Jeff Baertsch
I've personally found it rather frustrating that the numeric cat rule
change was pitched to teams as a solution to allow Oregon racers to race
with USAC more easily, but then used as a way to remap how cats are
grouped. Also on a side note, it's seems somewhat ironic to me that in our
efforts to mesh well with USAC, we've created a format that's contrary to
how most USAC promoters put on races (at least from what I can tell from
the ones I've been interested in attending).
To other peoples points, I've noticed a lot of field sizes skewed and
sandbagging and it's kinda bumming me out. Personally I know several people
who as 3's have suddenly started racing masters this year only because
there isn't an open 3's category anymore.
Saying that we can't have last years schedule because of "time constraints"
seems disingenuous to me. It was how races were put on for several years
prior to this, and the hours in a day/daylight in September didn't change
this year.
And I'm not trying to put anyone down. I appreciate the effort that
promoters and officials have put in this year and I've had a lot of fun
still. Racers, promoters, and officials/OBRA brass are all in it for the
love of the sport. We're talking about amateur bike racing here, at the end
of the day it's a hobby that we do for fun.
I don't think there are any nefarious reasons for why races switched to
this format. But I hope that at the end of the year we examine how things
played out and try to improve upon that (personally my vote is with
Candi's: numeric cats with last years schedule).
On 23 September 2016 at 13:47, T. Kenji Sugahara via OBRA <
obra@list.obra.org> wrote:
> Yup. This was discussed at the promoter's meeting early this year.
> Be glad it didn't happen to the Masters too.
>
> Sal- the main idea was to just change to numerical. The combination
> piece- well, we made sure that folks understood the pitfalls.
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Candi Murray via OBRA
> wrote:
> > John- exactly
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Sep 23, 2016, at 12:08 PM, John Gill via OBRA
> wrote:
> >
> > I think that you are missing the idea. Not a separate race for each
> category
> > but something like in the past. For example:
> > 8:40am Cat 5, Single Speed Women, Unicycles* 40 min
> > 9:30am Category 4, Clydesdale, Athena 45 min
> > 10:25am Break/course preview 10 min
> > 10:35am Masters Category 4 35+ 45 min
> > 11:30am Masters 3 35+, Masters 50+, Masters 60+ 45 min
> > 12:20pm Break/course preview 10 min
> > 12:35pm All Juniors: Men, Women** 30 min
> > 1:15pm Category 1/2 Men, Category 1/2 Women, Masters Category 1/2 35+ 60
> min
> > 2:20pm Women: Cat 3, Cat 4, Cat 5, Masters 35+ 1/2, 3, 45+ 45 min
> > 3:15pm Category 3 and Single Speed 45 min
> >
> > Same time frame...but easier to know what race you SHOULD be in, easier
> for
> > upgrade tracking, and more balanced fields.
> > John
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 11:06 AM, via OBRA wrote:
> >>
> >> Not putting any one person down, but...
> >> Putting on a race is much more work for promoters and officials than it
> >> might seem. If you have never been heavily involved, you might not
> >> understand the huge time commitments. Just showing up to race with the
> >> expectations that you will see accurate results in minutes or hours
> might
> >> create an incomplete picture of what it takes to put on and score the
> race.
> >> If there was a separate race for each field, the race day would be 20
> hours
> >> long. Not going to happen. If you want each cat separated out by the
> >> officials, I think the request that more people take the time out of
> their
> >> training (or life in general) to help officiate was well founded. I
> do not
> >> remember (except for the weekday / evening races) where the “As” raced
> with
> >> any other cat lower. That is usually because of the very restricted
> time
> >> available.
> >> I hope whatever happens with regard to this.........most people either
> >> accept what promoters / officials are trying to do to maintain
> fairness, or
> >> step up with their time to make it even better. Electronic media is a
> great
> >> way to throw out all sorts of ideas, criticism etc. Actually helping
> in the
> >> “real world” is another animal.
> >> Truth is we have had some great racing already this Cross season and
> more
> >> to come. Just ride faster!
> >> ron
> >>
> >> From: Ian Boggs via OBRA
> >> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 10:36 AM
> >> To: jon.ragsdale@comcast.net
> >> Cc: obra
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CX Upgrades - something's missing...
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm confused about the time constraint argument, since the combined 1/2
> >> field is effectively the old "A" category, and the other individual
> numbered
> >> categories correspond to B, C, and Beginner. How does going to a
> numbered
> >> system differ in scheduling from previous years when we combine the 1s
> and
> >> 2s anyway?
> >>
> >> -
> >> Ian
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 23, 2016 10:06 AM, "via OBRA" wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Combined fields will probably always be the norm due to time
> constraints.
> >>> Fields could be run at the same time and scored separately, thought
> that is
> >>> much more work on the officials. Anybody going to step up and become
> a new
> >>> official to help with that?
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: "Devin Bailly via OBRA"
> >>> Cc: "obra"
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 9:43:43 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CX Upgrades - something's missing...
> >>>
> >>> I agree with Brad (and Candi) - "do away with combined fields when
> >>> scheduling for next year" And even for the rest of THIS year! (when
> >>> possible)
> >>> It's creating more confusion than opportunity.
> >>>
> >>> Alternatively, follow the aforementioned clause in the road upgrade
> rules
> >>> for CX also.
> >>>
> >>> -Devin
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Brad Davidson via OBRA
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> That rule is specifically in the ROAD section, not the CX section.
> Candi
> >>>> confirmed that folks are being scored for upgrades even from the top
> >>>> category in the field.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here's hoping that promoters decide to do away with combined fields
> when
> >>>> scheduling for next year.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Brad
> >>>>
> >>>> > The way I read that rule is that you can only get points to count
> for
> >>>> > an
> >>>> > upgrade from the BOTTOM MOST category - so any points you earn as a
> 3
> >>>> > in
> >>>> > the 3/4 race (where a 2/3 race is available) won't count, since
> you're
> >>>> > not
> >>>> > the bottom-most category in the race. That specifically addresses
> your
> >>>> > complaint of the rule encouraging sandbagging for upgrades, since it
> >>>> > seems
> >>>> > like it's written to prevent that.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
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