OBRA: OBRA Chat: more centerline discussion

more centerline discussion

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Matt Plummer

2004-03-30

I told myself that I wouldn't write about any of the centerline discussion, but frustration has changed that. Oddly enough I was not aware of any of the centerline issues. You may ask why, but the simple answer is because I was riding in the front. The best way to avoid these problems is to keep them behind you. Just ride faster. So you can name names and point fingers, but maybe you should just look in the mirror for the answer to this problem.

-Matt

Nick Glazener

2004-03-30

I kind-a wanted to avoid the blocking issue. I wasn't affected by it

because I was having an off day anyway. I also prefer to keep any

specific names, numbers and teams out of the discussion of an issue. I

do feel compelled to respond to some of the statements. I like reading

the responses on these issues because I can learn a lot. That is why I

am in Cat 4/5. Anything I write is not intended to be taken personal

just topics for discussion.

ibi-@comcast.net wrote:

Do you ride with a team? If so, where were your teammates that day? If

not, then you should be aware from a tactical standpoint that you need

to be at the front of the field when that stretch of road comes up.

It's not like you did not know it was coming. By the time the break took

off, we had already been around the course twice. Were you expecting

something different? If I were you (apparently riding alone or with no

strategy), I would have begun to set myself up to be on the front when

we made the final right turn onto the final straight towards the finish

line. This way, you have ample time (and a wider road) to make your way

to the front.

I do ride with a recreationally oriented team. I was aware of the best

way to position myself. I take full responsibility for my position.

Also, did you get involved when we were trying to echelon? If you were,

then you knew how to set yourself up. If not, then you need to learn if

you are going to move up through the field on a windy course.

As for Team O slowing things down, I was the Team O rider in the break

and my teammates did the correct thing by sitting up. It is not their

job to chase me down. If that means that the other rider and myself

jumped at an opportunity to make a successful break, you are correct. It

is then up to the other riders in the field to organize themselves into

their own "team" and chase the break down when the road opens up. I know

for a fact that on different portions of the road at different times,

there was ample space for passing (whether it was a train or as another

pace line is irrelevant). It is not Team O's job to chase their man

down.

I absolutely agree it would not be any teams responsibility to chase

down a break with one of their own. My team was very active in chasing

down the break (not me though).

If you have ever watched pro road racing, you will note that no teams

will ever chase down their riders. In fact, they will purposefully

control the peloton by moving to the front of the field and maintaining

a tempo while their man gets away.

THEY DO NOT CONTROL THE PELETON BY SITTING UP AND BLOCKING THE FRONT.

They do sit in close to the front in order to respond to breaking chase

group. My opinion is (usually wrong), "that if a team is lined up

across the road at the very front of the peleton in order to impede

anyone's progress towards chasing a break away then they are

intentionally blocking.

For everyone that was screaming that we were going to slow at different

points, how come no one came forward to lead the field? It seemed like

it was all Team O leading the field. Did anyone else want to sit in the

wind. (I should note that there were quite a few riders who worked well

with us- Cheers to you guys for helping along and really racing.)I was

also the rider who sat on the front for the final 3 miles while we

"slowly" came around to the final straight. As it was, I had a teammate

behind me that also did not want to take the wind. I can understand I

was protecting him (he got 6th), but for everyone else screaming, I

wanted off the front as badly as you wanted to pick up the pace. My

question is: Why did no one come forward? 2 other riders came around on

my right and I took some protection from that, but eventually I was on

the front again.

I agree with you on this point. If someone wants to pick up the pace

then they should spend their energy doing so by organizing other riders

not by yelling at other people to do it.

In the end, all I am saying is that proper tactical strategy means

racing with your head as much as your legs and lungs. Each time you go

around the course, you should be learning something new. Where does the

wind come from? Where are the pot holes? Where is the best place to set

up for the next corner? And where is the best place to initiate a break

to split up the field.

All in all, Team O is doing a good job trying to bring team tactics into

the Cat 4/5 race.

Sorry if I came across as being overlyharsh. (Not my intention.) This is

just my 2 cents.

It does come across like you were personally offended by earlier

discussion. I am just interested in the presentation of different

opinions on the topics.

Peter Murphy

2004-03-30

That is the weakest arguement for violating rules. A big team was blocking

it up. That, my friend, is bike racing. A big team was blocking it up with

three kilometers to go. Would that reasoning allow me to blatantly push

people into the ditch, or over the centerline?... I think not.

I had bust my ass to gap back to a group that started out as a manageble 3

person break, that suddenly, because of centerline violations, which I

expected the officials to quell, became a 15 man break, with all of the big

teams represented in the pack. I made it, but I was dying. That is also

bike racing.

Do not blame Team O for not working. They raced tactically well and had the

numbers, if a break went away that didn't have a Team O guy in it, they

chased it down. If the break had one of theirs in it, they sat in and let

the rest of us do the work. At the end they gathered their team and blocked

up the front. Perfect team tactics. Bravo. If my team had 15 guys there, I

would have instructed them to do the same thing.

Pete Murphy

Team Cyclisme B.I.K.E/Hincapie

"...sometimes the smallest, softest voice, carries the grand biggest

solution.." NOFX

From: Cowan-@aol.com

Reply-To: Cowan-@aol.com

To: albertanu-@yahoo.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:59:46 EST

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I was in the 4/5 race and yes some people were clearly advancing on the

left

side of the road, but many were advancing in the middle. It sounds like

you

are saying the middle is off limits too, which it clearly isn't on a road

that

narrow. Without riding close to the middle there is now way to get around

riders going 17 mph. Without riding in the middle there is only room for

two

abreast which makes it very easy for a team with 10 riders to slow it down

and let

a break go which they tried to do. The lead car was in front not letting

any

traffic down the road.

Come on Team O, do some work.

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ibi-@comcast.net

2004-03-29

Do you ride with a team? If so, where were your teammates that day? If not, then you should be aware from a tactical standpoint that you need to be at the front of the field when that stretch of road comes up.

It's not like you did not know it was coming. By the time the break took off, we had already been around the course twice. Were you expecting something different? If I were you (apparently riding alone or with no strategy), I would have begun to set myself up to be on the front when we made the final right turn onto the final straight towards the finish line. This way, you have ample time (and a wider road) to make your way to the front.

Also, did you get involved when we were trying to echelon? If you were, then you knew how to set yourself up. If not, then you need to learn if you are going to move up through the field on a windy course.

As for Team O slowing things down, I was the Team O rider in the break and my teammates did the correct thing by sitting up. It is not their job to chase me down. If that means that the other rider and myself jumped at an opportunity to make a successful break, you are correct. It is then up to the other riders in the field to organize themselves into their own "team" and chase the break down when the road opens up. I know for a fact that on different portions of the road at different times, there was ample space for passing (whether it was a train or as another pace line is irrelevant). It is not Team O's job to chase their man down.

