USAC reminds me of why we love OBRA

Brian Hart

2015-12-07

Keep in mind that most of you are probably Oregon residents. Without any official USAC presence in Oregon, this means that your requests go straight to the USAC head in Colorado Springs. We, however, live in Washington, although we race almost exclusively in OBRA. So our request was automatically referred from USAC HQ to the WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association) tentacle, even though I pointed out the OBRA affiliation/participation at the outset. So your experience may be quite different from ours. But what kind of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde organization are they?


Robert

2015-12-07

They absolutely do not recognize OBRA results for upgrades OFFICIALLY. They do, however, tend to allow them for upgrades to a certain point - typically Cat 2. That may of recently changed when USAC put the WSBA "in charge" of Oregon . They appear to sticking pretty close to the rules.

On December 7, 2015 10:38:01 AM PST, Matt Ritzow via OBRA wrote:
>A bit of clarification on what USAC recognizes and what they do not.
>They
>absolutely recognize OBRA results in regards to USAC category upgrades
>as
>their requirements seem to mirror OBRA in both road and cx. I found
>their
>web portal simple to use and who ever was managing it quite responsive
>often issuing upgrades within 24hrs.
>As pointed out, they do not of course recognize any OBRA result in
>regard
>to ranking of riders which is used at nationals for callups.
>
>On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA
>
>wrote:
>
>> No one is asking that OBRA members participate in USAC without
>purchasing
>> USAC membership.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> Sent from a mobile device.
>>
>> On Dec 6, 2015, at 19:16, Robert wrote:
>>
>> It wouldn't be at all. But the key phrase was "purchase
>membership".....
>>
>> On December 6, 2015 7:12:40 PM PST, Mike Murray via OBRA <
>> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> The flaw in that argument is that OBRA already accepts USAC's rider
>>> categorization. If a rider who has never done any OBRA races shows
>up with
>>> a Cat 2 USAC license they can ride an OBRA Cat 2 race. If the
>purchase an
>>> annual membership they can win the OBRA Championships. How tough
>would it
>>> be for USAC to do it he same?
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>> Sent from a mobile device.
>>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2015, at 11:15, Robert via OBRA
>wrote:
>>>
>>> OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take
>part
>>> in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their rules?
>It's
>>> their championships, not OBRA'S.
>>>
>>> As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also
>>> understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to
>ride at
>>> nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder
>wants
>>> to ride at our championships.
>>>
>>> Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC
>rules .
>>>
>>> The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work
>out
>>> reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to
>DBH at
>>> USAC. I have.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA <
>>> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size.
>Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January.
>He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position
>comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved
>in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at
>least one obligatory USAC race.
>>>>
>>>> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to
>nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I
>blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in
>Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his
>license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there
>somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race
>Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the
>horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the
>field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>>>>
>>>> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account
>section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the
>world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I
>briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at
>14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is
>roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results
>this year and to his general OBRA results.
>>>>
>>>> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline
>approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his
>signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the
>status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria
>Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been
>referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>>>>
>>>> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to
>rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr
>registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the
>gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and
>single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the
>age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result
>links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps
>this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>>>>
>>>> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races
>can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely
>offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State
>Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin
>for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very
>considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat
>1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3.
>This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in
>Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish
>in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the
>Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to
>qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that
>many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of
>necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If
>that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization
>so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually
>implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>>>>
>>>> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA
>cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one
>statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The
>WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a
>solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are
>not there yet."
>>>>
>>>> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even
>"non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was
>just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made
>of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could
>possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't
>get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I
>could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red
>eyes.
>>>>
>>>> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters
>the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate
>cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we
>are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been
>around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade
>petition process if they actually wanted to.
>>>>
>>>> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about
>attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have
>generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser
>beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in
>"Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>>>>
>>>> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this
>unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid
>racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball
>OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>>>>
>>>> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would
>prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot:
>"The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the
>most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare
>that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote
>and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the
>tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety,
>participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>>>>
>>>> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want
>to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!)
>and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it
>will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I
>think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>>>>
>>>> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them
>irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you,
>USAC.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Matt Ritzow
>Bicycle Way of Life Inc.
>556 Charnelton St.
>Eugene, Or. 97401
>541-393-0147
>541-344-4150
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
>^•.•^< Sent by an Android


