Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

T. Kenji Sugahara

2015-10-28

No go.

7.3 Bicycle and bicycle equipment
7.3.1 Bicycle propulsion Bicycles must be propelled by the rider���s
legs only. No stored propulsion mechanism is allowed.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Rick Johnson via OBRA
wrote:
> Another interesting question - what will OBRA say when a promoter wants to
> put on an ebike race?
>
>
> Message from Johnson mobile HQ
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Mike Murray via OBRA
> Date: 10/27/2015 5:06 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: OBRA remailer
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !
>
> This conversation has been interesting to me as I have to think that there
> are similarities between people on mountain bikes that don���t want electric
> assist mountain bikes and hikers who don���t want to see any bikes.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
>
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson via
> OBRA
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 08:55
> To: Matt Martel; Todd Mobley
> Cc: OBRA; Arlo
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !
>
>
>
> Were it up to me -
>
> Rule: Non-motorized trails means no motors (electric or otherwise) allowed.
> Exception: Those with a documented physical disability may use electric
> assist with restrictions.
>
> Similar process of verification and identification as for handicapped
> parking.
> Strict limit on motor output power.
> Citations and fines for violators.
>
>
> We can't simply look at today and be complacent in that e-bikes are
> currently expensive, rare and limited in their power and range. All that
> will change as we move into the future.
>
> Better batteries will extend the e-bike range and more trail miles will
> become desirable to their users.
> Electric motors will become more powerful. There will be a greater impact on
> the trail quality and the trail maintenance necessary. Speed differentials
> will increase leading to more user conflicts.
> Cost will fall, bigger manufacturers will enter the market and the volume of
> e-bike users will increase exponentially.
>
>
> Is this the future you would like to see?
> Be aware, and care.
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
>
> Bend, Oregon
>
>
>
> On 10/27/2015 8:02 AM, Matt Martel wrote:
>
> Of course there should always be some logical exceptions but I really hope
> the trails dont get overrun with e-bikes.
>
>
>
> - Matt
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Todd Mobley via OBRA
> wrote:
>
> I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist full
> suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on
> technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.
>
> I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill
> gave me some new perspective...
>
> -Todd
>
> Sent from mobile
>
> On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick Johnson via OBRA" wrote:
>
> What is the device propelling an electric bike called?
> An electric motor.
>
> So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor
> propelled vehicles.
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
>
> Bend, Oregon
>
>
>
> On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:
>
> Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to trail
> build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if they
> are not maintaining the trails.
>
> On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" wrote:
>
> In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as you
> were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access to
> areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use as
> argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person can't
> use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out of an
> area............they should not be there...unless there is special access
> like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking on this
> (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to have
> access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about. The
> more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part gets
> harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be old,
> but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do not
> want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the
> anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
> ron s.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !
>
> about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb, which
> never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work, finally
> he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman. the
> first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or pedaling! He was
> on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels about sharing our
> limited local trails with these people but it is in fact against forrest
> rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings the rangers they
> may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails out there for
> motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized use, so that's one
> way to look at it.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA mailing list
>
> obra@list.obra.org
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org


Rick Johnson

2015-10-28

Another interesting question - what will OBRA say when a promoter wants to put on an ebike race?

Message from Johnson mobile HQ

-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Murray via OBRA
Date: 10/27/2015 5:06 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: OBRA remailer
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

This conversation has been interesting to me as I have to think that there are similarities between people on mountain bikes that don’t want electric assist mountain bikes and hikers who don’t want to see any bikes.

Mike Murray

From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 08:55
To: Matt Martel; Todd Mobley
Cc: OBRA; Arlo
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

Were it up to me -

Rule: Non-motorized trails means no motors (electric or otherwise) allowed.
Exception: Those with a documented physical disability may use electric assist with restrictions.
Similar process of verification and identification as for handicapped parking.
Strict limit on motor output power.
Citations and fines for violators.

We can't simply look at today and be complacent in that e-bikes are currently expensive, rare and limited in their power and range. All that will change as we move into the future.
Better batteries will extend the e-bike range and more trail miles will become desirable to their users.
Electric motors will become more powerful. There will be a greater impact on the trail quality and the trail maintenance necessary. Speed differentials will increase leading to more user conflicts.
Cost will fall, bigger manufacturers will enter the market and the volume of e-bike users will increase exponentially.

Is this the future you would like to see?
Be aware, and care.

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

On 10/27/2015 8:02 AM, Matt Martel wrote:
Of course there should always be some logical exceptions but I really hope the trails dont get overrun with e-bikes.

