ettiquette?

Dan H.

2004-03-16



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Did I ever tell you about the time I caught flak from several directions for wearing a jersey with "EAT ME" emblazoned on it in reflective prismatic letters? It seemed some folks did not appreciate the "Animal House" reference and thought it was offensive. It did keep me safe while riding at night though.

----- Original Message -----

From: John Schader

To: oregon-@cs.com

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:21 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?





Sounds like a silly discussion to me. (But here I am being silly with the rest of you. This is probably email #51 on this topic - sorry.) I'm sure the spirit of the rule is to make it clear that it is not ethical to impersonate a local team member by wearing the team kit of a team one does not belong to. That would be deceitful.



Other than that, why should anyone care what kind of jersey one wears. Mapei team kit, National Champ, Maillot Jaune, Polka Dot, Pink or anything else. No one in an OBRA race is going to think he's racing against Lance if someone shows up in The Yellow Jersey. If the powers that be or the champions themselves thought it mattered, those jerseys would not be mass produced and sold to the general public. Why should you care if they don't? To many it's a sign of respect, recognition and flattery to wear the team kits of the pros and the leader's jerseys of the grand tours. To others it's just fun. I think it's not nice to try and embarrass people by telling them it's against etiquette to wear that cool jersey they just bought from that Euro-whatever web site. You can make fun of me the next time you see me in the defunct team Festina kit, but just know that I don't give a crap what you think about what's appropriate to wear in a bike race. Okay, that's me, and I think it would be fun to play a little Chopsticks on Chopin's ivories too.



Peter LaPorte <oregon-@cs.com> wrote:

    Peter



    Brave of you to step forward. As to the issue, I am of two minds. First, I do wear team kit - Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to be precise. I like the designs, like Tyler (guess I should change the CSC jersey) and so on.



    But, I would NEVER wear a yellow jersey, KOM jersey (ha!) or national champion jersey. Friends gave me the commemorative Lance Trek yellow jersey last year - it sits in my closet unused.



    Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are something else. My daughter is a pianist - but she would never even consider play Chopin's ore Beethoven's piano.



    I wasn't there so I can't comment on your civility or tone. But, the underlying message: humility and, as you suggest, knowing your place in the grand scheme of things.



    Peter LaPorte



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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Did I ever tell you about the time I caught flak

from several directions for wearing a jersey with "EAT ME" emblazoned on

it in reflective prismatic letters?  It seemed some folks did not

appreciate the "Animal House" reference and thought it was offensive. It did

keep me safe while riding at night though.</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=-@wans.net href="mailto:voy-@wans.net">John Schader</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=ore-@cs.com

href="mailto:oregon-@cs.com">oregon-@cs.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:21

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat]

ettiquette?</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>Sounds like a silly discussion to me. (But here I am being

silly with the rest of you. This is probably email #51 on this topic - sorry.)

I'm sure the spirit of the rule is to make it clear that it is not ethical to

impersonate a local team member by wearing the team kit of a team one does not

belong to. That would be deceitful.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Other than that, why should anyone care what kind of jersey one wears.

Mapei team kit, National Champ, Maillot Jaune, Polka Dot, Pink or

anything else. No one in an OBRA race is going to think he's racing against

Lance if someone shows up in The Yellow Jersey. If the powers that be or

the champions themselves thought it mattered, those jerseys would not be mass

produced and sold to the general public. Why should you care if they don't? To

many it's a sign of respect, recognition and flattery to wear the team

kits of the pros and the leader's jerseys of the grand tours. To others it's

just fun. I think it's not nice to try and embarrass people by telling them

it's against etiquette to wear that cool jersey they just bought from

that Euro-whatever web site. You can make fun of me the next time you see me

in the defunct team Festina kit, but just know that I don't give a

crap what you think about what's appropriate to wear in a bike race. Okay,

that's me, and I think it would be fun to play a little Chopsticks on

Chopin's ivories too.<BR><BR><B><I>Peter LaPorte

<oregon-@cs.com></I></B> wrote: </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq

style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><FONT

    face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"

    PTSIZE="10">Peter<BR><BR>Brave of you to step forward. As to the issue, I am

    of two minds. First, I do wear team kit - Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to

    be precise. I like the designs, like Tyler (guess I should change the CSC

    jersey) and so on.<BR><BR>But, I would NEVER wear a yellow jersey, KOM

    jersey (ha!) or national champion jersey. Friends gave me the commemorative

    Lance Trek yellow jersey last year - it sits in my closet unused.

    <BR><BR>Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are something else. My

    daughter is a pianist - but she would never even consider play Chopin's ore

    Beethoven's piano.<BR><BR>I wasn't there so I can't comment on your civility

    or tone. But, the underlying message: humility and, as you suggest, knowing

    your place in the grand scheme of things.<BR><BR>Peter LaPorte<BR></FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>



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John Schader

2004-03-16



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Sounds like a silly discussion to me. (But here I am being silly with the rest of you. This is probably email #51 on this topic - sorry.) I'm sure the spirit of the rule is to make it clear that it is not ethical to impersonate a local team member by wearing the team kit of a team one does not belong to. That would be deceitful.



