Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> Hi there,
>
> I have put my email address in the unsubscribe box through the URL
> provided several times over the last week or so but still have been
> receiving updates almost daily. Please remove my name and email
> address from the email directory.
>
> Thank you,
> B. Wright
> bjoywright@frontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: obra-request@list.obra.org
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 12:00:00 PM
Subject: OBRA Digest, Vol 73, Issue 5
Send OBRA mailing list submissions to
obra@list.obra.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
obra-request@list.obra.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
obra-owner@list.obra.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OBRA digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. FS: Carbon CX D/A Bike (Scott Mares)
2. Re: FS: Carbon CX D/A Bike (Devin Flynn)
3. Bend Will Host Masters Road Natz for 2013 (Pat Malach)
4. FS : XC Skate & classic skis and boots (kirti walpole)
5. flying with bikes... (david hill)
6. FS: Easton EC90 Tubular Wheelset (Trevor Spahr)
7. Fwd: News from CPSC - Recall (gschreckchat@comcast.net)
8. FS : XC Skate & classic skis and boots (Kirti Walpole)
9. Slight date change for 2012 Masters Track National
Championships - USA Cycling (Alfred E Nash III)
10. Jamis carbon women's Road bike - CHEAP (John O'Brien)
11. FS: Wireless Powertap Pro+ laced to Open Pro wheel (Joel Rosinbum)
12. Stolen Chris King Wheelset (Camille Hook)
13. CX Mag Article on USA Junior racing (John Wilson)
14. Fs: carbon cx frame giant large (Luke)
15. Re: CX Mag Article on USA Junior racing (Candi Murray)
16. WTT or Sell Hutchinson piranha and cobra tire set (sean)
17. Re: WTT or Sell Hutchinson piranha and cobra tire set (sean)
18. OT: Backcountry ski set up for sale (Dave)
19. FS: Castelli Ergo Tre Knickers, 2010, Large (Eric Franklin)
20. Re: FS: 2009 Giant TCR Advanced Sl (fantastic value)
(MARK STEGER)
21. EASTON EC 90 AERO 2011/2010 Model. (David Root)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:17:56 -0800
From: Scott Mares
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Carbon CX D/A Bike
Message-ID: <4f04b3f49c736_334f4008c635c582ad@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
For sale: 58 cm Fuji Altamira CX 1.0. 58cm Frame and fork is high mod carbon fiber, white, red and blue. Shifters Dura Ace 10 spd,front and rear derailleurs are Dura Ace, Crank is FSA SLK carbon. Wheels are Oval concept carbon clinchers, Tires are Vittoria. Oval concept carbon bars, Oval AL Stem, Oval Concepts seat post and saddle. No pedals. Never crashed looks great and rides even better. MSRP is $5,799 selling for $2,800 contact me via email for test ride and viewing scott(at)crossbikereview(dot)com or call at 719.201.0726.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 12:36:24 -0800
From: Devin Flynn
To: Scott Mares
Cc: "obra@list.obra.org"
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FS: Carbon CX D/A Bike
Message-ID: <4944F850-7320-4C54-83D7-D1B3FA1F2DAD@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
6 emails about this bike to Obra in the past 3 or 4 weeks. You've dropped your price all of $200 since the first post, from $3000 to $2800. Apparently you think it's worth more than the rest of us do. I'd recommend dropping the price further or better yet selling it on eBay. At some point the continued reposting becomes a faux pas.
Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 4, 2012, at 12:17 PM, Scott Mares wrote:
> For sale: 58 cm Fuji Altamira CX 1.0. 58cm Frame and fork is high mod carbon fiber, white, red and blue. Shifters Dura Ace 10 spd,front and rear derailleurs are Dura Ace, Crank is FSA SLK carbon. Wheels are Oval concept carbon clinchers, Tires are Vittoria. Oval concept carbon bars, Oval AL Stem, Oval Concepts seat post and saddle. No pedals. Never crashed looks great and rides even better. MSRP is $5,799 selling for $2,800 contact me via email for test ride and viewing scott(at)crossbikereview(dot)com or call at 719.201.0726.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 13:06:46 -0800
From: Pat Malach
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bend Will Host Masters Road Natz for 2013
Message-ID: <4f04bf66d8fb3_334f4008c635c588c@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Bend will host Masters Road Nationals for the third consecutive year in 2013. Read more here:
http://oregon.cyclingaction.com/2012/bend-will-host-masters-road-natz-in-2013/
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 14:07:42 -0800 (PST)
From: kirti walpole
To: "obra@list.obra.org"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS : XC Skate & classic skis and boots
Message-ID:
<1325714862.59456.YahooMailNeo@web39402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Cross Country skiing a great way to cross train during the winter season.
I have the following two pairs of skate skis for sale, both are in good condition and have Solomon SNS Pilot bindings:
Rossignol Delta Course skate skis, length 173 cm , good firm track ski for small skiers with body weight 90-120 lbs. $125
Rossignol Delta Course Cobra TH skate skis, length 1.9 meters. Good firm track ski for larger skiers with body weight over 170 lbs. $175
Waxable Classic Skis :
Rossignol X-ium Classic Course - classic race skis, 208 cm, best for skiers with body weight 180 lbs and over. Fitted with Solomon Equipe classic Profile bindings. Excellent condition, barely used. $175.
Boots :
Atomic Race Carbon Skate boots, EUR size 46, SNS pilot binding system, in excellent condition, only used a couple of times. $150
Fischer C9000 classic ski boots, EUR size 45, excellent condition, only used a couple of times. $95
If interested please reply privately off the list. I have pictures too.
Kirti
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 14:30:36 -0800 (PST)
From: david hill
To: "obra@list.obra.org"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] flying with bikes...
Message-ID:
<1325716236.36859.YahooMailNeo@web111501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
To avoid airplane hassle, try bikeflights.com.
Maybe 50 bucks each way, and super convenient.? The guy who runs the company is a good friend and just relocated to Portland from the east coast.? We've used the service, and it was great.? We used to ship directly through fedex, but they are serious pains in the ass about bike box dimensions.?
Good luck!
Dave.
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 14:31:48 -0800
From: Trevor Spahr
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Easton EC90 Tubular Wheelset
Message-ID: <4f04d35466a18_ac964008c635c2559b@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This is the 56mm deep carbon tubular wheelset from 2011 with Sram freehub. Wheels are less than a year old with about 6 road races and a handful of tt's on them. Less than 400 miles of total use. They were only glued once and some of the old glue is still left over on the tire bed. Asking $1700 O.B.O.
Trevor.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 22:54:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: obra obra
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: News from CPSC - Recall
Message-ID:
<13662836.341942.1325717689536.JavaMail.root@sz0097a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
----- Forwarded Message -----
Bicycle Pedals Recalled by Performance Inc. Due to Fall Hazard
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, in cooperation with the firm named below, today announced a voluntary recall of the following consumer product. Consumers should stop using recalled products immediately unless otherwise instructed. It is illegal to resell or attempt to resell a recalled consumer product.
Name of product: 2011 Fort? Pro Carbon Road Pedals
Units: About 2,900
Importer: Performance, Inc, of Chapel Hill, N.C.
Hazard: The pedal body can break or crack during use, causing the rider to lose control and posing a fall hazard.
Incidents/Injuries: Performance has received three reports of the pedals breaking. No injuries have been reported.
Description: Fort? Pro Carbon Road Pedals are sold in sets of two bicycle pedals that attach to cycling shoes. The pedal body is black and is made of lightweight carbon injected thermoplastic. The axle is a black and made of chromium molybdenum steel with a black steel axle. The front, top of the pedal has "Carbon" printed in red; the top middle has "EPS-R" embossed in the body with the "R" in red and on the top rear of the pedal the word "Fort?" printed in white. The outer edge of the pedal has the Fort? logos, crossed F's, in white. The catalog number, 50-8128, is used in all catalogs.
Sold at: Performance's website, catalogs and Performance retail stores from February 2011 through October 2011 for about $100.
Manufactured in: Taiwan
Remedy: Consumers should immediately stop using these bicycle pedals and contact Performance to obtain a full refund.
Consumer Contact: For additional information, contact Performance at (800) 553-8324 between 9 a.m. and 8 p.m. ET Monday through Friday, or visit the company's website at www.performancebike.com
To see this recall on CPSC's web site, including a picture of the recalled product, please go to:
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml12/12078.html
********************************************************
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 08:47:08 -0800
From: Kirti Walpole <"kirti@walpole"@yahoo.com>
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS : XC Skate & classic skis and boots
Message-ID: <4f04828bf4108_334f4008c635c56473@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Cross Country skiing a great way to cross train during the winter season.
I have the following two pairs of skate skis for sale, both are in good condition and have Solomon SNS Pilot bindings:
Rossignol Delta Course skate skis, length 173 cm , good firm track ski for small skiers with body weight 90-120 lbs. $125
Rossignol Delta Course Cobra TH skate skis, length 1.9 meters. Good firm track ski for larger skiers with body weight over 170 lbs. $175
Waxable Classic Skis :
Rossignol X-ium Classic Course - classic race skis, 208 cm, best for skiers with body weight 180 lbs and over. Fitted with Solomon Equipe classic Profile bindings. Excellent condition, barely used. $175.
Boots :
Atomic Race Carbon Skate boots, EUR size 46, SNS pilot binding system, in excellent condition, only used a couple of times. $150
Fischer C9000 classic ski boots, EUR size 45, excellent condition, only used a couple of times. $95
If interested please reply privately off the list. I have photo's too.
Kirti
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 16:53:18 -0800
From: Alfred E Nash III
To: "SoCalTrack@topica.com" ,
"velodromes@yYahoogroups.com\"" ,
HellyerVelodrome group , OBRA List
, mvainfo@googlegroups.com,
paa_cycling@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Slight date change for 2012 Masters Track
National Championships - USA Cycling
Message-ID: <4F04F47E.4060202@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Slight date change for 2012 Masters Track National Championships - USA
Cycling http://bit.ly/xs6fJR
USA Cycling announced today a slight date change for this summer's
Masters Track National Championships in Colorado Springs, Colo.
The event will now take place *July 31 -- Aug. 5*, instead of on the
previously scheduled dates of Aug. 2-7.
The event is being held at the 7-Eleven US Olympic Training Center
Velodrome in Colorado Springs, and packet pickup will now take place on
July 30.
See USA Cycling's complete 2012 National Championship Calendar here
.
http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=97
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 17:12:12 -0800
From: "John O'Brien"
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Jamis carbon women's Road bike - CHEAP
Message-ID: <001b01cccb47$1032e830$3098b890$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Demo bike only ridden 2-3 times. I'm the Jamis rep and need to make some
room on my sample budget for other great bikes on the way. Incredible bike
for the money. Call w/questions. 360.989.6361 See web link.
Jamis Xenith Race, Femme (women's geo), 51cm
http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/xenith/12_xenithracef.html
MSRP: $2800 Demo price: $1100
High modulus Dyad carbon fiber layup
Full carbon fork, hollow blades
Tapered headtube
Size specific tubing
pressFit BB30
asymmetrical chainstays
Mavic Aksium Race wheelset
Ultegra derailleurs / shifters
Selle San Marco saddle
Carbon seatpost
Ritchey bar/stem
John O'Brien
Description: Description: 2006_JAMIS_LOGO
360.989.6361
jobrien@jamisbikes.com
www.jamisbikes.com
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 17:16:35 -0800
From: Joel Rosinbum
To: OBRA
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Wireless Powertap Pro+ laced to Open Pro
wheel
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Obra,
I have a wireless powertap pro+ that is laced into a 32 spoke Open Pro
wheel. This is a great training wheel that I just don't use any more. It
probably has less than 1500 miles on it. Shortly after I got it
I received a Quarq. Its been sitting idle for the past 1.5 years and I
figure that some one should be getting some use out of it.