- Matt

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Todd Mobley via OBRA wrote:
I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist full suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.

I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill gave me some new perspective...

-Todd

Sent from mobile

On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick Johnson via OBRA" wrote:
What is the device propelling an electric bike called?
An electric motor.

So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor propelled vehicles.

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:
Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to trail build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if they are not maintaining the trails.

On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" wrote:
In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as you were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access to areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use as argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person can't use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out of an area............they should not be there...unless there is special access like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking on this (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to have access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about. The more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do not want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
ron s.

-----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb, which never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work, finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or pedaling! He was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings the rangers they may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized use, so that's one way to look at it.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org



je..@ultrafreaks.net

2015-10-28

+1  You're spot on.  Too easy to be hypocritical.  Somehow the ebike experience is less pure than an mtb because there's an electro-mechanical advantage??  Geeze, welcome to how runners/walkers feel when you bear down on them on the trail.



As a hiker or trail runner I may not be too enthusiastic about hearing mtb's clattering through the woods nearby, or having a rider come around a blind corner at 15-20 mph while I'm hiking with my kids.  As an mtb rider I'm probably not too excited about sharing the trail with an ebike; much less so with an OHV.  I've got to believe that OHV riders aren't too thrilled to see mtb's lumbering up their trails at 7mph.



As we're pressed, more and more, into finding ways to share our shrinking greenspaces it's important to be able to shift perspective and be objective, rather than denegrating a particular user group because of the experience they value.



-Jeff












On Oct 27, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA <obra@list.obra.org> wrote:




#wmQuoteWrapper /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @font-face {font-family:Consolas; panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
#wmQuoteWrapper /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, #wmQuoteWrapper li.MsoNormal, #wmQuoteWrapper div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; color:black;}
#wmQuoteWrapper a:link, #wmQuoteWrapper span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;}
#wmQuoteWrapper a:visited, #wmQuoteWrapper span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;}
#wmQuoteWrapper p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; color:black;}
#wmQuoteWrapper pre {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black;}
#wmQuoteWrapper span.HTMLPreformattedChar {mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted"; font-family:Consolas; color:black;}
#wmQuoteWrapper span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;}
#wmQuoteWrapper .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
#wmQuoteWrapper div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}
#wmQuoteWrapper /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:662124631; mso-list-template-ids:1181791632;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level1 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Symbol;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level2 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:o; mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level3 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level4 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level5 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level6 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level7 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level8 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l0:level9 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1 {mso-list-id:1441950991; mso-list-template-ids:1855085964;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level1 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Symbol;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level2 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:o; mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level3 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level4 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level5 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level6 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level7 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level8 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper @list l1:level9 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:���; mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;}
#wmQuoteWrapper ol {margin-bottom:0in;}
#wmQuoteWrapper ul {margin-bottom:0in;}


This conversation has been interesting to me as I have to think that there are similarities between people on mountain bikes that don���t want electric assist mountain bikes and hikers who don���t want to see any bikes.

 

Mike Murray

 


From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 08:55
To: Matt Martel; Todd Mobley
Cc: OBRA; Arlo
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !


 

Were it up to me -

Rule: Non-motorized trails means no motors (electric or otherwise) allowed.
Exception: Those with a documented physical disability may use electric assist with restrictions.


  • Similar process of verification and identification as for handicapped parking.

  • Strict limit on motor output power.

  • Citations and fines for violators.




We can't simply look at today and be complacent in that e-bikes are currently expensive, rare and limited in their power and range. All that will change as we move into the future.


  • Better batteries will extend the e-bike range and more trail miles will become desirable to their users.

  • Electric motors will become more powerful. There will be a greater impact on the trail quality and the trail maintenance necessary. Speed differentials will increase leading to more user conflicts.

  • Cost will fall, bigger manufacturers will enter the market and the volume of e-bike users will increase exponentially.




Is this the future you would like to see?
Be aware, and care.

Rick


Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

 

On 10/27/2015 8:02 AM, Matt Martel wrote:





Of course there should always be some logical exceptions but I really hope the trails dont get overrun with e-bikes.

 

- Matt



 


On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Todd Mobley via OBRA <obra@list.obra.org> wrote:

I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist full suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.

I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill gave me some new perspective...

-Todd

Sent from mobile


On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick Johnson via OBRA" <obra@list.obra.org> wrote:


What is the device propelling an electric bike called?
An electric motor.

So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor propelled vehicles.

Rick


Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

 

On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:




Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to trail build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if they are not maintaining the trails.


