Martin Baker

I have torn the ACL in both of my knees and undergone reconstructive surgery

for both ('87 and '90 - it was a great couple of years!). While the

aggressiveness of the rehab increased immensely between my first and second

procedures, the one exercise that remained STRICTLY forbidden was the leg

extension past 20 degrees from horizontal. Those last few degrees apparently

put immense stress on the ACL graft. Hamstring exercises were certainly

emphasized.



BUT, don't listen to me or Michael or anyone else - find a doctor who is an

athlete or who specializes in treating athletes, and find a Physical

Therapist that focuses on sports medicine. Follow their advice closely and

be motivated. There's no doubt it's a long haul but it's worth it.



My surgeon was a skier and I found a physical therapist who skied and raced

mountain bikes. I was mountain biking in about 8 or 9 months and just shy of

a year after my second reconstruction I was working as a ski instructor at

Stratton Mountain in Vermont and logging 30+ days on snow. It can be done,

just don't listed to the muscle-heads at the gym - they don't know jack

about your surgery and rehab. I'd be glad to answer any questions directly

if need be.



Martin





 From: Michael O'Hair <moh-@easystreet.com>

Reply-To: moh-@easystreet.com

To: gil ormerod <gorm-@comcast.net>

CC: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] ACL thoughts

Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:43:52 -0800





To avoid going around the semantic mulberry bush, let me define some terms.

I used the word "isolate" in weight room terms rather than strict

semantics. I will substitute the word "emphasize" and repeat my statement.

Let me add that I was in PT for a tibia plateau fracture that required a

bone graft. The ACL being torn off completely was a secondary problem.



To "emphasize" load on the vastus medialis, do leg extensions ( where you

sit down and have the padded piece against your ankles ) and bring the

lower leg horizontal to the floor. Slowly lower the weight approximately

twenty degrees and come back to horizontal. Repeat. This will

develop/emphasize your vastus medialis. I had to do this to keep my

patella more or less where it belongs.



A good PT will insist on balancing your hams with the quads. Skiers and

cyclists tend to overdevelop the quads which throws stress onto the knee

joint. The rule of thumb is doing ham exercises with approximately 80% of

your quad load to balance your legs.



My posting was not an attack on PT people, just a statement that caution is

advised when people start prescribing weight lifting. My knee experience

is twenty years old but the advice is the same. I can say with personal

experience that people working with athletic injuries and weight rehab have

gotten a lot more savvy in the forty years I've been visiting the

orthopedic OR and lifting weights.



Michael O'Hair

Aging Athlete and Professional Patient















   ----- Original Message -----

   From: gil ormerod

   To: moh-@easystreet.com

   Cc: ob-@topica.com

   Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 PM

   Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] ACL thoughts





   There is no way to significantly isolate the vastus medialis. EMG

studies have shown this many times. While I hope that your knee recovered

and is in fine shape now, I think you may have been better served by

sticking with a trained medical professional.







     One of the problems of finding a Physical Therapist is to find one

that really knows the weight room. When I lost my left ACL and my right

PCL in a skiing accident, I was sent to a PT lab where I rode a stationary

bike for a $100 per hour. I asked the PT person about weight lifting and

discovered that he did not know how to isolate the vastus medialis. I did

not return. I went back to Loprinzi's and worked out with the body

builders. I use muscles to hold my legs together. It's not perfect, but

it works.



     The moral here is that you have to ask questions and listen carefully

to the answers.







     For a nice muscle chart for the legs, go to:   

http://www.mythos.com/webmd/Content.aspx?P=MUSCH1&E=27



       ----- Original Message -----

       From: terra marzano





       I've had multiple surgeries, multiple ACL repairs, multiple

experiences. No matter how frustrating it is, be patient on a

trainer/stationary bike. The more time you put on a trainer, the better

your knee will respond to the jarring actions of being on the road - so

stay on a trainer as long as your trusted and highly competent (and

preferably bike-commuting) physical therapist advises.







To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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To avoid going around the semantic mulberry bush, let me define some terms. I used the word "isolate" in weight room terms rather than strict semantics. I will substitute the word "emphasize" and repeat my statement. Let me add that I was in PT for a tibia plateau fracture that required a bone graft. The ACL being torn off completely was a secondary problem.



To "emphasize" load on the vastus medialis, do leg extensions ( where you sit down and have the padded piece against your ankles ) and bring the lower leg horizontal to the floor. Slowly lower the weight approximately twenty degrees and come back to horizontal. Repeat. This will develop/emphasize your vastus medialis. I had to do this to keep my patella more or less where it belongs.