Email me back off list
Cheers,
Joel
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:18:37 -0800
From: Camille Hook
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Stolen Chris King Wheelset
Message-ID: <4f04fa6d3f496_ac964008c635c2773@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hey OBRAland,
I had my wheelset stolen this afternoon outside my workplace on NE 32nd and Broadway.
They were:
Chris King Pink hubs (32H)
DT swiss R585 silver rims.
Black Zaffiro tires.
9speed cassette.
Dent in rear rim.
If you see anything that may lead to them, please forward any information to me.
camillebhook@gmail.com
503.804.3596
Thanks in advance
Camille Hook
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 18:15:19 -0800
From: "John Wilson"
To:
Subject: [OBRA Chat] CX Mag Article on USA Junior racing
Message-ID: <004401cccb4f$dfe714e0$9fb53ea0$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I did some data crunching on who had successful junior racing numbers around
the country. Oregon looks pretty good. Check it out!
John Wilson
http://www.cxmagazine.com/healthy-junior-cyclocross
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 18:40:13 -0800
From: Luke
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fs: carbon cx frame giant large
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Selling my giant tcx advanced sl frame set. Frame, fork, headset, crank and bb. Used 1 season and in great shape. Usual scuffs from use but nothing major. Cranks have some grooves from my feet rubbing them. Nothing structural. It is a large or 57. Frame has an integrated seat mast and uses a spacer system. I run 175 cranks and the measurement I used was from center of pedal at bottom center to seat rails at 97cm. Plenty of up and down room.
$900
Sent from my iPad
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:21:01 -0800
From: "Candi Murray"
To: "'John Wilson'" ,
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] CX Mag Article on USA Junior racing
Message-ID: <001a01cccb59$0d63bd70$282b3850$@obra.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Nice John.
Great thing you have created and nurtured. We all owe you a debt of
gratitude.
Candi
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of John Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 6:15 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] CX Mag Article on USA Junior racing
I did some data crunching on who had successful junior racing numbers around
the country. Oregon looks pretty good. Check it out!
John Wilson
http://www.cxmagazine.com/healthy-junior-cyclocross
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 08:07:11 -0800
From: sean
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTT or Sell Hutchinson piranha and cobra tire set
Message-ID: <4f05caaf4e5f_ac964008c635c316f@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi all,
I have a brand new set of hutchinson tubeless tires. One is a piranha and the other a cobra. Super light racing tire with a fast tread but still very grippy! I bought two sets of these thinking it would be good to have an extra set laying around. but I'd like a little more diversity. Looking to trade for some hutchinson Toros or something similar. Prefer new or like new. If no trade $60 is the price
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 08:13:57 -0800
From: sean
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] WTT or Sell Hutchinson piranha and cobra tire
set
Message-ID: <4f05cc459232e_127704008c635c58186@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Sorry for the second post. These are 26" tires.
Hi all,
I have a brand new set of hutchinson tubeless tires. One is a piranha and the other a cobra. Super light racing tire with a fast tread but still very grippy! I bought two sets of these thinking it would be good to have an extra set laying around. but I'd like a little more diversity. Looking to trade for some hutchinson Toros or something similar. Prefer new or like new. If no trade $60 is the price
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 09:59:24 -0800
From: Dave
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OT: Backcountry ski set up for sale
Message-ID: <4f05e4fc519b_127704008c635c5911e@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
These are up on Ebay and will be a good deal. Dynafit skis, bindings and skins.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dynafit-Carbon-Skis-Dynafit-bindings-and-Dynafit-skins-complete-package-/300645915724?pt=Skiing&hash=item45ffe49c4c#ht_500wt_1101
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:38:56 -0800
From: Eric Franklin
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Castelli Ergo Tre Knickers, 2010, Large
Message-ID: <4f05ee4054fe_127704008c635c59214@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Only worn a few times. They don't fit me quite right. $30.
Eric
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 10:49:00 -0800
From: MARK STEGER
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FS: 2009 Giant TCR Advanced Sl (fantastic
value)
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Obra community,
2009 Giant Tcr Advanced Sl Bike with Ultegra componetry. $995 obo.
Size Large with adjustable seat post. It is not an integrated seat post.
Ultegra Crank, Shifters, and Brakes have never been used.
The bike had Dura Ace on when used.
Krysium Elite Wheels or choose older Krsysium Sl wheels silver.
Great condition, see pics on Craig's list post link below.
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/bik/2784093372.html.
This is a great bike.
Call at 503-781-3021
Thanks for looking,
Mark
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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 11:43:22 -0800
From: David Root
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] EASTON EC 90 AERO 2011/2010 Model.
Message-ID: <4f05fd5a23357_825d4008c635c25856@lizard.obra.org.mail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This wheel set is in Premo condition! Very low use, with original Tufo 215 gr tubulars professionally glued on. The front wheel is a 2010 and has under 500 miles with no visible wear or scratches. The rear is a 2011 model and has only 200 miles on it as it was a warranty replacement. Only raced on dry days and mostly PIR. Easton has great warranty service! I still have a Easton set I will continue to race on. SRAM / SHIMANO compatible, Ceramin bearings and long valves so you don't have to use valve extenders. Wheel bags, Easton carbon brake pads and Easton Ti skewers included. I will provide pics to serious inquiries.
1,250.00. OBO
Thanks for looking.
David R.
------------------------------
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End of OBRA Digest, Vol 73, Issue 5
***********************************
unsubscribe
If we had a forum, we could put it to a vote :) I've setup phpBB before and
would be willing to help and/or do all of the setup myself. Just throwing it
out there...
Brett
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:50 PM, scott hill wrote:
> the forum in St. louis is great. maybe you should look into something like
> that. www.stlbiking.com
>
> scott
>
> --- On *Thu, 5/7/09, jboquiren@comcast.net * wrote:
>
> From: jboquiren@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
> To: "david baker"
> Cc: "OBRA"
> Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 9:42 PM
>
>
> I believe that's what Facebook is for.
>
> Joseph Boquiren
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "david baker"
> To: "Brett Luelling" , "OBRA"
> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:21:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
>
> If there was a forum then those of us that spend most of our time
> restraining from putting out too many e-mails in order to not bug people to
> much could comment on everything to our hearts delight without any
> complaints, ever, right?
> Maybe that's a good idea, I got lots of opinions to express!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Brett Luelling
> *To:* OBRA
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
>
> If we went with a forum we can have it send out digests. You would be able
> to search the content easier, and we could have different forums for the
> varying interests. That way if you didn't want to hear the complaining about
> a race, you could pass over that thread instead of having to delete a bunch
> of emails.
> Brett
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Kevin wrote:
>
>> and you can always elect to receive your OBRA chat as digest rather
>> than individual emails. As mentioned, you the recipient have the control
>> over this.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
>> http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> --- On *Thu, 5/7/09, john * wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: john
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
>> To: "Obra"
>> Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 5:10 PM
>>
>>
>> many of us have learned how to set up filters... and send emails
>> directly into an "obra" folder. This is why there is "[obra chat]" in the
>> subject line.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Quenton Conant <*MailScanner has detected
>> a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be* *MailScanner has
>> detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be*qconant@gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> 10mssg a day? where do I sign up?
>>>
>>> I'd love to only get 10 a day....
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
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>>> Unsubscribe: *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
>>> "mc" claiming to be* *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt
>>> from "mc" claiming to be* obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
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>> Unsubscribe: *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc"
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>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
the forum in St. louis is great. maybe you should look into something like that. www.stlbiking.com
scott
--- On Thu, 5/7/09, jboquiren@comcast.net wrote:
From: jboquiren@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
To: "david baker"
Cc: "OBRA"
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 9:42 PM
#yiv1723924398 p {margin:0;}
I believe that's what Facebook is for.
Joseph Boquiren
----- Original Message -----
From: "david baker"
To: "Brett Luelling" , "OBRA"
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:21:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
If there was a forum then those of us that spend most of our time restraining from putting out too many e-mails in order to not bug people to much could comment on everything to our hearts delight without any complaints, ever, right?
Maybe that's a good idea, I got lots of opinions to express!
----- Original Message -----
From: Brett Luelling
To: OBRA
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
If we went with a forum we can have it send out digests. You would be able to search the content easier, and we could have different forums for the varying interests. That way if you didn't want to hear the complaining about a race, you could pass over that thread instead of having to delete a bunch of emails.
Brett
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Kevin wrote:
and you can always elect to receive your OBRA chat as digest rather than individual emails. As mentioned, you the recipient have the control over this.
Kevin
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--- On Thu, 5/7/09, john wrote:
From: john
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
To: "Obra"
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 5:10 PM
many of us have learned how to set up filters... and send emails directly into an "obra" folder. This is why there is "[obra chat]" in the subject line.
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Quenton Conant wrote:
10mssg a day? where do I sign up?
I'd love to only get 10 a day....
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org _______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Sorry, meant to say: to throw in my stupid two cents, forums are more
full of garbage. Emails are perfect.
Max Kirchoff
Sent from my iPhone...
On May 7, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Cheryl Willson wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> This comes up periodically. I have set up a PhBB forum before and it
> is fine and it works just fine.
>
> That said, there are a number of people that have preferences either
> way (email list vs forum) so I'm disinclined to put the effort in to
> change it.
>
> Cheryl
>
>
> On May 7, 2009, at 7:37 PM, Quenton wrote:
>
>> forum options like PhPBB are excellent for things like this.
>> They are extremely customizable, easy to navigate, administration
>> is painless, and yes you can still receive a digest, email
>> notifications of responses, or nothing at all...
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Just to throw in my stupid two
Max Kirchoff
Sent from my iPhone...
On May 7, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Cheryl Willson wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> This comes up periodically. I have set up a PhBB forum before and it
> is fine and it works just fine.
>
> That said, there are a number of people that have preferences either
> way (email list vs forum) so I'm disinclined to put the effort in to
> change it.
>
> Cheryl
>
>
> On May 7, 2009, at 7:37 PM, Quenton wrote:
>
>> forum options like PhPBB are excellent for things like this.
>> They are extremely customizable, easy to navigate, administration
>> is painless, and yes you can still receive a digest, email
>> notifications of responses, or nothing at all...
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
I believe that's what Facebook is for.
Joseph Boquiren
----- Original Message -----
From: "david baker"
To: "Brett Luelling" , "OBRA"
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:21:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
If there was a forum then those of us that spend most of our time restraining from putting out too many e-mails in order to not bug people to much could comment on everything to our hearts delight without any complaints, ever, right?
Maybe that's a good idea, I got lots of opinions to express!
----- Original Message -----
From: Brett Luelling
To: OBRA
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
If we went with a forum we can have it send out digests. You would be able to search the content easier, and we could have different forums for the varying interests. That way if you didn't want to hear the complaining about a race, you could pass over that thread instead of having to delete a bunch of emails.
Brett
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Kevin < kevin97116@yahoo.com > wrote:
and you can always elect to receive your OBRA chat as digest rather than individual emails. As mentioned, you the recipient have the control over this.
Kevin
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--- On Thu, 5/7/09, john < jmsobr@bikeeng.com > wrote:
From: john < jmsobr@bikeeng.com >
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
To: "Obra" < obra@list.obra.org >
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 5:10 PM
many of us have learned how to set up filters... and send emails directly into an "obra" folder. This is why there is "[obra chat]" in the subject line.
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Quenton Conant < MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be qconant@gmail.com > wrote:
10mssg a day? where do I sign up?
I'd love to only get 10 a day....
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Hey all,
This comes up periodically. I have set up a PhBB forum before and it
is fine and it works just fine.
That said, there are a number of people that have preferences either
way (email list vs forum) so I'm disinclined to put the effort in to
change it.
Cheryl
On May 7, 2009, at 7:37 PM, Quenton wrote:
> forum options like PhPBB are excellent for things like this.
> They are extremely customizable, easy to navigate, administration is
> painless, and yes you can still receive a digest, email
> notifications of responses, or nothing at all...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
forum options like PhPBB are excellent for things like this.