On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" <obra@list.obra.org> wrote:

In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as you were riding!  I have told IMBA as much.  If they gain official access to areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use as argument against our access........."they are machines".  If a person can't use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out of an area............they should not be there...unless there is special access like ADA.  Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking on this (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to have access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about.  The more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc.   I may be old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo.  Thanks for posting and if people do not want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
ron s.

-----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb, which never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work, finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or pedaling!  He was on an electric assisted MTB!  Not sure how everyone feels about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings the rangers they may do something.  There are hundreds of miles of trails out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized use, so that's one way to look at it.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org






_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


 






_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org




_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org



 



 

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org



_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Michael Richardson

2015-10-28

Except the hikers won long ago. Viz Forest Park. And more recently Riverview.

Another Mike

> On Oct 27, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
>
> This conversation has been interesting to me as I have to think that there are similarities between people on mountain bikes that don’t want electric assist mountain bikes and hikers who don’t want to see any bikes.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson via OBRA
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 08:55
> To: Matt Martel; Todd Mobley
> Cc: OBRA; Arlo
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !
>
> Were it up to me -
>
> Rule: Non-motorized trails means no motors (electric or otherwise) allowed.
> Exception: Those with a documented physical disability may use electric assist with restrictions.
> Similar process of verification and identification as for handicapped parking.
> Strict limit on motor output power.
> Citations and fines for violators.
>
> We can't simply look at today and be complacent in that e-bikes are currently expensive, rare and limited in their power and range. All that will change as we move into the future.
> Better batteries will extend the e-bike range and more trail miles will become desirable to their users.
> Electric motors will become more powerful. There will be a greater impact on the trail quality and the trail maintenance necessary. Speed differentials will increase leading to more user conflicts.
> Cost will fall, bigger manufacturers will enter the market and the volume of e-bike users will increase exponentially.
>
> Is this the future you would like to see?
> Be aware, and care.
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>
> On 10/27/2015 8:02 AM, Matt Martel wrote:
> Of course there should always be some logical exceptions but I really hope the trails dont get overrun with e-bikes.
>
> - Matt
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Todd Mobley via OBRA wrote:
> I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist full suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.
>
> I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill gave me some new perspective...
>
> -Todd
>
> Sent from mobile
>
> On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick Johnson via OBRA" wrote:
> What is the device propelling an electric bike called?
> An electric motor.
>
> So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor propelled vehicles.
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>
> On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:
> Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to trail build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if they are not maintaining the trails.
>
> On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" wrote:
> In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as you were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access to areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use as argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person can't use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out of an area............they should not be there...unless there is special access like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking on this (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to have access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about. The more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do not want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
> ron s.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !
>
> about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb, which never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work, finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or pedaling! He was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings the rangers they may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized use, so that's one way to look at it.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Mike Murray

2015-10-28

This conversation has been interesting to me as I have to think that there
are similarities between people on mountain bikes that don’t want electric
assist mountain bikes and hikers who don’t want to see any bikes.

Mike Murray

*From:* OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick
Johnson via OBRA
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2015 08:55
*To:* Matt Martel; Todd Mobley
*Cc:* OBRA; Arlo
*Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

Were it up to me -

Rule: Non-motorized trails means no motors (electric or otherwise) allowed.
Exception: Those with a documented physical disability may use electric
assist with restrictions.

- Similar process of verification and identification as for handicapped
parking.
- Strict limit on motor output power.
- Citations and fines for violators.

We can't simply look at today and be complacent in that e-bikes are
currently expensive, rare and limited in their power and range. All that
will change as we move into the future.

- Better batteries will extend the e-bike range and more trail miles
will become desirable to their users.
- Electric motors will become more powerful. There will be a greater
impact on the trail quality and the trail maintenance necessary. Speed
differentials will increase leading to more user conflicts.
- Cost will fall, bigger manufacturers will enter the market and the
volume of e-bike users will increase exponentially.

Is this the future you would like to see?
Be aware, and care.

Rick

Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon

On 10/27/2015 8:02 AM, Matt Martel wrote:

Of course there should always be some logical exceptions but I really hope
the trails dont get overrun with e-bikes.

- Matt

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Todd Mobley via OBRA
wrote:

I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist full
suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on
technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.

I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill
gave me some new perspective...

-Todd

Sent from mobile

On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick Johnson via OBRA" wrote:

What is the device propelling an electric bike called?
An electric motor.

So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor
propelled vehicles.

Rick

Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon

On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:

Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to trail
build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if they
are not maintaining the trails.