Matt Ritzow

2015-12-07

A bit of clarification on what USAC recognizes and what they do not. They
absolutely recognize OBRA results in regards to USAC category upgrades as
their requirements seem to mirror OBRA in both road and cx. I found their
web portal simple to use and who ever was managing it quite responsive
often issuing upgrades within 24hrs.
As pointed out, they do not of course recognize any OBRA result in regard
to ranking of riders which is used at nationals for callups.

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Mike Murray via OBRA
wrote:

> No one is asking that OBRA members participate in USAC without purchasing
> USAC membership.
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from a mobile device.
>
> On Dec 6, 2015, at 19:16, Robert wrote:
>
> It wouldn't be at all. But the key phrase was "purchase membership".....
>
> On December 6, 2015 7:12:40 PM PST, Mike Murray via OBRA <
> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>>
>> The flaw in that argument is that OBRA already accepts USAC's rider
>> categorization. If a rider who has never done any OBRA races shows up with
>> a Cat 2 USAC license they can ride an OBRA Cat 2 race. If the purchase an
>> annual membership they can win the OBRA Championships. How tough would it
>> be for USAC to do it he same?
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> Sent from a mobile device.
>>
>> On Dec 6, 2015, at 11:15, Robert via OBRA wrote:
>>
>> OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take part
>> in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their rules? It's
>> their championships, not OBRA'S.
>>
>> As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also
>> understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride at
>> nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder wants
>> to ride at our championships.
>>
>> Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .
>>
>> The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work out
>> reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to DBH at
>> USAC. I have.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA <
>> obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.
>>>
>>> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>>>
>>> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.
>>>
>>> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>>>
>>> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>>>
>>> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>>>
>>> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>>>
>>> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."
>>>
>>> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.
>>>
>>> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.
>>>
>>> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>>>
>>> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>>>
>>> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>>>
>>> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>>>
>>> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
> --
> >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Matt Ritzow
Bicycle Way of Life Inc.
556 Charnelton St.
Eugene, Or. 97401
541-393-0147
541-344-4150


Mike Murray

2015-12-07

No one is asking that OBRA members participate in USAC without purchasing USAC membership.

Mike Murray
Sent from a mobile device.

> On Dec 6, 2015, at 19:16, Robert wrote:
>
> It wouldn't be at all. But the key phrase was "purchase membership".....
>
>> On December 6, 2015 7:12:40 PM PST, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
>> The flaw in that argument is that OBRA already accepts USAC's rider categorization. If a rider who has never done any OBRA races shows up with a Cat 2 USAC license they can ride an OBRA Cat 2 race. If the purchase an annual membership they can win the OBRA Championships. How tough would it be for USAC to do it he same?
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> Sent from a mobile device.
>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2015, at 11:15, Robert via OBRA wrote:
>>>
>>> OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.
>>>
>>> As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder wants to ride at our championships.
>>>
>>> Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .
>>>
>>> The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work out reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to DBH at USAC. I have.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>> On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA wrote:
>>>> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.
>>>>
>>>> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>>>>
>>>> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.
>>>>
>>>> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>>>>
>>>> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>>>>
>>>> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>>>>
>>>> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."
>>>>
>>>> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.
>>>>
>>>> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.
>>>>
>>>> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>>>>
>>>> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>>>>
>>>> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>>>>
>>>> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>>>>
>>>> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
>>>>
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> --
>>> >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> --
> >^•.•^< Sent by an Android


Mike Murray

2015-12-07

USAC riders get call ups at OBRA races, if appropriate, even if they have never ridden an OBRA race before. So the answer to your question is that it doesn't bother anyone and seems to work. Basically we do give a free pass to USAC riders. If USAC were to recognize OBRA results what they would get is more business and and improved ability to identify talented riders.

Mike Murray
Sent from a mobile device.