Other than that, why should anyone care what kind of jersey one wears. Mapei team kit, National Champ, Maillot Jaune, Polka Dot, Pink or anything else. No one in an OBRA race is going to think he's racing against Lance if someone shows up in The Yellow Jersey. If the powers that be or the champions themselves thought it mattered, those jerseys would not be mass produced and sold to the general public. Why should you care if they don't? To many it's a sign of respect, recognition and flattery to wear the team kits of the pros and the leader's jerseys of the grand tours. To others it's just fun. I think it's not nice to try and embarrass people by telling them it's against etiquette to wear that cool jersey they just bought from that Euro-whatever web site. You can make fun of me the next time you see me in the defunct team Festina kit, but just know that I don't give a crap what you think about what's appropriate to wear in a bike race. Okay, that's me, and I think it would be fun to

play a little Chopsticks on Chopin's ivories too.



Peter LaPorte <oregon-@cs.com> wrote:

Peter



Brave of you to step forward. As to the issue, I am of two minds. First, I do wear team kit - Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to be precise. I like the designs, like Tyler (guess I should change the CSC jersey) and so on.



But, I would NEVER wear a yellow jersey, KOM jersey (ha!) or national champion jersey. Friends gave me the commemorative Lance Trek yellow jersey last year - it sits in my closet unused.



Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are something else. My daughter is a pianist - but she would never even consider play Chopin's ore Beethoven's piano.



I wasn't there so I can't comment on your civility or tone. But, the underlying message: humility and, as you suggest, knowing your place in the grand scheme of things.



Peter LaPorte



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.orgTo unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







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<DIV>

<DIV>Sounds like a silly discussion to me. (But here I am being silly with the rest of you. This is probably email #51 on this topic - sorry.) I'm sure the spirit of the rule is to make it clear that it is not ethical to impersonate a local team member by wearing the team kit of a team one does not belong to. That would be deceitful.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Other than that, why should anyone care what kind of jersey one wears. Mapei team kit, National Champ, Maillot Jaune, Polka Dot, Pink or anything else. No one in an OBRA race is going to think he's racing against Lance if someone shows up in The Yellow Jersey. If the powers that be or the champions themselves thought it mattered, those jerseys would not be mass produced and sold to the general public. Why should you care if they don't? To many it's a sign of respect, recognition and flattery to wear the team kits of the pros and the leader's jerseys of the grand tours. To others it's just fun. I think it's not nice to try and embarrass people by telling them it's against etiquette to wear that cool jersey they just bought from that Euro-whatever web site. You can make fun of me the next time you see me in the defunct team Festina kit, but just know that I don't give a crap what you think about what's appropriate to wear in a bike race. Okay, that's

me, and I think it would be fun to play a little Chopsticks on Chopin's ivories too.<BR><BR><B><I>Peter LaPorte <oregon-@cs.com></I></B> wrote: </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Peter<BR><BR>Brave of you to step forward. As to the issue, I am of two minds. First, I do wear team kit - Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to be precise. I like the designs, like Tyler (guess I should change the CSC jersey) and so on.<BR><BR>But, I would NEVER wear a yellow jersey, KOM jersey (ha!) or national champion jersey. Friends gave me the commemorative Lance Trek yellow jersey last year - it sits in my closet unused. <BR><BR>Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are something else. My daughter is a pianist - but she would never even consider play Chopin's ore Beethoven's piano.<BR><BR>I wasn't there so I can't comment on your civility or tone. But, the underlying message: humility and, as you suggest, knowing your place in the grand scheme of things.<BR><BR>Peter

LaPorte<BR></FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV>

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Greg Umscheid

2004-03-16



Right on Craig! I was thinking the exact same thing.



Greg Umscheid





 From: Craig Austin <aust-@exponent.com>

Reply-To: aust-@exponent.com

To: "'ob-@topica.com'" <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:58:19 -0800



Yeah, it's up to us old masters racers to help these young whippersnappers

"know their place" as Peter and Peter seem to want. That way, in ten years

we won't HAVE any more old masters racers because the young kids will get

turned off by the elitist attitude that OBRA and most Oregon racers have

tried so hard to get away from.



While we're at it, I suggest we boycott all the catalogs, not to mention

all

the local bike shops, that sell any pro team jerseys, as they're clearly

setting people up for embarrassment and humiliation at the hands of us more

knowledgeable and right-thinking riders. Oh, and USAC needs to quit getting

a small percentage of the sale of national champion jerseys, because god

knows they don't need the money.



Or maybe we're just all full of crap and should just encourage more people

to ride and race, period. As they get more experience, they'll learn

etiquette and manners, and, in some cases, "their place." Chances of one

of

these new riders crashing the party and ending up on the podium at

nationals

are probably not too good, so Jonathan Page won't have to feel slighted.



Craig Austin



-----Original Message-----

From: Peter LaPorte [mailto:oregon-@cs.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:14 PM

To: wind-@hevanet.com; ob-@topica.com

Cc: da-@preciseflight.com; matt_m-@hp.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?