On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" wrote:

In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as
you were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access
to areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use
as argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person
can't use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out
of an area............they should not be there...unless there is special
access like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking
on this (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to
have access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about.
The more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part
gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be
old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do
not want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the
anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
ron s.

-----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb, which
never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work,
finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a
gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or
pedaling! He was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels
about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact
against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings
the rangers they may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails
out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized
use, so that's one way to look at it.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


rond..@spiritone.com

2015-10-27

You folks are right with regard to exceptions. The thing is....in AMERICA... the exceptions usually need to be an emotional story made for TV or such. Otherwise, the general rules apply for all. A power assisted mountain bike is a low-powered motorcycle in my eyes. I want people with physical limitations to be able to get out into nature same as you, but as I said....motor assisted mountain bikes will NOT help the cause of access. It will galvanize the opposition even more. Some history. The very first cover of Bicycling magazine with a person riding a mountain bike (not sure what year, but I had a subscription)....was a guy literally ripping through a beautiful flower filled alpine meadow.....no trail....just a fun way to start some nasty erosion during snow melt. I knew right then, there would be problems with people who wanted to Preserve areas. This has been the case from the get go. Where I could ride my bike anywhere in forest park in the 70s it has gone to roads only except for a few hundred yards of trail. Motorized mountain bikes will not help work for access. There are motorcycle trails that can be ridden on motorized mountain bikes................Bear Springs area is an example. I want users to have access. All users. But I also believe that it needs to be done (built /whatever) in a manner that keeps most groups somewhat satisfied and at times separated. Radical downhill runs need to be developed in areas where they do not conflict with more moderate trails / users. If this means specific “Adventure Parks”, that is fine. Most people do not do that type of mountain biking....most just want to go out and ride for a few hours or the day. I suspect this may not even be sorted out before I am bone. As we continue to fill in virtually every green space with housing or on the opposite end...pretend it is pristine wilderness and protect it....we get fewer places for kids (young and adult) to play around (legally) on natural surfaces that are not actually manicured sports fields or park grass...that are not supposed to be damaged! At some point, there might be some politicians with enough guts and insight to see this type of societal engineering is like a powder keg waiting to... As people are forced into more and more categorized types of physical outlets in limited areas.........something might blow. Everyone needs outlets and trying to force them all into these manicured categories or just bird watching just will not work. I mean how many soccer and football fields do we really need? For that matter have any of you ever seen birds (or other wildlife) while riding your mountain bike? Need to find a place in the middle that works for the humans and the earth.
ronnie

From: Matt Martel via OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 8:02 AM
To: Todd Mobley
Cc: OBRA ; Arlo
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

Of course there should always be some logical exceptions but I really hope the trails dont get overrun with e-bikes.

- Matt

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Todd Mobley via OBRA wrote:

I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist full suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.

I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill gave me some new perspective...

-Todd

Sent from mobile

On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick Johnson via OBRA" wrote:

What is the device propelling an electric bike called?
An electric motor.

So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor propelled vehicles.

Rick

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:

Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to trail build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if they are not maintaining the trails.

On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" wrote:

In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as you were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access to areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use as argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person can't use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out of an area............they should not be there...unless there is special access like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking on this (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to have access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about. The more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do not want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
ron s.

-----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb, which never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work, finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or pedaling! He was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings the rangers they may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized use, so that's one way to look at it.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Rick Johnson

2015-10-27





Were it up to me -



Rule: Non-motorized trails means no motors (electric or otherwise)
allowed.

Exception: Those with a documented physical disability may use
electric assist with restrictions.


  • Similar process of verification and identification as for
    handicapped parking.

  • Strict limit on motor output power.


  • Citations and fines for violators.





We can't simply look at today and be complacent in that e-bikes are
currently expensive, rare and limited in their power and range. All
that will change as we move into the future.


  • Better batteries will extend the e-bike range and more trail
    miles will become desirable to their users.


  • Electric motors will become more powerful. There will be a
    greater impact on the trail quality and the trail maintenance
    necessary. Speed differentials will increase leading to more
    user conflicts.


  • Cost will fall, bigger manufacturers will enter the market and
    the volume of e-bike users will increase exponentially.





Is this the future you would like to see?

Be aware, and care.



Rick

Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon


On 10/27/2015 8:02 AM, Matt Martel
wrote:




Of course
there should always be some logical exceptions but I really
hope the trails dont get overrun with e-bikes.





- Matt





On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Todd
Mobley via OBRA <obra@list.obra.org>
wrote:


I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a
guy that had an e-assist full suspension...and only one
arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on technical
stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.