They are extremely customizable, easy to navigate, administration is painless, and yes you can still receive a digest, email notifications of responses, or nothing at all...
If there was a forum then those of us that spend most of our time restraining from putting out too many e-mails in order to not bug people to much could comment on everything to our hearts delight without any complaints, ever, right?
Maybe that's a good idea, I got lots of opinions to express!
----- Original Message -----
From: Brett Luelling
To: OBRA
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
If we went with a forum we can have it send out digests. You would be able to search the content easier, and we could have different forums for the varying interests. That way if you didn't want to hear the complaining about a race, you could pass over that thread instead of having to delete a bunch of emails.
Brett
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Kevin wrote:
and you can always elect to receive your OBRA chat as digest rather than individual emails. As mentioned, you the recipient have the control over this.
Kevin
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--- On Thu, 5/7/09, john wrote:
From: john
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
To: "Obra"
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 5:10 PM
many of us have learned how to set up filters... and send emails directly into an "obra" folder. This is why there is "[obra chat]" in the subject line.
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Quenton Conant wrote:
10mssg a day? where do I sign up?
I'd love to only get 10 a day....
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "mc" claiming to be obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
If we went with a forum we can have it send out digests. You would be able
to search the content easier, and we could have different forums for the
varying interests. That way if you didn't want to hear the complaining about
a race, you could pass over that thread instead of having to delete a bunch
of emails.
Brett
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Kevin wrote:
> and you can always elect to receive your OBRA chat as digest rather than
> individual emails. As mentioned, you the recipient have the control over
> this.
>
> Kevin
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
> http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> --- On *Thu, 5/7/09, john * wrote:
>
>
> From: john
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
> To: "Obra"
> Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 5:10 PM
>
>
> many of us have learned how to set up filters... and send emails directly
> into an "obra" folder. This is why there is "[obra chat]" in the subject
> line.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Quenton Conant
> > wrote:
>
>> 10mssg a day? where do I sign up?
>>
>> I'd love to only get 10 a day....
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
and you can always elect to receive your OBRA chat as digest rather than individual emails. As mentioned, you the recipient have the control over this.
Kevin
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?
http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--- On Thu, 5/7/09, john wrote:
From: john
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Unsubscribe
To: "Obra"
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 5:10 PM
many of us have learned how to set up filters... and send emails directly into an "obra" folder. This is why there is "[obra chat]" in the subject line.
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Quenton Conant wrote:
10mssg a day? where do I sign up?
I'd love to only get 10 a day....
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
many of us have learned how to set up filters... and send emails directly
into an "obra" folder. This is why there is "[obra chat]" in the subject
line.
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Quenton Conant wrote:
> 10mssg a day? where do I sign up?
>
> I'd love to only get 10 a day....
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
10mssg a day? where do I sign up?
I'd love to only get 10 a day....
Arn, Jim, Kelly, and anyone else wanting to unsubscribe. Click on the
link at the very bottom of any OBRA message ( Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
), and send the email. No one has to do it for you, you get to do it
yourself.
Dave
On May 7, 2009, at 9:38 AM, Arn Allemand wrote:
> Please remove me from the list as well, apologies to everyone i cc'd.
>
> Arn Allemand
>
> 2009/5/7 Jim Williamson
> Help! Somebody please get me off this crazy list!!! I must get 10
> mssg a day this is crazy.
>
>
> Where do I direct my request for this??
>
>
> Jim Williamson
>
> Williamson - Johnson Company
>
> www.Williamson-Johnson.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: idahobikeracing-bounces@lists.cyclingutah.com [mailto:idahobikeracing-bounces@lists.cyclingutah.com
> ] On Behalf Of kwilliamson@micron.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 7:59 AM
> To: usac_campmanagers+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org; wsba@wsba.wsbaracing.com; Idahobikeracing@lists.cyclingutah.com
> Subject: Re: [Idahobikeracing] [OBRA Chat] FW: 2009 15/16 European
> Race Camp
>
>
> Please remove me from this dist list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kelly
>
>
> From: idahobikeracing-bounces@lists.cyclingutah.com [mailto:idahobikeracing-bounces@lists.cyclingutah.com
> ] On Behalf Of Melanie Rathe
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:16 PM
> To: Jim Anderson
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org; NW Cycling; Idahobikeracing@lists.cyclingutah.com
> Subject: Re: [Idahobikeracing] [OBRA Chat] FW: 2009 15/16 European
> Race Camp
>
> Just wanted to make sure everyone knows what an incredible
> opportunity these development camps are for juniors. Jacob Rathe
> and Ian Boswell, both Oregon juniors, attended one of these camps
> when they were 15; since then they have both raced internationally
> for the past 3 years! It is an excellent way to 'make yourself
> known' to the decision makers of who represents the US
> internationally.
>
> Don't miss out!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Anderson"
> To: obra@list.obra.org, "NW Cycling" , Idahobikeracing@lists.cyclingutah.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 10:18:40 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FW: 2009 15/16 European Race Camp
>
> See information below about European Camp for Jrs 15/16. Amazing
> experience....
>
> NW Athlete development camp (June 14-19th, 2009) will be a selecting
> factor. Www.nwcyclingcamp.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: "Sharp, Benjamin"
> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 18:10:17 -0600
> To:
> Cc:
> Conversation: 2009 15/16 European Race Camp
> Subject: 2009 15/16 European Race Camp
>
> Greetings,
> I wanted to make sure you were the first to receive the link to the
> 15/16 European Race Camp Application. The link can be found here:
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=mMbtK1Lm98E06g9ktSsEWw_3d_3d
>
> Thank you for your interest in the 2009 USA Cycling Boys 15/16
> European Race Camp program. This survey serves as a request to be
> included in the Race Camp tentatively scheduled for August 3 -
> August 25, 2009 (exact travel dates are TBD). Most likely the
> participants will depart from Bend, Oregon at the conclusion of the
> Junior Road National Championships. Riders will then return to their
> respective home airports at the conclusion of the trip. The purpose
> of the 15/16 European Race Camp is to create a learning opportunity
> for highly motivated young riders by exposing them to the subtleties
> and specific nuances of international competition and life in a
> foreign country.
>
> The cost for the camp is $4200* and includes travel, housing, food,
> and incidental expenses for the duration of the camp. Camp
> participants will be chaperoned by USA Cycling certified coach,
> Geoff Proctor. Geoff has vast experience taking young riders to
> Europe and has a wealth of knowledge relevant to the camp location.
> Geoff can be reached at Crosssportif@aol.com and 406.202.1057. Also,
> the staff in Europe includes Erly Beeuwsaert, former junior coach of
> Tom Boonen and Stijn Dijvolder. The camp will be based at the US
> National Team house in Izegem, Belgium. The race schedule includes
> several one-day races in Belgium. Camp activities will include bike
> handling drills, strategy sessions, general training rides and
> cultural activities. Camp participants in the past have included
> current Junior National Team representatives, Nathan Brown, Taylor
> Kuphaldt, Jacob Rathe, Alex Battles-Wood, Lawson Craddock, Charlie
> Avis, and Adam Leibovitz.
>
> Selections will be based on survey responses, athlete development
> camp testing results, and local results. Favor will be given to
> athletes that have demonstrated an ability to work and race at a
> very high level in the United States.
>
> Application deadline is June 26 ,2009, midnight PST. Applications
> received after Midnight, Friday June 26, 2009 will not be considered.
>
> All applicants must purchase a UCI international racing license and
> have a valid, up-to-date passport.
>
> Winning applicants will be notified June 29, 2009 and full payment
> will be due Wednesday, July 8, 2009, with flights ticketed on July
> 10, 2008.
>
> *please note that based on the volatility of the global economy,
> this figure could change.
>
>
> If you have any questions, be sure to let me know!
>
>
> Benjamin Sharp
> USA Cycling Junior Endurance Manager
> 210 USA Cycling Point
> Suite 100
> Colorado Springs, CO 80919
>
> 001.719.209.8212 (mobile)
> 001.719.434.4226 (office)
> 001.719.434.4326 (fax)
> bsharp@usacycling.org
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE:This message contains confidential information and
> is intended only for the individual named herein. If you are not the
> herein named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute copy
> or otherwise make use of this e-mail. Please notify the sender
> immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake,
> and delete this e-mail from your system.
>
> P Please do not print this e-mail unless necessary
>
>
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "USAC_campmanagers" group.
> To post to this group, send email to usac_campmanagers@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to usac_campmanagers+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/usac_campmanagers?hl=en
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>
>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date:
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>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Idahobikeracing mailing list
> Idahobikeracing@lists.cyclingutah.com
> http://lists.cyclingutah.com/listinfo.cgi/idahobikeracing-cyclingutah.com
> http://idahobikeracing.org
> http://www.cyclingutah.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> From: obra-request@list.obra.org
> Subject: OBRA Digest, Vol 32, Issue 24
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:00:01 -0700
>
> Send OBRA mailing list submissions to
> obra@list.obra.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> obra-request@list.obra.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> obra-owner@list.obra.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OBRA digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Wheels for sale (Thom Kneeland)
> 2. A new look at the TT (Brian)
> 3. Cyclocross (T. Kenji Sugahara)
> 4. Re: A new look at the TT (Joe Cipale)
> 5. Results Fast Twitch Friday 8.15.08 (Bike Central)
> 6. FS: Cervelo P3 Carbon Time Trail Bike 56cm $2700 OBO
> (Damarcus Maximus)
> 7. FS:New Mavic Ksyrium Tubular $500, Park PRS-3 Bike stand $225
> (Damarcus Maximus)
> 8. Re: A new look at the TT (Erik)
> 9. Re: FS: Cervelo P3 Carbon Time Trail Bike 56cm $2700 OBO
> (Damarcus Maximus)
> 10. Re: A new look at the TT (david baker)
> 11. Time Trial Divisions (Rob Hughes)
> 12. Re: TT, categories, and beer for lunch (Brian)
> 13. 2008 campagnolo Record hubs (Jason A. Skelton)
> 14. Tuesday Track Schedule (Steve @TruesdaleImports.com)
> 15. ALERT: STOLEN CARBON LEOPOLD BEING HELD (ac)
> 16. ALERT: Stolen Carbon Leopard being held (arlo)
> 17. Re: Time Trial Divisions (gschreckchat@comcast.net)
> 18. Re: TT, categories, and beer for lunch (Joe Cipale)
> 19. Re: TT, categories, and beer for lunch (Chris Alling)
> 20. Re: TT, categories, and beer for lunch (Martin Baker)
> 21. Re: TT, categories, and beer for lunch (Thomas Hoffman)
> 22. Tuesday night masters track racing (Jeff Tedder & Shari)
> 23. Wheels for sale (Thom Kneeland)
> 24. Re: **** X-spasm **** RE: TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> (Joe Cipale)
> 25. of time trials and categories (uma)
> 26. Photos (EDWARD NORTON)
> 27. Cyclist Injured in Hit on Run Last Thursday August 14th
> (Pete Conklin)
> 28. Results Mon PIR (david hart)
> 29. WTB: kids "stoker" kit & Crank Shortners (Brian ecker)
> 30. Re: TT Categories discussion... (Quenton)
> 31. WTB Single Speed Cross Bike Large or XL (or Recommendations
> for Same) (NW Cyclist)
> 32. *important* Results MON PIR (david hart)
> 33. Re: Entry Fees for Swan Island Crit (Geri Bossen)
> 34. Re: Entry Fees for Swan Island Crit (Joel Morrissette)
> 35. Cycling Massage in Salem area (Evan Plews)
> 36. Yakima Gift Certificate (Godfrey,David)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:26:53 -0700
> From: Thom Kneeland
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Wheels for sale
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <48a9ccfd99f8e_1c315a0d8d843f04294b@lizard.tmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hey folks. I need to make room in the garage. I have three sets of carbon wheels I'm selling. One set of all carbon clinchers and two carbon tubulars.
