Dogs

=?utf-8?B?amZiZW5lbmF0ZUB5YWhvby5jb20=?=

2015-12-12

Once a Prince, always Royal.My Brother!
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------ Original message------From: Chad Butler via OBRA Date: Fri, Dec 11, 2015 7:33 AMTo: obra@list.obra.org;Subject:[OBRA Chat] Dogs
Instead of pepper spray try a spray from your water bottle straight at the face of the charging dog. You've already got a water bottle mounted to your bike that's easier to retrieve than pepper spray. It IS VERY EFFECTIVE. Nobody you're riding with will get pissed if the wind is blowing it their way. If it accidentally discharges or if a kid gets ahold of it there's no problem. A buddy of mine used to carry pepper spray until a canister accidentally discharged in his pocket. He was on a motorcycle trip at the time so he went straight to a laundromat where the washing machine distributed the pepper amoungst his combined load. Weapons often work that way. Ask the greater than 80% of gunshot victims who were injured by their own guns. Wars have no winners._______________________________________________OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


rond..@spiritone.com

2015-12-11

Or we can just deport all the dogs (don't forget the walls....north-south
and on both coasts) and not let any more in our country no matter their
religion....I mean breed. Truth is this is america, each of you will do
what "you" want with this out of hand dog situation.....right?
Now what I am tired of is cross promoters designating the inside of a corner
with a few cones instead of a post, and tape! Do the work to keep riders on
the course.
Go ride a bike people!!!!
ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Johnson via OBRA
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 9:27 AM
To: Chad Butler ; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Dogs

But a squirt from a water bottle has the opposite effect on people - so
pepper spray has more than one application.
And I will never drink all my pepper spray on a hot day.

On 12/11/2015 7:33 AM, Chad Butler via OBRA wrote:
> Instead of pepper spray try a spray from your water bottle straight at the
> face of the charging dog. You've already got a water bottle mounted to
> your bike that's easier to retrieve than pepper spray. It IS VERY
> EFFECTIVE. Nobody you're riding with will get pissed if the wind is
> blowing it their way. If it accidentally discharges or if a kid gets ahold
> of it there's no problem.
> A buddy of mine used to carry pepper spray until a canister
> accidentally discharged in his pocket. He was on a motorcycle trip at the
> time so he went straight to a laundromat where the washing machine
> distributed the pepper amoungst his combined load. Weapons often work that
> way. Ask the greater than 80% of gunshot victims who were injured by their
> own guns. Wars have no winners.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Rick Johnson

2015-12-11

But a squirt from a water bottle has the opposite effect on people - so
pepper spray has more than one application.
And I will never drink all my pepper spray on a hot day.

On 12/11/2015 7:33 AM, Chad Butler via OBRA wrote:
> Instead of pepper spray try a spray from your water bottle straight at the face of the charging dog. You've already got a water bottle mounted to your bike that's easier to retrieve than pepper spray. It IS VERY EFFECTIVE. Nobody you're riding with will get pissed if the wind is blowing it their way. If it accidentally discharges or if a kid gets ahold of it there's no problem.
> A buddy of mine used to carry pepper spray until a canister accidentally discharged in his pocket. He was on a motorcycle trip at the time so he went straight to a laundromat where the washing machine distributed the pepper amoungst his combined load. Weapons often work that way. Ask the greater than 80% of gunshot victims who were injured by their own guns. Wars have no winners.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


stevea.long

2015-12-11

Has this ever worked on a pit bull or rottweiler in attack mode? I can tell from personal experience, an emphatic NO!

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Chad Butler via OBRA
Date:12/11/2015 7:33 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs

Instead of pepper spray try a spray from your water bottle straight at the face of the charging dog. You've already got a water bottle mounted to your bike that's easier to retrieve than pepper spray. It IS VERY EFFECTIVE. Nobody you're riding with will get pissed if the wind is blowing it their way. If it accidentally discharges or if a kid gets ahold of it there's no problem.
A buddy of mine used to carry pepper spray until a canister accidentally discharged in his pocket. He was on a motorcycle trip at the time so he went straight to a laundromat where the washing machine distributed the pepper amoungst his combined load. Weapons often work that way. Ask the greater than 80% of gunshot victims who were injured by their own guns. Wars have no winners.
_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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John Wilger