If you have ever watched pro road racing, you will note that no teams will ever chase down their riders. In fact, they will purposefully control the peloton by moving to the front of the field and maintaining a tempo while their man gets away.

For everyone that was screaming that we were going to slow at different points, how come no one came forward to lead the field? It seemed like it was all Team O leading the field. Did anyone else want to sit in the wind. (I should note that there were quite a few riders who worked well with us- Cheers to you guys for helping along and really racing.)I was also the rider who sat on the front for the final 3 miles while we "slowly" came around to the final straight. As it was, I had a teammate behind me that also did not want to take the wind. I can understand I was protecting him (he got 6th), but for everyone else screaming, I wanted off the front as badly as you wanted to pick up the pace. My question is: Why did no one come forward? 2 other riders came around on my right and I took some protection from that, but eventually I was on the front again.

In the end, all I am saying is that proper tactical strategy means racing with your head as much as your legs and lungs. Each time you go around the course, you should be learning something new. Where does the wind come from? Where are the pot holes? Where is the best place to set up for the next corner? And where is the best place to initiate a break to split up the field.

Sorry if I came across as being overlyharsh. (Not my intention.) This is just my 2 cents.

David Hart

2004-03-29

Maybe on the next race that doesn't have a center line, the officials can

put a car there in the opposite direction of the race with an official in it

and anyone that crosses into it's path is DQ'd.

David Hart

North River Racing

Southwest Washington's Cycling team!

http://www.northriverracing.org

From: Ken Finch <kj_f-@yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kj_f-@yahoo.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:59:16 -0800 (PST)

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"But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane

road with no line. What specific reference prevents

a rider from riding up next to you in the middle. I

believe that this road was a special case that we

see infrequently."

First, to repeat:

"+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the

start of the race. Everyone was told that the road

didn?t have a yellow line and that they were still

expected stay off the left lane or they were

breaking the rules."

There was certainly a consensus on the location of

the centerline, as evidenced by the majority of the

peloton's lack of difficulty complying with the

centerline rule even on the section with out a

painted line. Approximately one dozen riders chose

the "see no evil, hear no evil" approach and

advanced past the rest of us that were respecting

the "invisible" line.

If any of those riders who advanced past twenty or

so other riders in the course of twenty seconds are

on this list: you risked people's lives in order to

advance in an amateur bike race, hello?

We all know that it is quite difficult to advance

that number of spaces in a short period of time when

the peoloton is bunched up and not drafting in a

single or double line.

Second,

I am disappointed that I was the only member of the

peoloton willing to look like a complete idiot

screaming bloody murder at the aforementioned

cheaters. It was my understanding that obra-land

had agreed that we would not tolerate this sort of

behavior.

Was I wrong, because it sure felt like that's what

you were saying by remaining silent?

"Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com>

wrote:

But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane

road with no line. What specific reference prevents

a rider from riding up next to you in the middle. I

believe that this road was a special case that we

see infrequently.

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger

[mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

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Enterprises===========================================================

Here is one perspective and some details for those

that weren?t in the race:

+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the

start of the race. Everyone was told that the road

didn?t have a yellow line and that they were still

expected stay off the left lane or they were

breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in question, a

break occurred before the turn onto the narrow road

without a centerline. It was a small break with 2-3

riders and as it happened, the team mates of one of

the riders in the break were at the front of the

main peleton going into the turn. As is expected,

the team mates on the front of the peleton did not

try to catch up to the break. They eased off and

let the break go. That?s called bike racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn?t like this tactic and

decided to ride over the centerline, pass the

peleton and catch up with the break. There was no

question that riders were making a conscious

decision to cheat. Several riders got bunched up in

the left lane and ended up taking over the whole

road at one point. Other riders in the peleton were

calling out numbers of the offending riders and I?m

sure some riders decided that if the rules weren?t

going to be enforced, they were going to take

advantage of the situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke the rules

and caught up with the break. The rest of the

peleton decided catch up rather than let the

offending riders profit from the situation. In

subsequent laps, the peleton was mostly strung out

on that stretch of road so there weren?t more

issues.

What occurred was dangerous and very unsporting. I

don?t think the race promoters can be held

responsible ? they do everything they can to put the

event on. The least the riders can do is play by

the rules and ride a fair and safe race. Follow the

rules or don?t race?go for a ride with your friends

and let the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

Dave

---------------------------------

From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22 PM

To: mad-@huttig.com

Cc: dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in

question has been a part of many, if not most piece

of cake races since the first one I rode... I think

in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there

this weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out

there, but in the past, the lead car usually went

far enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By

the way, it's the same thing on a forest service

road, or any other non-center line road for that

matter. So do you go neutral in that kind of

situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable

(and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of

racing situation is to make sure you're at or off

the front when you enter that road. If you were

caught back in the pack when you left the good road

, you're going to have a long day, 'cause the

leaders can and should be putting some distance on

you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets

some serious attention then that is the last time I

will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center

line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her

position. This would be the fair thing to do. The

first and second corner on that stretch of rode are

blind and all it would take is for a disgruntled

driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at

the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner

and many riders are injured seriously or fatally. I

do not think we need this type of incident for OBRA.

Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

=== message truncated ===

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Cowan-@aol.com

2004-03-29

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I was in the 4/5 race and yes some people were clearly advancing on the left

side of the road, but many were advancing in the middle. It sounds like you

are saying the middle is off limits too, which it clearly isn't on a road that

narrow. Without riding close to the middle there is now way to get around

riders going 17 mph. Without riding in the middle there is only room for two

abreast which makes it very easy for a team with 10 riders to slow it down and let

a break go which they tried to do. The lead car was in front not letting any

traffic down the road.

Come on Team O, do some work.

--part1_148.25b28c02.2d9a2e92_boundary

Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<HTML><HTML>I was in the 4/5 race and yes some people were clearly advancing on the left side of the road, but many were advancing in the middle. It sounds like you are saying the middle is off limits too, which it clearly isn't on a road that narrow. Without riding close to the middle there is now way to get around riders going 17 mph. Without riding in the middle there is only room for two abreast which makes it very easy for a team with 10 riders to slow it down and let a break go which they tried to do. The lead car was in front not letting any traffic down the road. 

 

Come on Team O, do some work.</HTML>

--part1_148.25b28c02.2d9a2e92_boundary--

Nick Glazener

2004-03-29

Matthew W wrote:

"But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line.

What specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in

the middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see

infrequently."

First, to repeat:

"+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the race.

Everyone was told that the road didn?t have a yellow line and that they

were still expected stay off the left lane or they were breaking the

rules."

There was certainly a consensus on the location of the centerline, as

evidenced by the majority of the peloton's lack of difficulty complying

with the centerline rule even on the section with out a painted line.

Approximately one dozen riders chose the "see no evil, hear no evil"

approach and advanced past the rest of us that were respecting the

"invisible" line.

If any of those riders who advanced past twenty or so other riders in

the course of twenty seconds are on this list: you risked people's lives

in order to advance in an amateur bike race, hello?