A good PT will insist on balancing your hams with the quads. Skiers and cyclists tend to overdevelop the quads which throws stress onto the knee joint. The rule of thumb is doing ham exercises with approximately 80% of your quad load to balance your legs.



My posting was not an attack on PT people, just a statement that caution is advised when people start prescribing weight lifting. My knee experience is twenty years old but the advice is the same. I can say with personal experience that people working with athletic injuries and weight rehab have gotten a lot more savvy in the forty years I've been visiting the orthopedic OR and lifting weights.



Michael O'Hair

Aging Athlete and Professional Patient















----- Original Message -----

From: gil ormerod

To: moh-@easystreet.com

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] ACL thoughts





There is no way to significantly isolate the vastus medialis. EMG studies have shown this many times. While I hope that your knee recovered and is in fine shape now, I think you may have been better served by sticking with a trained medical professional.







    One of the problems of finding a Physical Therapist is to find one that really knows the weight room. When I lost my left ACL and my right PCL in a skiing accident, I was sent to a PT lab where I rode a stationary bike for a $100 per hour. I asked the PT person about weight lifting and discovered that he did not know how to isolate the vastus medialis. I did not return. I went back to Loprinzi's and worked out with the body builders. I use muscles to hold my legs together. It's not perfect, but it works.



    The moral here is that you have to ask questions and listen carefully to the answers.







    For a nice muscle chart for the legs, go to:   http://www.mythos.com/webmd/Content.aspx?P=MUSCH1&E=27



      ----- Original Message -----

      From: terra marzano





      I've had multiple surgeries, multiple ACL repairs, multiple experiences. No matter how frustrating it is, be patient on a trainer/stationary bike. The more time you put on a trainer, the better your knee will respond to the jarring actions of being on the road - so stay on a trainer as long as your trusted and highly competent (and preferably bike-commuting) physical therapist advises.







To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





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charset="iso-8859-1"

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>

<META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1>

<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>

<BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>To avoid going around the semantic mulberry bush, let me define some

terms.  I used the word "isolate" in weight room terms rather than strict

semantics.  I will substitute the word "emphasize" and repeat my

statement.  Let me add that I was in PT for a tibia plateau fracture that

required a bone graft.  The ACL being torn off completely was a secondary

problem.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>To "emphasize" load on the vastus medialis, do leg extensions ( where you

sit down and have the padded piece against your ankles ) and bring the

lower leg horizontal to the floor.  Slowly lower the weight approximately

twenty degrees and come back to horizontal.  Repeat.  This will

develop/emphasize your vastus medialis.  I had to do this to keep my

patella more or less where it belongs.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>A good PT will insist on balancing your hams with the quads.  Skiers

and cyclists tend to overdevelop the quads which throws stress onto the knee

joint.  The rule of thumb is doing ham exercises with

approximately 80% of your quad load to balance your legs.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>My posting was not an attack on PT people, just a statement that caution is

advised when people start prescribing weight lifting.  My knee experience

is twenty years old but the advice is the same.  I can say with personal

experience that people working with athletic injuries and weight rehab have

gotten a lot more savvy in the forty years I've been visiting the

orthopedic OR and lifting weights.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Michael O'Hair</DIV>

<DIV>Aging Athlete and Professional Patient</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=g-@comcast.net href="mailto:gorm-@comcast.net">gil

ormerod</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=-@easystreet.com

href="mailto:moh-@easystreet.com">moh-@easystreet.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] ACL

thoughts</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>There is no way to significantly isolate the vastus

medialis.  EMG studies have shown this many times.  While I hope

that your knee recovered and is in fine shape now, I think you may have been

better served by sticking with a trained medical professional.<BR><BR><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE cite="mid1761679697-1463-@boing.topica.com"

type="cite">

    <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR>

    <STYLE></STYLE>



    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>One of the problems of finding a Physical