2015-12-11

> On Dec 11, 2015, at 7:33 AM, Chad Butler via OBRA wrote:
>
> Instead of pepper spray try a spray from your water bottle straight at the face of the charging dog. You've already got a water bottle mounted to your bike that's easier to retrieve than pepper spray. It IS VERY EFFECTIVE. Nobody you're riding with will get pissed if the wind is blowing it their way. If it accidentally discharges or if a kid gets ahold of it there's no problem.
> A buddy of mine used to carry pepper spray until a canister accidentally discharged in his pocket. He was on a motorcycle trip at the time so he went straight to a laundromat where the washing machine distributed the pepper amoungst his combined load. Weapons often work that way. Ask the greater than 80% of gunshot victims who were injured by their own guns. Wars have no winners.

Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that, if being run down by a dog when you are on your bicycle is a problem for you, the clear answer is just that you need to train harder. :->

���
Regards,
John Wilger
+1 971-678-0999


Chad Butler

2015-12-11

Instead of pepper spray try a spray from your water bottle straight at the face of the charging dog. You've already got a water bottle mounted to your bike that's easier to retrieve than pepper spray. It IS VERY EFFECTIVE. Nobody you're riding with will get pissed if the wind is blowing it their way. If it accidentally discharges or if a kid gets ahold of it there's no problem.
A buddy of mine used to carry pepper spray until a canister accidentally discharged in his pocket. He was on a motorcycle trip at the time so he went straight to a laundromat where the washing machine distributed the pepper amoungst his combined load. Weapons often work that way. Ask the greater than 80% of gunshot victims who were injured by their own guns. Wars have no winners.


je..@ultrafreaks.net

2015-12-11

It is a great summary, good perspective and probably the correct path in most cases.  That said, I can't help but think of the late Timothy Treadwell, the Grizzly Man in Alaska that thought he had befriended bears.  Or the guy that fed sharks every day in the surf until one of them bit his leg off.  Unfortunately animals can't always sense the love that we send their way.





-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Dogs

From: jfbenenate@yahoo.com via OBRA <obra@list.obra.org>

Date: Wed, December 09, 2015 10:19 am

To: obra@list.obra.org




nice letter chad.



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------ Original message------


From: chad butler via OBRA


Date: Wed, Dec 9, 2015 8:03 AM



Subject:[OBRA Chat] Dogs




I just felt a little reaction to someone saying that a pump with a ball of tape on the end is good for wackin' dogs....  I live in the sticks. Nobody out here keeps their dogs fenced, and the dogs see way less human traffic so their sense of duty when they recognize a threat is on high. I used to wear a heart monitor and I'd notice my HR start to spike as I'd near the 'problem dog' zones. When I started training regularly with a partner I noticed that he went into 'Red Alert' even quicker than I did. That observation helped me change my entire interaction, which affected the outcome even more than I could have earlier believed. Previously I saw dogs as battle options, and I'd prepare to evade if they gave chase, and lots of them did. Now in those same areas I greet the dogs as I arrive and tell them how happy I am to see them running and barking, healthy and happy. I don't dare stop and try to interact, that would only confuse them and get me bitten, but when they hear by tone that I 'm not a threat and that I enjoy their 'game of duty' these situations never turn to aggression like they used to. It's not just that I've got the dogs trained. It's me that's trained and it works with new dogs I come across just as well as the ol' familiars. If by chance a dog does seem overly aggressive a quick squirt from my water bottle towards their face will stop them dead in their tracks, completely harmlessly. The LAST thing you'd ever want to train a dog to do is to battle with cyclists, but if that's the game cyclists play then the dogs'll oblige them. Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles upon you. The reflected option of holding joy and loving peace also creates it's own recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long as you know the option exists you can have the reality of your choosing. _______________________________________________OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org



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I'm not calling animal control or the police at ALL, when I'm, like I said, literally the ONLY cyclist out here. You don't think Bubba is gonna know who called, when the sheriff rolls up and says "a cyclist reported on you about ol' Blue?"

Then instead of ol' Blue, next time I roll through I get ol' Blue AND his shotgun-wielding meth-cook owner.

Think outside the box, boys. Tattling doesn't always work.


d..@bicyclerepairman.us

2015-12-10

Calling animal control is fine for the future but pepper spray or other
defense tools are for an immediate threat.
I'm not calling 911 while a rottweiler chews on my ankle!

