to

hear from the actual tt officials/promoter, as to which side of the road the

camera will be on, as traditionally (as far as I can recall), tts usually

have one number required (one of those rare circumstances). Geri's advice

about having the number on the side, rather than the back, is very

good/essential.



It IS an art/craft/time-consumer putting those numbers on (my least favorite

race duty...if I get asked before a race to "pin my number on," I usually

say forget it (unless there are mitigating circumstances :-))



If you are handy with a sewing machine, zig-zag stitch your number(s) on

that skin suit, and the parachute effect won't happen. It's pretty easy to

remove, if you use stiches far apart.



This year I started a variation on the "pillow inside the jersey/skin suit

trick" for easier number pinning: I used a torso-sized cardboard box, and

the pins had nothing under the jersey to snag on (except maybe my fingers in

there: ouch!).



We are so fortunate to have permanent numbers, so we don't have to get fresh

ones at each and every race...otherwise, it's such a senseless waste of

time, pinning those puppies on, each and every time you race!



I gotta say, creative/solid number placement looks pro, flappy, ill-secured

numbers have a novice look.



David A.



----- Original Message -----

From: "The Field Family" <tfie-@mindspring.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 6:56 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] TT Number Position





 I am the one who asked about the number position. I respectfully disagree

with Geri Bossen's assertion that you should put numbers on both sides. If

I put numbers on both sides for a road race, all my pockets would be

covered ( I have a 3 digit number and my back isn't that big), and for a

TT, if you safety pin numbers on both sides of your skinsuit, you

completely defeat the purpose of the skin suit with two "parachutes(

numbers) no matter how many pins you use. So I ask again: Which side

should

 numbers be on for the state TT?



Tom Field

The Field Family

I am the one who asked about the number position. I respectfully disagree

with Geri Bossen's assertion that you should put numbers on both sides. If

I put numbers on both sides for a road race, all my pockets would be

covered ( I have a 3 digit number and my back isn't that big), and for a

TT, if you safety pin numbers on both sides of your skinsuit, you

completely defeat the purpose of the skin suit with two "parachutes(

numbers) no matter how many pins you use. So I ask again: Which side should

numbers be on for the state TT?



Tom Field

Erik Voldengen

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I think if the numbers were smaller, they'd be easier to place correctly.



-Erik



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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think if the numbers were smaller, they'd be

easier to place correctly.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Erik</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>



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Geri Bossen

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The answer is BOTH SIDES FOR EVERY RACE (Then you will never have to ask. That is why you have two numbers)



---RIGHT SIDE UP--- ON YOUR SIDE--- NOT ON YOUR BACK--- NOT ON YOUR POCKETS ----NOT ON YOUR SHOULDER BLADES--NOT FOLDED.



PINNED TIGHTLY SO IT DOES NOT FLIP AROUND-- NOT COVERED BY YOUR HAIR/JACKET/CAMEL-BAK ETC.



If you want to know why, try watching the video of any race finish and look at all of the unreadable numbers that slow down the results and frustrate the officials-- especially the new officials who do not have all 2,000+ racers memorized.



Candi is amazing--- she can watch a blurry video and identify racers by their position on the bike/helmet/team colors. Not only that but she knows most everyone's number and how to spell all of the names.



New officials are stumped when they see a poorly place number or a number flapping in the wind. One unreadable number can cause the official to miss the next several numbers. Be kind to Candi do not make her have to help with the results at every race we have in Oregon. Be kind to the new officials who are helping make all of the races possible. Without officials there would be no results.



I think every racer should have to stand at the finish line and score an entire race--you would quickly realize that just one poorly placed or missing number can cause the official to miss several numbers.







Geri Bossen



----- Original Message -----

From: The Field Family

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Tuesday, 12 August, 2003 6:00 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] TT Number Position





Which side for numbers for the State TT this weekend ?



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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial size=2>

<P>The answer is BOTH SIDES FOR EVERY RACE (Then you will never have to ask.

That is why you have two numbers) </P>

<P>---RIGHT SIDE UP--- <B><I><U>ON YOUR SIDE</B></I></U>--- NOT ON YOUR BACK---

NOT ON YOUR POCKETS ----NOT ON YOUR SHOULDER BLADES--NOT FOLDED. </P>

<P>PINNED TIGHTLY SO IT DOES NOT FLIP AROUND-- NOT COVERED BY YOUR

HAIR/JACKET/CAMEL-BAK ETC. </P>

<P>If you want to know why, try watching the video of any race finish and look

at all of the unreadable numbers that slow down the results and frustrate the

officials-- especially the new officials who do not have all 2,000+ racers

memorized. </P>

<P>Candi is amazing--- she can watch a blurry video and identify racers by their

position on the bike/helmet/team colors. Not only that but she knows most

everyone's number and how to spell all of the names. </P>

<P>New officials are stumped when they see a poorly place number or a number

flapping in the wind. One unreadable number can cause the official to miss the

next several numbers. Be kind to Candi do not make her have to help with the

results at every race we have in Oregon. Be kind to the new officials who

are helping make all of the races possible. Without officials there would

be no results. </P>

<P>I think every racer should have to stand at the finish line and score an

entire race--you would quickly realize that just one poorly placed or missing

number can cause the official to miss several numbers. </P>

<P> </P>

<P>Geri Bossen</P></FONT></FONT>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=t-@mindspring.com href="mailto:tfie-@mindspring.com">The

Field Family</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 12 August, 2003 6:00

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] TT Number

Position</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>Which side for numbers  for the State TT this weekend

?<BR><BR>To respond to the whole group send to <A

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A>.<BR>To respond to the list

manager send to <A href="mailto:ob-@teleport.com">ob-@teleport.com</A><BR>To

unsubscribe send to <A

href="mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com">obra-uns-@topica.com</-----------------------------------------------<BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>



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The Field Family

Which side for numbers for the State TT this weekend ?