> On Dec 6, 2015, at 16:01, Robert via OBRA wrote:
>
> Yes, USAC needs to recognize OBRA results. But they need something out of the deal, too. You cant reasonably expect to participate in their programs without without some accommodation of their policies or procedures. Just because someone had a USAC membership, we would not give them a free pass in our system either. How would our members feel if a USAC rider came in for a cross race, never having raced an OBRA race, and got a front row call up based on their USAC results? There would be a riot.
>
> None of these rules are new. USAC may of chosen to to not enforce them in the past, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. I know that doesn't help Brian, but that is the way things are currently. If we want to change that, then both the members of OBRA and USAC will need to work together to reach an equable solution. Or we can just continue to complain and not change anything.
>
> Like I said in my last email, email everyone and let them know how you feel. With the new CEO, USAC has become responsive.
>
> Robert
>
>> On 12/6/2015 15:46, rondot@spiritone.com wrote:
>> Robert,
>> You are right about doing it their way if you want play their game....but you are also WRONG. OBRA and USAC don’t need to work out any reciprocity.....USAC just needs to recognize OBRA results. Our races are every big as legit as their races.
>> Because they will not do that........racers like Brian suffer. So the only ones who can really qualify for the USAC Pony show are the ones who can afford to go out of state to race....be it their own funds or efforts by a group to support them. The opposite of what should get a racer to nationals.
>> I am happy you can play by both rules. Maybe OBRA and USAC will work out reciprocity at some point, but for Brian (and others) that does little this season.
>> ron strasser
>>
>> From: Robert via OBRA
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 11:15 AM
>> To: Brian Hart ; Brian Hart via OBRA ; obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] USAC reminds me of why we love OBRA
>>
>> OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.
>>
>> As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder wants to ride at our championships.
>>
>> Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .
>>
>> The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work out reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to DBH at USAC. I have.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>> On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA wrote:
>>> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.
>>>
>>> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>>>
>>> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.
>>>
>>> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>>>
>>> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>>>
>>> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>>>
>>> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>>>
>>> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."
>>>
>>> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.
>>>
>>> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.
>>>
>>> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>>>
>>> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>>>
>>> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>>>
>>> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>>>
>>> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
>>>
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> -- >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
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Robert

2015-12-07

It wouldn't be at all. But the key phrase was "purchase membership".....

On December 6, 2015 7:12:40 PM PST, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
>The flaw in that argument is that OBRA already accepts USAC's rider
>categorization. If a rider who has never done any OBRA races shows up
>with a Cat 2 USAC license they can ride an OBRA Cat 2 race. If the
>purchase an annual membership they can win the OBRA Championships. How
>tough would it be for USAC to do it he same?
>
>Mike Murray
>Sent from a mobile device.
>
>> On Dec 6, 2015, at 11:15, Robert via OBRA wrote:
>>
>> OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take
>part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their
>rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.
>>
>> As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also
>understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride
>at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder
>wants to ride at our championships.
>>
>> Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC
>rules .
>>
>> The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work
>out reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to
>DBH at USAC. I have.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>> On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA
> wrote:
>>> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size.
>Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January.
>He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position
>comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved
>in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at
>least one obligatory USAC race.
>>>
>>> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to
>nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I
>blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in
>Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his
>license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there
>somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race
>Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the
>horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the
>field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>>>
>>> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account
>section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the
>world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I
>briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at
>14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is
>roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results
>this year and to his general OBRA results.
>>>
>>> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline
>approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his
>signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the
>status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria
>Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been
>referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>>>
>>> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to
>rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr
>registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the
>gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and
>single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the
>age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result
>links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps
>this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>>>
>>> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races
>can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely
>offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State
>Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin
>for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very
>considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat
>1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3.
>This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in
>Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish
>in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the
>Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to
>qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>>>
>>> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that
>many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of
>necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If
>that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization
>so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually
>implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>>>
>>> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA
>cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one
>statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The
>WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a
>solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are
>not there yet."
>>>
>>> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even
>"non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was
>just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made
>of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could
>possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't
>get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I
>could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red
>eyes.
>>>
>>> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters
>the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate
>cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we
>are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been
>around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade
>petition process if they actually wanted to.
>>>
>>> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about
>attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have
>generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser
>beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in
>"Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>>>
>>> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this
>unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid
>racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball
>OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>>>
>>> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent
>a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision
>of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most
>successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that
>to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and
>develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools
>and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety,
>participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>>>
>>> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want
>to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!)
>and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it
>will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I
>think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>>>
>>> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them
>irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you,
>USAC.
>>>
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> --
>> >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
>^•.•^< Sent by an Android