On 2015-12-11 00:51, stevea.long via OBRA wrote:
> A better choice than pepper spray is a call to animal
> services/control. If the dog is coming out onto the public roadway and
> is menacing, the owner will get a visit from them. Repeat offenders
> will usually get a fine and if corrective action isn't taken, it bodes
> not well for that owners dog.
>
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S��4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Ben via OBRA
> Date:12/10/2015 10:11 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Cc:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs
>
> Yeeaaa, I dunno, man. I know dogs are a damn menace, up here in
> Columbia county. Almost all of my favorite climbs - Pisgah Home,
> Mountain View, Cater, Stone... all have big, nasty dogs that HATE
> cyclists. Or at least me. Maybe they're just helmet nazis. You might
> have the nerve to talk sweetly at a frothing rottweiler as it's
> charging at you, clearly demonstrating its intent to rip you off your
> bike and eat parts of you, but usually I'm saving my breath for the
> sprint. I've thought about carrying a little pistol, or calling the
> police, but guess what.... I'm the ONLY cyclist out here. It's not
> like I'm gonna be anonymous. Wouldn't ever be riding that road, again,
> and I love those roads.
>
> Pepper spray, man. Doesn't injure the dog, gets the message across, is
> cheap, and most importantly - light weight. And it's not like the
> owner can come after you for defending yourself with a non-lethal
> method, especially since he knows damn well you'd be justified in
> using much harsher means, out there in the middle of a public road in
> the middle of public nowhere.
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d..@bicyclerepairman.us

2015-12-10

BTW, I used to carry pepper as well but met a couple dogs that did not
seem to care or the wind was wrong or you have to hit their eyes and
it's a small moving target. I find water works just as well or better
than pepper for dog deterrent.

On 2015-12-10 23:41, Ben via OBRA wrote:
> Yeeaaa, I dunno, man. I know dogs are a damn menace, up here in
> Columbia county. Almost all of my favorite climbs - Pisgah Home,
> Mountain View, Cater, Stone... all have big, nasty dogs that HATE
> cyclists. Or at least me. Maybe they're just helmet nazis. You might
> have the nerve to talk sweetly at a frothing rottweiler as it's
> charging at you, clearly demonstrating its intent to rip you off your
> bike and eat parts of you, but usually I'm saving my breath for the
> sprint. I've thought about carrying a little pistol, or calling the
> police, but guess what.... I'm the ONLY cyclist out here. It's not
> like I'm gonna be anonymous. Wouldn't ever be riding that road, again,
> and I love those roads.
>
> Pepper spray, man. Doesn't injure the dog, gets the message across, is
> cheap, and most importantly - light weight. And it's not like the
> owner can come after you for defending yourself with a non-lethal
> method, especially since he knows damn well you'd be justified in
> using much harsher means, out there in the middle of a public road in
> the middle of public nowhere.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


stevea.long

2015-12-10

A better choice than pepper spray is a call to animal services/control. If the dog is coming out onto the public roadway and is menacing, the owner will get a visit from them. Repeat offenders will usually get a fine and if corrective action isn't taken, it bodes not well for that owners dog. 

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Ben via OBRA
Date:12/10/2015 10:11 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs

Yeeaaa, I dunno, man. I know dogs are a damn menace, up here in Columbia county. Almost all of my favorite climbs - Pisgah Home, Mountain View, Cater, Stone... all have big, nasty dogs that HATE cyclists. Or at least me. Maybe they're just helmet nazis. You might have the nerve to talk sweetly at a frothing rottweiler as it's charging at you, clearly demonstrating its intent to rip you off your bike and eat parts of you, but usually I'm saving my breath for the sprint. I've thought about carrying a little pistol, or calling the police, but guess what.... I'm the ONLY cyclist out here. It's not like I'm gonna be anonymous. Wouldn't ever be riding that road, again, and I love those roads.

Pepper spray, man. Doesn't injure the dog, gets the message across, is cheap, and most importantly - light weight. And it's not like the owner can come after you for defending yourself with a non-lethal method, especially since he knows damn well you'd be justified in using much harsher means, out there in the middle of a public road in the middle of public nowhere.
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Rick Johnson

2015-12-10

Yes, pepper spray is a good choice. I have a friend that is a dog
trainer (who sometimes trains police dogs even) - pepper spray is both
his advice and his personal choice to carry.