We all know that it is quite difficult to advance that number of spaces

in a short period of time when the peoloton is bunched up and not

drafting in a single or double line.

Second,

I am disappointed that I was the only member of the peoloton willing to

look like a complete idiot screaming bloody murder at the aforementioned

cheaters. It was my understanding that obra-land had agreed that we

would not tolerate this sort of behavior.

Was I wrong, because it sure felt like that's what you were saying by

remaining silent?

I didn't think it was wrong. I said so in my original post. What I

thought was wrong was one of our team members argueing back with you.

Another one of our team members tried to get to get him to mellow out.

It is not in my nature to be confrontational until I am pushed past a

certain point. It wasn't that big a deal for me because I was having an

off day anyway. I was just interested in reading some different

opinions about the issue.

Ken Finch

2004-03-29

--- Matthew W <albertanu-@yahoo.com> wrote:

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Adams, Mike

2004-03-29

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Rules are rules. It was explained at the beginning of the race, the left side is for oncoming traffic. I guess some think that rules do not apply to them.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:09 PM

To: 'david.l.w-@intel.com'; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

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handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

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===========================================================

But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line. What specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in the middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see infrequently.

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/

Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

Here is one perspective and some details for those that weren't in the race:

+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told that the road didn't have a yellow line and that they were still expected stay off the left lane or they were breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in question, a break occurred before the turn onto the narrow road without a centerline. It was a small break with 2-3 riders and as it happened, the team mates of one of the riders in the break were at the front of the main peleton going into the turn. As is expected, the team mates on the front of the peleton did not try to catch up to the break. They eased off and let the break go. That's called bike racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn't like this tactic and decided to ride over the centerline, pass the peleton and catch up with the break. There was no question that riders were making a conscious decision to cheat. Several riders got bunched up in the left lane and ended up taking over the whole road at one point. Other riders in the peleton were calling out numbers of the offending riders and I'm sure some riders decided that if the rules weren't going to be enforced, they were going to take advantage of the situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke the rules and caught up with the break. The rest of the peleton decided catch up rather than let the offending riders profit from the situation. In subsequent laps, the peleton was mostly strung out on that stretch of road so there weren't more issues.

What occurred was dangerous and very unsporting. I don't think the race promoters can be held responsible - they do everything they can to put the event on. The least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride a fair and safe race. Follow the rules or don't race...go for a ride with your friends and let the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

Dave

_____

From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22 PM

To: mad-@huttig.com

Cc: dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode... I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the lead car usually went far enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on a forest service road, or any other non-center line road for that matter. So do you go neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable (and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to make sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you were caught back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going to have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and should be putting some distance on you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of incident for OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173

503 799 7823

jpow-@spiritone.com

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

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desk toy!

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Crazy Aaron Enterprises

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<DIV>Rules

are rules. It was explained at the beginning of the race, the left side is for

oncoming traffic. I guess some think that rules do not apply to

them.</DIV>

<DIV>Mike

Adams</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Schreck, George

[mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004

2:09 PM To: 'david.l.w-@intel.com';

ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline

discussion </DIV><PRE>===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

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</PRE>

<DIV>But

where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line. What

specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in the

middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see

infrequently.</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

 <DIV></DIV>

 <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Dave

 Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com] Sent: Monday,

 March 29, 2004 1:48 PM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: RE:

 [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion </DIV><PRE>===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

<A href="http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/">http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/</A>

Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

</PRE>

 <DIV class=Section1>

 Here is one

 perspective and some details for those that weren’t in the

 race:

 

 + All of the riders

 were explained the rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told

 that the road didn’t have a yellow line and that they were still expected

 stay off the left lane or they were breaking the rules.

 + In the CAT 4/5

 race, on the lap in question, a break occurred before the turn onto the

 narrow road without a centerline. It was a small break with 2-3 riders

 and as it happened, the team mates of one of the riders in the break were at

 the front of the main peleton going into the turn. As is expected, the

 team mates on the front of the peleton did not try to catch up to the break.

 They eased off and let the break go. That’s called bike

 racing.

 + Around 10-15

 riders didn’t like this tactic and decided to ride over the centerline, pass

 the peleton and catch up with the break. There was no question that

 riders were making a conscious decision to cheat. Several riders got

 bunched up in the left lane and ended up taking over the whole road at one

 point. Other riders in the peleton were calling out numbers of the

 offending riders and I’m sure some riders decided that if the rules weren’t

 going to be enforced, they were going to take advantage of the situation as

 well.

 + In the end, after

 about 15 riders broke the rules and caught up with the break. The rest

 of the peleton decided catch up rather than let the offending riders profit

 from the situation. In subsequent laps, the peleton was mostly strung

 out on that stretch of road so there weren’t more issues.

 

 What occurred was

 dangerous and very unsporting. I don’t think the race promoters can be

 held responsible – they do everything they can to put the event on.

 The least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride a fair and

 safe race. Follow the rules or don’t race…go for a ride with your

 friends and let the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

 

 Dave

 

 <DIV>

 <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>

 <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>

 </DIV>

 From:

 Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22

 PM To:

 mad-@huttig.com Cc:

 dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more

 centerline discussion</DIV>

 

 Come on

 folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a part of

 many, if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode... I think

 in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this weekend, I don't

 know what y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the lead car usually

 went far enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the

 same thing on a forest service road, or any other non-center line road for

 that matter. So do you go neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you

 could, but the reasonable (and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of

 racing situation is to make sure you're at or off the front when you enter

 that road. If you were caught back in the pack when you left the good road ,

 you're going to have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and should be

 putting some distance on you. 

 

 As they

 say. That's road racing. 

 

 Jerry

 

 

 On Mar

 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote: 

 

 I know

 I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention then

 that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center

 line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would be the

 fair thing to do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode are

 blind and all it would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on

 that side of the rode at the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner

 and many riders are injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need

 this type of incident for OBRA. Just my opinion. 

 Mike

 Adams 

 

 -----Original Message----- 

 From:

 Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com] 

 Sent:

 Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM 

 To:

 ob-@topica.com 

 Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

 

 

 The POC

 presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

 

 understood that the centerline rule still applied

 even on the narrow 

 Dannon

 Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

 

 clear

 center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

 

 the

 pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

 

 respected the rule, then I was going to loose

 position in the pack to 

 those

 that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

 

 place

 was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

 

 were

 attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

 

 pace

 workload. 

 

 I broke

 the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

 

 do me

 any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

 

 passed

 me. 

 

 There

 was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

 

 pointing out the offending riders by number. It was

 annoying but 

 appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially

 a very dangerous 

 situation if there had been a car up. There was also

 some frustration 

 with a

 team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

 

 front

 (another topic). 

 

 It

 would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

 

 enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an

 official's car to come 

 along

 the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

 

 to have

 the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

 

 narrow

 roads. 

 

 The

 same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

 

 However, those roads tend to be in the hills which

 thin the pack out. 