>
> The clinchers-
> 1.Leo Elements 38mm all carbon clincher. These were made for a Euro company that canceled their order and they wound up in the US. They have the same rim as a Williams carbon clincher. It's 38mm deep and laced up to American Classic designed hubs through bladed spokes. The wheels weigh in at 1500grams with skewers and rim tape. I have about 20 rides on them and they are straight and true. They come with wheel bags, Conti GP3000 tires mounted, skewers, and carbon specific pads and holders. $600 and no shipping costs.
>
> The tubbies-
> 1. Pro-Lite Gavia 50T. Full carbon 50mm deep tubulars. Pro-Lite makes wheels for Reynolds, FSA, Ritchey and is their house brand. These are stiff and nice riding wheels with only about 5 crits raced on these and never flatted or crashed. They come with wheel bags, skewers, and carbon specific brake pads. $650 and no shipping costs.
>
> 2. Planet X 50mm ProCarbon Custom- 50mm deep carbon rims laced via Sapim spokes to American Classic hubs. These were handbuilt LA for Planet X. They come with wheelbags and carbon brakes pads. Never been glued up or ridden. $600 and no shipping costs.
>
> All the wheels are Shimano/Sram compatible.
> $1500 takes all three pair.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:37:37 -0700
> From: Brian
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] A new look at the TT
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <48a9cf8114588_51aa15afc18b3edc4c0@lizard.tmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> I think Mr. Hughes made a really good point about the specialization of TTs, and in questioning how they fit in with road racing. It seems that they really don't fit in at all. Time trialing has really evolved into its own discipline, and it's time for the more progressive racing organizations (i.e. not the UCI) to realize and accommodate this fact. Separate TTs from road racing and get rid of categories.
>
>
> With advances in equipment in the last decade, there's really no point in showing up to a TT without the proper equipment. Things have become so specialized, and the riding position so altered from what is used on a road bike, that altogether different muscles now must be developed for time trialing. This is especially hard on newer racers who haven't been around long enough to buy a dedicated TT rig, disc wheels, and darth vader helmet. The point is that it is no longer a question of taking the rider out of the peloton and seeing what he can do on his own. It is now a question of who has focused more energy on specialization.
>
> I think this is especially relevant to what we count as stage racing. While we are including TTs, we might as well throw in some track racing, too. And how about a cyclocross leg? And what's with criteriums? What ever happened to the concept of going from point A to point B, and sectioning off the route into manageable chunks or stages? Stage races have become nothing more than timed omniums, and every organizer wants his to be a mini Tour de France. Save the TTs and crits for omniums. But have omniums include track and cyclocross too.
>
> As far as categories, I say get rid of them. We fool ourselves into believing we have achieved something by beating a score of riders we have selected as being of similar (but dominitable) skill level. The category might as well be, "everyone slower than me". Categories are themselves paradoxical, rewarding marginal improvement but upgrading those who improve too much. Racing yourself has the most worth, followed by racing whoever is next to you at the finish line (yes I advocate sprinting for 20th), and finally maybe there is some value in comparing yourself to everyone who races. But if we are honest with ourselves, I think we would realize there is very little value in a category.
>
>
>
>
> Robert Hughes wrote:
>
>
> I regret that my post came across as "sour grapes", and I never mentioned sandbagging. The person you refer to did nothing wrong, he couldn't compete in a different category because the current upgrade rules prevented him from using his TT results to upgrade. This is as it should be because pack racing requires skills and experience that cannot be obtained by racing in time trials. My observation is this: since TT results have no bearing on road race upgrades (as it should be), why should we use road race categories to describe the competitive level of a time trialist? Road race, track, mountain bike, and 'cross categories are designed to encourage competition and to create races where riders are relatively evenly matched on experience and fitness. Why not have the same for the time trials? Using road categories for the TT is just slightly better than arbitrariness.
>
> Furthermore, why is it that whenever someone examines the status quo, the vast majority of responses are either sarcastic or belittle the post or author. Is there a better way to categorize the TT? Maybe no category is the answer. It such a different form of racing with completely unique equipment, perhaps it should be categorized separately from road racing, like 'cross or track.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:38:25 -0700
> From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclocross
> To: OBRA List
> Message-ID: <800E6121-0080-43DF-BADA-68C758963C89@obra.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Cyclocross season is fast approaching- and for us, it's a very busy
> time of year.
>
> We are always looking for help at the races- with the ever increasing
> popularity of cyclocross we are are in need of help with scoring.
>
> If you are interested in helping out, there will be trainings at the
> Kruger's Farm Kermesses. We are also requesting that all teams send
> representatives to be trained.
>
> Please contact Candi if you plan on attending one of the races.
>
> Thanks!
>
> T. Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> 503-302-4935
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:44:08 -0700
> From: "Joe Cipale"
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A new look at the TT
> To: Brian
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <200808181944.m7IJi8tb015471@sapphire.spiritone.com>
>
> My suggestion:
>
> If you dont like how the categories/specialities fit under OBRA/USACycling, then take your ball and go start your own racing organization.
>
> ~turning off OBRA for the rest of the year so as not to be flooded with mindless rants~
>
> Joe
>
> Brian wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I think Mr. Hughes made a really good point about the specialization of TTs, and in questioning how they fit in with road racing. It seems that they really don't fit in at all. Time trialing has really evolved into its own discipline, and it's time for the more progressive racing organizations (i.e. not the UCI) to realize and accommodate this fact. Separate TTs from road racing and get rid of categories.
> >
> >
> > With advances in equipment in the last decade, there's really no point in showing up to a TT without the proper equipment. Things have become so specialized, and the riding position so altered from what is used on a road bike, that altogether different muscles now must be developed for time trialing. This is especially hard on newer racers who haven't been around long enough to buy a dedicated TT rig, disc wheels, and darth vader helmet. The point is that it is no longer a question of taking the rider out of the peloton and seeing what he can do on his own. It is now a question of who has focused more energy on specialization.
> >
> > I think this is especially relevant to what we count as stage racing. While we are including TTs, we might as well throw in some track racing, too. And how about a cyclocross leg? And what's with criteriums? What ever happened to the concept of going from point A to point B, and sectioning off the route into manageable chunks or stages? Stage races have become nothing more than timed omniums, and every organizer wants his to be a mini Tour de France. Save the TTs and crits for omniums. But have omniums include track and cyclocross too.
> >
> > As far as categories, I say get rid of them. We fool ourselves into believing we have achieved something by beating a score of riders we have selected as being of similar (but dominitable) skill level. The category might as well be, "everyone slower than me". Categories are themselves paradoxical, rewarding marginal improvement but upgrading those who improve too much. Racing yourself has the most worth, followed by racing whoever is next to you at the finish line (yes I advocate sprinting for 20th), and finally maybe there is some value in comparing yourself to everyone who races. But if we are honest with ourselves, I think we would realize there is very little value in a category.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Hughes wrote:
> >
> >
> > I regret that my post came across as "sour grapes", and I never mentioned sandbagging. The person you refer to did nothing wrong, he couldn't compete in a different category because the current upgrade rules prevented him from using his TT results to upgrade. This is as it should be because pack racing requires skills and experience that cannot be obtained by racing in time trials. My observation is this: since TT results have no bearing on road race upgrades (as it should be), why should we use road race categories to describe the competitive level of a time trialist? Road race, track, mountain bike, and 'cross categories are designed to encourage competition and to create races where riders are relatively evenly matched on experience and fitness. Why not have the same for the time trials? Using road categories for the TT is just slightly better than arbitrariness.
> >
> > Furthermore, why is it that whenever someone examines the status quo, the vast majority of responses are either sarcastic or belittle the post or author. Is there a better way to categorize the TT? Maybe no category is the answer. It such a different form of racing with completely unique equipment, perhaps it should be categorized separately from road racing, like 'cross or track.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:51:55 -0700
> From: Bike Central
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Results Fast Twitch Friday 8.15.08
> To: "obra@list.obra.org"
> Message-ID: <48A9D2DB.9030000@bike-central.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> A Sprint
> 1 McLaughry Stephen Bike Central
> 1 1731 Mansker Kevin
> 1 609 Godfrey Mark Bike Central
> 4 945 Brush Walton River City Bicycles
>
> B Sprint
> 1 1756 Deardorff Chris BIKE
> 1 1705 Abers Brian Bike Central
> 1 2141 Frechen Nathan Team Beer
> 4 1755 Culpepper Clint Team Beer
>
> C Sprint
> 1 284 Featheringill Jen Bike Central
> 2 2575 Guernsey Ben
> 3 362 Bigwood Bob Portland Velo
> 4 1198 Conley Shaun XXX Athletics
>
> D Sprint
> 1 2191 Carder Jorge Team Beer
> 2 2810 Cobb Anissa
> 3 297 Hook Camille Bike Central
> 4 1567 Pico Mark
>
> Novice Women
> 1 2815 McCarthy Kristin
> 2 429 Larson Elena
>
> Cat 5 Men
> 1 1420 Garbellano Jeremy Life Cycle
> 2 1249 Riley Devin Ironclad
> 3 2672 Fawcett Corey
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Damarcus Maximus
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Cervelo P3 Carbon Time Trail Bike 56cm $2700
> OBO
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <583703.78151.qm@web50710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> or sell is 2007 Cervelo P3 Carbon time trail bike, size 56cm. The bike
> was riden in two time trails, has 200 to 300 mile on the bike. In new
> condition. The bike retail new for $4500. Can be seen on Cervelo's
> website at http://www.cervelo.com/bikes.aspx?bike=P3C2008
>
>
>
>
> The bike on Cervelo's website is the 2008 model, the 2007 model is the
> same except the paint scheme is a little different. Though I am Not
> selling with any wheels.
>
>
>
>
> The compenents are:
>
>
> Dura Ace front and Rear Derailleur
>
>
> Shift Levers: Shimano DuraAce Bar-ends
>
>
> Crankset: FSA SLK Light MegaExo Carbon 175cm
>
>
> Bottom Bracket: FSA SLK MegaExo
>
>
> FSA Headset
>
>
> Fork: Carbon Wolf TT
>
>
> Seatpost: Cerv?lo aero carbon
>
>
> Brake Calipers: Cerv?lo Mach 2
>
>
> Brake Levers: Dia Compe
>
>
> Stem: ITM
>
>
> Saddle: Selle Italia Cerv?lo TT special
>
> The Bike can be seen at
> http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/bik/802232781.html
>
> -Marcus (503) 679-0294
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:11:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Damarcus Maximus
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS:New Mavic Ksyrium Tubular $500, Park PRS-3
> Bike stand $225
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <649021.74154.qm@web50709.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have for sell a set of brand new MAVIC 2007 Ksyrium SSC SL Tubular
> wheels (shimano) for $500, New Park PRS-3 bike stand for $225 that has
> the 90 pound base and retails for $430
>
>
>
> Can be seen on Craigslist at
> http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/bik/802267483.html
>
>
> -Marcus (503) 679-0294
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:17:14 -0700
> From: Erik
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A new look at the TT
> To: Brian ,
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote that.
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:37:37 -0700
> > From: brian.a.mack@gmail.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] A new look at the TT
> >
> >
> >
> > I think Mr. Hughes made a really good point about the specialization of TTs, and in questioning how they fit in with road racing. It seems that they really don't fit in at all. Time trialing has really evolved into its own discipline, and it's time for the more progressive racing organizations (i.e. not the UCI) to realize and accommodate this fact. Separate TTs from road racing and get rid of categories.
> >
> >
> > With advances in equipment in the last decade, there's really no point in showing up to a TT without the proper equipment. Things have become so specialized, and the riding position so altered from what is used on a road bike, that altogether different muscles now must be developed for time trialing. This is especially hard on newer racers who haven't been around long enough to buy a dedicated TT rig, disc wheels, and darth vader helmet. The point is that it is no longer a question of taking the rider out of the peloton and seeing what he can do on his own. It is now a question of who has focused more energy on specialization.