You would be well advised to practice spraying it under controlled
conditions so that you understand the characteristics of the spray
pattern and range. Each product is different, some fan out for close
range affect, others project more of a stream that increases the range
and minimizes the chance of blow back.

And it's very important to pay attention to the wind direction if you
ever have to deploy it - especially if you are riding with a group.

On 12/10/2015 10:11 AM, Ben via OBRA wrote:
> Yeeaaa, I dunno, man. I know dogs are a damn menace, up here in Columbia county. Almost all of my favorite climbs - Pisgah Home, Mountain View, Cater, Stone... all have big, nasty dogs that HATE cyclists. Or at least me. Maybe they're just helmet nazis. You might have the nerve to talk sweetly at a frothing rottweiler as it's charging at you, clearly demonstrating its intent to rip you off your bike and eat parts of you, but usually I'm saving my breath for the sprint. I've thought about carrying a little pistol, or calling the police, but guess what.... I'm the ONLY cyclist out here. It's not like I'm gonna be anonymous. Wouldn't ever be riding that road, again, and I love those roads.
>
> Pepper spray, man. Doesn't injure the dog, gets the message across, is cheap, and most importantly - light weight. And it's not like the owner can come after you for defending yourself with a non-lethal method, especially since he knows damn well you'd be justified in using much harsher means, out there in the middle of a public road in the middle of public nowhere.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Yeeaaa, I dunno, man. I know dogs are a damn menace, up here in Columbia county. Almost all of my favorite climbs - Pisgah Home, Mountain View, Cater, Stone... all have big, nasty dogs that HATE cyclists. Or at least me. Maybe they're just helmet nazis. You might have the nerve to talk sweetly at a frothing rottweiler as it's charging at you, clearly demonstrating its intent to rip you off your bike and eat parts of you, but usually I'm saving my breath for the sprint. I've thought about carrying a little pistol, or calling the police, but guess what.... I'm the ONLY cyclist out here. It's not like I'm gonna be anonymous. Wouldn't ever be riding that road, again, and I love those roads.

Pepper spray, man. Doesn't injure the dog, gets the message across, is cheap, and most importantly - light weight. And it's not like the owner can come after you for defending yourself with a non-lethal method, especially since he knows damn well you'd be justified in using much harsher means, out there in the middle of a public road in the middle of public nowhere.


Chad Butler

2015-12-10

Mortimer, for some people it's appropriate to shoot first. Consistantly, and constantly.


d..@bicyclerepairman.us

2015-12-10

I get it now.

On 2015-12-10 06:30, Mortimer Constagliari via OBRA wrote:
> As you have written about hitting the dogs, I am who should respond.
> The climb on the bike and bite my damn shoes and ankles snapped and
> bitten, I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for stupid dog. I used to not
> care, until I was attacked multiple times. Now I care! I do not
> believe this shit bull peaceful on the preparation of a dog to fight
> you. I can not control how the dog behaves just the dog and its Hill
> Billy white trash owner can and do not.
>
> Screw the dog. I am not ripped off my bike by a fat pitbull. What a
> bunch of crap. I bet you think your wallet to keep a gunman being shot
> you, too. In Barcelona, in some places, if you do not carry a weapon
> for dogs that become dog food! They will eat you up. Kill you. They do
> not care if you like or do not want to fight them.
> _______________________________________________
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Mortimer Constagliari

2015-12-10

As you have written about hitting the dogs, I am who should respond. The climb on the bike and bite my damn shoes and ankles snapped and bitten, I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for stupid dog. I used to not care, until I was attacked multiple times. Now I care! I do not believe this shit bull peaceful on the preparation of a dog to fight you. I can not control how the dog behaves just the dog and its Hill Billy white trash owner can and do not.

Screw the dog. I am not ripped off my bike by a fat pitbull. What a bunch of crap. I bet you think your wallet to keep a gunman being shot you, too. In Barcelona, in some places, if you do not carry a weapon for dogs that become dog food! They will eat you up. Kill you. They do not care if you like or do not want to fight them.