 

 I don't

 think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

 

 response to be, "the rule was in effect and

 officials should have 

 enforced it." The application in reality may not be

 so easy. 

 

 In the

 end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

 

 from a

 center line violation. 

 

 Jerald

 M Powell, AICP 

 Community

 Planning 

 1926 SW

 Madison Street 

 Portland, OR 97205 

 

 503 222

 7173 

 503 799

 7823 

 

 jpow-@spiritone.com </DIV><PRE>===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

<A href="http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/">http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/</A>

Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

</PRE><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>===========================================================

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===========================================================

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To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Matthew W

2004-03-29

--0-215990573-1080600005=:56264

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

"But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line. What specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in the middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see infrequently."

First, to repeat:

"+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told that the road didn?t have a yellow line and that they were still expected stay off the left lane or they were breaking the rules."

There was certainly a consensus on the location of the centerline, as evidenced by the majority of the peloton's lack of difficulty complying with the centerline rule even on the section with out a painted line. Approximately one dozen riders chose the "see no evil, hear no evil" approach and advanced past the rest of us that were respecting the "invisible" line.

If any of those riders who advanced past twenty or so other riders in the course of twenty seconds are on this list: you risked people's lives in order to advance in an amateur bike race, hello?

We all know that it is quite difficult to advance that number of spaces in a short period of time when the peoloton is bunched up and not drafting in a single or double line.

Second,

I am disappointed that I was the only member of the peoloton willing to look like a complete idiot screaming bloody murder at the aforementioned cheaters. It was my understanding that obra-land had agreed that we would not tolerate this sort of behavior.

Was I wrong, because it sure felt like that's what you were saying by remaining silent?

"Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com> wrote:

But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line. What specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in the middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see infrequently.

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

===========================================================**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing desk toy!http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/Crazy Aaron Enterprises===========================================================

Here is one perspective and some details for those that weren?t in the race:

+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told that the road didn?t have a yellow line and that they were still expected stay off the left lane or they were breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in question, a break occurred before the turn onto the narrow road without a centerline. It was a small break with 2-3 riders and as it happened, the team mates of one of the riders in the break were at the front of the main peleton going into the turn. As is expected, the team mates on the front of the peleton did not try to catch up to the break. They eased off and let the break go. That?s called bike racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn?t like this tactic and decided to ride over the centerline, pass the peleton and catch up with the break. There was no question that riders were making a conscious decision to cheat. Several riders got bunched up in the left lane and ended up taking over the whole road at one point. Other riders in the peleton were calling out numbers of the offending riders and I?m sure some riders decided that if the rules weren?t going to be enforced, they were going to take advantage of the situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke the rules and caught up with the break. The rest of the peleton decided catch up rather than let the offending riders profit from the situation. In subsequent laps, the peleton was mostly strung out on that stretch of road so there weren?t more issues.

What occurred was dangerous and very unsporting. I don?t think the race promoters can be held responsible ? they do everything they can to put the event on. The least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride a fair and safe race. Follow the rules or don?t race?go for a ride with your friends and let the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

Dave

---------------------------------

From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22 PM

To: mad-@huttig.com

Cc: dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode... I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the lead car usually went far enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on a forest service road, or any other non-center line road for that matter. So do you go neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable (and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to make sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you were caught back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going to have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and should be putting some distance on you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of incident for OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173

503 799 7823

jpow-@spiritone.com

===========================================================**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing desk toy!http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/Crazy Aaron Enterprises===========================================================

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.orgTo unsubscribe send toobra-un-@topica.com

===========================================================**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing desk toy!http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpa7qhHdg/ Crazy Aaron Enterprises===========================================================

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.orgTo unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<DIV>

<DIV>

"But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line. What specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in the middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see infrequently."

First, to repeat:

"+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told that the road didn?t have a yellow line and that they were still expected stay off the left lane or they were breaking the rules."

<DIV>There was certainly a consensus on the location of the centerline, as evidenced by the majority of the peloton's lack of difficulty complying with the centerline rule even on the section with out a painted line. Approximately one dozen riders chose the "see no evil, hear no evil" approach and advanced past the rest of us that were respecting the "invisible" line. </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>If any of those riders who advanced past twenty or so other riders in the course of twenty seconds are on this list: you risked people's lives in order to advance in an amateur bike race, hello?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>We all know that it is quite difficult to advance that number of spaces in a short period of time when the peoloton is bunched up and not drafting in a single or double line. </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Second,</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I am disappointed that I was the only member of the peoloton willing to look like a complete idiot screaming bloody murder at the aforementioned cheaters. It was my understanding that obra-land had agreed that we would not tolerate this sort of behavior. </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Was I wrong, because it sure felt like that's what you were saying by remaining silent?</DIV>

<DIV> "Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com> wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">

<DIV>But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line. What specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in the middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see infrequently.</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48 PM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion </DIV><PRE>===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

<A href="http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/">http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/</A>

Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

</PRE>

<DIV class=Section1>

Here is one perspective and some details for those that weren?t in the race:

 

+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told that the road didn?t have a yellow line and that they were still expected stay off the left lane or they were breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in question, a break occurred before the turn onto the narrow road without a centerline. It was a small break with 2-3 riders and as it happened, the team mates of one of the riders in the break were at the front of the main peleton going into the turn. As is expected, the team mates on the front of the peleton did not try to catch up to the break. They eased off and let the break go. That?s called bike racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn?t like this tactic and decided to ride over the centerline, pass the peleton and catch up with the break. There was no question that riders were making a conscious decision to cheat. Several riders got bunched up in the left lane and ended up taking over the whole road at one point. Other riders in the peleton were calling out numbers of the offending riders and I?m sure some riders decided that if the rules weren?t going to be enforced, they were going to take advantage of the situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke the rules and caught up with the break. The rest of the peleton decided catch up rather than let the offending riders profit from the situation. In subsequent laps, the peleton was mostly strung out on that stretch of road so there weren?t more issues.

 

What occurred was dangerous and very unsporting. I don?t think the race promoters can be held responsible ? they do everything they can to put the event on. The least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride a fair and safe race. Follow the rules or don?t race?go for a ride with your friends and let the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

 

Dave

 

<DIV>

<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>

<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>

</DIV>

From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22 PM To: mad-@huttig.com Cc: dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion</DIV>

 

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode... I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the lead car usually went far enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on a forest service road, or any other non-center line road for that matter. So do you go neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable (and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to make sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you were caught back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going to have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and should be putting some distance on you. 

 

As they say. That's road racing. 

 

Jerry 

 

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote: 

 

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of incident for OBRA. Just my opinion. 

Mike Adams 

 

-----Original Message----- 

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com] 

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM 

To: ob-@topica.com 

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion 

 

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I 

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow 

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no 

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within 

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I 

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to 

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest 

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that 

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the 

pace workload. 

 

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't 

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that 

passed me. 

