Etiquette

mike.m-@obra.org

2004-03-16



Doug Evans [mailto:Dou-@sprbrk.com] wrote:



"I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this.

I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in a

race for a team that you are not representing."



I would hate to disappoint. The applicable rule is:

"9.2 - CLOTHING

9.2.1 All riders must wear jerseys that cover the shoulders. Shorts must

reach mid-thigh. No article of clothing may be worn that serves solely an

aerodynamic purpose.

9.2.2- No rider may wear the jersey of a club or team that the rider is not

eligible to represent.

In mass start events Category 1 and 2 riders from the same club/team must

wear uniforms that are obviously similar unless the rules for the specific

event require otherwise."



Although a literal interpretation of this would make it illegal for you to

wear your US Postal jersey to a race, in practice this is ignored. (In

fact, the wearing of Speedos or even less demonstrates that the whole rule

is not very vigorously applied.) The actual reason for the rule is not to

prevent the wearing of pro replica clothing but to prevent someone from

masquerading as a member of another team and confusing team racing dynamics.

Perhaps the rule could be worded a bit better to accomplish this.



In the past, while riding in races organized and officiated by a somewhat

more oppressive organization, I have seen officials have riders turn their

jerseys inside out or cover sponsors names and logos with duct tape. I

would like to think that people at OBRA events are a bit less petty than

that. On the other hand, there is a reason why there are the etiquettes and

customs in the sport even if they are not coded in the rules. National

championship and world championship jerseys have value because of what the

represent. The value of this is diminished if they are not represented

accurately. However, OBRA does not award these jerseys and we have no rules

that specify when they can be worn.



Pro clothing is another issue. It is clear that this is similar to wearing

a Red Sox hat while playing softball. There is no harm in that. Whenever I

see someone wearing pro replica clothing I am reminded of something Glen

Sanders told me. Glen rode for top teams which would sell their excess and

outdated clothing. He told me that when he saw someone riding in clothing

for a team he had been on he was always struck with how ironic that was.

After all, as he said "I am 5'5" tall, have acne and stutter when I talk to

women and I'm their role model?"



Knowing Peter well it is difficult to imagine that he was rude, elitist or

any of those other bad things. I suspect that he may be owning up for the

actions of some other old guy who was rude and elitist, as many can be. It

certainly is not difficult to imagine that the hapless young rider might

have been approached by more than one person. The very structure of road

and track racing does tend towards elitism. This is one of the

disadvantages compared to mountain bike racing and cyclocross. Here in

Oregon I think that everyone has done an excellent job of trying to buck

this tendency and the participation that we have shows the value of that.

It is, however, a subject that requires constant vigilance so we need to

continue to be aware that we are not in a position to turn anyone away.



Mike Murray



dansilv-@comcast.net

2004-03-16



These hooligans need to be stopped early!   Things like wearing the wrong jersey, things like that. How many people do you see riding USPS Treks? Do they deserve them? How many cat 4's really earned the right to have Dura Ace? And wearing camel backs in road races. What's with THAT? Are you going to ride off into the ditch and into the woods at some point to do some single track? And hairy legged riders. READ THIS: either put on some wool sox and hiking boots and hike the PCT, or get a razor, shave your legs, and be a bike racer!



I really hope that by now you all know that I'm completely full of crap. What I'm concerned with is not whether or not somone has the proper "look". What I AM concerned with is that people who race, race safely! I'd rather be in a peloton full of guys in soccer sox, running shorts, and wearing replicas of the Maillot Jaune that know how to ride than with a bunch of guys who look good, but can't finish a race without putting their pedal into my front spoke.



Besides, I think we need to re-read part of Dan Davis' e-mail: "he happened to be warring a trek stares and strips jersey over his race jersey." From what I gathered, he wasn't racing in this jersey, just warming up in it. What is the problem with that? Even if he was in the Pro/1/2 field of the Cascade Classic, he can warm up in whatever the hell he wants.   