Zachary Goude

2015-12-09

No. No thread dropping. No one peed in the bushes this year, so nothing to
talk about on the off season. PLEASE keep it comin!!! /s

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 2:01 PM, Thom Schoenborn via OBRA wrote:

> FFS can we just stop this whole thread right now?
>
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Rick Johnson via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/9/2015 11:30 AM, My Computer via OBRA wrote:
>>
>> *Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings
>> those battles upon you. *
>>
>>
>> I guess I should throw out my fire extinguishers now - since it's so much
>> more peaceful knowing that fire won't come to me if I'm not prepared.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
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>
>


John Wilger

2015-12-09

Foul on the play: Defense offered an invalid comparison between an animal and a fire. 5-yard penalty, repeat 1st down.

--
Regards,
John Wilger
+1 971-678-0999

> On Dec 9, 2015, at 1:01 PM, Rick Johnson via OBRA wrote:
>
>> On 12/9/2015 11:30 AM, My Computer via OBRA wrote:
>> Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles upon you.
>
> I guess I should throw out my fire extinguishers now - since it's so much more peaceful knowing that fire won't come to me if I'm not prepared.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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Thom Schoenborn

2015-12-09

FFS can we just stop this whole thread right now?

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Rick Johnson via OBRA
wrote:

> On 12/9/2015 11:30 AM, My Computer via OBRA wrote:
>
> *Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those
> battles upon you. *
>
>
> I guess I should throw out my fire extinguishers now - since it's so much
> more peaceful knowing that fire won't come to me if I'm not prepared.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Rick Johnson

2015-12-09





On 12/9/2015 11:30 AM, My Computer via
OBRA wrote:


Simply
carrying a weapon
and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles
upon you.



I guess I should throw out my fire extinguishers now - since it's so
much more peaceful knowing that fire won't come to me if I'm not
prepared.




My Computer

2015-12-09

Excellent post....this part seems like it would solve more problem in the
world than just dealing with dogs....

*Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those
battles upon you. The reflected option of holding joy and loving peace also
creates it's own recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long
as you know the option exists you can have the reality of your choosing. *

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:43 AM, via OBRA wrote:

> Steve,
> You are right regarding the law in general. There even are some dog
> owners who want their dogs to create terror! The law will take care of
> them in the end. We hope without pain and suffering to others.
> Most dogs are doing what Chad pointed out...reacting to movement and their
> territory. We, as the species who domesticized them it seems would be able
> to find ways other than harming them to discourage their behavior. Just as
> Chad pointed out. Being animals, like dogs, we at times make the choice to
> harm them. Humans are pretty good at figuring out how to harm as well as
> care.
> At least they cannot ride bikes and keep up with us over the long haul.
> ron
>
> *From:* stevea.long via OBRA
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 09, 2015 9:02 AM
> *To:* chad butler ; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Dogs
>
> No matter what your interaction or reaction to dogs not contained on the
> owner's property, it remains the OWNER'S responsibility to make sure their
> dogs are not a menace on public property, which includes public roadways.
> When this is not done, owners are subject to being addressed and possibly
> fined by animal control. I have seen cases where owners were sued and had
> to pay large sums of money for not containing their animals. In these
> cases, it often happens that their dogs caused injury to someone using the
> public roadway.
>
> Steve
>
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: chad butler via OBRA
> Date:12/09/2015 8:03 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Cc:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs
>
> I just felt a little reaction to someone saying that a pump with a ball of
> tape on the end is good for wackin' dogs.... I live in the sticks. Nobody
> out here keeps their dogs fenced, and the dogs see way less human traffic
> so their sense of duty when they recognize a threat is on high. I used to
> wear a heart monitor and I'd notice my HR start to spike as I'd near the
> 'problem dog' zones. When I started training regularly with a partner I
> noticed that he went into 'Red Alert' even quicker than I did. That
> observation helped me change my entire interaction, which affected the
> outcome even more than I could have earlier believed. Previously I saw dogs
> as battle options, and I'd prepare to evade if they gave chase, and lots of
> them did. Now in those same areas I greet the dogs as I arrive and tell
> them how happy I am to see them running and barking, healthy and happy. I
> don't dare stop and try to interact, that would only confuse them and get
> me bitten, but when they hear by tone that I
> 'm not a threat and that I enjoy their 'game of duty' these situations
> never turn to aggression like they used to. It's not just that I've got the
> dogs trained. It's me that's trained and it works with new dogs I come
> across just as well as the ol' familiars. If by chance a dog does seem
> overly aggressive a quick squirt from my water bottle towards their face
> will stop them dead in their tracks, completely harmlessly. The LAST thing
> you'd ever want to train a dog to do is to battle with cyclists, but if
> that's the game cyclists play then the dogs'll oblige them. Simply carrying
> a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles upon you.
> The reflected option of holding joy and loving peace also creates it's own
> recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long as you know the
> option exists you can have the reality of your choosing.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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rond..@spiritone.com