> >
> > I think this is especially relevant to what we count as stage racing. While we are including TTs, we might as well throw in some track racing, too. And how about a cyclocross leg? And what's with criteriums? What ever happened to the concept of going from point A to point B, and sectioning off the route into manageable chunks or stages? Stage races have become nothing more than timed omniums, and every organizer wants his to be a mini Tour de France. Save the TTs and crits for omniums. But have omniums include track and cyclocross too.
> >
> > As far as categories, I say get rid of them. We fool ourselves into believing we have achieved something by beating a score of riders we have selected as being of similar (but dominitable) skill level. The category might as well be, "everyone slower than me". Categories are themselves paradoxical, rewarding marginal improvement but upgrading those who improve too much. Racing yourself has the most worth, followed by racing whoever is next to you at the finish line (yes I advocate sprinting for 20th), and finally maybe there is some value in comparing yourself to everyone who races. But if we are honest with ourselves, I think we would realize there is very little value in a category.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Hughes wrote:
> >
> >
> > I regret that my post came across as "sour grapes", and I never mentioned sandbagging. The person you refer to did nothing wrong, he couldn't compete in a different category because the current upgrade rules prevented him from using his TT results to upgrade. This is as it should be because pack racing requires skills and experience that cannot be obtained by racing in time trials. My observation is this: since TT results have no bearing on road race upgrades (as it should be), why should we use road race categories to describe the competitive level of a time trialist? Road race, track, mountain bike, and 'cross categories are designed to encourage competition and to create races where riders are relatively evenly matched on experience and fitness. Why not have the same for the time trials? Using road categories for the TT is just slightly better than arbitrariness.
> >
> > Furthermore, why is it that whenever someone examines the status quo, the vast majority of responses are either sarcastic or belittle the post or author. Is there a better way to categorize the TT? Maybe no category is the answer. It such a different form of racing with completely unique equipment, perhaps it should be categorized separately from road racing, like 'cross or track.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how.
> http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:21:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Damarcus Maximus
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FS: Cervelo P3 Carbon Time Trail Bike 56cm
> $2700 OBO
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <416046.74472.qm@web50712.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/18/08, Damarcus Maximus wrote:
>
> From: Damarcus Maximus
> Subject: FS: Cervelo P3 Carbon Time Trail Bike 56cm $2700 OBO
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 12:53 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For sell is 2007 Cervelo P3 Carbon time trail bike, size 56cm. The bike was riden in two time trails, has 200 to 300 mile on the bike. In new condition. The bike retail new for $4500. Can be seen on Cervelo's website at http://www.cervelo.com/bikes.aspx?bike=P3C2008
>
> The bike on Cervelo's website is the 2008 model, the 2007 model is the same except the paint scheme is a little different. Though I am Not selling with any wheels.
>
>
> The Bike can be seen on craigslist at:
> http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/bik/802232781.html
>
> -Marcus (503) 679-0294
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:20:03 -0700
> From: "david baker"
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A new look at the TT
> To: "Erik" , "Brian" ,
>
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> You know I kind of disagree with brian also, but damn that is funny stuff, and actually makes some sense.Rewarding marginal improvement by upgrading those who improve a lot! Sprinting for 20th, I know I do that, as dumb as it is. And really, why do they lump time trials in the stage races, because they do it that way in Europe? So what, lets do better. Everyone's points on both sides of this issue are pretty valid.
> I think the bottom line is, as long as we ARE racing all is well.
> Lets ban flat tires! We could all agree on that!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Erik
> To: Brian ; obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] A new look at the TT
>
>
> Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote that.
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:37:37 -0700
> > From: brian.a.mack@gmail.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] A new look at the TT
> >
> >
> >
> > I think Mr. Hughes made a really good point about the specialization of TTs, and in questioning how they fit in with road racing. It seems that they really don't fit in at all. Time trialing has really evolved into its own discipline, and it's time for the more progressive racing organizations (i.e. not the UCI) to realize and accommodate this fact. Separate TTs from road racing and get rid of categories.
> >
> >
> > With advances in equipment in the last decade, there's really no point in showing up to a TT without the proper equipment. Things have become so specialized, and the riding position so altered from what is used on a road bike, that altogether different muscles now must be developed for time trialing. This is especially hard on newer racers who haven't been around long enough to buy a dedicated TT rig, disc wheels, and darth vader helmet. The point is that it is no longer a question of taking the rider out of the peloton and seeing what he can do on his own. It is now a question of who has focused more energy on specialization.
> >
> > I think this is especially relevant to what we count as stage racing. While we are including TTs, we might as well throw in some track racing, too. And how about a cyclocross leg? And what's with criteriums? What ever happened to the concept of going from point A to point B, and sectioning off the route into manageable chunks or stages? Stage races have become nothing more than timed omniums, and every organizer wants his to be a mini Tour de France. Save the TTs and crits for omniums. But have omniums include track and cyclocross too.
> >
> > As far as categories, I say get rid of them. We fool ourselves into believing we have achieved something by beating a score of riders we have selected as being of similar (but dominitable) skill level. The category might as well be, "everyone slower than me". Categories are themselves paradoxical, rewarding marginal improvement but upgrading those who improve too much. Racing yourself has the most worth, followed by racing whoever is next to you at the finish line (yes I advocate sprinting for 20th), and finally maybe there is some value in comparing yourself to everyone who races. But if we are honest with ourselves, I think we would realize there is very little value in a category.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Hughes wrote:
> >
> >
> > I regret that my post came across as "sour grapes", and I never mentioned sandbagging. The person you refer to did nothing wrong, he couldn't compete in a different category because the current upgrade rules prevented him from using his TT results to upgrade. This is as it should be because pack racing requires skills and experience that cannot be obtained by racing in time trials. My observation is this: since TT results have no bearing on road race upgrades (as it should be), why should we use road race categories to describe the competitive level of a time trialist? Road race, track, mountain bike, and 'cross categories are designed to encourage competition and to create races where riders are relatively evenly matched on experience and fitness. Why not have the same for the time trials? Using road categories for the TT is just slightly better than arbitrariness.
> >
> > Furthermore, why is it that whenever someone examines the status quo, the vast majority of responses are either sarcastic or belittle the post or author. Is there a better way to categorize the TT? Maybe no category is the answer. It such a different form of racing with completely unique equipment, perhaps it should be categorized separately from road racing, like 'cross or track.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:20:11 -0700
> From: Rob Hughes
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Time Trial Divisions
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <48a9f59b9e8c8_1c315a0dc4a619443278@lizard.tmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Ok, thanks for the constructive criticism. I 'll happily refrain from further posts on this sunject.
> Rob
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:22:21 -0700
> From: Brian
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <48a9f61d15de4_1c315a0dbcf93604335f@lizard.tmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
>
> No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.
>
> I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its own institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that, this post isn't for you.
>
> The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they do it in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it has here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of fair competition and success.
>
> And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.
>
> As for time trialing, I do think that it is a completely distinct discipline than road racing. I also think it' a serious flaw in stage race design that it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply for the sake of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it, TT has little to do with the actual concept of a stage race.
>
> Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more attractive purchases and encourage using them more.
>
> And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood Cycling Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a min. 5k dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking he does.
>
> Thanks for asking me to clarify that. Now for some beer...
>
>
>
>
>
> Erik wrote:
>
> Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote that.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:26:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Jason A. Skelton"
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] 2008 campagnolo Record hubs
> To: obra
> Message-ID: <544275.50523.qm@web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the new, re-designed campy hubs? Internet rumors and commentary are that the new hubs are inferior to the older campy stuff. Does anyone have any experience or insights to offer?
>
> I am a committed campy shifter and need to know.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jason Skelton
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Steve @TruesdaleImports.com"
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday Track Schedule
> To: OBRA
> Message-ID: <812051.1577.qm@web54101.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Masters State Track Championships and BBQ are less than two weeks away!
> Tomorrow night we will have your last chance to prepare for your 500's, Kilo's and Team (Olympic) Sprints. That is the order we will run things in too.
> So get a team (3 for men/mixed and 2 for women) together and get on over to the track.
> Registration opens at 5pm and racing starts at 6:30pm
> ?
> The following week is being run by Andrea Jones and is a fundraiser for her Senior Project. More info here?.
>
> See you at the track.
> Steve Truesdale?
> Truesdale Imports?
> 503-232-1704
> steve@truesdaleimports.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:51:51 -0700
> From: ac
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] ALERT: STOLEN CARBON LEOPOLD BEING HELD
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <48a9fd072ebc_1c015b7a2c93e884694b@lizard.tmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I just caught some guy with a stolen leopold full carbon bike. Cops showed up and as the guy didn't have the key on him (he stole the lock too) they couldn't arrest him. He is lurking in the neighborhood but I am downtown standing next to the bike and have put my own lock on it. Call me at 541 490 0625 asap if you know who owns this bike.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:00:26 -0700
> From: arlo
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] ALERT: Stolen Carbon Leopard being held
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <48a9ff0a4ad15_1c315a0dcb83c78436fe@lizard.tmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I just saw a guy downtown (Naito and SW Yamhill) walking with a stolen carbon Leopard. He looked sketchy, and when I ran him down he clearly had stolen this bike. It has a front flat so may have come from an open house or office and he appears to have stolen the lock too- he locked it up when the cops showed up and they couldn't find the key. I locked it up as well with my own lock. If anyone knows who owns this bike, please have them call 541 490 0625 ASAP.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:04:26 +0000
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Time Trial Divisions
> To: "david baker" , "Robert Hughes"
> ,
> Message-ID:
> <081820082304.12809.48A9FFFA0000F96B0000320922155517249B0E080C050C0A9D080C9C09@comcast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On that basis, lets give everyone a medal so everyone can feel good about themselves. It can be like summer camp or some of the recreational rides. Cycling is the only sport that I know where people become so obsessed with medals and winning a category instead of looking at their relative performance to their past performances and others. The race should be about competing and doing your best, bringing a piece of hardware home. Nice if it happens, but it should not be the focus. Slicing the categories so thin that nearly everyone is in the medal hunt only makes winning less meaningful (i.e your example-Mtn Bike races).
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "david baker"
>
> Probably the same difference that it makes in mt biking where it is also a timed event in which your competitors don't affect your time.
> We get more winners and there fore we generally have more FUN! Otherwise only the top three pros win at any event. Boring. Less participation.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: Robert Hughes ; obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 8:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Time Trial Divisions
>
>
> Since a TT is a timed event and the other competitors in your field have no effect on your time, what difference does it really make?
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Robert Hughes
>
> > I regret that my post came across as "sour grapes", and I never mentioned
> > sandbagging. The person you refer to did nothing wrong, he couldn't compete in
> > a different category because the current upgrade rules prevented him from using
> > his TT results to upgrade. This is as it should be because pack racing requires
> > skills and experience that cannot be obtained by racing in time trials. My
> > observation is this: since TT results have no bearing on road race upgrades (as
> > it should be), why should we use road race categories to describe the
> > competitive level of a time trialist? Road race, track, mountain bike, and
> > 'cross categories are designed to encourage competition and to create races
> > where riders are re lative ly evenly matched on experience and fitness. Why not
> > have the same for the time trials? Using road categories for the TT is just
> > slightly better than arbitrariness.
> >
> > Furthermore, why is it that whenever someone examines the status quo, the vast
> > majority of responses are either sarcastic or belittle the post or author. Is
> > there a better way to categorize the TT? Maybe no category is the answer. It
> > such a different form of racing with completely unique equipment, perhaps it
> > should be categorized separately from road racing, like 'cross or track.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:20:58 -0700
> From: "Joe Cipale"
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> To: Brian
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <200808182320.m7INKwEq021922@sapphire.spiritone.com>
>
> And people bitch about USACycling... Fer chrissakes. There will never be
> a completely 'fair' scoring scheme. This is not kindergarten where we
> give everyone a ribbon for participating. Take the G**D*** touchy-feely
> 'My Child is an Honor Student at Who-gives-a-Damn Middle School' and go
> away.