 

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about 

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but 

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous 

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration 

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the 

front (another topic). 

 

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and 

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come 

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe 

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those 

narrow roads. 

 

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads. 

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out. 

 

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official 

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have 

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy. 

 

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries 

from a center line violation. 

 

Jerald M Powell, AICP 

Community Planning 

1926 SW Madison Street 

Portland, OR 97205 

 

503 222 7173 

503 799 7823 

 

jpow-@spiritone.com </DIV><PRE>===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies. ============================================================================== </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!? 

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--0-215990573-1080600005=:56264--

Whitlinger, David L

2004-03-29

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In this case it was discussed immediately prior to the 4/5 race. While

we were lining up and receiving instructions from the race officials,

the question was asked about the road without a centerline. The race

official stated that there was a stretch of road without a centerline

painted on it, but we were still expected to ride in the right lane and

not cross the center of the road. The road was open for two way traffic

and we needed to stay right. This was the instruction from the race

official at the start of the race - no interpretation necessary. So

riders might have had other opinions about how the race rules should

have been laid out for that part of the course, but the rules were clear

at the start of this race.

_____

From: Schreck, George [mailto:George.-@PacifiCorp.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:09 PM

To: Whitlinger, David L; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line.

What specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in

the middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see

infrequently.

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/

Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

Here is one perspective and some details for those that weren't

in the race:

+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the

race. Everyone was told that the road didn't have a yellow line and

that they were still expected stay off the left lane or they were

breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in question, a break occurred

before the turn onto the narrow road without a centerline. It was a

small break with 2-3 riders and as it happened, the team mates of one of

the riders in the break were at the front of the main peleton going into

the turn. As is expected, the team mates on the front of the peleton

did not try to catch up to the break. They eased off and let the break

go. That's called bike racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn't like this tactic and decided to

ride over the centerline, pass the peleton and catch up with the break.

There was no question that riders were making a conscious decision to

cheat. Several riders got bunched up in the left lane and ended up

taking over the whole road at one point. Other riders in the peleton

were calling out numbers of the offending riders and I'm sure some

riders decided that if the rules weren't going to be enforced, they were

going to take advantage of the situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke the rules and caught

up with the break. The rest of the peleton decided catch up rather than

let the offending riders profit from the situation. In subsequent laps,

the peleton was mostly strung out on that stretch of road so there

weren't more issues.

What occurred was dangerous and very unsporting. I don't think

the race promoters can be held responsible - they do everything they can

to put the event on. The least the riders can do is play by the rules

and ride a fair and safe race. Follow the rules or don't race...go for

a ride with your friends and let the rest of us have a fair, safe

contest.

Dave

_____

From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22 PM

To: mad-@huttig.com

Cc: dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question

has been a part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first

one I rode... I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been

there this weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out there, but in

the past, the lead car usually went far enough ahead to shut down

on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on a forest service

road, or any other non-center line road for that matter. So do you go

neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable

(and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to

make sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you

were caught back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going

to have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and should be putting some

distance on you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some

serious attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake.

The way to handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds

his\her position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and

second corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is

for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the

speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are

injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of

incident for OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon

Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the

narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was

no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue

within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if

I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the

pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the

safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders

that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually

share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It

didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders

that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal

about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very

dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some

frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking

at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to

monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to

come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would

be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for

those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest

Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack

out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the

official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should

have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no

injuries

from a center line violation.

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173

503 799 7823

jpow-@spiritone.com

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/

Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com

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addressee, is unauthorized.

If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

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<div class=Section1>

<div>

In this case it was discussed immediately

prior to the 4/5 race. While we were lining up and receiving instructions

from the race officials, the question was asked about the road without a

centerline. The race official stated that there was a stretch of road

without a centerline painted on it, but we were still expected to ride in the

right lane and not cross the center of the road. The road was open for

two way traffic and we needed to stay right. This was the instruction

from the race official at the start of the race – no interpretation

necessary. So riders might have had other opinions about how the race

rules should have been laid out for that part of the course, but the rules were

clear at the start of this race.

<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>

<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>

</div>

From: Schreck, George

[mailto:George.-@PacifiCorp.com] 

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:09

PM 

To: Whitlinger, David L;

ob-@topica.com 

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more

centerline discussion

</div>

 

<div>

But where was the centerline on a narrow

one-lane road with no line. What specific reference prevents a rider from

riding up next to you in the middle. I believe that this road was a

special case that we see infrequently.

</div>

<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

-----Original Message----- 

From: Dave Whitlinger

[mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com] 

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48

PM 

To: ob-@topica.com 

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more

centerline discussion

<pre>===========================================================</pre><pre>**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****</pre><pre>Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up </pre><pre>handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing </pre><pre>desk toy!</pre><pre><a

href="http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/">http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/</a></pre><pre>Crazy Aaron Enterprises</pre><pre>===========================================================</pre>

Here is one perspective and some details

for those that weren’t in the race:

 

+ All of the riders were explained the

rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told that the road

didn’t have a yellow line and that they were still expected stay off the

left lane or they were breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in

question, a break occurred before the turn onto the narrow road without a

centerline. It was a small break with 2-3 riders and as it happened, the

team mates of one of the riders in the break were at the front of the main

peleton going into the turn. As is expected, the team mates on the front

of the peleton did not try to catch up to the break. They eased off and

let the break go. That’s called bike racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn’t like

this tactic and decided to ride over the centerline, pass the peleton and catch

up with the break. There was no question that riders were making a

conscious decision to cheat. Several riders got bunched up in the left

lane and ended up taking over the whole road at one point. Other riders

in the peleton were calling out numbers of the offending riders and I’m

sure some riders decided that if the rules weren’t going to be enforced,

they were going to take advantage of the situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke

the rules and caught up with the break. The rest of the peleton decided

catch up rather than let the offending riders profit from the situation.

In subsequent laps, the peleton was mostly strung out on that stretch of

road so there weren’t more issues.

 

What occurred was dangerous and very

unsporting. I don’t think the race promoters can be held

responsible – they do everything they can to put the event on. The

least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride a fair and safe race.

Follow the rules or don’t race…go for a ride with your

friends and let the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

 

Dave

 

<div>

<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>

<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1>

</div>

From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com]

 

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22

PM 

To: mad-@huttig.com 

Cc: dirty-@attbi.com;

ob-@topica.com 

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more

centerline discussion

</div>

 

Come on

folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a part of many,

if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode... I think in 1980

or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this weekend, I don't know what

y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the lead car usually went far

enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on

a forest service road, or any other non-center line road for that matter. So do

you go neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable

(and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to make

sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you were caught

back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going to have a long day,

'cause the leaders can and should be putting some distance on you. 

 

As they

say. That's road racing. 

 

Jerry 

 

On Mar

29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote: 

 

I know I

am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention then that is

the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center line is to

go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would be the fair thing to

do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it

would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode

at the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are

injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of incident for

OBRA. Just my opinion. 