2015-12-09

Steve,
You are right regarding the law in general. There even are some dog owners who want their dogs to create terror! The law will take care of them in the end. We hope without pain and suffering to others.
Most dogs are doing what Chad pointed out...reacting to movement and their territory. We, as the species who domesticized them it seems would be able to find ways other than harming them to discourage their behavior. Just as Chad pointed out. Being animals, like dogs, we at times make the choice to harm them. Humans are pretty good at figuring out how to harm as well as care.
At least they cannot ride bikes and keep up with us over the long haul.
ron

From: stevea.long via OBRA
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 9:02 AM
To: chad butler ; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Dogs

No matter what your interaction or reaction to dogs not contained on the owner's property, it remains the OWNER'S responsibility to make sure their dogs are not a menace on public property, which includes public roadways. When this is not done, owners are subject to being addressed and possibly fined by animal control. I have seen cases where owners were sued and had to pay large sums of money for not containing their animals. In these cases, it often happens that their dogs caused injury to someone using the public roadway.

Steve

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: chad butler via OBRA
Date:12/09/2015 8:03 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs

I just felt a little reaction to someone saying that a pump with a ball of tape on the end is good for wackin' dogs.... I live in the sticks. Nobody out here keeps their dogs fenced, and the dogs see way less human traffic so their sense of duty when they recognize a threat is on high. I used to wear a heart monitor and I'd notice my HR start to spike as I'd near the 'problem dog' zones. When I started training regularly with a partner I noticed that he went into 'Red Alert' even quicker than I did. That observation helped me change my entire interaction, which affected the outcome even more than I could have earlier believed. Previously I saw dogs as battle options, and I'd prepare to evade if they gave chase, and lots of them did. Now in those same areas I greet the dogs as I arrive and tell them how happy I am to see them running and barking, healthy and happy. I don't dare stop and try to interact, that would only confuse them and get me bitten, but when they hear by tone that I
'm not a threat and that I enjoy their 'game of duty' these situations never turn to aggression like they used to. It's not just that I've got the dogs trained. It's me that's trained and it works with new dogs I come across just as well as the ol' familiars. If by chance a dog does seem overly aggressive a quick squirt from my water bottle towards their face will stop them dead in their tracks, completely harmlessly. The LAST thing you'd ever want to train a dog to do is to battle with cyclists, but if that's the game cyclists play then the dogs'll oblige them. Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles upon you. The reflected option of holding joy and loving peace also creates it's own recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long as you know the option exists you can have the reality of your choosing.
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=?utf-8?B?amZiZW5lbmF0ZUB5YWhvby5jb20=?=

2015-12-09

nice letter chad.
T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network.

------ Original message------From: chad butler via OBRA Date: Wed, Dec 9, 2015 8:03 AMTo: obra@list.obra.org;Subject:[OBRA Chat] Dogs
I just felt a little reaction to someone saying that a pump with a ball of tape on the end is good for wackin' dogs.... I live in the sticks. Nobody out here keeps their dogs fenced, and the dogs see way less human traffic so their sense of duty when they recognize a threat is on high. I used to wear a heart monitor and I'd notice my HR start to spike as I'd near the 'problem dog' zones. When I started training regularly with a partner I noticed that he went into 'Red Alert' even quicker than I did. That observation helped me change my entire interaction, which affected the outcome even more than I could have earlier believed. Previously I saw dogs as battle options, and I'd prepare to evade if they gave chase, and lots of them did. Now in those same areas I greet the dogs as I arrive and tell them how happy I am to see them running and barking, healthy and happy. I don't dare stop and try to interact, that would only confuse them and get me bitten, but when they hear by tone that I 'm not a threat and that I enjoy their 'game of duty' these situations never turn to aggression like they used to. It's not just that I've got the dogs trained. It's me that's trained and it works with new dogs I come across just as well as the ol' familiars. If by chance a dog does seem overly aggressive a quick squirt from my water bottle towards their face will stop them dead in their tracks, completely harmlessly. The LAST thing you'd ever want to train a dog to do is to battle with cyclists, but if that's the game cyclists play then the dogs'll oblige them. Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles upon you. The reflected option of holding joy and loving peace also creates it's own recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long as you know the option exists you can have the reality of your choosing. _______________________________________________OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Chad Butler