Robert

2015-12-07

And like I said, there needs to be something in it for them as well, or we will be waiting for a long time. It can't be that they give and do not get - that is unrealistic.

Robert

...and I see that DBH is now cc'd on this thread - excellent. ;-)

On December 6, 2015 7:06:19 PM PST, Mike Murray via OBRA wrote:
>The question as to why they do this is really unanswered. The primary
>effect is to inhibit their ability to identify developing talented
>racers. This is in direct conflict with their mission statement. They
>lose business, Brian Jr losses an opportunity, OBRA looks good by
>comparison and loses nothing.
>
>This is a problem that we previously had solved with a reciprocity
>agreement. USAC unilaterally vacated that agreement. It is time they
>reconsider. OBRA is waiting.
>
>Mike Murray
>Sent from a mobile device.
>
>> On Dec 6, 2015, at 11:03, Brian Hart via OBRA
>wrote:
>>
>> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian
>Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He
>would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes
>from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in
>OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least
>one obligatory USAC race.
>>
>> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to
>nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I
>blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in
>Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his
>license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there
>somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race
>Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the
>horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the
>field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>>
>> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account
>section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the
>world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I
>briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at
>14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is
>roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results
>this year and to his general OBRA results.
>>
>> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline
>approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his
>signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the
>status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria
>Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been
>referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>>
>> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to
>rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr
>registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the
>gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and
>single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the
>age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result
>links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps
>this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>>
>> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races
>can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely
>offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State
>Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin
>for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very
>considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat
>1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3.
>This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in
>Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish
>in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the
>Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to
>qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>>
>> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that
>many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of
>necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If
>that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization
>so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually
>implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>>
>> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA
>cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one
>statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The
>WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a
>solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are
>not there yet."
>>
>> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even
>"non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was
>just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made
>of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could
>possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't
>get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I
>could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red
>eyes.
>>
>> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the
>attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling
>organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the
>purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around
>far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade
>petition process if they actually wanted to.
>>
>> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about
>attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have
>generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser
>beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in
>"Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>>
>> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this
>unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid
>racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball
>OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>>
>> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent
>a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision
>of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most
>successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that
>to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and
>develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools
>and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety,
>participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>>
>> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to
>waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and
>racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will
>probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think
>the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>>
>> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them
>irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you,
>USAC.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
>^•.•^< Sent by an Android


Mike Murray

2015-12-07

The flaw in that argument is that OBRA already accepts USAC's rider categorization. If a rider who has never done any OBRA races shows up with a Cat 2 USAC license they can ride an OBRA Cat 2 race. If the purchase an annual membership they can win the OBRA Championships. How tough would it be for USAC to do it he same?

Mike Murray
Sent from a mobile device.

> On Dec 6, 2015, at 11:15, Robert via OBRA wrote:
>
> OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.
>
> As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder wants to ride at our championships.
>
> Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .
>
> The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work out reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to DBH at USAC. I have.
>
> Robert
>
>> On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA wrote:
>> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.
>>
>> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>>
>> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.
>>
>> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>>
>> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>>
>> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>>
>> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>>
>> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."
>>
>> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.
>>
>> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.
>>
>> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>>
>> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>>
>> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>>
>> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>>
>> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
>>
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> --
> >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Mike Murray

2015-12-07

The question as to why they do this is really unanswered. The primary effect is to inhibit their ability to identify developing talented racers. This is in direct conflict with their mission statement. They lose business, Brian Jr losses an opportunity, OBRA looks good by comparison and loses nothing.

