RE: etiquette?

Mark Jenkins

2004-03-16



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The sustainability of road racing lies in the possibility of expanding it's

participation base and welcoming the "risk" that newcomers will both adopt

and change its culture. You probably can't police those things all that

effectively, but you can try, and you're welcome to whatever nostalgic

pleasure there is in that sort of thing. "Etiquette" probably is a good term

for it because it has to do with matters of taste and comportment and

respect for social standing.



But it seems like the 'etiquette' questions and traditions that are really

important in the community of road racing are made of the sum of good and

bad things that can happen when people are four inches off your elbow at 25

mph for 40 or 50 miles. If you're going to spend time 'educating' someone

about racing, 'transmitting' your hard-won knowledge, spend that time

educating them about the kinds of civility and comportment that keep

everyone upright and having fun.



-----Original Message-----

From: Susan Otcenas [mailto:sus-@teamestrogen.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:05 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] ettiquette?









The teams license and SELL these jerseys.   They make money off of those

sales, generally.   They obviously intend them to be worn.    



Packers fans wear Packers jerseys to games. Yankees fans wear Yankees

jerseys to games. Does this make you think the person in the jersey must be

on the team? Or that they've somehow not "earned" the right to wear the

jersey & show their team spirit & admiration for the accomplishments of that

team? Trek makes a postal service bike. Is one allowed to purchase and

ride it only if they can keep up with the Great One himself?



I can't speak to the appropriateness of wearing a pro-team jersey in a local

race. If the rules don't ban it, it seems to me you should give the kid a

break. And if you disagree, perhaps tactfully and quietly (so as not to

embarrass the person into never showing up again for fear of breaking some

other unspoken "rule") take that person aside and mentor them a little. As

someone else recently posted, the future of the sport is in the youngsters.

Let's not scare them off.



Just my 2 cents,



Susan









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<DIV><SPAN class=093143121-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The

sustainability of road racing lies in the possibility of

expanding it's participation base and welcoming the "risk" that newcomers

will both adopt and change its culture. You probably can't police those

things all that effectively, but you can try, and you're welcome to

whatever nostalgic pleasure there is in that sort of thing. "Etiquette" probably

is a good term for it because it has to do with matters of taste and comportment

and respect for social standing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=093143121-16032004></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN

class=093143121-16032004>But it seems like the 'etiquette' questions and

traditions that are really important in the community of road

racing are made of the sum of good and bad things that can happen when

people are four inches off your elbow at 25 mph for 40 or 50 miles.  If

you're going to spend time 'educating' someone about racing, 'transmitting' your

hard-won knowledge, spend that time educating them about the kinds of

civility and comportment that keep everyone upright and having fun.

</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=093143121-16032004></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><BR><FONT

size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Susan Otcenas

[mailto:sus-@teamestrogen.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:05

PM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [OBRA Chat]

ettiquette?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004></SPAN><SPAN

class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The

teams license and SELL these jerseys.   They make money off of those

sales, generally.   They obviously intend them to be

worn.    </FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2>Packers fans wear Packers jerseys to games.  Yankees

fans wear Yankees jerseys to games.  Does this make you think the person

in the jersey must be on the team?  Or that they've somehow not "earned"

the right to wear the jersey & show their team spirit & admiration for

the accomplishments of that team?  Trek makes a postal service

bike.  Is one allowed to purchase and ride it only if they can keep up

with the Great One himself?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I

can't speak to the appropriateness of wearing a pro-team jersey in a local

race.  If the rules don't ban it, it seems to me you should give the kid

a break.  And if you disagree, perhaps tactfully and quietly (so as not

to embarrass the person into never showing up again for fear of breaking some

other unspoken "rule") take that person aside and mentor them a

little.  As someone else recently posted, the future of the sport is

in the youngsters.   Let's not scare them

off.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Just

my 2 cents,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2>Susan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=383392420-16032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>



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Pat Sagers

2004-03-16



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I began riding (again) about 4 years ago. I had a 17 year break and pretty

much forgot a lot of stuff. I've had the misfortune of doing most

everything wrong once and several times twice. I've been yelled at, ignored

and glared at many times. Occasionally I've been spoken to like an adult

and in a respectful tone. I have to say that I have always been much more

receptive to helpful instruction without an attitude attached. I can

remember each instance and every person's name who instructed me out of

kindness to this day.



This sport of ours has so many unspoken do's and don'ts that it's really

unfair to judge or chastise new participants for doing something like

dressing wrong. Especially when it was simply done in ignorance. Maybe we

can mentor the new faces in the crowd without coming off like this gentleman

did. Totally uncalled for and very upsetting to be treated or spoken to in

an abusive manner like that.



Pat Sagers





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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I began riding (again) about 4 years ago.  I had a 17 year break and pretty much forgot a lot of stuff.  I've had the misfortune of doing most everything wrong once and several times twice.  I've been yelled at, ignored and glared at many times.  Occasionally I've been spoken to like an adult and in a respectful tone.  I have to say that I have always been much more receptive to helpful instruction without an attitude attached.  I can remember each instance and every person's name who instructed me out of kindness to this day. </FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>This sport of ours has so many unspoken do's and don'ts that it's really unfair to judge or chastise new participants for doing something like dressing wrong.  Especially when it was simply done in ignorance.  Maybe we can mentor the new faces in the crowd without coming off like this gentleman did.  Totally uncalled for and very upsetting to be treated or spoken to in an abusive manner like that.</FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>Pat Sagers</FONT>

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