Jack Bennett
Amen.
................................. Jack Bennett bennett.jack@yahoo.com .................................
On Tuesday, November 14, 2017, 8:04:08 PM PST, Eric Aldinger via OBRA wrote:
THank you all for talking about this.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Tom Orth via OBRA wrote:
This is great. The different experiences thing is hitting us all right now. The video of of the woman walking through NYC being cat called continuously, and the more recent ME TOO phenomenon, has been eye opening and sobering for me, and I suspect most/all men. Learning that my friends and family have been impacted in such a way has been depressing and sickening. It's amazing that they are so well adjusted, smiling, and nice to ANYONE! It never occurred to me how simply walking outside, getting on the bus, going to work, to the store...was a daily act of bravery. It's just not something that 6'3" 210 pound middle aged balding dudes have to think about. If I'm being honest, I'm not sure my skin is thick enough, or if I'm brave enough, or have the social skills, or presence of mind to handle being a woman. It would be silly to to think those experiences, or lack of the same, wouldn't shape anyone's response to any and all unsolicited touching, however innocently motivated and intended, whether direct or indirect.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Dave Sanderling via OBRA wrote:
I think we're ignoring the elephant in the room: Obviously, men and women have different experiences.
Most guys (even if kind and innocent) have the privilege of blissful unawareness of the different world that women navigate. Maybe you saw the #metoo thing happen? I'm a dad of two young girls, and that really hit me. When I was in middle school, sexual predation was subtly encouraged... I'm not talking about rape, but, well, butt grabbing, staring.. stuff that seemed playful (as a young dude who didn't know any better). As a boy I never had to worry about being preyed upon. As a dad I'm on the other side of that coin.
Yes, consent is still fundamental. But let's be smart about the world we live in too. It's not about whip vs. hand directly touching ass, or Halloween costume or not. (I honestly doubt that anyone will complain about feeling violated by the dominatrix--that's my read on our Portland CX culture.) Is it a double standard? Yes, but a warranted one, based in kindness, understanding, humility... and a slow but hopeful move toward some kind of equality.
This doesn't address the question of OBRA rules, etc. It sounds like the event that ignited this kerfuffle was handled maturely off-list, so, would it be ok to just call that good?
I hope I'm not misrepresenting anyone here.. I can't speak for women (and I didn't have my wife proofread this!).
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Eric Aldinger_______________________________________________
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