Mike

Adams 

 

-----Original

Message----- 

From:

Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com] 

Sent:

Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM 

To:

ob-@topica.com 

Subject:

[OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion 

 

The POC

presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I 

understood

that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow 

Dannon

Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no 

clear

center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within 

the pack

(4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I 

respected

the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to 

those

that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest 

place was

in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that 

were

attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the 

pace

workload. 

 

I broke

the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't 

do me any

any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that 

passed

me. 

 

There was

a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about 

pointing

out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but 

appropriate

to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous 

situation

if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration 

with a team

sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the 

front

(another topic). 

 

It would

have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and 

enforce.

There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come 

along the

side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe 

to have

the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those 

narrow

roads. 

 

The same

situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads. 

However,

those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out. 

 

I don't

think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official 

response

to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have 

enforced

it." The application in reality may not be so easy. 

 

In the

end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries 

from a

center line violation. 

 

Jerald M

Powell, AICP 

Community Planning 

1926 SW

Madison Street 

Portland,

OR 97205 

 

503 222

7173 

503 799

7823 

 

jpow-@spiritone.com



<pre>===========================================================</pre><pre>**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****</pre><pre>Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up </pre><pre>handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing </pre><pre>desk toy!</pre><pre><a

href="http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/">http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/</a></pre><pre>Crazy Aaron Enterprises</pre><pre>===========================================================</pre><pre>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.</pre><pre>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org</pre><pre>To unsubscribe send to</pre><pre>obra-uns-@topica.com</pre><pre>

</body>

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

 

This email is confidential and may be legally privileged. 

 

It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else,

unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is

unauthorized. 

 

If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C415DD.429857C8--

Woodcock, Thomas C

2004-03-29

Good e-mail, I think the point of rider responsibility and sportsmanship

needs to be called out. When the race started, the starter clearly

defined the rules specifically for that stretch of road, and everyone

was cool for the first lap. Things got dangerous when a group of riders

went off the front (which was a nice move) and people back of the pack

were eager to bridge that gap. Those riders did two things.

1. They blatantly broke the rules for centerline violations creating a

dangerous situation for themselves and all around them.

2. They showed poor sportsmanship through breaking the rules and

gaining an advantage over the other riders (created a large breakaway

group).

We as riders need to take responsibility to ride with integrity and most

importantly safety.

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

===========================================================

Are you looking for savings on products you use everyday?

Visit Quality Health today and see the coupons, free

samples and special offers our members enjoy each and

everyday.

http://click.topica.com/caab3ozaVxiDpa84p9la/ Ivo Interactive

===========================================================

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpa84p9lf/ Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Schreck, George

2004-03-29

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand

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------_=_NextPart_001_01C415DA.705FBE55

Content-Type: text/plain

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

But where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line. What

specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in the

middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see

infrequently.

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave Whitlinger [mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:48 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

===========================================================

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Here is one perspective and some details for those that weren't in the race:

+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the race.

Everyone was told that the road didn't have a yellow line and that they were

still expected stay off the left lane or they were breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in question, a break occurred before the

turn onto the narrow road without a centerline. It was a small break with

2-3 riders and as it happened, the team mates of one of the riders in the

break were at the front of the main peleton going into the turn. As is

expected, the team mates on the front of the peleton did not try to catch up

to the break. They eased off and let the break go. That's called bike

racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn't like this tactic and decided to ride over the

centerline, pass the peleton and catch up with the break. There was no

question that riders were making a conscious decision to cheat. Several

riders got bunched up in the left lane and ended up taking over the whole

road at one point. Other riders in the peleton were calling out numbers of

the offending riders and I'm sure some riders decided that if the rules

weren't going to be enforced, they were going to take advantage of the

situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke the rules and caught up with the

break. The rest of the peleton decided catch up rather than let the

offending riders profit from the situation. In subsequent laps, the peleton

was mostly strung out on that stretch of road so there weren't more issues.

What occurred was dangerous and very unsporting. I don't think the race

promoters can be held responsible - they do everything they can to put the

event on. The least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride a fair

and safe race. Follow the rules or don't race...go for a ride with your

friends and let the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

Dave

_____

From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22 PM

To: mad-@huttig.com

Cc: dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a

part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode...

I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this weekend, I

don't know what y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the lead car

usually went far enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By the way,

it's the same thing on a forest service road, or any other non-center line

road for that matter. So do you go neutral in that kind of situation? I

guess you could, but the reasonable (and tactically correct) way to ride

that kind of racing situation is to make sure you're at or off the front

when you enter that road. If you were caught back in the pack when you left

the good road , you're going to have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and

should be putting some distance on you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention

then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no

center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would

be the fair thing to do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode

are blind and all it would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive

on that side of the rode at the speed posted or there about, to cut the

corner and many riders are injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we

need this type of incident for OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173

503 799 7823

jpow-@spiritone.com

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/

<http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/> Crazy Aaron Enterprises

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<DIV>But

where was the centerline on a narrow one-lane road with no line. What

specific reference prevents a rider from riding up next to you in the

middle. I believe that this road was a special case that we see

infrequently.</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>-----Original Message----- From: Dave

Whitlinger

[mailto:david.l.w-@intel.com] Sent: Monday, March 29,

2004

1:48 PM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat]

more

centerline

discussion </DIV><PRE>===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

<A

href="http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/">http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpaVzo6Rb/</A>

Crazy Aaron Enterprises

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</PRE>

<DIV class=Section1>

Here is one

perspective and some details for those that weren’t in the

race:

 

+ All of the riders

were explained the rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told

that the road didn’t have a yellow line and that they were still

expected stay

off the left lane or they were breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5

race, on the lap in question, a break occurred before the turn onto the

narrow

road without a centerline. It was a small break with 2-3 riders and as

it happened, the team mates of one of the riders in the break were at the

front of the main peleton going into the turn. As is expected, the

team

mates on the front of the peleton did not try to catch up to the break.

They eased off and let the break go. That’s called bike

racing.

+ Around 10-15

riders

didn’t like this tactic and decided to ride over the centerline, pass

the

peleton and catch up with the break. There was no question that riders

were making a conscious decision to cheat. Several riders got bunched

up

in the left lane and ended up taking over the whole road at one point.

Other riders in the peleton were calling out numbers of the offending riders

and I’m sure some riders decided that if the rules weren’t going

to be

enforced, they were going to take advantage of the situation as

well.

+ In the end, after

about 15 riders broke the rules and caught up with the break. The rest

of the peleton decided catch up rather than let the offending riders profit

from the situation. In subsequent laps, the peleton was mostly strung

out on that stretch of road so there weren’t more

issues.

 

What occurred was

dangerous and very unsporting. I don’t think the race promoters

can be

held responsible – they do everything they can to put the event on.

The

least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride a fair and safe race.