>
> Newsflash: Life sucks sometimes. I am not blessed as much athletic prowess as Michael Phelpes (attempt at being topical) or Lance, or even the lowly bench
> warmer on any given professional sports team.
>
> I dislike the fact that no matter where I go and race, I have to compete
> against Harry Phinney, David Zimbleman, or George Schreck. Oh booo-hooo for
> me. Give them their own category and create a special one for Joe so I
> can always bring home a g-damn medal.
>
> If you want to win, then damnit, get on your bike and ride.
>
> Now THAT is a rant worth posting to OBRA!
>
>
> Brian wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.
> >
> > I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its own institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that, this post isn't for you.
> >
> > The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they do it in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it has here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of fair competition and success.
> >
> > And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.
> >
> > As for time trialing, I do think that it is a completely distinct discipline than road racing. I also think it' a serious flaw in stage race design that it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply for the sake of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it, TT has little to do with the actual concept of a stage race.
> >
> > Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more attractive purchases and encourage using them more.
> >
> > And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood Cycling Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a min. 5k dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking he does.
> >
> > Thanks for asking me to clarify that. Now for some beer...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Erik wrote:
> >
> > Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote that.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:34:02 -0700
> From: Chris Alling
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> To:
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I will be happy to vote to give Joe his own catagory.
>
> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:20:58 -0700> From: joec@aracnet.com> To: brian.a.mack@gmail.com> CC: obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch> > And people bitch about USACycling... Fer chrissakes. There will never be> a completely 'fair' scoring scheme. This is not kindergarten where we> give everyone a ribbon for participating. Take the G**D*** touchy-feely> 'My Child is an Honor Student at Who-gives-a-Damn Middle School' and go> away.> > Newsflash: Life sucks sometimes. I am not blessed as much athletic prowess as Michael Phelpes (attempt at being topical) or Lance, or even the lowly bench> warmer on any given professional sports team.> > I dislike the fact that no matter where I go and race, I have to compete> against Harry Phinney, David Zimbleman, or George Schreck. Oh booo-hooo for> me. Give them their own category and create a special one for Joe so I> can always bring home a g-damn medal.> > If you want to win, then damnit, get on y
> our bike and ride.> > Now THAT is a rant worth posting to OBRA! > > > Brian wrote:> > > > > > > > > No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.> > > > I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its own institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that, this post isn't for you.> > > > The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they do it in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it has here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of fair competition and success.> > > > And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.> > > > As for time trialing, I do think that it
> is a completely distinct discipline than road racing. I also think it' a serious flaw in stage race design that it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply for the sake of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it, TT has little to do with the actual concept of a stage race. > > > > Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more attractive purchases and encourage using them more.> > > > And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood Cycling Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a min. 5k dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking he does.> > > > Thanks for aski
> ng me to clarify that. Now for some beer...> > > > > > > > > > > > Erik wrote:> > > > Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote that. > > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _________________________________________________________________
> See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts.
> http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:44:07 -0700
> From: "Martin Baker"
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> To: "'Chris Alling'" ,
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <20080818234815.E847E46149B@list.obra.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> .and George.
>
>
>
> ;-)
>
> _____
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Alling
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:34 PM
> To: joec@aracnet.com
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
>
>
>
>
> I will be happy to vote to give Joe his own catagory.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:20:58 -0700
> > From: joec@aracnet.com
> > To: brian.a.mack@gmail.com
> > CC: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> >
> > And people bitch about USACycling... Fer chrissakes. There will never be
> > a completely 'fair' scoring scheme. This is not kindergarten where we
> > give everyone a ribbon for participating. Take the G**D*** touchy-feely
> > 'My Child is an Honor Student at Who-gives-a-Damn Middle School' and go
> > away.
> >
> > Newsflash: Life sucks sometimes. I am not blessed as much athletic prowess
> as Michael Phelpes (attempt at being topical) or Lance, or even the lowly
> bench
> > warmer on any given professional sports team.
> >
> > I dislike the fact that no matter where I go and race, I have to compete
> > against Harry Phinney, David Zimbleman, or George Schreck. Oh booo-hooo
> for
> > me. Give them their own category and create a special one for Joe so I
> > can always bring home a g-damn medal.
> >
> > If you want to win, then damnit, get on your bike and ride.
> >
> > Now THAT is a rant worth posting to OBRA!
> >
> >
> > Brian wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.
> > >
> > > I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its
> own institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that,
> this post isn't for you.
> > >
> > > The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they
> do it in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it
> has here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of
> fair competition and success.
> > >
> > > And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it
> would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and
> beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium
> and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But
> that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.
> > >
> > > As for time trialing, I do think that it is a completely distinct
> discipline than road racing. I also think it' a serious flaw in stage race
> design that it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply
> for the sake of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it,
> TT has little to do with the actual concept of a stage race.
> > >
> > > Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the
> garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate
> discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more
> attractive purchases and encourage using them more.
> > >
> > > And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a
> subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists
> entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood Cycling
> Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a min. 5k
> dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking he does.
> > >
> > > Thanks for asking me to clarify that. Now for some beer...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Erik wrote:
> > >
> > > Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote
> that.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _____
>
> See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts.
> Check It Out!
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: http://list.obra.org/posts/obra/attachments/20080818/b8280377/attachment.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:54:05 -0700
> From: "Thomas Hoffman"
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> To: "'Martin Baker'" , "'Chris Alling'"
> ,
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <010901c9018d$b3afcff0$17d1a8c0@IBM7F4965EFAF1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> George is already in his own Category.
>
> Thomas Hoffman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Martin Baker
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:44 PM
> To: 'Chris Alling'; joec@aracnet.com
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
>
> .and George.
>
>
>
> ;-)
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Alling
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:34 PM
> To: joec@aracnet.com
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
>
>
>
>
> I will be happy to vote to give Joe his own catagory.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:20:58 -0700
> > From: joec@aracnet.com
> > To: brian.a.mack@gmail.com
> > CC: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> >
> > And people bitch about USACycling... Fer chrissakes. There will never be
> > a completely 'fair' scoring scheme. This is not kindergarten where we
> > give everyone a ribbon for participating. Take the G**D*** touchy-feely
> > 'My Child is an Honor Student at Who-gives-a-Damn Middle School' and go
> > away.
> >
> > Newsflash: Life sucks sometimes. I am not blessed as much athletic prowess
> as Michael Phelpes (attempt at being topical) or Lance, or even the lowly
> bench
> > warmer on any given professional sports team.
> >
> > I dislike the fact that no matter where I go and race, I have to compete
> > against Harry Phinney, David Zimbleman, or George Schreck. Oh booo-hooo
> for
> > me. Give them their own category and create a special one for Joe so I
> > can always bring home a g-damn medal.
> >
> > If you want to win, then damnit, get on your bike and ride.
> >
> > Now THAT is a rant worth posting to OBRA!
> >
> >
> > Brian wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.
> > >
> > > I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its
> own institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that,
> this post isn't for you.
> > >
> > > The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they
> do it in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it
> has here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of
> fair competition and success.
>
> > >
> > > And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it
> would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and
> beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium
> and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But
> that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.
> > >
> > > As for time trialing, I do think that it is a completely distinct
> discipline than road racing. I also think it' a serious flaw in stage race
> design that it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply
> for the sake of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it,
> TT has little to do with the actual concept of a stage race.
> > >
> > > Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the
> garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate
> discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more
> attractive purchases and encourage using them more.
> > >
> > > And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a
> subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists
> entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood Cycling
> Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a min. 5k
> dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking he does.
> > >
> > > Thanks for asking me to clarify that. Now for some beer...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Erik wrote:
> > >
> > > Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote
> that.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ________________________________
>
> See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts.
> Check It Out!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:19:03 -0700
> From: "Jeff Tedder & Shari"
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday night masters track racing
> To: "Thomas Hoffman" , "'Martin Baker'"
> , "'Chris Alling'" ,
>
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <035301c90191$30231120$0200a8c0@D3JV3G61>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Anybody planning on racing on Tuesday that wants to do the Team Sprint and
> does not have a team let me know....I will be there doing the Kilo but have
> never done the Team Sprint and would like to give it a go....Thanks
>
> Jeff Tedder
> Hammer Nutrition Products
> Solid Core Training
> 503-246-2388
> cell 503-473-7650
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:22:30 -0700
> From: Thom Kneeland
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Wheels for sale
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <48aa124681736_3da01556aab212e8157b@lizard.tmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hey every one. The wheels are gone. Thanks.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:37:20 -0700
> From: "Joe Cipale"
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] **** X-spasm **** RE: TT, categories, and
> beer for lunch
> To: Chris Alling
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <200808190037.m7J0bK0C017814@sapphire.spiritone.com>
>
> I will allow you into my Cat CHris. I need some competetion for a little bit before I ride off with my medal... :^)
>
> Chris Alling wrote:
>
> > I will be happy to vote to give Joe his own catagory.
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:20:58 -0700> From: joec@aracnet.com> To: brian.a.mack@gmail.com> CC: obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch> > And people bitch about USACycling... Fer chrissakes. There will never be> a completely 'fair' scoring scheme. This is not kindergarten where we> give everyone a ribbon for participating. Take the G**D*** touchy-feely> 'My Child is an Honor Student at Who-gives-a-Damn Middle School' and go> away.> > Newsflash: Life sucks sometimes. I am not blessed as much athletic prowess as Michael Phelpes (attempt at being topical) or Lance, or even the lowly bench> warmer on any given professional sports team.> > I dislike the fact that no matter where I go and race, I have to compete> against Harry Phinney, David Zimbleman, or George Schreck. Oh booo-hooo for> me. Give them their own category and create a special one for Joe so I> can always bring home a g-damn medal.> > If you want to win, then damnit, get o!
> n your bike and ride.> > Now THAT is a rant worth posting to OBRA! > > > Brian wrote:> > > > > > > > > No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.> > > > I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its own institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that, this post isn't for you.> > > > The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they do it in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it has here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of fair competition and success.> > > > And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.> > > > As for time trialing, I do think that!
> it is a completely distinct discipline than road racing. I al!
> so think it' a serious flaw in stage race design that it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply for the sake of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it, TT has little to do with the actual concept of a stage race. > > > > Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more attractive purchases and encourage using them more.> > > > And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood Cycling Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a min. 5k dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking he does.> > > > Thanks for asking me to clarify that. Now for some beer...> > > > > > > >!
> > > > > Erik wrote:> > > > Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote that. > > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts.
> > http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:22:41 -0700
> From: uma
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] of time trials and categories
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Message-ID: <48aa206146371_1c315a0dd578f1c4371e@lizard.tmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Seems to me if the dreaded multisport athletes are coming around and kicking booty on the "pure" cyclists it would just be added motivation to train harder/upgrade your gear. Pro tour teams all have guys with different strengths doing what they do best on stage races. You have your TTers, your climbers, your domestiques, and while there's crossover with the skill sets they all have their own strengths. TTers focus on winning TTs, not trying to ride every PIR, crit and road race. Multisport athletes tend to do well at TTs because that's what they train to do! They're not trying to win BAR points and stage races. As one racer I know said "You have to train your *** off just to be mediocre in this sport." This is true regardless of category or even specialization.
>
> Or as an (in)famous coach I know once said "If your only reason for racing is to win, you're probably going to be disappointed a lot. If you're not disappointed a lot, you're probably in the wrong category."
>
> S'cuse me. I have some meeting of teams to finish coordinating! And then there's that matter of that sexy P3 TT bike to consider...
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:28:35 -0700
> From: EDWARD NORTON
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Photos
> To: obra
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hello OBRA land
>
> I just posted some of my photos from the Crit Championships. Sorry I wasn't there all day.