    Therapist is to find one that really knows the weight room.  When

    I lost my left ACL and my right PCL in a skiing accident, I was sent to a PT

    lab where I rode a stationary bike for a $100 per hour.  I asked the PT

    person about weight lifting and discovered that he did not know how to

    isolate the vastus medialis.  I did not return.  I went back to

    Loprinzi's and worked out with the body builders.  I use muscles to

    hold my legs together.  It's not perfect, but it

    works.</FONT></DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The moral here is that you have to ask

    questions and listen carefully to the answers. </FONT></DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For a nice muscle chart for the legs, go

    to:   </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><A

    href="http://www.mythos.com/webmd/Content.aspx?P=MUSCH1&amp;E=27">http://www.mythos.com/webmd/Content.aspx?P=MUSCH1&E=27</A></FONT></DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

    style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

      <DIV

      style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none">-----

      Original Message ----- </DIV>

      <DIV

      style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial; moz-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B>

      <A title=t-@hotmail.com href="mailto:tmar-@hotmail.com">terra

      marzano</A> </DIV>

      <DIV><STRONG></STRONG><BR></DIV>

      <DIV>

      <DIV class=RTE>

      <P>I've had multiple surgeries, multiple ACL repairs, multiple

      experiences. No matter how frustrating it is, be patient on a

      trainer/stationary bike. The more time you put on a trainer,

      the better your knee will respond to the jarring actions of being on

      the road - so stay on a trainer as long as your trusted and highly

      competent (and preferably bike-commuting) physical therapist advises. </P>

      <P> </P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A>.

To respond to the list manager send to <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</A>

To unsubscribe send to <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com">obra-uns-@topica.com</A></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>



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RuSseLL CrEe

Michael,



Numerous studies have been done with MRIs and EMGs with various (basically

ALL) exercises that involve quadriceps, and the results have shown there is

absolutely NO way to "isolate" vastus medialis oblique, over the Rectus

Femoris, Lateralis and Intermedius. There are a few ways to incorporate

adduction motions into the exercises that may POSSIBLY "bias" VMO, but

certainly not isolate the muscle. If anyone told you they were isolating

this muscle than they were mistaken. This is not even an issue for an ACL

injury, seeing as the ACL prevents anterior translation of the tibia on the

femur, which is the force created by the quadriceps, especially at end range

extension. Strengthening of the hamstings would be the most beneficial to

decrease the stress placed on the ACL. Maybe you were thinking of this

exercise for your PCL injury? Be careful with the information you gain in

the wt room...



The bottom line is that everyone has different injuries and you need to go

find a physician or rehab specialist that will work with you for your

individualized goals depending on your injury. Your ACL tear is likely not

the same as somone elses and your repair technique is likely different as

well. Many Orthopedists have their own protocols for their ACL repairs,

which is something you also need to consider. If you are an athlete, than

see a sports medicine therapist. Ask around and you'll be able to find one

that is a cyclist. There are many around.





-Russell Cree























              __o

              -\<,

.........(O)(O)....................



Russell Cree

700 E. 5th Ave #105

Ellensburg, WA 98926



509.962.1224



























----Original Message Follows----

From: Michael O'Hair <moh-@easystreet.com>

Reply-To: moh-@easystreet.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] ACL thoughts

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:23:20 -0800



One of the problems of finding a Physical Therapist is to find one that

really knows the weight room. When I lost my left ACL and my right PCL in a

skiing accident, I was sent to a PT lab where I rode a stationary bike for a

$100 per hour. I asked the PT person about weight lifting and discovered

that he did not know how to isolate the vastus medialis. I did not return.

I went back to Loprinzi's and worked out with the body builders. I use

muscles to hold my legs together. It's not perfect, but it works.



The moral here is that you have to ask questions and listen carefully to the

answers.







For a nice muscle chart for the legs, go to:   

http://www.mythos.com/webmd/Content.aspx?P=MUSCH1&E=27



   ----- Original Message -----

   From: terra marzano





   I've had multiple surgeries, multiple ACL repairs, multiple experiences.

No matter how frustrating it is, be patient on a trainer/stationary bike.

The more time you put on a trainer, the better your knee will respond to the

jarring actions of being on the road - so stay on a trainer as long as your

trusted and highly competent (and preferably bike-commuting) physical

therapist advises.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



_________________________________________________________________

FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now!

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Michael O'Hair

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One of the problems of finding a Physical Therapist is to find one that really knows the weight room. When I lost my left ACL and my right PCL in a skiing accident, I was sent to a PT lab where I rode a stationary bike for a $100 per hour. I asked the PT person about weight lifting and discovered that he did not know how to isolate the vastus medialis. I did not return. I went back to Loprinzi's and worked out with the body builders. I use muscles to hold my legs together. It's not perfect, but it works.



The moral here is that you have to ask questions and listen carefully to the answers.