2015-12-09

I live in Open Range. No fences are required by any animal owners (mostly ranchers) and it's the roadway users' responsibility to avoid dangers. I'm more familiar with dogs because I see them more often, and have some of my own, but I also come across bear, cougar, and quite frequently bobcats. I can't hold their owners responsible so I've learned to live with nature instead of against it.


Thom Schoenborn

2015-12-09

There was a house on MacBeth outside of Eugene that used to have a big
spray-painted sign that said something like, "Suicidal Dog Here: Please
Slow Down."

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:02 AM, stevea.long via OBRA
wrote:

> No matter what your interaction or reaction to dogs not contained on the
> owner's property, it remains the OWNER'S responsibility to make sure their
> dogs are not a menace on public property, which includes public roadways.
> When this is not done, owners are subject to being addressed and possibly
> fined by animal control. I have seen cases where owners were sued and had
> to pay large sums of money for not containing their animals. In these
> cases, it often happens that their dogs caused injury to someone using the
> public roadway.
>
> Steve
>
> Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: chad butler via OBRA
> Date:12/09/2015 8:03 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Cc:
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs
>
> I just felt a little reaction to someone saying that a pump with a ball of
> tape on the end is good for wackin' dogs.... I live in the sticks. Nobody
> out here keeps their dogs fenced, and the dogs see way less human traffic
> so their sense of duty when they recognize a threat is on high. I used to
> wear a heart monitor and I'd notice my HR start to spike as I'd near the
> 'problem dog' zones. When I started training regularly with a partner I
> noticed that he went into 'Red Alert' even quicker than I did. That
> observation helped me change my entire interaction, which affected the
> outcome even more than I could have earlier believed. Previously I saw dogs
> as battle options, and I'd prepare to evade if they gave chase, and lots of
> them did. Now in those same areas I greet the dogs as I arrive and tell
> them how happy I am to see them running and barking, healthy and happy. I
> don't dare stop and try to interact, that would only confuse them and get
> me bitten, but when they hear by tone that I
> 'm not a threat and that I enjoy their 'game of duty' these situations
> never turn to aggression like they used to. It's not just that I've got the
> dogs trained. It's me that's trained and it works with new dogs I come
> across just as well as the ol' familiars. If by chance a dog does seem
> overly aggressive a quick squirt from my water bottle towards their face
> will stop them dead in their tracks, completely harmlessly. The LAST thing
> you'd ever want to train a dog to do is to battle with cyclists, but if
> that's the game cyclists play then the dogs'll oblige them. Simply carrying
> a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles upon you.
> The reflected option of holding joy and loving peace also creates it's own
> recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long as you know the
> option exists you can have the reality of your choosing.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


d..@bicyclerepairman.us

2015-12-09

I completely agree with Chad about reacting to dogs. They seem to know
when you get defensive. Mostly they are just saying "I don't know you,
you are approaching my territory".
Dodgs in Chad's neighborhood must be smarter about traffic than mine. If
my dog ran loose, I would fear for her life or being stolen.
The conflict between dogs and cyclists is as old as bicycles as
evidenced by the existence of this "Velo-Dog" gun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velo-dog

