MTB Scheduling

craig austin

2016-01-05

Jon is correct, the market has spoken. If we racers want summer MTB races,
we have to either put them on ourselves (which most of us are ill-equipped
to do) or keep begging until someone does, and then PROVE to them that
we'll show up. The bigger thing we must do, if we want the seasons to run
when they should, is NOT show up to March or April MTB races (especially on
the west side of the state), and also NOT show up at Labor Day or earlier
'cross races (let's face it, even mid to late September is crappy racing if
you like 'cross).

Until there's no market, promoters are going to fight over the earliest
dates possible, when people are excited to race (despite it being the
absolute wrong conditions for that type of racing).

Our collective willingness to show up in good numbers in early spring for
MTB and mid-summer for cyclocross is the ONLY reason there are no summer
MTB or winter 'cross races on the calendar. Three months is about as long
as you can sustain interest/fitness/equipment upkeep, so those of us who
start racing 'cross in August are done by November. Same for MTB. Start in
March or April, be prepared for the season to end in late May or June, just
about the time the actual mountain bike riding starts to get great.

Is it realistic to hope for change? No. We're going to keep on giving our
money to early-season races in all disciplines. It's not the fault of the
promoters, they're giving OBRA what we want. It's not at all what I want,
but it's what we as a group have proven that WE want.

Craig

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Jon Myers via OBRA
wrote:

> All promoters are notified about conflicting racing dates or weekends and
> given the opportunity to take a non-conflicting day or weekend. There is a
> lot of communication between OBRA and the promoters and also between
> promoters while the schedules are being proposed and finalized.
> Weekend racing dates are much like real estate because there is a
> finite supply. Some venues have a limited set of dates that they can use
> for mountain bike events due to weather (snow/rain), other non-cycling
> events in the same area, wildlife regulations, promoter vacations or work
> commitments, etc.
> Over the many years of racing it is clear to everyone involved
> that participation goes down in the summer and after November. There are
> many theories about why participation goes down but ultimately it does. If
> a promoter don’t want to lose money you try to put on events when the
> racers want to race. For Cyclocross that means putting on a race in the
> months of September, October, and November. In 2013 there were 4
> cyclocross races in December located in the northern half of the State
> (Eugene and farther north). In 2014 there was 1 cyclocross race in
> December. In 2015 there were none. Just look at the results from those
> December races and compare the participation level to September.
> For XC mountain bike racing the prime season is April thru June.
> By the middle of July the participation level makes a steep drop. There
> have been many very good events that have taken place later in the summer
> and the reason you no longer see them on the calendar is that the
> participation level was too low to sustain the event. If 200 people
> started showing up for an August XC event you can bet that next year there
> would be other promoters looking at August. Until racers show up to later
> season events promoters the calendar will look pretty much like it looks
> today. –Jon Myers
> _______________________________________________
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>


Jon Myers

2016-01-05

All promoters are notified about conflicting racing dates or weekends and given the opportunity to take a non-conflicting day or weekend. There is a lot of communication between OBRA and the promoters and also between promoters while the schedules are being proposed and finalized.
Weekend racing dates are much like real estate because there is a finite supply. Some venues have a limited set of dates that they can use for mountain bike events due to weather (snow/rain), other non-cycling events in the same area, wildlife regulations, promoter vacations or work commitments, etc.
Over the many years of racing it is clear to everyone involved that participation goes down in the summer and after November. There are many theories about why participation goes down but ultimately it does. If a promoter don���t want to lose money you try to put on events when the racers want to race. For Cyclocross that means putting on a race in the months of September, October, and November. In 2013 there were 4 cyclocross races in December located in the northern half of the State (Eugene and farther north). In 2014 there was 1 cyclocross race in December. In 2015 there were none. Just look at the results from those December races and compare the participation level to September.
For XC mountain bike racing the prime season is April thru June. By the middle of July the participation level makes a steep drop. There have been many very good events that have taken place later in the summer and the reason you no longer see them on the calendar is that the participation level was too low to sustain the event. If 200 people started showing up for an August XC event you can bet that next year there would be other promoters looking at August. Until racers show up to later season events promoters the calendar will look pretty much like it looks today. ���Jon Myers


rond..@spiritone.com

2016-01-05

come on people get creative. lets just put an alley cat mtb race on from the thurman gate to germantown on lief and let the walkers, joggers and unleashed dogs deal with it. Oh no. I mentioned dogs....they chase and poop. This could get way out of hand.
Lets try to go back to what Daniel and the K-Man said.....”like to see more / they try to work together”. Thing is promoters need to work with the openings of time they are given....thus conflict. There are usually more conflicts during cross season than mtb.
get it figured out and go race....or if no race, ride.
ron

From: marky mark via OBRA
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 7:17 PM
To: Daniel Kurylo
Cc: mailto:obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] MTB Scheduling

Me too. And I am willing to drive more than an hour

T Shreve

On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Daniel Kurylo via OBRA wrote:

I’d still like to see more XC MTB :-)

On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:06 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:

On 1/4/2016 4:50 PM, Daniel Kurylo via OBRA wrote:

Why isn’t there any summer XC MTB besides short-track?