For a nice muscle chart for the legs, go to:   http://www.mythos.com/webmd/Content.aspx?P=MUSCH1&E=27



----- Original Message -----

From: terra marzano





I've had multiple surgeries, multiple ACL repairs, multiple experiences. No matter how frustrating it is, be patient on a trainer/stationary bike. The more time you put on a trainer, the better your knee will respond to the jarring actions of being on the road - so stay on a trainer as long as your trusted and highly competent (and preferably bike-commuting) physical therapist advises.









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<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>One of the problems of finding a Physical Therapist

is to find one that really knows the weight room.  When I lost my left

ACL and my right PCL in a skiing accident, I was sent to a PT lab where I rode a

stationary bike for a $100 per hour.  I asked the PT person about weight

lifting and discovered that he did not know how to isolate the vastus

medialis.  I did not return.  I went back to Loprinzi's and worked out

with the body builders.  I use muscles to hold my legs together.  It's

not perfect, but it works.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The moral here is that you have to ask questions

and listen carefully to the answers. </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For a nice muscle chart for the legs, go

to:   </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><A

href="http://www.mythos.com/webmd/Content.aspx?P=MUSCH1&amp;E=27">http://www.mythos.com/webmd/Content.aspx?P=MUSCH1&E=27</A></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=t-@hotmail.com href="mailto:tmar-@hotmail.com">terra

marzano</A> </DIV>

<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>

<P>I've had multiple surgeries, multiple ACL repairs, multiple experiences. No

matter how frustrating it is, be patient on a trainer/stationary bike. The

more time you put on a trainer, the better your knee will respond to the

jarring actions of being on the road - so stay on a trainer as long as

your trusted and highly competent (and preferably bike-commuting) physical

therapist advises. </P>

<P><FONT face=Arial

size=2></FONT> </P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>



------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C40226.88E61790--

mike.m-@obra.org

alee-@earthlink.net [mailto:alee-@earthlink.net] wrote WRT ACL surgery:

"I didn't ride outside for about 3 months. After about 3 months I rode

outside, however, this was without my PT's blessing for fear of falling

on it and re-injuring it."



The risk of injuring an ACL, either the native ligament or the reconstructed

and grafted ligament, while riding a bike is miniscule. I have never seen

one in a bike rider. You should be able to ride outdoors as soon as you

have enough range of motion to do so. Getting range of motion is really

mostly an issue of not losing it in the first place.



Mike Murray

terra marzano

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>

<P>I've had multiple surgeries, multiple ACL repairs, multiple experiences. No matter how frustrating it is, be patient on a trainer/stationary bike. The more time you put on a trainer, the better your knee will respond to the jarring actions of being on the road - so stay on a trainer as long as your trusted and highly competent (and preferably bike-commuting) physical therapist advises. </P>

<P>Yes, you're competitive and serious about cycling, but taking your time will pay-off in the long run and there are few things more aggravating than having to get a second (or third) repair on the same leg. Patience pays off and, once you've healed, you'll be able to compete and tour as well (or better) than you have already. Good luck to you. -Terra<BR><BR></P></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>From: Pat Sagers <PAT_S-@ORCOM.COM>

<DIV></DIV>Reply-To: pat_s-@orcom.com

<DIV></DIV>To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <OB-@TOPICA.COM>

<DIV></DIV>Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ACL thoughts

<DIV></DIV>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:55:50 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>My experience was really a disaster.  The first thing I did after the

<DIV></DIV>initial injury was to immobilize my knee for a couple weeks as I apparently

<DIV></DIV>tore some other tissue around my knee and I would get piercing "screaming"

<DIV></DIV>pain if I moved my knee the wrong way.  This resulted in a ton of muscle

<DIV></DIV>atrophy, which after 5 years, I still haven't gained it all back.

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>Then once the surgery took place, I got on a bike and began to push my leg

<DIV></DIV>too hard.  This led to several other complications and eventually a second

<DIV></DIV>surgery to debris my knee of scar tissue as well as free my patella tendon

<DIV></DIV>from places that it had incorrectly attached/fused.

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>The second surgeon being aware of my tendency to push too hard put me on a

<DIV></DIV>very strict regimen with a lot of accountability.  I had practically no

<DIV></DIV>patella tendon left after he was done and he was worried I'd mess it up some

<DIV></DIV>more.

