Eric Aldinger

Don should not risk his 2017 event permit like that and KRis has already
lost too much planning time to put on the quality of event we would expect.
This chaps me, honestly. Last year we built such a nice maze on course, and
the weather did not shine on it. I was hoping we could try it again this
year.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Murray via OBRA
wrote:

> One needs to remember that it is not Don Kruger that puts on the race. He
> just supplies the venue, for a fee. Kris Schamp puts on the race. He needs
> to collect money to pay the fee to Kruger as well as cover the costs he has
> for running the race and to provide himself compensation for the work he
> does to put the race on. That cash has to come from somewhere. Simply
> purchasing produce, even if the purchase was mandatory and the price was
> inflated much higher than market value, would be a stretch. It would also
> be
> easily seen as trying to circumvent the fee-based activity deal in a not
> particularly valid way.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of sean via OBRA
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 08:12
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Krugers
>
> Thanks Jonathan for that refresher, I remember that well. I am super into
> this concept noted in the artcle "Another thought some commenters have had
> was, ‘Why not just make the bike races free?’ (thus, getting around the
> “fee-based activities” stipulation). Kruger said that could be an option.
> He
> envisions that the race entry fee could come in the form of a purchase from
> his store."
>
> I'd purchase at least $30(cost of most reg) of produce/farm merch for them
> to be able to throw the race!
>
>
> For some background on the County policy driving this situation, check out
> my reporting from 2009
> http://bikeportland.org/2009/07/15/kruger-considers-legal-
> options-remains-commited-to-bike-races-21046
> --
> - Jonathan
>
> Publisher & Editor, BikePortland.org
> Named "Best Portland Blog" in 2016 Willamette Week Reader's Poll!
> @bikeportland
>
> (503) 706-8804
>
> Please support our work - https://bikeportland.org/support
>
> 321 SW 4th Ave, #303
> Portland OR 97204
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Eric Aldinger

Mike Murray

One needs to remember that it is not Don Kruger that puts on the race. He
just supplies the venue, for a fee. Kris Schamp puts on the race. He needs
to collect money to pay the fee to Kruger as well as cover the costs he has
for running the race and to provide himself compensation for the work he
does to put the race on. That cash has to come from somewhere. Simply
purchasing produce, even if the purchase was mandatory and the price was
inflated much higher than market value, would be a stretch. It would also be
easily seen as trying to circumvent the fee-based activity deal in a not
particularly valid way.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of sean via OBRA
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 08:12
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Krugers

Thanks Jonathan for that refresher, I remember that well. I am super into
this concept noted in the artcle "Another thought some commenters have had
was, ���Why not just make the bike races free?��� (thus, getting around the
���fee-based activities��� stipulation). Kruger said that could be an option. He
envisions that the race entry fee could come in the form of a purchase from
his store."

I'd purchase at least $30(cost of most reg) of produce/farm merch for them
to be able to throw the race!

For some background on the County policy driving this situation, check out
my reporting from 2009
http://bikeportland.org/2009/07/15/kruger-considers-legal-options-remains-commited-to-bike-races-21046
--
- Jonathan

Publisher & Editor, BikePortland.org
Named "Best Portland Blog" in 2016 Willamette Week Reader's Poll!
@bikeportland

(503) 706-8804

Please support our work - https://bikeportland.org/support

321 SW 4th Ave, #303
Portland OR 97204
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Eric Aldinger

I do free races with several organizations. They are great, but cannot be
held at a for fee facility. You also do not get professional officials,
high quality course markings, timing cameras, first aide of any sort,
neutral support (usually), or feed stations. No swag like little ugly
socks. The food is whatever people bring themselves. Sometimes beer
magically appears. There is little promotion for many of the free events.

I prefer the free events, but you do not get bonfires on a farm on an
island. That is why a fun series like Blind Date still charges fees, but
keeps them unprofitably low (making an assumption based on how little gold
jewelry the promoters wear on a daily basis).

What sucks in this case is that the promoter of the Crossing counts on his
efforts to pay him back. In this case he lost the venue and some of the
funds he was counting on. I wish Krugers would not have given the venue
SSCXWC, out of respect for the long standing relationship that was built
for the Crossing. No disrespect meant towards the fun people at SSCXWC.
Everyone loves SSCXWC, the promoters are nice, and they picked an
interesting venue. But to see the farm toss the Crossing by the side bums
me out.