There must be some great routes possible within an hour of PDX.

Here we go again... an OBRA Chat Top 10 topic.

As I recall we last left off with the top opinions being:

1.. The kids are out of school. Great! Family trip!
2.. The weather is too hot. I raced in South Africa where it was +30-40 C, its not too hot here

3.. Racing season starts so early in the year that summer participation suffers due to racer burnout. Pick and choose your races.

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

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marky mark

2016-01-05

Me too. And I am willing to drive more than an hour

T Shreve

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Daniel Kurylo via OBRA wrote:
>
> I’d still like to see more XC MTB :-)
>
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:06 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On 1/4/2016 4:50 PM, Daniel Kurylo via OBRA wrote:
>>> Why isn’t there any summer XC MTB besides short-track?
>>>
>>> There must be some great routes possible within an hour of PDX.
>>>
>>
>> Here we go again... an OBRA Chat Top 10 topic.
>>
>> As I recall we last left off with the top opinions being:
>> The kids are out of school. Great! Family trip!
>> The weather is too hot. I raced in South Africa where it was +30-40 C, its not too hot here
>> Racing season starts so early in the year that summer participation suffers due to racer burnout. Pick and choose your races.
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>> Bend, Oregon
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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Michael Richardson

2016-01-05

Except anywhere you can ride a mountain bike within an hour of Portland the City Council will surely make it illegal. Except Leif Erickson.

Mike

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 4:50 PM, Daniel Kurylo via OBRA wrote:
>
> Why isn���t there any summer XC MTB besides short-track?
>
> There must be some great routes possible within an hour of PDX.
>
>
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 4:22 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara via OBRA wrote:
>>
>> We are doing lots of work behind the scenes.
>>
>> Last word from Mike:
>>
>> "Wo...Kris move back...awesome and I think my shorter 20 mile long
>> course and 10 mile short Alsea falls event will work well with 6 hrs
>> on the same weekend."
>>
>> k-
>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Manville via OBRA wrote:
>>> With a limited MTB schedule in OBRAland why can we coordinate better? 6 hrs of MT Hood is on the same weekend as Alsea Falls Switchback. It seems like that could be planned better. Does OBRA have control of this? When I promoted a race in New England NEBRA could suggest another date if two races conflicted. I would also like to see some X-C in August but I won't get greedy. -- Manville
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenji Sugahara
>> Executive Director
>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>> http://www.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Mark Jensen

2016-01-05

What Mike said.
On Jan 4, 2016 6:35 PM, "Mike Murray via OBRA" wrote:

> I think that there must be someone waiting for the stock answer to this
> question:
>
> If you think that there should be any type of race on at any time of the
> year and there are none then put on that race. Or, as I more often state it
> as the mythical rule 27a "If you don't like it then put on your own bike
> race".
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Kurylo
> via OBRA
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 16:50
> To: T. Kenji Sugahara
> Cc: ; Manville
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] MTB Scheduling
>
> Why isn’t there any summer XC MTB besides short-track?
>
> There must be some great routes possible within an hour of PDX.
>
>
> > On Jan 4, 2016, at 4:22 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara via OBRA
> > wrote:
> >
> > We are doing lots of work behind the scenes.
> >
> > Last word from Mike:
> >
> > "Wo...Kris move back...awesome and I think my shorter 20 mile long
> > course and 10 mile short Alsea falls event will work well with 6 hrs
> > on the same weekend."
> >
> > k-
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Manville via OBRA
> > wrote:
> >> With a limited MTB schedule in OBRAland why can we coordinate better?
> >> 6 hrs of MT Hood is on the same weekend as Alsea Falls Switchback. It
> >> seems like that could be planned better. Does OBRA have control of
> >> this? When I promoted a race in New England NEBRA could suggest
> >> another date if two races conflicted. I would also like to see some
> >> X-C in August but I won't get greedy. -- Manville
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kenji Sugahara
> > Executive Director
> > Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> > Phone: 503-278-5550
> > http://www.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Mike Murray

2016-01-05

I think that there must be someone waiting for the stock answer to this
question:

If you think that there should be any type of race on at any time of the
year and there are none then put on that race. Or, as I more often state it
as the mythical rule 27a "If you don't like it then put on your own bike
race".