This is a problem that we previously had solved with a reciprocity agreement. USAC unilaterally vacated that agreement. It is time they reconsider. OBRA is waiting.

Mike Murray
Sent from a mobile device.

> On Dec 6, 2015, at 11:03, Brian Hart via OBRA wrote:
>
> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.
>
> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>
> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.
>
> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>
> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>
> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>
> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>
> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."
>
> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.
>
> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.
>
> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>
> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>
> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>
> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>
> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Robert

2015-12-07

I wish there was some way to "thumbs up" that. Oh wait.... ;)

On 12/6/2015 18:46, Dan Anderson wrote:
> I can't believe Lars van der Haar got a front row callup at Het Meer!
> Who does he think he is? Outrageous!!
>
> /s
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Robert via OBRA
> *To:* rondot@spiritone.com; Brian Hart ;
> obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 6, 2015 4:01 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] USAC reminds me of why we love OBRA
>
> Yes, USAC needs to recognize OBRA results. But they need something
> out of the deal, too. You cant reasonably expect to participate in
> their programs without without some accommodation of their policies or
> procedures. Just because someone had a USAC membership, we would not
> give them a free pass in our system either. How would our members
> feel if a USAC rider came in for a cross race, never having raced an
> OBRA race, and got a front row call up based on their USAC results?
> There would be a riot.
>
> None of these rules are new. USAC may of chosen to to not enforce
> them in the past, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. I know
> that doesn't help Brian, but that is the way things are currently. If
> we want to change that, then both the members of OBRA and USAC will
> need to work together to reach an equable solution. Or we can just
> continue to complain and not change anything.
>
> Like I said in my last email, email everyone and let them know how
> you feel. With the new CEO, USAC has become responsive.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> On 12/6/2015 15:46, rondot@spiritone.com
> wrote:
>> Robert,
>> You are right about doing it their way if you want play their
>> game....but you are also WRONG. OBRA and USAC don’t need to work out
>> any reciprocity.....USAC just needs to recognize OBRA results. Our
>> races are every big as legit as their races.
>> Because they will not do that........racers like Brian suffer. So
>> the only ones who can really qualify for the USAC Pony show are the
>> ones who can afford to go out of state to race....be it their own
>> funds or efforts by a group to support them. The opposite of what
>> should get a racer to nationals.
>> I am happy you can play by both rules. Maybe OBRA and USAC will work
>> out reciprocity at some point, but for Brian (and others) that does
>> little this season.
>> ron strasser
>> *From:* Robert via OBRA
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 06, 2015 11:15 AM
>> *To:* Brian Hart ; Brian Hart via
>> OBRA ; obra@list.obra.org
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] USAC reminds me of why we love OBRA
>> OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take
>> part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their
>> rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.
>>
>> As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also
>> understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride
>> at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC
>> ruder wants to ride at our championships.
>>
>> Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .
>>
>> The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work
>> out reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email
>> to DBH at USAC. I have.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA
>> wrote:
>>
>> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.
>>
>> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>>
>> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.
>>
>> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>>
>> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>>
>> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>>
>> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>>
>> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."
>>
>> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.
>>
>> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.
>>
>> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>>
>> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>>
>> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>>
>> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>>
>> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> -- >^•.•^< Sent by an Android
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>


Dan Anderson

2015-12-07

I can't believe Lars van der Haar got a front row callup at Het Meer!  Who does he think he is?  Outrageous!!
/s
From: Robert via OBRA
To: rondot@spiritone.com; Brian Hart ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2015 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] USAC reminds me of why we love OBRA

Yes, USAC needs to recognize OBRA results.  But they need something out of the deal, too.  You cant reasonably expect to participate in their programs without without some accommodation of their policies or procedures.  Just because someone had a USAC membership, we would not give them a free pass in our system either.  How would our members feel if a USAC rider came in for a cross race, never having raced an OBRA race, and got a front row call up based on their USAC results?  There would be a riot.