On 2015-12-09 21:33, chad butler via OBRA wrote:
> I just felt a little reaction to someone saying that a pump with a
> ball of tape on the end is good for wackin' dogs.... I live in the
> sticks. Nobody out here keeps their dogs fenced, and the dogs see way
> less human traffic so their sense of duty when they recognize a threat
> is on high. I used to wear a heart monitor and I'd notice my HR start
> to spike as I'd near the 'problem dog' zones. When I started training
> regularly with a partner I noticed that he went into 'Red Alert' even
> quicker than I did. That observation helped me change my entire
> interaction, which affected the outcome even more than I could have
> earlier believed. Previously I saw dogs as battle options, and I'd
> prepare to evade if they gave chase, and lots of them did. Now in
> those same areas I greet the dogs as I arrive and tell them how happy
> I am to see them running and barking, healthy and happy. I don't dare
> stop and try to interact, that would only confuse them and get me
> bitten, but when they hear by tone that I
> 'm not a threat and that I enjoy their 'game of duty' these
> situations never turn to aggression like they used to. It's not just
> that I've got the dogs trained. It's me that's trained and it works
> with new dogs I come across just as well as the ol' familiars. If by
> chance a dog does seem overly aggressive a quick squirt from my water
> bottle towards their face will stop them dead in their tracks,
> completely harmlessly. The LAST thing you'd ever want to train a dog
> to do is to battle with cyclists, but if that's the game cyclists play
> then the dogs'll oblige them. Simply carrying a weapon and holding the
> intent to do battle brings those battles upon you. The reflected
> option of holding joy and loving peace also creates it's own
> recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long as you know
> the option exists you can have the reality of your choosing.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


stevea.long

2015-12-09

No matter what your interaction or reaction to dogs not contained on the owner's property, it remains the OWNER'S responsibility to make sure their dogs are not a menace on public property, which includes public roadways. When this is not done, owners are subject to being addressed and possibly fined by animal control. I have seen cases where owners were sued and had to pay large sums of money for not containing their animals. In these cases,  it often happens that their dogs caused injury to someone using the public roadway.

Steve

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: chad butler via OBRA
Date:12/09/2015 8:03 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs

I just felt a little reaction to someone saying that a pump with a ball of tape on the end is good for wackin' dogs.... I live in the sticks. Nobody out here keeps their dogs fenced, and the dogs see way less human traffic so their sense of duty when they recognize a threat is on high. I used to wear a heart monitor and I'd notice my HR start to spike as I'd near the 'problem dog' zones. When I started training regularly with a partner I noticed that he went into 'Red Alert' even quicker than I did. That observation helped me change my entire interaction, which affected the outcome even more than I could have earlier believed. Previously I saw dogs as battle options, and I'd prepare to evade if they gave chase, and lots of them did. Now in those same areas I greet the dogs as I arrive and tell them how happy I am to see them running and barking, healthy and happy. I don't dare stop and try to interact, that would only confuse them and get me bitten, but when they hear by tone that I
'm not a threat and that I enjoy their 'game of duty' these situations never turn to aggression like they used to. It's not just that I've got the dogs trained. It's me that's trained and it works with new dogs I come across just as well as the ol' familiars. If by chance a dog does seem overly aggressive a quick squirt from my water bottle towards their face will stop them dead in their tracks, completely harmlessly. The LAST thing you'd ever want to train a dog to do is to battle with cyclists, but if that's the game cyclists play then the dogs'll oblige them. Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles upon you. The reflected option of holding joy and loving peace also creates it's own recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long as you know the option exists you can have the reality of your choosing.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

chad butler

2015-12-09

I just felt a little reaction to someone saying that a pump with a ball of tape on the end is good for wackin' dogs.... I live in the sticks. Nobody out here keeps their dogs fenced, and the dogs see way less human traffic so their sense of duty when they recognize a threat is on high. I used to wear a heart monitor and I'd notice my HR start to spike as I'd near the 'problem dog' zones. When I started training regularly with a partner I noticed that he went into 'Red Alert' even quicker than I did. That observation helped me change my entire interaction, which affected the outcome even more than I could have earlier believed. Previously I saw dogs as battle options, and I'd prepare to evade if they gave chase, and lots of them did. Now in those same areas I greet the dogs as I arrive and tell them how happy I am to see them running and barking, healthy and happy. I don't dare stop and try to interact, that would only confuse them and get me bitten, but when they hear by tone that I
'm not a threat and that I enjoy their 'game of duty' these situations never turn to aggression like they used to. It's not just that I've got the dogs trained. It's me that's trained and it works with new dogs I come across just as well as the ol' familiars. If by chance a dog does seem overly aggressive a quick squirt from my water bottle towards their face will stop them dead in their tracks, completely harmlessly. The LAST thing you'd ever want to train a dog to do is to battle with cyclists, but if that's the game cyclists play then the dogs'll oblige them. Simply carrying a weapon and holding the intent to do battle brings those battles upon you. The reflected option of holding joy and loving peace also creates it's own recipritive atmosphere, but it takes all kinds, so as long as you know the option exists you can have the reality of your choosing.