Peter



Brave of you to step forward. As to the issue, I am of two minds. First, I

do wear team kit - Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to be precise. I like the

designs, like Tyler (guess I should change the CSC jersey) and so on.



But, I would NEVER wear a yellow jersey, KOM jersey (ha!) or national

champion jersey. Friends gave me the commemorative Lance Trek yellow jersey

last year - it sits in my closet unused.



Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are something else. My daughter

is a pianist - but she would never even consider play Chopin's ore

Beethoven's piano.



I wasn't there so I can't comment on your civility or tone. But, the

underlying message: humility and, as you suggest, knowing your place in the

grand scheme of things.



Peter LaPorte



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



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Susan Otcenas

2004-03-16



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The teams license and SELL these jerseys.   They make money off of those

sales, generally.   They obviously intend them to be worn.    



Packers fans wear Packers jerseys to games. Yankees fans wear Yankees

jerseys to games. Does this make you think the person in the jersey must be

on the team? Or that they've somehow not "earned" the right to wear the

jersey & show their team spirit & admiration for the accomplishments of that

team? Trek makes a postal service bike. Is one allowed to purchase and

ride it only if they can keep up with the Great One himself?



I can't speak to the appropriateness of wearing a pro-team jersey in a local

race. If the rules don't ban it, it seems to me you should give the kid a

break. And if you disagree, perhaps tactfully and quietly (so as not to

embarrass the person into never showing up again for fear of breaking some

other unspoken "rule") take that person aside and mentor them a little. As

someone else recently posted, the future of the sport is in the youngsters.

Let's not scare them off.



Just my 2 cents,



Susan











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<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004></SPAN><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT

face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The

teams license and SELL these jerseys.   They make money off of those

sales, generally.   They obviously intend them to be

worn.    </FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2>Packers fans wear Packers jerseys to games.  Yankees fans

wear Yankees jerseys to games.  Does this make you think the person in the

jersey must be on the team?  Or that they've somehow not "earned" the right

to wear the jersey & show their team spirit & admiration for the

accomplishments of that team?  Trek makes a postal service bike.  Is

one allowed to purchase and ride it only if they can keep up with the Great One

himself?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I

can't speak to the appropriateness of wearing a pro-team jersey in a local

race.  If the rules don't ban it, it seems to me you should give the kid a

break.  And if you disagree, perhaps tactfully and quietly (so as not to

embarrass the person into never showing up again for fear of breaking some other

unspoken "rule") take that person aside and mentor them a little.  As

someone else recently posted, the future of the sport is in the

youngsters.   Let's not scare them off.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Just

my 2 cents,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2>Susan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

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size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

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thomas morgan

2004-03-16



<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>

<P>The sad part is obviously the older person who was giving the younger guy a hard time must not have know what a national championship jersey looks like, granted if not for the fact that I know a couple of people much faster than me I wouldn't either.  The jersey in question as the person said is a Trek jersey not a national championship jersey, yes its red, white, and blue, but I think it resembles the old team Brooklyn jersey more than a national champion jersey.  Granted even if it had been a national championship jersey thats no reason to be rude.  <BR><BR></P></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>>From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn <CMUR-@OBRA.ORG>

<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>To: obra <OB-@TOPICA.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:46:17 -0800

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>-----Original Message-----

<DIV></DIV>>From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

<DIV></DIV>>To: cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>Subject:

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>Hi all

<DIV></DIV>>I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it.

<DIV></DIV>>I was at the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was warming

<DIV></DIV>>up next to a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened to be

<DIV></DIV>>warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up walks a 30

<DIV></DIV>>or 40 something racer walks over looks him in the face and says "who are

<DIV></DIV>>you"? And the kid is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older racer finds

<DIV></DIV>>out he's "nobody that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey at a

<DIV></DIV>>race" he walks off and says so we can all here it "some one should teach him

<DIV></DIV>>some race edict " This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA cycling

<DIV></DIV>>race then yes no Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he did not

<DIV></DIV>>race in it.  This kind of thing is what drives racers away from road racing!

<DIV></DIV>>We do not need this elitist attitude!!!

<DIV></DIV>>Thanks

<DIV></DIV>>Dan Davis

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

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Craig Austin

2004-03-16



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Yeah, it's up to us old masters racers to help these young whippersnappers

"know their place" as Peter and Peter seem to want. That way, in ten years

we won't HAVE any more old masters racers because the young kids will get

turned off by the elitist attitude that OBRA and most Oregon racers have

tried so hard to get away from.



While we're at it, I suggest we boycott all the catalogs, not to mention all

the local bike shops, that sell any pro team jerseys, as they're clearly

setting people up for embarrassment and humiliation at the hands of us more

knowledgeable and right-thinking riders. Oh, and USAC needs to quit getting

a small percentage of the sale of national champion jerseys, because god

knows they don't need the money.



Or maybe we're just all full of crap and should just encourage more people

to ride and race, period. As they get more experience, they'll learn

etiquette and manners, and, in some cases, "their place." Chances of one of

these new riders crashing the party and ending up on the podium at nationals

are probably not too good, so Jonathan Page won't have to feel slighted.