>
> http://web.mac.com/stoppingtime/Site/Welcome.html
>
>
> Ed Norton
> Stoppingtime
> 503-625-0345 hm 503-781-1924 cell
>
>
> ---------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-request@list.obra.org
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:00:01
To:
Subject: OBRA Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16
Send OBRA mailing list submissions to
obra@list.obra.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
obra-request@list.obra.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
obra-owner@list.obra.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OBRA digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: butt rash (Michael O'Hair)
2. First rider kicked out of the Tour for doping
(jon.ragsdale@comcast.net)
3. Re: butt rash (Douglas Duguay)
4. Re: butt rash (Chip)
5. Rider injured in Cascade Classic (Joe Cipale)
6. attorney referrals? (uma kleppinger)
7. Wilson River trail (David Rosen)
8. AVC starts one week from today!! (Charlie)
9. Re: Wilson River trail (Phreadi)
10. Bend: 85-year-old crash victim didn't survive (Eric Chu)
11. AVC host housing (Meg Mautner)
12. J. Rathe in bikeportland.org (Mark J. Ginsberg)
13. Re: Koin cyclist Poll (Monty Hill)
14. Re: Wilson River trail (Paul Greenwalt)
15. Triathlon aerobars and shorts for sale (Steph)
16. Re: butt rash (hrdtduck)
17. Wilson River trail (David Rosen)
18. Results-State Kilo/500 championships (Candi Murray)
19. Results-Thursday Night Alpenrose Series (Candi Murray)
20. Re: Butt Rash (Jon W)
21. WTB: Parts for cross bike (Millar-Griffin)
22. TdF cafe/shop telecast ?? (D. J.)
23. Re: TdF cafe/shop telecast ?? (Matthew Klahn)
24. FS: Giant TCR C1 - 15.4 lbs. Many Upgrades, big reduced
price (Dave Bachman)
25. (no subject) (Lisa)
26. Re: (no subject) (Lisa)
27. WTB 52 CM Women's Bike (Douglas Duguay)
28. WTB 52 CM Women's Bike (Douglas Duguay)
29. FS: custom CX frameset (Anderson Folts)
30. WTB - 175mm road cranks (Tim Schauer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:42:02 -0700
From: "Michael O'Hair"
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] butt rash
To:
Message-ID: <003901c8e38e$31ba4010$19c963d8@qarus>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
First, wash everything, including your shorts to get rid of any salt
residue. Second, grease up and lubricate any and all potential pressure
points. I found that Cramer's SkinLube is very good in warm weather. It's
basically vaseline with wax to raise the melting point.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hrdtduck"
To: "'Jimmy Cavalieri'" ;
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Grade of Corbett Rd
> Speaking of curious,
>
> What do you guys do with butt rash...not a severe case or a infection of
> any
> kind, but a few pimples & irritation just from all the pressure and
> rubbing
> that "area" gets???
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:42:09 +0000
From: jon.ragsdale@comcast.net
Subject: [OBRA Chat] First rider kicked out of the Tour for doping
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID:
<071120081942.18411.4877B791000C6C28000047EB22007511500A040E0B9C090E9DD2020106@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Manuel Beltran was shown the door in the Tour today.
http://www.kcra.com/sports/16855532/detail.html
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:13:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas Duguay
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] butt rash
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <655733.84594.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
You cannot beat Assos Chamois Creme for comfort. From
the label: Assos chamois creme prolongs chamois life,
prevents bacteria, and fungal infections (saddle
sores,) keeps you comfortably cool by reducing
friction.
--- Michael O'Hair wrote:
> First, wash everything, including your shorts to get
> rid of any salt
> residue. Second, grease up and lubricate any and
> all potential pressure
> points. I found that Cramer's SkinLube is very good
> in warm weather. It's
> basically vaseline with wax to raise the melting
> point.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hrdtduck"
> To: "'Jimmy Cavalieri'"
> ;
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Grade of Corbett Rd
>
>
> > Speaking of curious,
> >
> > What do you guys do with butt rash...not a severe
> case or a infection of
> > any
> > kind, but a few pimples & irritation just from
> all the pressure and
> > rubbing
> > that "area" gets???
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:17:54 -0700
From: Chip
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] butt rash
To: "Douglas Duguay"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Just got some DZNUTS, great stuff, and well as a Grundel Bruiser, very funny
as well. I say easily as good or better than Assos
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Douglas Duguay
wrote:
> You cannot beat Assos Chamois Creme for comfort. From
> the label: Assos chamois creme prolongs chamois life,
> prevents bacteria, and fungal infections (saddle
> sores,) keeps you comfortably cool by reducing
> friction.
>
>
>
> --- Michael O'Hair wrote:
>
> > First, wash everything, including your shorts to get
> > rid of any salt
> > residue. Second, grease up and lubricate any and
> > all potential pressure
> > points. I found that Cramer's SkinLube is very good
> > in warm weather. It's
> > basically vaseline with wax to raise the melting
> > point.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "hrdtduck"
> > To: "'Jimmy Cavalieri'"
> > ;
> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Grade of Corbett Rd
> >
> >
> > > Speaking of curious,
> > >
> > > What do you guys do with butt rash...not a severe
> > case or a infection of
> > > any
> > > kind, but a few pimples & irritation just from
> > all the pressure and
> > > rubbing
> > > that "area" gets???
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:41:00 -0700
From: "Joe Cipale"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Rider injured in Cascade Classic
To: "OBRA"
Message-ID: <200807112041.m6BKf0df028456@sapphire.spiritone.com>
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_071108_news_cyclist_crash_.45c0aa37.html
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:50:00 -0700
From: uma kleppinger
Subject: [OBRA Chat] attorney referrals?
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <4877c778f408b_1c315a0dd32745c15a@lizard.tmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I know there are several bicycle attorneys around Portland, I'm just curious about referrals from riders who've resolved their bike-meets-car claims with the help of a local attorney.
Please email me back off list and keep the OBRA chat clear.
Thanks.
uma
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:06:35 -0700
From: "David Rosen"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Wilson River trail
To: "'Obra'"
Cc: 'Jason Temchin'
Message-ID: <004101c8e39a$01386140$6501a8c0@overlord>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi OBRA,
A teammate and I were planning on doing some mountain biking at the Wilson
River trail tomorrow, but with all of the emails going around about Gales
Creek being destroyed, I was curious if anyone knew of the condition at
Wilson River?
Also, if Wilson River is not in good shape, anywhere else (aside from
Brown's camp) that you would recommend?
Thanks.
Dave
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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:02:03 -0700
From: Charlie
Subject: [OBRA Chat] AVC starts one week from today!!
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <4877ca4bb4594_1c315a0dc41dd1c24b@lizard.tmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The Alpenrose Challenge starts next Friday and this year's racing will be fantastic. Elite men and women from all over the country are making their way to Portland to put on a good show. Let's show our support by filling the stands and making lots of noise!!! Racing starts at 10:00 a.m. Friday, Saturday and Sunday. There will be a kiddie kilo at the start of the Saturday and Sunday evening sessions.
Food Saturday and Sunday will be available from Macaroni Grill. Intermission entertainment on Saturday will be provided by the Last Regiment of Syncopated Drummers. Each evening session will feature a chance for spectators to win money in a 50/50 Split the Pot raffle. Raffle tickets will be sold and all money will go into a pot that will be split 50/50. One half will go to the raffle winner, the other half will go to the racers in the form of a lap prize.
Come out and enjoy some of the best track racing in the country in your own backyard. Admission is FREE!
Check out www.alpenrosechallenge.com for a schedule of events.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:32:19 -0700
From: Phreadi
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wilson River trail
To: "David Rosen"
Cc: Obra , Jason Temchin
Message-ID:
<39d72ecc0807111432i36e55c43y61a795b0be5f4f36@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I've ridden wilson river from the Elk Creek TH to Kings Mountain TH (only
3.8 miles) and it was fine. I haven't ridden west of Kings Mountain though,
but with no real clearcuts anywhere near the trail I'm guessing it's fine as
well, save for some blow down.
-Fred
2008/7/11 David Rosen :
> Hi OBRA,
>
>
>
> A teammate and I were planning on doing some mountain biking at the Wilson
> River trail tomorrow, but with all of the emails going around about Gales
> Creek being destroyed, I was curious if anyone knew of the condition at
> Wilson River?
>
>
>
> Also, if Wilson River is not in good shape, anywhere else (aside from
> Brown's camp) that you would recommend?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
--
Fred Ihle
phreadi@gmail.com
[503] 329-6634
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:57:40 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: Eric Chu
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Bend: 85-year-old crash victim didn't survive
To: bendcycling@yahoogroups.com, OBRA chat
Message-ID:
<11923572.1215813460437.JavaMail.root@whwamui-soar.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
regrettably, I just only now found out the 85-year-old that was hit by a truck on Purcell a few weeks ago did not survive his injuries. There was a brief mention from KTVZ in another story about a hit and run, but I thought I heard it wrong since I had not seen anything in the local press here in Bend, but found the following from the Gresham Outlook:
"Duane ?Duke? Noteboom
Dec. 21, 1922-June 28, 2008
Former Gresham resident Duane ?Duke? Noteboom, 85, died Saturday, June 28, in Bend. He was hit by a pickup truck as he was bicycling.
A memorial service will be held at 1 p.m. Wednesday, July 2, at Rock Arbor Villa Clubhouse, 2200 N.E. Highway 20, Bend.
Duke was born Dec. 21, 1922, in South Dakota to Benjamin and Elsie (Husman) Noteboom. He was raised in Tillamook and graduated from Tillamook High School. He enlisted in the Army in 1942 and served during World War II.
In December 1964, he married Lory Barnett. They lived in Gresham for 21 years, and then they lived in Bend for the last 23 years.
Duke worked as a truck driver, retiring in 1985. His hobbies included cycling and walking, and he danced with Rose City Squares for 35 years.
He was preceded in death by his brothers, Roland Noteboom and Don Noteboom; and stepdaughter, Diane Shelly.
Survivors include his wife; daughters, Karen Forrester of West Linn and Yvonne Ellison of Milwaukie; stepsons, Jerry Graff of Sandy and Ronald Crane of Oregon City; brother, Dorence Noteboom of Corvallis; 12 grandchildren; and 11 great-grandchildren."
Heartfelt condolences to the family---eric
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:11:40 -0700
From: Meg Mautner
Subject: [OBRA Chat] AVC host housing
To: OBRA
Message-ID: <1C7E1931-5C1F-458A-9D92-E8F50CB6C9D1@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Alright OBRA-
This is one last plea for host housing before AVC starts up next
week. So far, thanks to the generosity of all the folks near and dear
to OBRA, 25 riders from all over (Trinidad, Seattle, Canada,
California, Texas, Indiana, and Minnesota) have been placed with host
housing. Thank you very much!! But, I have no open spots left. If you
would be willing to open up your home to a rider or two during AVC
(July 18-20), please let me know. Anything you can offer in terms of
space is appreciated-it can be a sofa, a camping pad with sleeping
bag, futon, spare bed, etc. Thank you in advance-
Meg
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:15:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mark J. Ginsberg"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] J. Rathe in bikeportland.org
To: OBRA
Message-ID: <719675.54619.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
http://bikeportland.org/2008/07/11/portland-teen-will-represent-usa-at-world-championships/
Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:17:15 -0700
From: Monty Hill
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
To: "obra@list.obra.org"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I like the roundabout in the middle of Ladd's addition with the stop signs at every street. That make no sense whatsoever. Even if I got 5 tickets there I will never come to a complete stop.
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:38 AM
To: Martin Baker
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
Not to mention their frequent use of roundabouts...
