stay stick hold

Mike Murray

2017-07-11

I agree completely. Actually any rider that is not moving parallel to the
bottom of the track has the responsibility to make sure the line he is
moving to is not occupied or about to be occupied by someone else
(regardless of what Cavendish at the Olympics). Obviously people are not
required to have eyes in the back of their head but you have to look. It is
useful for you to say "stay" or "stick" to help the person know you are
there but it is definitely not required.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: OBRA [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Adam Angert via
OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 11:04
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] stay stick hold

The rider coming off the front has the obligation to check and make sure
he's not going to crash into someone...duh. One of the first things we teach
at the Wednesday Beginners Class is to always check over your shoulder
before moving. It doesn't sound like you are at fault in any way. That said,
it's always a good policy to communicate with the people around you and let
them know you're there.
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Adam Angert

2017-07-11

The rider coming off the front has the obligation to check and make sure he's not going to crash into someone...duh. One of the first things we teach at the Wednesday Beginners Class is to always check over your shoulder before moving. It doesn't sound like you are at fault in any way. That said, it's always a good policy to communicate with the people around you and let them know you're there.


John Schmidt

2017-07-11

This is still bugging me and in my brain it’s still unresolved, so I need
to (and finally found a little time to) write about an incident that
happened at last Thursday Track. The incident during the race was truly
insignificant but the yelling after was unnecessary (which I guess I am
mostly guilty of, for ramping it up, which I apologize for.)

So 2 guys were off the front, that 2 or 3 of us barely catch (well at least
I was maxed out). I happened to do the final slow close, so now its 4 (or
5?) person pace-line, sprinters lane of course. I am staying tight on the
wheel I just caught. Coming out of corner three, front rider peels off the
front and then immediately comes back down to the sprinter’s lane to where
I am. Surprise! (First time this has happened to me in 12 years of on
and off track racing), BUT no big deal, kind of exciting, we get close but
don’t touch. End of story.

Evidently not. I am approached after the race and told in essence that the
near accident was my fault; I should have called “stick”. OK... I defer
with along the lines of a “you came down the track kind of quick”. And oh
boy, it’s on, how dare I disagree or have differing opinion.

1. If you are going approach someone and tell them how they “screwed up”,
be sure they actually did or at least then listen to their point of view.
Most people, and I am obviously not immune, are wired to get defensive, and
yes I got defensive, but if I had truly been in the wrong, I would not have
or would have backed down quickly. I am reaching back trying to think of
other “cycling incidents” that I have had, and they been rare and always
resolved. I do remember Va Beach racing, must have been 97, He was young
and strong, but I was a lot quicker, I was racing tactfully, he was
getting upset, I was right, he was wrong, Mmm his core is like really
solid...Could he be? I quit racing tactfully and with tact let him win.
Later doing practice sprints together, found out he was a Navy Seal,
somewhat new to bike racing.. and the morals of this story are...

2. A few others said yes I should have called out stick or stay. In
hindsight: Horsecrap! OK yes its good idea, but how would I have known?
To me, I was just riding the pace-line in the sprinter’s lane, not “doing
something that may catch everyone else by surprise”. But also the movement
was quick enough; I wouldn’t have had time to open my mouth anyway. Ok
Yeah maybe if I had noticed before catching, that one of the guys up the
road was doing “a hard up and hard back down” two person pace-line, but
it’s not like I am spectating, and it’s not like I know exactly what he is
doing anyway (coming down fast without glancing back), because in my 29
year of racing I have never done a pace-line this way nor seen it done. (Ok
not glancing back is common but then the movement is slow and predictable).

So I can’t read people’s minds, nor do I feel that I should control your
bicycle for you. In other words, tell you where you can’t steer your
bicycle by yelling commands. IMHO, something that’s not quite honest if
being used for tactful advantage. (now Obviously if you are coming in Hot,
start yelling). I will also note the other times same Rider came off the
front it was straight up, almost to the rail to a new traction speed (for
me at least at those heights) (I know, because having just come off
moments before, and still slightly overlapped, had to go up with). So it
wasn’t like I was going to be able to predict direction. So once again I
can’t read minds and I don’t think yelling stick or stay constantly works
either.

IMHO I think riding predictably/'moving at rate that others can still react
off of', is more important than a “heh no one called Stay, so I can just
swerve where I want”. But if you disagree, we probably should also
consider hearing tests and vocalization training in order to race at
Alpenrose. Also provide the officials with directional microphones, so
that they can monitor the "dangerous" non or weak-vocalizations: "yeah I
know Charlie came down the track and took you out, but your "stick" was
just not loud enough...DQ'd! "

Once again, I have no problem with the racing, just with being “blamed” or
“educated” with attitude for something someone thought I was supposed to do
but didn’t.

So I had a great time, and logistically racing at Alpenrose is perfect for
me, ( between the bus and the bike, its an easy venue to get to) and I
figure if I do few races every year I can still call myself a bike racer.

But this incident after the racing just caused unnecessary stress,
unnecessarily. And I apologize for ramping it up even more than it needed
to be. And good job Jen for calming me down, at that point it was
impossible for me to properly explain what was going on.

Thanks for listening I feel better already:)

http://velodrome.obra.org/rider-etiquette/