I guess there's an exception to every rule, but
following him up the hill gave me some new perspective...


-Todd


Sent from mobile


On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick
Johnson via OBRA" <obra@list.obra.org>
wrote:


What is the
device propelling an electric bike called?

An electric motor.



So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail
means no motor propelled vehicles.



Rick

Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon


On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA
wrote:



Not sure I care, as long as they do not
change the trail, and come to trail build days. I
will not yield to someone using a motor,
especially if they are not maintaining the trails.


On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM,
"via OBRA" <obra@list.obra.org>

wrote:

In my
opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG
on trails such as you were riding!�� I have told
IMBA as much.�� If they gain official access to
areas like you were riding, it makes what the
anti- mountain bikers use as argument against
our access........."they are machines".�� If a
person can't use their own power to get them
physical power to get them in or out of an
area............they should not be
there...unless there is special access like
ADA.�� Not sure what official standing misc.
groups are taking on this (and I do want people
who desire to get outdoors into nature to have
access), but human powered access is what
mountain biking is about.�� The more riders focus
on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up
part gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle
runs, ski lift etc.�� ��I may be old, but I still
pedal my bike Arlo.�� Thanks for posting and if
people do not want electric powered bikes out
there, they should speak up before the
anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses
this for ammo.

ron s.



-----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA

Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM

To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a
Trail Near You Soon !



about a week ago a rider came up behind me on
the wilson river climb, which never happens, so
I started to put work, he still gained, more
work, finally he's behind me and I'm getting
gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman. the
first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing
hard, or pedaling!�� He was on an electric
assisted MTB!�� Not sure how everyone feels about
sharing our limited local trails with these
people but it is in fact against forrest rules
in tillamook state forrest so if you report
sightings the rangers they may do something.��
There are hundreds of miles of trails out there
for motorized users and just a couple dozen for
non-motorized use, so that's one way to look at
it.

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org








_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org







_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org







_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org












Matt Martel

2015-10-27

Of course there should always be some logical exceptions but I really hope
the trails dont get overrun with e-bikes.

- Matt

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Todd Mobley via OBRA
wrote:

> I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist
> full suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially
> on technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.
>
> I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill
> gave me some new perspective...
>
> -Todd
>
> Sent from mobile
> On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick Johnson via OBRA"
> wrote:
>
>> What is the device propelling an electric bike called?
>> An electric motor.
>>
>> So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor
>> propelled vehicles.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>> Bend, Oregon
>>
>>
>> On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:
>>
>> Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to
>> trail build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if
>> they are not maintaining the trails.
>> On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" <
>> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>>
>>> In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as
>>> you were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access
>>> to areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use
>>> as argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person
>>> can't use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out
>>> of an area............they should not be there...unless there is special
>>> access like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking
>>> on this (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to
>>> have access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about.
>>> The more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part
>>> gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be
>>> old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do
>>> not want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the
>>> anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
>>> ron s.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !
>>>
>>> about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb,
>>> which never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work,
>>> finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a
>>> gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or
>>> pedaling! He was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels
>>> about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact
>>> against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings
>>> the rangers they may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails
>>> out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized
>>> use, so that's one way to look at it.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


John Wilger

2015-10-27

> On Oct 27, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Todd Mobley via OBRA wrote:
>
> I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist full suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.
>
> I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill gave me some new perspective...

There���s some grey area here for sure. On the one hand, if you are a completely able-bodied person who is just too lazy to pedal yourself up the trail, then GTFO. On the other hand, I am in favor of anything that helps someone like the person you describe continue to participate in a sport from which they would otherwise be excluded through no fault of their own. The problem is, you don���t necessarily know that just by looking at someone; it���s not always a missing limb.

���
Regards,
John Wilger


Todd Mobley

2015-10-27

I don't know, I rode in Boise recently with a guy that had an e-assist full
suspension...and only one arm. The assist helps him climb, especially on
technical stuff, because he can't stand and pedal. He's a rad dude.

I guess there's an exception to every rule, but following him up the hill
gave me some new perspective...