Craig Austin



-----Original Message-----

From: Peter LaPorte [mailto:oregon-@cs.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:14 PM

To: wind-@hevanet.com; ob-@topica.com

Cc: da-@preciseflight.com; matt_m-@hp.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?





Peter



Brave of you to step forward. As to the issue, I am of two minds. First, I

do wear team kit - Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to be precise. I like the

designs, like Tyler (guess I should change the CSC jersey) and so on.



But, I would NEVER wear a yellow jersey, KOM jersey (ha!) or national

champion jersey. Friends gave me the commemorative Lance Trek yellow jersey

last year - it sits in my closet unused.



Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are something else. My daughter

is a pianist - but she would never even consider play Chopin's ore

Beethoven's piano.



I wasn't there so I can't comment on your civility or tone. But, the

underlying message: humility and, as you suggest, knowing your place in the

grand scheme of things.



Peter LaPorte



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





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<DIV><SPAN class=020092520-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Yeah,

it's up to us old masters racers to help these young whippersnappers "know their

place" as Peter and Peter seem to want. That way, in ten years we

won't HAVE any more old masters racers because the young kids will get turned

off by the elitist attitude that OBRA and most Oregon racers have tried so hard

to get away from. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=020092520-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=020092520-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>While

we're at it, I suggest we boycott all the catalogs, not to mention all

the local bike shops, that sell any pro team jerseys, as they're

clearly setting people up for embarrassment and humiliation at the hands of us

more knowledgeable and right-thinking riders. Oh, and USAC needs to quit getting

a small percentage of the sale of national champion jerseys, because god knows

they don't need the money. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=020092520-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=020092520-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Or

maybe we're just all full of crap and should just encourage more people to ride

and race, period. As they get more experience, they'll learn etiquette and

manners, and, in some cases, "their place."  Chances of one of these new

riders crashing the party and ending up on the podium at nationals are probably

not too good, so Jonathan Page won't have to feel slighted. 

</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=020092520-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=020092520-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Craig

Austin</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma

size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Peter LaPorte

[mailto:oregon-@cs.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:14

PM<BR><B>To:</B> wind-@hevanet.com; ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Cc:</B>

da-@preciseflight.com; matt_m-@hp.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat]

ettiquette?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0

face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">Peter<BR><BR>Brave of you to

step forward. As to the issue, I am of two minds. First, I do wear team kit -

Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to be precise. I like the designs, like Tyler

(guess I should change the CSC jersey) and so on.<BR><BR>But, I would NEVER

wear a yellow jersey, KOM jersey (ha!) or national champion jersey. Friends

gave me the commemorative Lance Trek yellow jersey last year - it sits in my

closet unused. <BR><BR>Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are

something else. My daughter is a pianist - but she would never even consider

play Chopin's ore Beethoven's piano.<BR><BR>I wasn't there so I can't comment

on your civility or tone. But, the underlying message: humility and, as you

suggest, knowing your place in the grand scheme of things.<BR><BR>Peter

LaPorte<BR></FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>



------_=_NextPart_001_01C40B99.692AA200--



Aaron.-@ch2m.com

2004-03-16



This is a multi-part message in MIME format.



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Did you ever think some "racers" may not know what the jersey's stand

for?? Coming from a person that worn the world champ jersey earlier on

because I thought it looked cool, just be glad the people are out

enjoying/supporting the sport, paying their entry fee, and leave it at

that.





Aaron Leritz, CHMM

CH2M HILL, Inc.

825 NE Multnomah Suite 1300

Portland, OR 97232

aler-@ch2m.com

Phone (503) 235-5022 ext. 4267

Fax (503) 736-2021



-----Original Message-----

From: JM Newman [mailto:newm-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:10 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?























True enough, Oregon is a great place to race. This coming from

experiences in many, many regions. Who is to say a kid warming up for a

late winter tt in a stars and stripes jacket didn't get it from an

uncle, aunt or neighbor? The guy who tried to "set the kid straight,"

should either explain etiquette more tactfully while giving the kid a

ride to the next race, or concentrate on polishing his carbon skewers

while committing the latest glossy paged mail order catalog to memory.



When Mark Ginsberg first met Solomon Woras who was riding an

early 70's Peugeot and wearing cotton long johns under his bike shorts

complete with duct-tape over the rips and tears, he didn't pull an

attitude and not ride with the kid because Ti-rain bikes don't mix with

steel rims and center pull brakes. Instead he gave Solomon his phone

number. After this years Banana Belt Series, I'm sure we'll all agree

that Mark did the right thing.



The moral of the story is to get over your bad self and offer

help, not condemnation to the youngsters. After all, the youth are the

future of sport, not masters.



-James Newman







>From: Luciano bailey

>Reply-To: ride-@hotmail.com

>To: cmur-@obra.org, ob-@topica.com

>Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:48:20 +0000

>

>Hooray

>As a non native racer rider let me say the most attractive

thing

>about Oregon racing was the inclusivity, and family sense which

seem

>to surround the whole environment lets keep it that way.

>

>

>>From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn

>>Reply-To: cmur-@obra.org

>>To: obra

>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:46:17 -0800

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>-----Original Message-----

>>From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

>>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

>>To: cmur-@obra.org

>>Subject:

>>

>>

>>Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.