Follow the rules or don’t race…go for a ride with your

friends and let

the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

 

Dave

 

<DIV>

<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>

<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>

</DIV>

From:

Jerald

Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22

PM To:

mad-@huttig.com Cc:

dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more

centerline

discussion</DIV>

 

Come on

folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a part of

many,

if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode... I think in

1980

or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this weekend, I don't know what

y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the lead car usually went far

enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the same thing

on a forest service road, or any other non-center line road for that matter.

So do you go neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the

reasonable (and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing

situation

is to make sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you

were caught back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going to

have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and should be putting some distance

on

you. 

 

As they

say. That's road racing. 

 

Jerry



 

On Mar

29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote: 

 

I know

I

am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention then that

is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center line

is

to go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would be the fair

thing to do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode are blind

and

all it would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of

the rode at the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many

riders

are injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of

incident

for OBRA. Just my opinion. 

Mike

Adams 

 

-----Original Message----- 

From:

Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com] 

Sent:

Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM 

To:

ob-@topica.com 

Subject:

[OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion 

 

The POC

presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I



understood that the centerline rule still applied

even

on the narrow 

Dannon

Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no



clear

center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within



the

pack

(4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I 

respected

the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to



those

that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest



place

was

in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that 

were

attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the



pace

workload. 

 

I broke

the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't



do me

any

any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that



passed

me. 

 

There

was

a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about



pointing

out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but 

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially

a

very dangerous 

situation

if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration



with a

team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the



front

(another topic). 

 

It

would

have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and



enforce.

There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come



along

the

side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe



to have

the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those



narrow

roads. 

 

The

same

situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.



However,

those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.



 

I don't

think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official



response

to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have 

enforced

it." The application in reality may not be so easy. 

 

In the

end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries



from a

center line violation. 

 

Jerald

M

Powell, AICP 

Community

Planning 

1926 SW

Madison Street 

Portland, OR 97205 

 

503 222

7173 

503 799

7823 

 

jpow-@spiritone.com

</DIV><PRE>===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

<A

href="http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/">http://click.topica.com/caab5n2aVxiDpaVzo6Rg/</A>

Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

</PRE><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Keith A. Prior

2004-03-29

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All this discussion of the Piece of Cake centerline stuff but.....where are

the results of the race?

:)

-Keith

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<DIV>All this discussion of the Piece of Cake

centerline stuff but.....where are the results of the

race?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>:)</DIV>

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Whitlinger, David L

2004-03-29

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Here is one perspective and some details for those that weren't in the

race:

+ All of the riders were explained the rules at the start of the race.

Everyone was told that the road didn't have a yellow line and that they

were still expected stay off the left lane or they were breaking the

rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in question, a break occurred before

the turn onto the narrow road without a centerline. It was a small

break with 2-3 riders and as it happened, the team mates of one of the

riders in the break were at the front of the main peleton going into the

turn. As is expected, the team mates on the front of the peleton did

not try to catch up to the break. They eased off and let the break go.

That's called bike racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn't like this tactic and decided to ride over

the centerline, pass the peleton and catch up with the break. There was

no question that riders were making a conscious decision to cheat.

Several riders got bunched up in the left lane and ended up taking over

the whole road at one point. Other riders in the peleton were calling

out numbers of the offending riders and I'm sure some riders decided

that if the rules weren't going to be enforced, they were going to take

advantage of the situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke the rules and caught up with

the break. The rest of the peleton decided catch up rather than let the

offending riders profit from the situation. In subsequent laps, the

peleton was mostly strung out on that stretch of road so there weren't

more issues.

What occurred was dangerous and very unsporting. I don't think the race

promoters can be held responsible - they do everything they can to put

the event on. The least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride

a fair and safe race. Follow the rules or don't race...go for a ride

with your friends and let the rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

Dave

_____

From: Jerald Powell [mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22 PM

To: mad-@huttig.com

Cc: dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a

part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first one I

rode... I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there

this weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out there, but in the

past, the lead car usually went far enough ahead to shut down on-coming

traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on a forest service road, or

any other non-center line road for that matter. So do you go neutral in

that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable (and

tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to make

sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you were

caught back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going to

have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and should be putting some

distance on you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious

attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to

handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her

position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and second

corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is for a

disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the speed

posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are injured

seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of incident for

OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173

503 799 7823

jpow-@spiritone.com

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Here is one perspective and some details

for those that weren’t in the race:

 

+ All of the riders were explained the

rules at the start of the race. Everyone was told that the road didn’t

have a yellow line and that they were still expected stay off the left lane or they

were breaking the rules.

+ In the CAT 4/5 race, on the lap in

question, a break occurred before the turn onto the narrow road without a

centerline. It was a small break with 2-3 riders and as it happened, the

team mates of one of the riders in the break were at the front of the main

peleton going into the turn. As is expected, the team mates on the front

of the peleton did not try to catch up to the break. They eased off and

let the break go. That’s called bike racing.

+ Around 10-15 riders didn’t like

this tactic and decided to ride over the centerline, pass the peleton and catch

up with the break. There was no question that riders were making a conscious

decision to cheat. Several riders got bunched up in the left lane and

ended up taking over the whole road at one point. Other riders in the

peleton were calling out numbers of the offending riders and I’m sure

some riders decided that if the rules weren’t going to be enforced, they

were going to take advantage of the situation as well.

+ In the end, after about 15 riders broke

the rules and caught up with the break. The rest of the peleton decided

catch up rather than let the offending riders profit from the situation. In

subsequent laps, the peleton was mostly strung out on that stretch of road so

there weren’t more issues.

 

What occurred was dangerous and very

unsporting. I don’t think the race promoters can be held

responsible – they do everything they can to put the event on. The

least the riders can do is play by the rules and ride a fair and safe race. Follow

the rules or don’t race…go for a ride with your friends and let the

rest of us have a fair, safe contest.

 

Dave

 

<div>

<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>

<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>

</div>

From: Jerald Powell

[mailto:jpow-@spiritone.com] 

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:22

PM 

To: mad-@huttig.com 

Cc: dirty-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com 

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more

centerline discussion

</div>

 

Come on

folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a part of many,

if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode... I think in 1980

or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this weekend, I don't know what

y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the lead car usually went far

enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on

a forest service road, or any other non-center line road for that matter. So do

you go neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable

(and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to make

sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you were caught

back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going to have a long day,

'cause the leaders can and should be putting some distance on you. 

 

As they

say. That's road racing. 

 

Jerry 

 

On Mar

29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote: 

 

I know I

am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention then that is

the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center line is to

go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would be the fair thing to

do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it

would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode

at the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are

injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of incident for

OBRA. Just my opinion. 

Mike

Adams 

 

-----Original

Message----- 

From:

Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com] 

Sent:

Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM 

To: ob-@topica.com 

Subject:

[OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion 

 

The POC

presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I 

understood

that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow 

Dannon

Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no 

clear

center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within 

the pack

(4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I 

respected

the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to 

those

that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest 

place was

in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that 

were

attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the 

pace

workload. 