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>So my personal recipe for recovery is to get as much pt as possible.  Be

<DIV></DIV>diligent to follow ALL the strengthening exercises.  When you can ride

<DIV></DIV>again, use NO resistance for a few months.  Keep the exercises going.  Once

<DIV></DIV>the knee is strong, say 4-6 months after surgery you can begin to add some

<DIV></DIV>light resistance to your riding.  Say go from 75 watts to 100 watts.

<DIV></DIV>Continue to do the leg strengthening exercises.  Probably around 9 months

<DIV></DIV>out you can experiment with harder efforts, but ONLY if you have been

<DIV></DIV>faithful with the leg strengthening exercises.  If you do all that, around

<DIV></DIV>12 months from now you should be ready for full extreme efforts again.

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>If you want to be ready for this race season, I'd say to do it only under

<DIV></DIV>the guidance of several people who really know what they are doing.  Did I

<DIV></DIV>say to be faithful to do the leg strengthening exercises?

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>Have a good swift recovery,

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>Pat

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>> -----Original Message-----

<DIV></DIV>> From: alee-@earthlink.net [mailto:alee-@earthlink.net]

<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:48 PM

<DIV></DIV>> To: ob-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ACL thoughts

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Hi Shane-

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> I can give you some insight as I had ACL reconstruction last May.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> First thing I would say is be patient.  Your knee goes

<DIV></DIV>> through a lot in

<DIV></DIV>> this process and it takes time to heal and to make it stronger.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> I started rehab about 1 week after the surgery and continued everyday

<DIV></DIV>> for 1-3 hours for about 3 months.  This is crucial.  You want to get

<DIV></DIV>> back your mobility and break up the scar tissue.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Riding a bike?  I couldn't do one revolution on a spin bike

<DIV></DIV>> for 3 weeks.

<DIV></DIV>>  However, it's the greatest thing in the world when you can

<DIV></DIV>> get a full

<DIV></DIV>> revolution.  I've heard from others that have had the surgery

<DIV></DIV>> that the

<DIV></DIV>> could pedal within a week.  It all depends on the person I suppose.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> I didn't ride outside for about 3 months.  After about 3

<DIV></DIV>> months I rode

<DIV></DIV>> outside, however, this was without my PT's blessing for fear

<DIV></DIV>> of falling

<DIV></DIV>> on it and re-injuring it.  It was a great 1 hour ride though.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> For training, I've been doing crazy amounts of miles (all base) plus

<DIV></DIV>> rehab since September to be able to race again.  The biggest thing to

<DIV></DIV>> watch out for is muscle imbalances.  I still don't have the

<DIV></DIV>> full girth

<DIV></DIV>> in my new, better leg and battled with achilles tendonitis

<DIV></DIV>> because of it

<DIV></DIV>> (about 3 weeks ago).  This is the same thing that Beloki is going

<DIV></DIV>> through since his crash in Tour.  You have to build the muscle back

<DIV></DIV>> through PT, weights, and hard work.  It will take time.  Like I said

<DIV></DIV>> before, it's different for everyone.  For me it took a long time.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Isolated leg workouts work wonders.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> When all is said and done, you will have a stronger knee, plus this

<DIV></DIV>> experience has been the biggest motivation to train and race

<DIV></DIV>> again that

<DIV></DIV>> I've ever experienced.  Take something away from someone that they're

<DIV></DIV>> passionate about and they'll want it more.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> Hope that helps.  Good luck.

<DIV></DIV>> Shane Stent wrote:

<DIV></DIV>> >

<DIV></DIV>> > Any folks in OBRA land gone through an ACL reconstruction?

<DIV></DIV>> >

<DIV></DIV>> > Any advice?

<DIV></DIV>> >

<DIV></DIV>> > When did you return to racing?

<DIV></DIV>> >

<DIV></DIV>> > Any change when you got back on the bike?

<DIV></DIV>> >

<DIV></DIV>> > Thanks

<DIV></DIV>> >

<DIV></DIV>> > _________________________________________________________________

<DIV></DIV>> > Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - 4 plans

<DIV></DIV>> to choose

<DIV></DIV>> > from!

<DIV></DIV>> > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

<DIV></DIV>> >

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>> To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>> To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>> To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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<DIV></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>

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Pat Sagers

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My experience was really a disaster. The first thing I did after the

initial injury was to immobilize my knee for a couple weeks as I apparently

tore some other tissue around my knee and I would get piercing "screaming"

pain if I moved my knee the wrong way. This resulted in a ton of muscle

atrophy, which after 5 years, I still haven't gained it all back.