>>

>>Hi all

>>I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear

it.

>>I was at the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I

was

>>warming

>>up next to a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he

happened

>>to be

>>warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race jersey.

Up

>>walks a 30

>>or 40 something racer walks over looks him in the face and

says

>>"who are

>>you"? And the kid is a bit taken aback by it, so when the

older

>>racer finds

>>out he's "nobody that should be wearing a stares and strips

jersey

>>at a

>>race" he walks off and says so we can all here it "some one

should

>>teach him

>>some race edict " This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big

USA

>>cycling

>>race then yes no Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and

he

>>did not

>>race in it. This kind of thing is what drives racers away

from

>>road racing!

>>We do not need this elitist attitude!!!

>>Thanks

>>Dan Davis

>>

>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

>>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>



 _________________________________________________________________

>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life,

from

>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx

>

>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

>

>



_____



Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click

here. <http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2755??PS=>

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C40B96.2848CAF6

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">

<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>

<BODY>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=480593120-16032004>Did

you ever think some "racers" may not know what the jersey's stand for?? 

Coming from a person that worn the world champ jersey earlier on because I

thought it looked cool, just be glad the people are out enjoying/supporting the

sport, paying their entry fee, and leave it at that. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2><STRONG>Aaron Leritz,

CHMM</STRONG></FONT></DIV>

<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>CH2M HILL, Inc.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>825 NE Multnomah Suite 1300</FONT></DIV>

<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Portland, OR 97232</FONT></DIV>

<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><A

href="mailto:aler-@ch2m.com">aler-@ch2m.com</A></FONT></DIV>

<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Phone (503) 235-5022 ext.

4267</FONT></DIV>

<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fax (503) 736-2021</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT

face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> JM Newman

[mailto:newm-@hotmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:10

PM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [OBRA Chat]

ettiquette?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>

<DIV>

<P><BR><BR></P>

<DIV>

<P><BR><BR></P>

<DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>

<P>True enough, Oregon is a great place to race. This coming from experiences

in many, many regions. Who is to say a kid warming up for a late winter tt in

a stars and stripes jacket didn't get it from an uncle, aunt or neighbor?

The guy who tried to "set the kid straight," should either explain etiquette

more tactfully while giving the kid a ride to the next race, or concentrate on

polishing his carbon skewers while committing the latest glossy

paged mail order catalog to memory.</P>

<P>When Mark Ginsberg first met Solomon Woras who was riding an early

70's Peugeot and wearing cotton long johns under his bike shorts complete with

duct-tape over the rips and tears, he didn't pull an attitude and not ride

with the kid because Ti-rain bikes don't mix with steel rims and center pull

brakes. Instead he gave Solomon his phone number. After this years Banana

Belt Series, I'm sure we'll all agree that Mark did the right thing.</P>

<P>The moral of the story is to get over your bad self and offer help, not

condemnation to the youngsters. After all, the youth are the future of sport,

not masters.</P>

<P>-James Newman<BR><BR></P></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>>From: Luciano bailey <RIDE-@HOTMAIL.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: ride-@hotmail.com

<DIV></DIV>>To: cmur-@obra.org, ob-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:48:20 +0000

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>Hooray

<DIV></DIV>>As a non native racer rider let me say the most attractive

thing

<DIV></DIV>>about Oregon racing was the inclusivity, and family sense which

seem

<DIV></DIV>>to surround the whole environment lets keep it that way.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>>From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn

<CMUR-@OBRA.ORG>

<DIV></DIV>>>Reply-To: cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>>To: obra <OB-@TOPICA.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:46:17 -0800

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>-----Original Message-----

<DIV></DIV>>>From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

<DIV></DIV>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

<DIV></DIV>>>To: cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>>Subject:

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>Hi all

<DIV></DIV>>>I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to

hear it.

<DIV></DIV>>>I was at the first built for speed TT this last weekend,

and I was

<DIV></DIV>>>warming

<DIV></DIV>>>up next to a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he

happened

<DIV></DIV>>>to be

<DIV></DIV>>>warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race

jersey. Up

<DIV></DIV>>>walks a 30

<DIV></DIV>>>or 40 something racer walks over looks him in the face and

says

<DIV></DIV>>>"who are

<DIV></DIV>>>you"? And the kid is a bit taken aback by it, so when the

older

<DIV></DIV>>>racer finds

<DIV></DIV>>>out he's "nobody that should be wearing a stares and strips

jersey

<DIV></DIV>>>at a

<DIV></DIV>>>race" he walks off and says so we can all here it "some one

should

<DIV></DIV>>>teach him

<DIV></DIV>>>some race edict " This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a

big USA

<DIV></DIV>>>cycling

<DIV></DIV>>>race then yes no Stares and strips Jersey but we were not,

and he

<DIV></DIV>>>did not

<DIV></DIV>>>race in it.  This kind of thing is what drives

racers away from

<DIV></DIV>>>road racing!

<DIV></DIV>>>We do not need this elitist attitude!!!