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Kurylo
via OBRA
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 16:50
To: T. Kenji Sugahara
Cc: ; Manville
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] MTB Scheduling

Why isn���t there any summer XC MTB besides short-track?

There must be some great routes possible within an hour of PDX.

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 4:22 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara via OBRA
> wrote:
>
> We are doing lots of work behind the scenes.
>
> Last word from Mike:
>
> "Wo...Kris move back...awesome and I think my shorter 20 mile long
> course and 10 mile short Alsea falls event will work well with 6 hrs
> on the same weekend."
>
> k-
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Manville via OBRA
> wrote:
>> With a limited MTB schedule in OBRAland why can we coordinate better?
>> 6 hrs of MT Hood is on the same weekend as Alsea Falls Switchback. It
>> seems like that could be planned better. Does OBRA have control of
>> this? When I promoted a race in New England NEBRA could suggest
>> another date if two races conflicted. I would also like to see some
>> X-C in August but I won't get greedy. -- Manville
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Mike Murray

2016-01-05

Although OBRA can and does facilitate communication between race organizers
and make suggestions to minimize conflict ultimately the choice of what
dates race organizers chose for their races is the race organizer's alone.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Manville via
OBRA
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 15:32
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] MTB Scheduling

With a limited MTB schedule in OBRAland why can we coordinate better? 6 hrs
of MT Hood is on the same weekend as Alsea Falls Switchback. It seems like
that could be planned better. Does OBRA have control of this? When I
promoted a race in New England NEBRA could suggest another date if two races
conflicted. I would also like to see some X-C in August but I won't get
greedy. -- Manville _______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Daniel Kurylo

2016-01-05

I’d still like to see more XC MTB :-)

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:06 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:
>
> On 1/4/2016 4:50 PM, Daniel Kurylo via OBRA wrote:
>> Why isn’t there any summer XC MTB besides short-track?
>>
>> There must be some great routes possible within an hour of PDX.
>>
>
> Here we go again... an OBRA Chat Top 10 topic.
>
> As I recall we last left off with the top opinions being:
> The kids are out of school. Great! Family trip!
> The weather is too hot. I raced in South Africa where it was +30-40 C, its not too hot here
> Racing season starts so early in the year that summer participation suffers due to racer burnout. Pick and choose your races.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>


Rick Johnson

2016-01-05





On 1/4/2016 4:50 PM, Daniel Kurylo via
OBRA wrote:



Why isn���t there any summer XC MTB besides short-track?

There must be some great routes possible within an hour of PDX.





Here we go again... an OBRA Chat Top 10 topic.



As I recall we last left off with the top opinions being:


  1. The kids are out of school.

  2. The weather is too hot.


  3. Racing season starts so early in the year that summer
    participation suffers due to racer burnout.





Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon



Daniel Kurylo

2016-01-05

Why isn���t there any summer XC MTB besides short-track?

There must be some great routes possible within an hour of PDX.

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 4:22 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara via OBRA wrote:
>
> We are doing lots of work behind the scenes.
>
> Last word from Mike:
>
> "Wo...Kris move back...awesome and I think my shorter 20 mile long
> course and 10 mile short Alsea falls event will work well with 6 hrs
> on the same weekend."
>
> k-
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Manville via OBRA wrote:
>> With a limited MTB schedule in OBRAland why can we coordinate better? 6 hrs of MT Hood is on the same weekend as Alsea Falls Switchback. It seems like that could be planned better. Does OBRA have control of this? When I promoted a race in New England NEBRA could suggest another date if two races conflicted. I would also like to see some X-C in August but I won't get greedy. -- Manville
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


T. Kenji Sugahara

2016-01-05

We are doing lots of work behind the scenes.

Last word from Mike:

"Wo...Kris move back...awesome and I think my shorter 20 mile long
course and 10 mile short Alsea falls event will work well with 6 hrs
on the same weekend."

k-

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Manville via OBRA wrote:
> With a limited MTB schedule in OBRAland why can we coordinate better? 6 hrs of MT Hood is on the same weekend as Alsea Falls Switchback. It seems like that could be planned better. Does OBRA have control of this? When I promoted a race in New England NEBRA could suggest another date if two races conflicted. I would also like to see some X-C in August but I won't get greedy. -- Manville
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org


Manville

2016-01-04

With a limited MTB schedule in OBRAland why can we coordinate better? 6 hrs of MT Hood is on the same weekend as Alsea Falls Switchback. It seems like that could be planned better. Does OBRA have control of this? When I promoted a race in New England NEBRA could suggest another date if two races conflicted. I would also like to see some X-C in August but I won't get greedy. -- Manville