Then once the surgery took place, I got on a bike and began to push my leg

too hard. This led to several other complications and eventually a second

surgery to debris my knee of scar tissue as well as free my patella tendon

from places that it had incorrectly attached/fused.



The second surgeon being aware of my tendency to push too hard put me on a

very strict regimen with a lot of accountability. I had practically no

patella tendon left after he was done and he was worried I'd mess it up some

more.



So my personal recipe for recovery is to get as much pt as possible. Be

diligent to follow ALL the strengthening exercises. When you can ride

again, use NO resistance for a few months. Keep the exercises going. Once

the knee is strong, say 4-6 months after surgery you can begin to add some

light resistance to your riding. Say go from 75 watts to 100 watts.

Continue to do the leg strengthening exercises. Probably around 9 months

out you can experiment with harder efforts, but ONLY if you have been

faithful with the leg strengthening exercises. If you do all that, around

12 months from now you should be ready for full extreme efforts again.



If you want to be ready for this race season, I'd say to do it only under

the guidance of several people who really know what they are doing. Did I

say to be faithful to do the leg strengthening exercises?



Have a good swift recovery,



Pat



 -----Original Message-----

From: alee-@earthlink.net [mailto:alee-@earthlink.net]

Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ACL thoughts





Hi Shane-



I can give you some insight as I had ACL reconstruction last May.



First thing I would say is be patient. Your knee goes

through a lot in

this process and it takes time to heal and to make it stronger.



I started rehab about 1 week after the surgery and continued everyday

for 1-3 hours for about 3 months. This is crucial. You want to get

back your mobility and break up the scar tissue.



Riding a bike? I couldn't do one revolution on a spin bike

for 3 weeks.

However, it's the greatest thing in the world when you can

get a full

revolution. I've heard from others that have had the surgery

that the

could pedal within a week. It all depends on the person I suppose.



I didn't ride outside for about 3 months. After about 3

months I rode

outside, however, this was without my PT's blessing for fear

of falling

on it and re-injuring it. It was a great 1 hour ride though.



For training, I've been doing crazy amounts of miles (all base) plus

rehab since September to be able to race again. The biggest thing to

watch out for is muscle imbalances. I still don't have the

full girth

in my new, better leg and battled with achilles tendonitis

because of it

(about 3 weeks ago). This is the same thing that Beloki is going

through since his crash in Tour. You have to build the muscle back

through PT, weights, and hard work. It will take time. Like I said

before, it's different for everyone. For me it took a long time.



Isolated leg workouts work wonders.



When all is said and done, you will have a stronger knee, plus this

experience has been the biggest motivation to train and race

again that

I've ever experienced. Take something away from someone that they're

passionate about and they'll want it more.



Hope that helps. Good luck.

Shane Stent wrote:

 

Any folks in OBRA land gone through an ACL reconstruction?



Any advice?



When did you return to racing?



Any change when you got back on the bike?



Thanks



_________________________________________________________________

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>My experience was really a disaster.  The first thing I did after the initial injury was to immobilize my knee for a couple weeks as I apparently tore some other tissue around my knee and I would get piercing "screaming" pain if I moved my knee the wrong way.  This resulted in a ton of muscle atrophy, which after 5 years, I still haven't gained it all back.</FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>Then once the surgery took place, I got on a bike and began to push my leg too hard.  This led to several other complications and eventually a second surgery to debris my knee of scar tissue as well as free my patella tendon from places that it had incorrectly attached/fused.</FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>The second surgeon being aware of my tendency to push too hard put me on a very strict regimen with a lot of accountability.  I had practically no patella tendon left after he was done and he was worried I'd mess it up some more.</FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>So my personal recipe for recovery is to get as much pt as possible.  Be diligent to follow ALL the strengthening exercises.  When you can ride again, use NO resistance for a few months.  Keep the exercises going.  Once the knee is strong, say 4-6 months after surgery you can begin to add some light resistance to your riding.  Say go from 75 watts to 100 watts.  Continue to do the leg strengthening exercises.  Probably around 9 months out you can experiment with harder efforts, but ONLY if you have been faithful with the leg strengthening exercises.  If you do all that, around 12 months from now you should be ready for full extreme efforts again.</FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>If you want to be ready for this race season, I'd say to do it only under the guidance of several people who really know what they are doing.  Did I say to be faithful to do the leg strengthening exercises?</FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>Have a good swift recovery,</FONT>