<DIV></DIV>>>Thanks

<DIV></DIV>>>Dan Davis

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>_________________________________________________________________



<DIV></DIV>>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life,

from

<DIV></DIV>>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>

<HR>

<A href="http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2755??PS=">Get a FREE online computer virus

scan from McAfee when you click here.</A> <PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C40B96.2848CAF6--



Oregon-@cs.com

2004-03-16





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Peter



Brave of you to step forward. As to the issue, I am of two minds. First, I do

wear team kit - Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to be precise. I like the

designs, like Tyler (guess I should change the CSC jersey) and so on.



But, I would NEVER wear a yellow jersey, KOM jersey (ha!) or national

champion jersey. Friends gave me the commemorative Lance Trek yellow jersey last year

- it sits in my closet unused.



Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are something else. My daughter

is a pianist - but she would never even consider play Chopin's ore Beethoven's

piano.



I wasn't there so I can't comment on your civility or tone. But, the

underlying message: humility and, as you suggest, knowing your place in the grand

scheme of things.



Peter LaPorte



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Peter<BR>

<BR>

Brave of you to step forward. As to the issue, I am of two minds. First, I do wear team kit - Fakta, CSC and Credit Agricole to be precise. I like the designs, like Tyler (guess I should change the CSC jersey) and so on.<BR>

<BR>

But, I would NEVER wear a yellow jersey, KOM jersey (ha!) or national champion jersey. Friends gave me the commemorative Lance Trek yellow jersey last year - it sits in my closet unused. <BR>

<BR>

Team kit is one thing - recognition jerseys are something else. My daughter is a pianist - but she would never even consider play Chopin's ore Beethoven's piano.<BR>

<BR>

I wasn't there so I can't comment on your civility or tone. But, the underlying message: humility and, as you suggest, knowing your place in the grand scheme of things.<BR>

<BR>

Peter LaPorte<BR>

</FONT></HTML>

--part1_154.303be6e3.2d88ba1c_boundary--



JM Newman

2004-03-16



<html><div style='background-color:'><P><BR><BR></P>

<DIV>

<P><BR><BR></P>

<DIV>

<DIV class=RTE>

<P>True enough, Oregon is a great place to race. This coming from experiences in many, many regions. Who is to say a kid warming up for a late winter tt in a stars and stripes jacket didn't get it from an uncle, aunt or neighbor? The guy who tried to "set the kid straight," should either explain etiquette more tactfully while giving the kid a ride to the next race, or concentrate on polishing his carbon skewers while committing the latest glossy paged mail order catalog to memory.</P>

<P>When Mark Ginsberg first met Solomon Woras who was riding an early 70's Peugeot and wearing cotton long johns under his bike shorts complete with duct-tape over the rips and tears, he didn't pull an attitude and not ride with the kid because Ti-rain bikes don't mix with steel rims and center pull brakes. Instead he gave Solomon his phone number. After this years Banana Belt Series, I'm sure we'll all agree that Mark did the right thing.</P>

<P>The moral of the story is to get over your bad self and offer help, not condemnation to the youngsters. After all, the youth are the future of sport, not masters.</P>

<P>-James Newman<BR><BR></P></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>>From: Luciano bailey <RIDE-@HOTMAIL.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: ride-@hotmail.com

<DIV></DIV>>To: cmur-@obra.org, ob-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:48:20 +0000

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>Hooray

<DIV></DIV>>As a non native racer rider let me say the most attractive thing

<DIV></DIV>>about Oregon racing was the inclusivity, and family sense which seem

<DIV></DIV>>to surround the whole environment lets keep it that way.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>>From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn <CMUR-@OBRA.ORG>

<DIV></DIV>>>Reply-To: cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>>To: obra <OB-@TOPICA.COM>

<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:46:17 -0800

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>-----Original Message-----

<DIV></DIV>>>From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

<DIV></DIV>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

<DIV></DIV>>>To: cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>>Subject:

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>Hi all

<DIV></DIV>>>I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it.

<DIV></DIV>>>I was at the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was

<DIV></DIV>>>warming

<DIV></DIV>>>up next to a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened

<DIV></DIV>>>to be

<DIV></DIV>>>warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up

<DIV></DIV>>>walks a 30

<DIV></DIV>>>or 40 something racer walks over looks him in the face and says

<DIV></DIV>>>"who are

<DIV></DIV>>>you"? And the kid is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older

<DIV></DIV>>>racer finds

<DIV></DIV>>>out he's "nobody that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey

<DIV></DIV>>>at a

<DIV></DIV>>>race" he walks off and says so we can all here it "some one should

<DIV></DIV>>>teach him

<DIV></DIV>>>some race edict " This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA

<DIV></DIV>>>cycling

<DIV></DIV>>>race then yes no Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he

<DIV></DIV>>>did not

<DIV></DIV>>>race in it.  This kind of thing is what drives racers away from

<DIV></DIV>>>road racing!

<DIV></DIV>>>We do not need this elitist attitude!!!