None of these rules are new.  USAC may of chosen to to not enforce them in the past, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist.  I know that doesn't help Brian, but that is the way things are currently.  If we want to change that, then both the members of OBRA and USAC will need to work together to reach an equable solution.  Or we can just continue to complain and not change anything.

Like I said in my last email,  email everyone and let them know how you feel.  With the new CEO, USAC has become responsive.

Robert

On 12/6/2015 15:46, rondot@spiritone.com wrote:

Robert, You are right about doing it their way if you want play their game....but you are also WRONG.  OBRA and USAC don’t need to work out any reciprocity.....USAC just needs to recognize OBRA results.  Our races are every big as legit as their races.  Because they will not do that........racers like Brian suffer.  So the only ones who can really qualify for the USAC Pony show are the ones who can afford to go out of state to race....be it their own funds or efforts by a group to support them.  The opposite of what should get a racer to nationals. I am happy you can play by both rules.  Maybe OBRA and USAC will work out reciprocity at some point, but for Brian (and others) that does little this season. ron strasser   From: Robert via OBRA Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 11:15 AM To: Brian Hart ; Brian Hart via OBRA ; obra@list.obra.org Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] USAC reminds me of why we love OBRA   OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.

As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder wants to ride at our championships.

Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .

The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work out reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to DBH at USAC. I have.

Robert

On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA wrote:
Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.

Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.

So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.

No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.

So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.

Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.

Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.

Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."

"Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.

But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.

And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".

But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?

While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."

So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.

No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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Robert

2015-12-07

Yes, USAC needs to recognize OBRA results. But they need something out
of the deal, too. You cant reasonably expect to participate in their
programs without without some accommodation of their policies or
procedures. Just because someone had a USAC membership, we would not
give them a free pass in our system either. How would our members feel
if a USAC rider came in for a cross race, never having raced an OBRA
race, and got a front row call up based on their USAC results? There
would be a riot.

None of these rules are new. USAC may of chosen to to not enforce them
in the past, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. I know that
doesn't help Brian, but that is the way things are currently. If we want
to change that, then both the members of OBRA and USAC will need to work
together to reach an equable solution. Or we can just continue to
complain and not change anything.

Like I said in my last email, email everyone and let them know how you
feel. With the new CEO, USAC has become responsive.

Robert

On 12/6/2015 15:46, rondot@spiritone.com wrote:
> Robert,
> You are right about doing it their way if you want play their
> game....but you are also WRONG. OBRA and USAC don’t need to work out
> any reciprocity.....USAC just needs to recognize OBRA results. Our
> races are every big as legit as their races.
> Because they will not do that........racers like Brian suffer. So the
> only ones who can really qualify for the USAC Pony show are the ones
> who can afford to go out of state to race....be it their own funds or
> efforts by a group to support them. The opposite of what should get a
> racer to nationals.
> I am happy you can play by both rules. Maybe OBRA and USAC will work
> out reciprocity at some point, but for Brian (and others) that does
> little this season.
> ron strasser
> *From:* Robert via OBRA
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 06, 2015 11:15 AM
> *To:* Brian Hart ; Brian Hart via
> OBRA ; obra@list.obra.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] USAC reminds me of why we love OBRA
> OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take
> part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their
> rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.
>
> As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also
> understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride
> at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder
> wants to ride at our championships.
>
> Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .
>
> The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work out
> reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to DBH
> at USAC. I have.
>
> Robert
>
> On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA
> wrote:
>
> Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.
>
> Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>
> So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.
>
> No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>
> So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>
> Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>
> Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.
>
> Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."
>
> "Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.
>
> But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.
>
> And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>
> But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>
> While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>
> So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>
> No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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>
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


rond..@spiritone.com

2015-12-06

Robert,
You are right about doing it their way if you want play their game....but you are also WRONG. OBRA and USAC don’t need to work out any reciprocity.....USAC just needs to recognize OBRA results. Our races are every big as legit as their races.
Because they will not do that........racers like Brian suffer. So the only ones who can really qualify for the USAC Pony show are the ones who can afford to go out of state to race....be it their own funds or efforts by a group to support them. The opposite of what should get a racer to nationals.
I am happy you can play by both rules. Maybe OBRA and USAC will work out reciprocity at some point, but for Brian (and others) that does little this season.
ron strasser

From: Robert via OBRA
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 11:15 AM
To: Brian Hart ; Brian Hart via OBRA ; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] USAC reminds me of why we love OBRA

OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.