On Nov 11, 2016 8:12 AM, "sean via OBRA" wrote:

> Thanks Jonathan for that refresher, I remember that well. I am super into
> this concept noted in the artcle "Another thought some commenters have had
> was, ‘Why not just make the bike races free?’ (thus, getting around the
> “fee-based activities” stipulation). Kruger said that could be an option.
> He envisions that the race entry fee could come in the form of a purchase
> from his store."
>
> I'd purchase at least $30(cost of most reg) of produce/farm merch for them
> to be able to throw the race!
>
>
> For some background on the County policy driving this situation, check out
> my reporting from 2009
> http://bikeportland.org/2009/07/15/kruger-considers-legal-
> options-remains-commited-to-bike-races-21046
> --
> - Jonathan
>
> Publisher & Editor, BikePortland.org
> Named "Best Portland Blog" in 2016 Willamette Week Reader's Poll!
> @bikeportland
>
> (503) 706-8804
>
> Please support our work - https://bikeportland.org/support
>
> 321 SW 4th Ave, #303
> Portland OR 97204
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

sean

Thanks Jonathan for that refresher, I remember that well. I am super into this concept noted in the artcle "Another thought some commenters have had was, ���Why not just make the bike races free?��� (thus, getting around the ���fee-based activities��� stipulation). Kruger said that could be an option. He envisions that the race entry fee could come in the form of a purchase from his store."

I'd purchase at least $30(cost of most reg) of produce/farm merch for them to be able to throw the race!

For some background on the County policy driving this situation, check out
my reporting from 2009
http://bikeportland.org/2009/07/15/kruger-considers-legal-options-remains-commited-to-bike-races-21046
--
- Jonathan

Publisher & Editor, BikePortland.org
Named "Best Portland Blog" in 2016 Willamette Week Reader's Poll!
@bikeportland

(503) 706-8804

Please support our work - https://bikeportland.org/support

321 SW 4th Ave, #303
Portland OR 97204

Jonathan Maus

For some background on the County policy driving this situation, check out
my reporting from 2009
http://bikeportland.org/2009/07/15/kruger-considers-legal-options-remains-commited-to-bike-races-21046
--
- Jonathan

Publisher & Editor, BikePortland.org
Named "Best Portland Blog" in 2016 Willamette Week Reader's Poll!
@bikeportland

(503) 706-8804

Please support our work - https://bikeportland.org/support

321 SW 4th Ave, #303
Portland OR 97204

Brian Witty

Correct! Thank you for clarifying, Kenji

I would only add this: Kruger's Farm loves the events and suspect they
will be back in 2017.

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 12:35 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara via OBRA <
obra@list.obra.org> wrote:

> Yes. It is a county issue. As Ron states, the county limits the number
> of large events that can be put on at the farm.
>
> SSCXWC has taken the slot and Kris is unable to put on the event because
> of those restrictions.
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 12:24 PM, via OBRA wrote:
>
>> Maybe someone should check in with Kris Schamp, Don Kruger, or the people
>> putting on the SS champs that is taking place at Kruger’s. Maybe there are
>> some answers in there as to why. Maybe the reasons might be based on
>> different perspectives. The view is different from different eyes. *The
>> county only allows Don to put on a certain # of events each year.*
>> There are reasons. The full picture would be nice for the many people who
>> have done the race (and do not care to travel longer distances to race).
>> We demand transparency!
>> Maybe our president elect even had something to do with this (just
>> kidding). If Hillary would have been involved, it all would have been
>> leaked [image: Smile].
>> Go race where you want or put on your own.
>> ron
>>
>> *From:* Robert Jackson via OBRA
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:23 AM
>> *To:* Matt Ritzow
>> *Cc:* obra
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Krugers
>>
>> There are other races, I personally really have enjoyed the Krugers
>> races!
>>
>> On Thursday, November 10, 2016, Matt Ritzow via OBRA
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Travel a bit and come down to Psycho cross and or do Steilacoom CX up
>>> north. PDX people there are other races in the world!
>>> M
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Ben via OBRA <
>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','obra@list.obra.org');> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What?? Lame!
>>>>
>>>> Why? I was super stoked to get one last race in this season...
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','obra@list.obra.org');
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','o
>>>> bra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org');
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Ritzow
>>> General Manager/Partner Owner
>>> Bicycle Way of Life Inc.
>>> 556 Charnelton St.
>>> Eugene, Or. 97401
>>> 541-393-0147
>>> 541-344-4150
>>> [image: cid:image001.png@01D100F8.B02550E0] @bwol_racing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from mobile, please excuse typos and brevity.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Ben

-Go race where you want or put on your own.
-ron

Seems like a big undertaking. I'd possibly consider attempting to put one on in my home town of Saint Helens, if it was doable.. but I really have no idea what something like that takes.

Any promoters interested? Not sure how much help I could be in actually setting up the race, but I could definitely help in locating a good place for it and possibly with getting approval/permit from the city - small town, I know people.

Would be super cool to get one last race in this year.

Would be super cool to get 10 more races in, but I guess people are burned out of CX by mid November?

T. Kenji Sugahara

Yes. It is a county issue. As Ron states, the county limits the number of
large events that can be put on at the farm.

SSCXWC has taken the slot and Kris is unable to put on the event because of
those restrictions.