<DIV></DIV>>>Thanks

<DIV></DIV>>>Dan Davis

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>_________________________________________________________________

<DIV></DIV>>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from

<DIV></DIV>>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

<DIV></DIV>>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>

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Peter & Laural

2004-03-16



Dan, Matt, and whomever else cares,



That was me. And no, there was nothing elitist going on. I was genuinely

interested in meeting a national champion. If I see national colors or

rainbow stripes I assume it's the real thing. One of my teammates could

tell you a funny story about meeting Jonathan Page at a little race in

Belgium, after assuming he was just wearing that jersey for laughs.



Yeah, I told the kid what it represented, and commented that he would learn

the etiquette eventually. How exactly would you recommend he find out?

I've worked damned hard in doing whatever I can to make our racing more

inclusive, shared knowledge freely, volunteered, and worked doing cycling

instruction with a special emphasis on juniors. What have you done for the

sport lately?



I respect and cherish the traditions of our sport, and feel that they apply

whether a race is under the auspices of UCI, OBRA, USAC, or a scrappy bunch

of bike messengers.



I'm just a cranky geezer on a bike, but I know enough of racing to find what

he did disrespectful. Think of how someone like Larssyn Staley would feel.

She truly knows how much one has to sacrifice, suffer, bleed, and struggle

to earn the right to wear that jersey.



If you would like to explore this more fully I would very much enjoy

sharing further vigorous discussion with you in a more private setting.



By the way, thank you for "stares and strips jersey" priceless.



Regards,



Peter Drake

108

Fred Meyer Cycling Team

wind-@hevanet.com

503-239-9279







----- Original Message -----

From: "Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn" <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:46 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?





 







-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

To: cmur-@obra.org

Subject:





Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.



Hi all

I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it.

I was at the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was warming

up next to a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened to be

warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up walks a

30

 or 40 something racer walks over looks him in the face and says "who are

you"? And the kid is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older racer

finds

 out he's "nobody that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey at a

race" he walks off and says so we can all here it "some one should teach

him

 some race edict " This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA cycling

race then yes no Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he did not

race in it. This kind of thing is what drives racers away from road

racing!

 We do not need this elitist attitude!!!

Thanks

Dan Davis



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Luciano bailey

2004-03-16



As one who has been given grief over pro wear let me say that until they ban

it I'll show up as Cippo and feel great about it after all I'm the one who

shelled out and like many others with no team affiliation you wear what you

have. Sorry





 From: "Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com>

Reply-To: toka-@ix.netcom.com

To: obra <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:28:03 -0800



For the most part I wont wear any pro team garb unless its more than 20

years old. (the team being more than 20 years old..not the clothes)<laugh>

I would wear a 7-11 Jersey or something more vintage like a Molteni or

Faema

in training but not in a race.

I would never wear the yellow J, the National kit, or any recent pro team

kit at any time. But the lip

this guy gave the new rider was just dumb.

Some things should just be implied but not stated.



-K



-----Original Message-----

From: MARTEL,MATT (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:matt_m-@hp.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:01 AM

To: obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?





Dan,



You are correct. I read something a long time ago about Greg LeMond showing

up at a small race when he was a youngster with the yellow jersey on.

Apparently he got some flack about this. He went on to tromp the field that

day! We all know the rest of the story.



We all need to encourage new racers, regardless of what they are wearing,

age, sex, etc.. Everyone deserves to be welcomed. Some young guy rode in

the

cat 4 BB race with pants on a couple weeks ago! He actually rode quite

well.

I suppose somewhere in the rule book there is something about racing with

team jerseys, unattached riders, and so forth. I have never seen it

enforced

at the amateur level but I can see how it would be "against the rules" at

bigger races.



-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

To: cmur-@obra.org

Subject:





Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.



Hi all

I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it. I was at

the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was warming up next

to

a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened to be warring a

trek

stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up walks a 30 or 40

something

racer walks over looks him in the face and says "who are you"? And the kid

is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older racer finds out he's "nobody

that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey at a race" he walks off

and says so we can all here it "some one should teach him some race edict "

This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA cycling race then yes no

Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he did not race in it. This

kind of thing is what drives racers away from road racing! We do not need

this elitist attitude!!! Thanks Dan Davis



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



_________________________________________________________________

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Luciano bailey

2004-03-16



Hooray

As a non native racer rider let me say the most attractive thing about

Oregon racing was the inclusivity, and family sense which seem to surround

the whole environment lets keep it that way.





 From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn <cmur-@obra.org>

Reply-To: cmur-@obra.org

To: obra <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:46:17 -0800











-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

To: cmur-@obra.org

Subject:





Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.



Hi all

I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it.

I was at the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was warming

up next to a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened to be

warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up walks a 30

or 40 something racer walks over looks him in the face and says "who are

you"? And the kid is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older racer finds

out he's "nobody that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey at a

race" he walks off and says so we can all here it "some one should teach

him

some race edict " This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA cycling

race then yes no Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he did not

race in it. This kind of thing is what drives racers away from road

racing!

We do not need this elitist attitude!!!

Thanks

Dan Davis



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



_________________________________________________________________

Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral.

http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx



Dan H.