</P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>Pat</FONT>

</P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From: alee-@earthlink.net [<A HREF="mailto:alee-@earthlink.net">mailto:alee-@earthlink.net</A>]</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:48 PM</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To: ob-@topica.com</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ACL thoughts</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Hi Shane-</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I can give you some insight as I had ACL reconstruction last May.  </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> First thing I would say is be patient.  Your knee goes </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> through a lot in </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> this process and it takes time to heal and to make it stronger.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I started rehab about 1 week after the surgery and continued everyday </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> for 1-3 hours for about 3 months.  This is crucial.  You want to get </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> back your mobility and break up the scar tissue.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Riding a bike?  I couldn't do one revolution on a spin bike </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> for 3 weeks. </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>  However, it's the greatest thing in the world when you can </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> get a full </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> revolution.  I've heard from others that have had the surgery </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> that the </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> could pedal within a week.  It all depends on the person I suppose.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I didn't ride outside for about 3 months.  After about 3 </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> months I rode </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> outside, however, this was without my PT's blessing for fear </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> of falling </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> on it and re-injuring it.  It was a great 1 hour ride though.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> For training, I've been doing crazy amounts of miles (all base) plus </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> rehab since September to be able to race again.  The biggest thing to </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> watch out for is muscle imbalances.  I still don't have the </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> full girth </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> in my new, better leg and battled with achilles tendonitis </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> because of it </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> (about 3 weeks ago).  This is the same thing that Beloki is going </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> through since his crash in Tour.  You have to build the muscle back </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> through PT, weights, and hard work.  It will take time.  Like I said </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> before, it's different for everyone.  For me it took a long time.  </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Isolated leg workouts work wonders.  </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> When all is said and done, you will have a stronger knee, plus this </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> experience has been the biggest motivation to train and race </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> again that </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I've ever experienced.  Take something away from someone that they're </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> passionate about and they'll want it more.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Hope that helps.  Good luck. </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Shane Stent wrote:</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Any folks in OBRA land gone through an ACL reconstruction?</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Any advice?</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > When did you return to racing?</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Any change when you got back on the bike?</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Thanks</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > _________________________________________________________________</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - 4 plans </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> to choose </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > from! </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > <A HREF="http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/" TARGET="_blank">http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/</A></FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> > </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</FONT>

</P>



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----=_NextPart_ST_13_56_02_Thursday_March_04_2004_14646--

alee-@earthlink.net

Hi Shane-



I can give you some insight as I had ACL reconstruction last May.



First thing I would say is be patient. Your knee goes through a lot in

this process and it takes time to heal and to make it stronger.



I started rehab about 1 week after the surgery and continued everyday

for 1-3 hours for about 3 months. This is crucial. You want to get

back your mobility and break up the scar tissue.



Riding a bike? I couldn't do one revolution on a spin bike for 3 weeks.

However, it's the greatest thing in the world when you can get a full

revolution. I've heard from others that have had the surgery that the

could pedal within a week. It all depends on the person I suppose.



I didn't ride outside for about 3 months. After about 3 months I rode

outside, however, this was without my PT's blessing for fear of falling

on it and re-injuring it. It was a great 1 hour ride though.



For training, I've been doing crazy amounts of miles (all base) plus

rehab since September to be able to race again. The biggest thing to

watch out for is muscle imbalances. I still don't have the full girth

in my new, better leg and battled with achilles tendonitis because of it

(about 3 weeks ago). This is the same thing that Beloki is going

through since his crash in Tour. You have to build the muscle back

through PT, weights, and hard work. It will take time. Like I said

before, it's different for everyone. For me it took a long time.



Isolated leg workouts work wonders.



When all is said and done, you will have a stronger knee, plus this

experience has been the biggest motivation to train and race again that

I've ever experienced. Take something away from someone that they're

passionate about and they'll want it more.



Hope that helps. Good luck.

Shane Stent wrote:

 

Any folks in OBRA land gone through an ACL reconstruction?



Any advice?



When did you return to racing?



Any change when you got back on the bike?



Thanks



_________________________________________________________________

Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage ? 4 plans to choose

from!

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Shane Stent

Any folks in OBRA land gone through an ACL reconstruction?



Any advice?



When did you return to racing?



Any change when you got back on the bike?



Thanks



_________________________________________________________________

Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage ? 4 plans to choose from!

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/