I'm glad I can still race x/c skis in my Norwegian Team hat without having someone give me a load of crap about not knowing "race edict"!

 and you have to wear white socks, or was that rule abolished?



Toe clips and tennis shoes rule.







Doug Evans wrote:

 

I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this.



I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in

a race for a team that you are not representing.







-----Original Message-----

From: Darren Smith [mailto:drds-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing.

If

I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team



kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race?   Or do I have

a

"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff

member?







Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP

Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician



14125 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, OR 97006

(503)641-3333 office

(503)351-9653 cell



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Tony Hobkirk

2004-03-16



So what makes a rider "eligible to represent" a team or club?



Example: I subscribe to Charmichael Training Systems. CTS has said

that any of their subscribers are welcome to wear a CTS kit in races,

even if they aren't sponsored by CTS.



Is that enough to constitute eligibility? Does a rider need to have

some kind of documentation to make it official?





Woodcock, Thomas C wrote:

 

From the OBRA rules:



9.2.2- No rider may wear the jersey of a club or team that the rider is

not eligible to represent.

In mass start events Category 1 and 2 riders from the same club/team

must wear uniforms that are obviously similar unless the rules for the

specific event require otherwise.



-----Original Message-----

From: Doug Evans [mailto:Dou-@sprbrk.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:29 PM

To: drds-@hotmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this.



I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in

a race for a team that you are not representing.







-----Original Message-----

From: Darren Smith [mailto:drds-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing.

If

I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team



kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race?   Or do I have

a

"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff

member?







Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP

Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician



14125 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, OR 97006

(503)641-3333 office

(503)351-9653 cell



_________________________________________________________________

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Damian

2004-03-16



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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii



Is this the new "masters category," discussion that is destined to fill our mail boxes w/50 new messages a day?



First off, I think that this was a good topic to bring up, but for people to bash Peter (when only a few actually witnessed the encounter), or to defend yourself by asking "what have you done for the sport lately," is simply lame (for lack of a better word). The first email kept the issue anonymous, which I thought was very tasteful, whether or not he knew the name of Peter.



There is a rule for not wearing a jersey for a team that you are not a member of. If we go by the uscf rules on the matter it's in section 1L (on-line at least). There you can find out all about wearing jerseys in COMPETITION, which this person did not do.



I would expect an experienced racer to point this out to someone who decides to race in a national, world or pro team jersey, but I'm pretty sure we can wear whatever we want when warming up and it shouldn't offend anyone, not even a national champion.





I guess if this email bashed anyone then I'm a hypocrite, but it would be nice if email discussions can remain discussions, not a forum to point fingers.



damian





Doug Evans <Dou-@sprbrk.com> wrote:

I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this.



I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in a race for a team that you are not representing.







-----Original Message-----

From: Darren Smith [mailto:drds-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing. If

I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team

kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race? Or do I have a

"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff member?







Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP

Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician



14125 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, OR 97006

(503)641-3333 office

(503)351-9653 cell



_________________________________________________________________

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Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii



<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>Is this the new "masters category," discussion that is destined to fill our mail boxes w/50 new messages a day?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>First off, I think that this was a good topic to bring up, but for people to bash Peter (when only a few actually witnessed the encounter), or to defend yourself by asking "what have you done for the sport lately," is simply lame (for lack of a better word).  The first email kept the issue anonymous, which I thought was very tasteful, whether or not he knew the name of Peter.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>There is a rule for not wearing a jersey for a team that you are not a member of.  If we go by the uscf rules on the matter it's in section 1L (on-line at least).  There you can find out all about wearing jerseys in <STRONG>COMPETITION</STRONG>,<STRONG> </STRONG>which this person did not do.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I would expect an experienced racer to point this out to someone who decides to race in a national, world or pro team jersey, but I'm pretty sure we can wear whatever we want when warming up and it shouldn't offend anyone, not even a national champion.<BR></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I guess if this email bashed anyone then I'm a hypocrite, but it would be nice if email discussions can remain discussions, not a forum to point fingers.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>damian</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV><BR><B><I>Doug Evans <Dou-@sprbrk.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this. <BR><BR>I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in a race for a team that you are not representing.<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Darren Smith [mailto:drds-@hotmail.com]<BR>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM<BR>To: ob-@topica.com<BR>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette<BR><BR><BR>I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing. If <BR>I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team <BR>kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race? Or do I have a <BR>"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff member?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP<BR>Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician<BR><BR>14125 SW Walker Road<BR>Beaverton, OR 97006<BR>(503)641-3333 office<BR>(503)351-9653