-Todd

Sent from mobile
On Oct 26, 2015 8:16 PM, "Rick Johnson via OBRA" wrote:

> What is the device propelling an electric bike called?
> An electric motor.
>
> So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor
> propelled vehicles.
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>
>
> On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:
>
> Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to
> trail build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if
> they are not maintaining the trails.
> On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" wrote:
>
>> In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as
>> you were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access
>> to areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use
>> as argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person
>> can't use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out
>> of an area............they should not be there...unless there is special
>> access like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking
>> on this (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to
>> have access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about.
>> The more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part
>> gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be
>> old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do
>> not want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the
>> anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
>> ron s.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !
>>
>> about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb,
>> which never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work,
>> finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a
>> gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or
>> pedaling! He was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels
>> about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact
>> against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings
>> the rangers they may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails
>> out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized
>> use, so that's one way to look at it.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Rick Johnson

2015-10-27





What is the device propelling an electric bike called?

An electric motor.



So it seems pretty simple to me: Non-motorized trail means no motor
propelled vehicles.



Rick

Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon


On 10/26/2015 6:47 PM, Eric Aldinger
via OBRA wrote:



Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the
trail, and come to trail build days. I will not yield to someone
using a motor, especially if they are not maintaining the
trails.


On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" <obra@list.obra.org>
wrote:

In my
opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails
such as you were riding!�� I have told IMBA as much.�� If they
gain official access to areas like you were riding, it makes
what the anti- mountain bikers use as argument against our
access........."they are machines".�� If a person can't use
their own power to get them physical power to get them in or
out of an area............they should not be there...unless
there is special access like ADA.�� Not sure what official
standing misc. groups are taking on this (and I do want people
who desire to get outdoors into nature to have access), but
human powered access is what mountain biking is about.�� The
more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the
up part gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski
lift etc.�� ��I may be old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo.��
Thanks for posting and if people do not want electric powered
bikes out there, they should speak up before the anti-bikes on
natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.

ron s.



-----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA

Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM

To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You
Soon !



about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river
climb, which never happens, so I started to put work, he still
gained, more work, finally he's behind me and I'm getting
gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman. the first thing I
noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or pedaling!�� He was
on an electric assisted MTB!�� Not sure how everyone feels
about sharing our limited local trails with these people but
it is in fact against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest
so if you report sightings the rangers they may do something.��
There are hundreds of miles of trails out there for motorized
users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized use, so that's
one way to look at it.

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org








_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org





Eric Aldinger

2015-10-27

Not sure I care, as long as they do not change the trail, and come to trail
build days. I will not yield to someone using a motor, especially if they
are not maintaining the trails.
On Oct 26, 2015 5:47 PM, "via OBRA" wrote:

> In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as
> you were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access
> to areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use
> as argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person
> can't use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out
> of an area............they should not be there...unless there is special
> access like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking
> on this (and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to
> have access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about.
> The more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part
> gets harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be
> old, but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do
> not want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the
> anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
> ron s.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Arlo via OBRA
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !
>
> about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb,
> which never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work,
> finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a
> gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or
> pedaling! He was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels
> about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact
> against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings
> the rangers they may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails
> out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized
> use, so that's one way to look at it.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


rond..@spiritone.com

2015-10-27

In my opinion.....Electric powered bikes DO NOT BELONG on trails such as you
were riding! I have told IMBA as much. If they gain official access to
areas like you were riding, it makes what the anti- mountain bikers use as
argument against our access........."they are machines". If a person can't
use their own power to get them physical power to get them in or out of an
area............they should not be there...unless there is special access
like ADA. Not sure what official standing misc. groups are taking on this
(and I do want people who desire to get outdoors into nature to have
access), but human powered access is what mountain biking is about. The
more riders focus on not riding UP hills, but down them, the up part gets
harder for them....thus comes shuttle runs, ski lift etc. I may be old,
but I still pedal my bike Arlo. Thanks for posting and if people do not
want electric powered bikes out there, they should speak up before the
anti-bikes on natural surfaces movement uses this for ammo.
ron s.

-----Original Message-----
From: Arlo via OBRA
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:50 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Electric MTBs Coming to a Trail Near You Soon !

about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb, which
never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work, finally
he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman.
the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or pedaling! He
was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels about sharing
our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact against forrest
rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings the rangers they
may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails out there for
motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized use, so that's one
way to look at it.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


about a week ago a rider came up behind me on the wilson river climb, which never happens, so I started to put work, he still gained, more work, finally he's behind me and I'm getting gassed so I pulled over like a gentleman. the first thing I noticed is he's not even breathing hard, or pedaling! He was on an electric assisted MTB! Not sure how everyone feels about sharing our limited local trails with these people but it is in fact against forrest rules in tillamook state forrest so if you report sightings the rangers they may do something. There are hundreds of miles of trails out there for motorized users and just a couple dozen for non-motorized use, so that's one way to look at it.