 

I broke

the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't 

do me any

any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that 

passed

me. 

 

There was

a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about 

pointing

out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but 

appropriate

to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous 

situation

if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration 

with a

team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the 

front

(another topic). 

 

It would

have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and 

enforce.

There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come 

along the

side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe 

to have

the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those 

narrow

roads. 

 

The same

situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads. 

However,

those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out. 

 

I don't

think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official 

response

to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have 

enforced

it." The application in reality may not be so easy. 

 

In the

end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries 

from a

center line violation. 

 

Jerald M

Powell, AICP 

Community Planning 

1926 SW

Madison Street 

Portland,

OR 97205 

 

503 222

7173 

503 799

7823 

 

jpow-@spiritone.com



</div>

</body>

</html>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C415D7.8A361B4C--

Peter Murphy

2004-03-29

"usually" is a word that gets people killed.

Pete Murphy

"...sometimes the smallest, softest voice, carries the grand biggest

solution.." NOFX

From: Jerald Powell <jpow-@spiritone.com>

Reply-To: jpow-@spiritone.com

To: mad-@huttig.com

CC: dirty-@attbi.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:21:59 -0800

===========================================================

Are you looking for savings on products you use everyday? Visit Quality

Health today and see the coupons, free samples and special offers our

members enjoy each and everyday.

http://click.topica.com/caab3ozaVxiDpa5cOPKa/ Ivo Interactive

===========================================================

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been a

part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first one I rode...

I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there this

weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out there, but in the past, the

lead car usually went far enough ahead to shut down on-coming traffic. By

the way, it's the same thing on a forest service road, or any other

non-center line road for that matter. So do you go neutral in that kind

of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable (and tactically

correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to make sure you're

at or off the front when you enter that road. If you were caught back in

the pack when you left the good road , you're going to have a long day,

'cause the leaders can and should be putting some distance on you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious

attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to

handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her

position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and second corner

on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is for a

disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the speed

posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are injured

seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of incident for

OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173

503 799 7823

jpow-@spiritone.com

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up handfuls. It's the

creativity unleashing, mood enhancing desk toy!

http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpa5cOPKf/ Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms ? all in one place at MSN Money!

http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp

Jerald Powell

2004-03-29

--Apple-Mail-13--794695132

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset=US-ASCII;

format=flowed

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has been

a part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first one I

rode... I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been there

this weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out there, but in the

past, the lead car usually went far enough ahead to shut down on-coming

traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on a forest service road, or

any other non-center line road for that matter. So do you go neutral

in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but the reasonable (and

tactically correct) way to ride that kind of racing situation is to

make sure you're at or off the front when you enter that road. If you

were caught back in the pack when you left the good road , you're going

to have a long day, 'cause the leaders can and should be putting some

distance on you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious

attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way

to handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her

position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and second

corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is for

a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the

speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are

injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of

incident for OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service

roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173

503 799 7823

jpow-@spiritone.com

--Apple-Mail-13--794695132

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Type: text/enriched;

charset=US-ASCII

Come on folks... ride the bike. The piece of road in question has

been a part of many, if not most piece of cake races since the first

one I rode... I think in 1980 or '81, can't be sure. Having not been

there this weekend, I don't know what y'all were doing out there, but

in the past, the lead car usually went far enough ahead to shut down

on-coming traffic. By the way, it's the same thing on a forest

service road, or any other non-center line road for that matter. So

do you go neutral in that kind of situation? I guess you could, but

the reasonable (and tactically correct) way to ride that kind of

racing situation is to make sure you're at or off the front when you

enter that road. If you were caught back in the pack when you left

the good road , you're going to have a long day, 'cause the leaders

can and should be putting some distance on you.

As they say. That's road racing.

Jerry

On Mar 29, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Adams, Mike wrote:

<excerpt>

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious

attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way

to handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her

position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and second

corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is for

a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the

speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are

injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of

incident for OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue

within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It

didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be

safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service

roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

</excerpt>Jerald M Powell, AICP

<italic><x-tad-smaller>Community Planning</x-tad-smaller></italic>

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173

503 799 7823

jpow-@spiritone.com

--Apple-Mail-13--794695132--

Woodcock, Thomas C

2004-03-29

Adams, Mike

2004-03-29

I know I am just one, but unless this situation gets some serious attention then that is the last time I will do piece of cake. The way to handle no center line is to go neutral and everyone holds his\her position. This would be the fair thing to do. The first and second corner on that stretch of rode are blind and all it would take is for a disgruntled driver, who can drive on that side of the rode at the speed posted or there about, to cut the corner and many riders are injured seriously or fatally. I do not think we need this type of incident for OBRA. Just my opinion.

Mike Adams

-----Original Message-----

From: Nick Glazener [mailto:dirty-@attbi.com]

Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:50 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] more centerline discussion

===========================================================

Are you looking for savings on products you use everyday?

Visit Quality Health today and see the coupons, free

samples and special offers our members enjoy each and

everyday.

http://click.topica.com/caab3ozaVxiDpa84p7Wa/ Ivo Interactive

===========================================================

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

===========================================================

**** Bounces like rubber! Shatters like ceramic! ****

Discover Crazy Aaron's Thinking Putty in grown up

handfuls. It's the creativity unleashing, mood enhancing

desk toy!

http://click.topica.com/caab4CEaVxiDpa84p7Wf/ Crazy Aaron Enterprises

===========================================================

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Nick Glazener

2004-03-29

The POC presented some unique center line challenges on Dannon Rd.. I

understood that the centerline rule still applied even on the narrow

Dannon Rd.. That would have been very difficult since there was no

clear center line. There was a lot of confusion about the issue within

the pack (4/5). After a couple laps it was obvious to me that if I

respected the rule, then I was going to loose position in the pack to

those that were ignoring the rule. As most racers know, the safest

place was in the front quarter of the pack. None of the riders that

were attacking the left side of the road wanted to actually share the

pace workload.

I broke the rule on the third lap to get up the front third. It didn't

do me any any good because there were 3 times as many offenders that

passed me.

There was a lot of verbal bantering. One rider was quite verbal about

pointing out the offending riders by number. It was annoying but

appropriate to use peer pressure. It was potentially a very dangerous

situation if there had been a car up. There was also some frustration

with a team sending riders up in a break away and then blocking at the

front (another topic).

It would have been a very difficult job for an official to monitor and

enforce. There wasn't even a safe place for an official's car to come

along the side and warn offending riders. I wonder if it would be safe

to have the official car travel on the left side of the pack for those

narrow roads.

The same situation exist for those races that use Forrest Service roads.

However, those roads tend to be in the hills which thin the pack out.

I don't think there any easy answers for this. I expect the official

response to be, "the rule was in effect and officials should have

enforced it." The application in reality may not be so easy.

In the end, it all sorted itself out for a good finish and no injuries

from a center line violation.

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