2004-03-16



Did I ever tell you about the time I raced in the cyclocross nationals at

Skinners Butte in 1979? I was 19 and they did not have category separations

as we do now so I lined up with 4 time national champion Lawrence Malone and

olympian John Howard. It was my first year of mass start racing and I was

so green I didn't know why people were gesturing at me and whispering. I

picked up a

piece of a conversation that indicated that the junior world champion was in

attendance. I looked around trying to figure out where he was. The race was

not timed and went by a fixed number of laps. It went on into the sunset.

About 3/4 of the way through after having been lapped by Lawrence Malone and

John Howard, I'd had enough and quit. It was only then that Phil Sanders

came up to me and said that if I had placed, I would have been disqualified

for wearing the world champions jersey! I had no idea what the colors

meant, I just thought it looked cool.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn" <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:46 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?





 







-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

To: cmur-@obra.org

Subject:





Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.



Hi all

I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it.

I was at the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was warming

up next to a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened to be

warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up walks a

30

 or 40 something racer walks over looks him in the face and says "who are

you"? And the kid is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older racer

finds

 out he's "nobody that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey at a

race" he walks off and says so we can all here it "some one should teach

him

 some race edict " This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA cycling

race then yes no Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he did not

race in it. This kind of thing is what drives racers away from road

racing!

 We do not need this elitist attitude!!!

Thanks

Dan Davis



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Keith A. Prior

2004-03-16



For the most part I wont wear any pro team garb unless its more than 20

years old. (the team being more than 20 years old..not the clothes)<laugh>

I would wear a 7-11 Jersey or something more vintage like a Molteni or Faema

in training but not in a race.

I would never wear the yellow J, the National kit, or any recent pro team

kit at any time. But the lip

this guy gave the new rider was just dumb.

Some things should just be implied but not stated.



-K



-----Original Message-----

From: MARTEL,MATT (HP-Corvallis,ex1) [mailto:matt_m-@hp.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:01 AM

To: obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?





Dan,



You are correct. I read something a long time ago about Greg LeMond showing

up at a small race when he was a youngster with the yellow jersey on.

Apparently he got some flack about this. He went on to tromp the field that

day! We all know the rest of the story.



We all need to encourage new racers, regardless of what they are wearing,

age, sex, etc.. Everyone deserves to be welcomed. Some young guy rode in the

cat 4 BB race with pants on a couple weeks ago! He actually rode quite well.

I suppose somewhere in the rule book there is something about racing with

team jerseys, unattached riders, and so forth. I have never seen it enforced

at the amateur level but I can see how it would be "against the rules" at

bigger races.



-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

To: cmur-@obra.org

Subject:





Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.



Hi all

I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it. I was at

the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was warming up next to

a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened to be warring a trek

stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up walks a 30 or 40 something

racer walks over looks him in the face and says "who are you"? And the kid

is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older racer finds out he's "nobody

that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey at a race" he walks off

and says so we can all here it "some one should teach him some race edict "

This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA cycling race then yes no

Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he did not race in it. This

kind of thing is what drives racers away from road racing! We do not need

this elitist attitude!!! Thanks Dan Davis



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



MARTEL,MATT (HP-Corvallis,ex1)

2004-03-16



Dan,



You are correct. I read something a long time ago about Greg LeMond showing

up at a small race when he was a youngster with the yellow jersey on.

Apparently he got some flack about this. He went on to tromp the field that

day! We all know the rest of the story.



We all need to encourage new racers, regardless of what they are wearing,

age, sex, etc.. Everyone deserves to be welcomed. Some young guy rode in the

cat 4 BB race with pants on a couple weeks ago! He actually rode quite well.

I suppose somewhere in the rule book there is something about racing with

team jerseys, unattached riders, and so forth. I have never seen it enforced

at the amateur level but I can see how it would be "against the rules" at

bigger races.



-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

To: cmur-@obra.org

Subject:





Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.



Hi all

I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it. I was at

the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was warming up next to

a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened to be warring a trek

stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up walks a 30 or 40 something

racer walks over looks him in the face and says "who are you"? And the kid

is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older racer finds out he's "nobody

that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey at a race" he walks off

and says so we can all here it "some one should teach him some race edict "

This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA cycling race then yes no

Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he did not race in it. This

kind of thing is what drives racers away from road racing! We do not need

this elitist attitude!!! Thanks Dan Davis



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn

2004-03-16











-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Davis [mailto:da-@preciseflight.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM

To: cmur-@obra.org

Subject:





Hi Candi would you send this to Obra topics for me.



Hi all

I have to relay this to all of you because we all need to hear it.

I was at the first built for speed TT this last weekend, and I was warming

up next to a young racer (21) and a very nice kid. And he happened to be

warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race jersey. Up walks a 30

or 40 something racer walks over looks him in the face and says "who are

you"? And the kid is a bit taken aback by it, so when the older racer finds

out he's "nobody that should be wearing a stares and strips jersey at a

race" he walks off and says so we can all here it "some one should teach him

some race edict " This was uncalled for!!! If we were at a big USA cycling

race then yes no Stares and strips Jersey but we were not, and he did not

race in it. This kind of thing is what drives racers away from road racing!

We do not need this elitist attitude!!!

Thanks

Dan Davis