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 12:24 PM, via OBRA wrote:

> Maybe someone should check in with Kris Schamp, Don Kruger, or the people
> putting on the SS champs that is taking place at Kruger’s. Maybe there are
> some answers in there as to why. Maybe the reasons might be based on
> different perspectives. The view is different from different eyes. *The
> county only allows Don to put on a certain # of events each year.* There
> are reasons. The full picture would be nice for the many people who have
> done the race (and do not care to travel longer distances to race). We
> demand transparency!
> Maybe our president elect even had something to do with this (just
> kidding). If Hillary would have been involved, it all would have been
> leaked [image: Smile].
> Go race where you want or put on your own.
> ron
>
> *From:* Robert Jackson via OBRA
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:23 AM
> *To:* Matt Ritzow
> *Cc:* obra
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Krugers
>
> There are other races, I personally really have enjoyed the Krugers races!
>
> On Thursday, November 10, 2016, Matt Ritzow via OBRA
> wrote:
>
>> Travel a bit and come down to Psycho cross and or do Steilacoom CX up
>> north. PDX people there are other races in the world!
>> M
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Ben via OBRA <
>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','obra@list.obra.org');> wrote:
>>
>>> What?? Lame!
>>>
>>> Why? I was super stoked to get one last race in this season...
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','obra@list.obra.org');
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.
>>> org');
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Ritzow
>> General Manager/Partner Owner
>> Bicycle Way of Life Inc.
>> 556 Charnelton St.
>> Eugene, Or. 97401
>> 541-393-0147
>> 541-344-4150
>> [image: cid:image001.png@01D100F8.B02550E0] @bwol_racing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Sent from mobile, please excuse typos and brevity.
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org

rond..@spiritone.com

Maybe someone should check in with Kris Schamp, Don Kruger, or the people putting on the SS champs that is taking place at Kruger’s. Maybe there are some answers in there as to why. Maybe the reasons might be based on different perspectives. The view is different from different eyes. The county only allows Don to put on a certain # of events each year. There are reasons. The full picture would be nice for the many people who have done the race (and do not care to travel longer distances to race). We demand transparency!
Maybe our president elect even had something to do with this (just kidding). If Hillary would have been involved, it all would have been leaked .
Go race where you want or put on your own.
ron

From: Robert Jackson via OBRA
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:23 AM
To: Matt Ritzow
Cc: obra
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Krugers

There are other races, I personally really have enjoyed the Krugers races!

On Thursday, November 10, 2016, Matt Ritzow via OBRA wrote:

Travel a bit and come down to Psycho cross and or do Steilacoom CX up north. PDX people there are other races in the world!
M

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Ben via OBRA wrote:

What?? Lame!

Why? I was super stoked to get one last race in this season...
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','obra@list.obra.org');
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org');

--

Matt Ritzow
General Manager/Partner Owner
Bicycle Way of Life Inc.
556 Charnelton St.
Eugene, Or. 97401
541-393-0147
541-344-4150
@bwol_racing

--
Sent from mobile, please excuse typos and brevity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Robert Jackson

There are other races, I personally really have enjoyed the Krugers races!

On Thursday, November 10, 2016, Matt Ritzow via OBRA
wrote:

> Travel a bit and come down to Psycho cross and or do Steilacoom CX up
> north. PDX people there are other races in the world!
> M
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Ben via OBRA > wrote:
>
>> What?? Lame!
>>
>> Why? I was super stoked to get one last race in this season...
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Ritzow
> General Manager/Partner Owner
> Bicycle Way of Life Inc.
> 556 Charnelton St.
> Eugene, Or. 97401
> 541-393-0147
> 541-344-4150
> [image: cid:image001.png@01D100F8.B02550E0] @bwol_racing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Sent from mobile, please excuse typos and brevity.

Matt Ritzow

Travel a bit and come down to Psycho cross and or do Steilacoom CX up
north. PDX people there are other races in the world!
M

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Ben via OBRA wrote:

> What?? Lame!
>
> Why? I was super stoked to get one last race in this season...
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Matt Ritzow
General Manager/Partner Owner
Bicycle Way of Life Inc.
556 Charnelton St.
Eugene, Or. 97401
541-393-0147
541-344-4150
[image: cid:image001.png@01D100F8.B02550E0] @bwol_racing

Ben

What?? Lame!

Why? I was super stoked to get one last race in this season...

jon.ragsdale

Yes,  it has been cancelled 

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------From: dean maclean via OBRA Date: 11/10/16 10:39 AM (GMT-08:00) To: OBRA@list.obra.org Subject: [OBRA Chat] Krugers
It says in the obra schedule that Kruger's is canceled on the 20th.
Is that correct?

Thanks

Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

dean maclean

It says in the obra schedule that Kruger's is canceled on the 20th.
Is that correct?

Thanks

Sent from my iPad