<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailtag_us/*http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_blank"><b>Yahoo! Mail</a></b> - More reliable, more storage, less spam

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What about Shorts or Bibs ?

I may buy a Pro Team pair to make me ride faster :-)

Or maybe Socks , I could pedal faster with Postal Socks :-)



I guess this is why Cyclo Cross makes it easier when you go for Speedo

points , as they dont make Pro Team Speedo's











Woodcock, Thomas C wrote:



  From the OBRA rules:



9.2.2- No rider may wear the jersey of a club or team that the rider is

not eligible to represent.

In mass start events Category 1 and 2 riders from the same club/team

must wear uniforms that are obviously similar unless the rules for the

specific event require otherwise.



-----Original Message-----

From: Doug Evans [mailto:Dou-@sprbrk.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:29 PM

To: drds-@hotmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this.



I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in

a race for a team that you are not representing.







-----Original Message-----

From: Darren Smith [mailto:drds-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing.

If

I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team



kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race?   Or do I have

a

"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff

member?







Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP

Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician



14125 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, OR 97006

(503)641-3333 office

(503)351-9653 cell



_________________________________________________________________

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Woodcock, Thomas C

2004-03-16



From the OBRA rules:



9.2.2- No rider may wear the jersey of a club or team that the rider is

not eligible to represent.

In mass start events Category 1 and 2 riders from the same club/team

must wear uniforms that are obviously similar unless the rules for the

specific event require otherwise.



-----Original Message-----

From: Doug Evans [mailto:Dou-@sprbrk.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:29 PM

To: drds-@hotmail.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this.



I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in

a race for a team that you are not representing.







-----Original Message-----

From: Darren Smith [mailto:drds-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing.

If

I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team



kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race?   Or do I have

a

"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff

member?







Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP

Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician



14125 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, OR 97006

(503)641-3333 office

(503)351-9653 cell



_________________________________________________________________

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Brad Cockman, DC

2004-03-16



and you have to wear white socks, or was that rule abolished?



Toe clips and tennis shoes rule.







Doug Evans wrote:

 

I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this.



I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in

a race for a team that you are not representing.







-----Original Message-----

From: Darren Smith [mailto:drds-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing.

If

I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team



kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race?   Or do I have

a

"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff

member?







Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP

Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician



14125 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, OR 97006

(503)641-3333 office

(503)351-9653 cell



_________________________________________________________________

Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar - FREE!

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Doug Evans

2004-03-16



I keep expecting Mike Murray's response to this.



I believe that there is actually a rule that you cannot wear a jersey in a race for a team that you are not representing.







-----Original Message-----

From: Darren Smith [mailto:drds-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Etiquette





I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing. If

I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team

kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race?   Or do I have a

"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff member?







Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP

Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician



14125 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, OR 97006

(503)641-3333 office

(503)351-9653 cell



_________________________________________________________________

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Darren Smith

2004-03-16



I have a question with regards to all this since I am novice at racing. If

I m working with/for a professional squad, and they have given me a team

kit, does this mean I should not wear that kit in a race?   Or do I have a

"right" to wear it even though I am not a rider, merely a team staff member?







Darren A. Smith, DC, CCSP

Certified Chiropractic Sports Physician



14125 SW Walker Road

Beaverton, OR 97006

(503)641-3333 office

(503)351-9653 cell



_________________________________________________________________

Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar ? FREE!

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