As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder wants to ride at our championships.

Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .

The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work out reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to DBH at USAC. I have.

Robert

On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA wrote:
Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race. Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet.""Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.------------------------------------------------------------------------------OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Robert

2015-12-06

OBRA and USAC are in talks as far as I know. Also, you want to take part in USAC championships, but you are unwilling to play by their rules? It's their championships, not OBRA'S.

As a masters track racer, I deal with the same things. But I also understand that I live in two worlds OBRA and USAC. If I want to ride at nationals I need to conform to their rules, same as if a USAC ruder wants to ride at our championships.

Two immediate solutions here: Don't leave the state or go by USAC rules .

The ultimate solution here to encourage both USAC and OBRA to work out reciprocity so this isn't an issue in the future. Send an email to DBH at USAC. I have.

Robert

On December 6, 2015 11:03:51 AM PST, Brian Hart via OBRA wrote:
>Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian
>Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He
>would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes
>from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in
>OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least
>one obligatory USAC race.
>
>Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to
>nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I
>blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in
>Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his
>license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there
>somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race
>Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the
>horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the
>field is limited to somewhat faster riders.
>
>So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section,
>I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like
>a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point
>out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at
>15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly
>equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year
>and to his general OBRA results.
>
>No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline
>approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his
>signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the
>status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria
>Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been
>referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.
>
>So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush
>things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr
>registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the
>gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and
>single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the
>age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result
>links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps
>this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.
>
>Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can
>be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered
>to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle
>Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us
>by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate.
>Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB
>placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This
>request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in
>Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish
>in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the
>Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to
>qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.
>
>Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many
>upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity,
>USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for
>you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of
>itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a
>realistic upgrade petition process.
>
>Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross
>director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement
>in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been
>working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers
>who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."
>
>"Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even
>"non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was
>just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made
>of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could
>possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't
>get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I
>could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red
>eyes.
>
>But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the
>attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling
>organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the
>purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around
>far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade
>petition process if they actually wanted to.
>
>And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude.
>That would never be more than "we the true people have generously
>stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out
>there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New
>World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".
>
>But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this
>unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid
>racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball
>OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?
>
>While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a
>more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision
>of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most
>successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that
>to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and
>develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools
>and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety,
>participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."
>
>So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to
>waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and
>racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will
>probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think
>the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.
>
>No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant.
>But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
>^•.•^< Sent by an Android


Brian Hart

2015-12-06

Here is one more reason why we find that OBRA is just our size. Brian Jr is working out hard to race nationals in Ashville in January. He would like to race junior (17/18). We know that callup position comes from USAC points, so despite the fact that we are deeply involved in OBRA, he gives up a weekend to go to Fort Steilacoom to get in at least one obligatory USAC race.

Now it comes time for me to do all the logistics for getting him to nationals. I buy plane tickets. I get his USAC license renewed. I blithely log on and try to register him for Junior 17/18 nationals in Ashville. Hmmm...no junior 17/18 race registration available under his license. I dig further. I find the explanation buried in there somewhere: a male junior must be USAC Cat3 to be eligible to race Junior 17/18 at Nationals. Fair enough, I think; with U23 on the horizon for these older juniors, it seems reasonable to ensure that the field is limited to somewhat faster riders.

So I continue my trek through the USAC web. Under the account section, I finally locate the upgrade request. It looks, for all the world, like a reasonable petition. Post a race resume, it says. So I briefly point out his CX upgrade from Beginner to C at 12, C to B at 14, B to A at 15, now a year and a half in A's (which I point out is roughly equivalent to USAC Cat 1). I include links to his CX results this year and to his general OBRA results.

No response, and I see the December 12 early registration deadline approaching with its associated significant price jump. I send in his signed waiver & code of conduct, along with a query regarding the status of the upgrade request. I get a nice e-mail back from Gloria Arodak at USAC membership services indicating that this has been referred to Martha Walsh of Washington State Bicycle Association.

So I send an e-mail to Martha telling her that I am not trying to rush things, but that I would really like to be able to get Brian Jr registered before the price jumps next week. This time, I add the gratuitous facts that he has been racing MTB and short track Cat 1 and single speed and has raced the High Cascades 100 MTB race twice--at the age of 13, then again at 15. At least, I think, even if the result links are insufficient, USAC must have a contact in OBRA, and perhaps this would prompt them to reach out to OBRA for confirmation.

Marsha's response? USAC rules explicitly state that only USAC races can be considered in the upgrade petition process. She even nicely offered to have Gina Kavesh, president of WSBA (Washington State Bicycle Association), help by pounding some extra nails into the coffin for us by confirming all the reasons why they do this. How very considerate. Marsha also tells me that we can petition for a USAC Cat 1 MTB placement, which would automatically qualify him for CX Cat 3. This request which would be handled by the USAC Central Committee in Colorado. But I am pretty sure that Brian's sixth place series finish in Cat1 Short Track, a couple of Cat 1 mountain bike races, and the Oregon 24 solo and High Cascades 100 will not convince the Kremlin to qualify him as USAC MTB Cat 1.

Now, I fully also understand that part of the picture here is that many upper-level juniors have their sights set on UCI and, of necessity, USAC is probably the only path to UCI in this country. If that is for you, go for it. But none of that requires an organization so full of itself that it has never gone to the effort to actually implement a realistic upgrade petition process.

Now I get another nice e-mail, this time from Jim Wood, WSBA cyclocross director, with a courteous and detailed explanation. But one statement in Jim's e-mail stands out to me as the bottom line: "The WSBA has been working closely with USAC to try to come up with a solution for racers who race primarily unsanctioned races but we are not there yet."

"Unsanctioned races?" Not "OBRA-sanctioned races". Not even "non-USAC-sanctioned races". Nope. Just "unsanctioned races". This was just like the USAC account upgrade petition, where no mention was made of "USAC race resume", just "race resume". After all, who could possibly be dumb enough to want to race outside The Organization? Don't get me wrong; all of these folks seemed nice enough, and I am certain I could not pick them out of a crowd by looking for horns or glowing red eyes.

But I find something troubling about an organization that fosters the attitude in its membership that they are the only legitimate cycling organization in the country, the deeply-held belief that "we are the purveyors of all things sanctioned". Non-USAC racing has been around far too long for them to not have figured out a workable upgrade petition process if they actually wanted to.

And this is not really about reciprocity anyway; it is about attitude. That would never be more than "we the true people have generously stooped down to acknowledge the existence of you lesser beings out there." It makes one think of Huxley's John the Savage in "Brave New World" or E.M. Forster's Homeless in "The Machine Stops".

But it all kind of begs the question: are they doing this unintentionally, unaware of the fact that they are depriving solid racers of opportunities, or are they intentionally trying to blackball OBRA in the hopes that one day it will be swallowed by USAC?

While there is nothing in USAC's Vision Statement that would prevent a more open upgrade petition process, it may explain a lot: "The vision of USA Cycling is to make the United States of America the most successful country in the world of competitive cycling." Compare that to OBRA's mission statement, "The mission of OBRA is to promote and develop the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon by providing the tools and resources necessary for competition. OBRA values safety, participation, sportsmanship, teamwork, camaraderie and fun."

So, in the end, Brian Jr will be going to Nationals (we don't want to waste that plane ticket or let down his sponsors at Breadwinner!) and racing Single Speed, Open Men, and perhaps Industry Men. But it will probably be the last time a Hart ever spends a penny on USAC. I think the bridge USAC has been burning finally fell down for us.

No, we do not find USAC upsetting. Why bother? We find them irrelevant. But maybe that is just us. Thank you, OBRA, no thank you, USAC.