Rick
Martin Baker wrote:
> I think this conversation also highlights that fact that stop signs
> are heavily overused and misused. In the UK, 90% of the situations
> where you would find a stop sign in the States, they employ a yield
> sign. And 4-way stops are almost unheard of - someone always has the
> right of way. In most cases, it's plain ridiculous to have a vehicle
> come to a complete stop when the sight-lines are good - it
> unnecessarily impedes the flow of traffic and people end up rolling
> through anyway because they realize they are usually stupid. Stop
> signs have become an inappropriate alternative to speed enforcement in
> neighborhoods.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Chris Alling
> *Sent:* Friday, July 11, 2008 9:27 AM
> *To:* hrdtduck; 'KO Kevin'; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>
> I to California stop (slow down to a pace that I can safely observe
> the intersection) most signs and a few blinking lights. I have
> actually had car drivers yell at me because I did such a "stop" and
> then they turn around and do the exact same thing at the next stop. I
> have caught some of these drivers and had discussions with them about
> their hypocrisy at which point most of them lie and tell me that they
> did stop but you know after being yelled at I am hyper observant.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> From: hrdtduck@clearwire.net
>> To: kko@ci.springfield.or.us; obra@list.obra.org
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:51:27 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> Hey I'm pretty much the same traffic do-gooder, and I admit I slow roll a
>> stop sign when no other traffic is around....just like 99.9% of the
> vehicles
>> do...I think it is called a "California stop"....I just really wonder
> what
>> we can do about all the "Freds" out there (sorry, not to impugn the name
>> Frederick)...I do not see any way to educate or to enforce traffic rule
>> compliance...from anyone...Only thing I can do is obey the best I can
> based
>> on what decision I make at the moment..... to how much or little of
> whatever
>> traffic law I obey.
>>
>> We all disobey from time to time traffic law whether on the bike or
> in the
>> car to some degree...that is a universal given in my opinion....but
> the high
>> profile stuff like stops and riding the wrong way on the road....we all
>> should make a effort to comply with, no matter how inconvenient it is.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of KO Kevin
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:21 AM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> Ok, I've gotten some flack for my admission of rolling through stop
>> signs. So to clarify, I DON'T blow through stop signs, I treat them more
>> as yield signs, and go when it's clear, and when it is my turn. Yeah,
>> know that it still violates the letter of the law, but I suggest that
>> ANY cyclist that claims he/she comes to a full stop at EVERY stop sign
>> is in denial. Heck, even the Trek commercial that is running with the
>> TDF on Vs shows a commuter rolling through a controlled intersection,
>> while the car on the side of him is stopping.
>>
>> I always obey a red light. I always signal my turns and lane changes
>> when there are cars or pedestrians around. I never pass on the right
>> unless there is a designated bike lane, I don't squeeze between lanes in
>> traffic. I always have a light when it is dark, I always wear a helmet,
>> I never kick my dog, I eat all of my veggies, I never run with scissors,
>> I always put the seat down....
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of hrdtduck
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:25 AM
>> To: joec@aracnet.com; 'Jamie Mikami'
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many
>> cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and
>> stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some
>> responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our
>> image
>> and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road
>> users.
>> (I.E. the Automorons)....
>> Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest
>> problem
>> is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking
>> about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the
>> road,
>> disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers
>> full
>> of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these
>> "cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads
>> in
>> town.
>> Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop
>> intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off
>> the
>> stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the
>> intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection,
>> no
>> attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as
>> responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of joe cipale
>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM
>> To: Jamie Mikami
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
>> > http://www.koin.com/
>> >
>> > How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
>> > the road?
>> >
>> > Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
>> > pretty, currently at 71% D or F.
>>
>> Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
>> cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
>> recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
>> of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
>> better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
>> where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live
> Messenger. Get started.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:10:36 -0700
From: "Paul Greenwalt"
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wilson River trail
To: "Phreadi" , "David Rosen"
Cc: Obra , Jason Temchin
Message-ID: <013701c8e3bc$1a42ee90$7801a8c0@vaio>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I ridden it from Elk Creek to Jones Creek Trailhead (about 11 miles) last week and it's in great shape. They've cut a road in the tail between Diamond Mill and Jones Creek.
-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Phreadi
To: David Rosen
Cc: Obra ; Jason Temchin
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wilson River trail
I've ridden wilson river from the Elk Creek TH to Kings Mountain TH (only 3.8 miles) and it was fine. I haven't ridden west of Kings Mountain though, but with no real clearcuts anywhere near the trail I'm guessing it's fine as well, save for some blow down.
-Fred
2008/7/11 David Rosen :
Hi OBRA,
A teammate and I were planning on doing some mountain biking at the Wilson River trail tomorrow, but with all of the emails going around about Gales Creek being destroyed, I was curious if anyone knew of the condition at Wilson River?
Also, if Wilson River is not in good shape, anywhere else (aside from Brown's camp) that you would recommend?
Thanks.
Dave
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
--
Fred Ihle
phreadi@gmail.com
[503] 329-6634
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:20:33 -0700
From: Steph
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Triathlon aerobars and shorts for sale
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <487806e1cea4f_7ac815a54356044839f@lizard.tmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Brand new still in box AluminX Aerobars 42cm black $80 (new $170)
Tag on brand new Sugoi Power Tri Shorts: $30 (new $60)
Sizes on shorts:
men 5 pairs of M
women 2 pairs of XS, XS and one pair M
Barely used pair of Sidi T1 women's shoes size 43 with perfect condition Shimano Road cleats: $50 (cleats alone are worth $20!!)
Email for pictures or with questions.
ssullivanemail@gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:33:15 -0700
From: "hrdtduck"
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] butt rash
To: "'Chip'" , "'Douglas Duguay'"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <007001c8e3bf$4371a880$ca54f980$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Where do you get it??
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Chip
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 1:18 PM
To: Douglas Duguay
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] butt rash
Just got some DZNUTS, great stuff, and well as a Grundel Bruiser, very funny
as well. I say easily as good or better than Assos
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Douglas Duguay
wrote:
You cannot beat Assos Chamois Creme for comfort. From
the label: Assos chamois creme prolongs chamois life,
prevents bacteria, and fungal infections (saddle
sores,) keeps you comfortably cool by reducing
friction.
--- Michael O'Hair wrote:
> First, wash everything, including your shorts to get
> rid of any salt
> residue. Second, grease up and lubricate any and
> all potential pressure
> points. I found that Cramer's SkinLube is very good
> in warm weather. It's
> basically vaseline with wax to raise the melting
> point.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hrdtduck"
> To: "'Jimmy Cavalieri'"
> ;
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Grade of Corbett Rd
>
>
> > Speaking of curious,
> >
> > What do you guys do with butt rash...not a severe
> case or a infection of
> > any
> > kind, but a few pimples & irritation just from
> all the pressure and
> > rubbing
> > that "area" gets???
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:53:30 -0700
From: "David Rosen"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Wilson River trail
To: "'Obra'"
Message-ID: <000901c8e3c2$15ce47a0$6501a8c0@overlord>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you to everyone who responded in regards to my post about the Wilson
River trail.
For those that are curious, the trail appears to be in great shape. I, and
some friends, will be riding it tomorrow. We are really looking forward to
it.
See you on dirty side.
Dave
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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:55:58 -0700
From: "Candi Murray"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Results-State Kilo/500 championships
To:
Message-ID: <005a01c8e3db$940a11d0$9901a8c0@8A287A4ADEF0487>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
500 Final
Women Cat 4
1 Cobb Nissy Sum Bike Team 40.46
2 McGraw Laura Veloforma 44.74
3 Murphy Marca Therapeutic Associates 45.74
4 McCarthy Kristin 46.71
5 Thiele Barbara Team Rose City 47.49
6 Houser PJ cyclisme 48.91
7 Larson Elena 59.92
Women Cat 3
1 Bjesse-Puffin Amelia Bike Central 40
2 Knoblock Anna Bike Central 41.75
3 Woolcock Kayla Sum Bike Team 42.2
4 Charboneau Emily Therapeutic Associates 43.17
5 Hook Camille Bike Central 43.58
6 Graham Fiona Specialized/River City Bicycles 45.73
Mautner Meg Bike Central 48.24
Sr Women
1 Featheringill Jen Bike Central 39.06
2 Fisk Andrea Velo Bella 40.6
3 VanValkenburg Heather Team Rubicon 42.53
4 Hughes-Godfrey Lynn Bike Central 42.55
5 Bihlmaier Jeanie Specialized/River City Bicycles 44.25
Kilometer
Men Category 4/5
1 Cowperthwaite David Team Oregon 1:16.44
2 Brush Walton River City 1:16.79
3 LaVigne Justin Team Oregon 1:18.18
4 Spahr Trevor cyclisme 1:18.53
5 Lightman alex cyclisme 1:18.71
6 Prettyman Joe BBC 1:20.06
7 Culpepper Clint Team Beer 1:21.25
8 Bigwood Robert Portland Velo 1:21.82
9 Casady Brent Existential Velo 1:22.25
10 Carder George Team Beer 1:23.69
11 Black Steve Wyld Stallions 1:23.98
12 Meinhardt Gary Bike Central 1:24.53
13 Felts Danny cyclisme 1:25.90
14 Birman Alex BBC 1:26.04
15 DeShirley Jon 1:26.08
16 Bennett Mike Bike Central 1:28.63
Men Category 3
1 Kim John BBC 1:15.41
2 Frechen Nathan Team Beer 1:17.10
3 Deardorff Chris cyclisme 1:17.12
4 Provencher Darell Team Rose City 1:18.12
5 Field Joe Fred Meyer 1:18.16
6 Alling Chris Fred Meyer 1:20.98
7 Risner Michael cyclisme 1:20.98
8 Mautner Paul Team Rose City 1:25.61
Sr Men
1 Beardsley Steven Gentle Lovers 1:10.44
2 Bjesse Per Bike Central 1:11.18
3 Suditu Richard BBC 1:15.42
4 Hemmenway Daryl Guiness 1:18.30
5 Warner Charlie Veloce 1:20.32
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:09:35 -0700
From: "Candi Murray"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Results-Thursday Night Alpenrose Series
To:
Message-ID: <006301c8e3dd$7b49f0a0$9901a8c0@8A287A4ADEF0487>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Senior Men Number Last Name First Name Hometown Team
1 812 Blackwelder Mark Portland Gentle Lovers
2 183 Deck Casey Portland Therapeutic Associates Inc.
Cycling
3 177 Warner Charles Portland Veloce/Felt
4 845 Kic Tony portland Gentle Lovers
5 312 Dumortier Jerome Portland Beaverton Bicycle
Club
6 899 Hemenway Daryl Portland Guinness Cycling
7 888 Hoefer Carl Portland Therapeutic Associates Inc.
Cycling
8 169 Weaver Ryan Portland River City Bicycles
Men Category 3
1 2820 Leber Brian Portland The Bike Gallery
2 1473 Jacks Patrick Aloha
3 1752 Curl Chauncey Portland Team Rubicon
4 627 Hemminger Stephen Beaverton Southtown Velo
5 389 Vinson Jonathan Portland Veloshop
6 262 Godfrey Norrene Battle Ground Team Rubicon
7 123 Murray Mike Gresham Bike Central
8 2234 Walp Matthew Happy Valley
9 1322 Vandervort Don Beaverton Beaverton Bicycle
Club
10 687 Mikami Jamie Portland Team Rubicon
11 169 Weaver Ryan Portland River City Bicycles
12 2449 Mikami Jamie Portland Team Rubicon
13 1751 Curl Darien Portland Team Rubicon
Women Category 4
1 2815 McCarthy Kristin Portland b.i.k.e.-RiverCity
Bicycles, by Cyclisme
2 980 Cartwright Carolyn Buxton Beaverton Bicycle Club
3 982 Cartwright Elizabeth Buxton Beaverton Bicycle
Club
Men Category 4
1 1173 Lightman Alex Portland b.i.k.e.-RiverCity
Bicycles, by Cyclisme
2 2359 Black Steve Portland Wild Stallions
3 1086 Taylor Sam Portland Finnegans Toys/Discover
Chiropractic
4 1054 DeShirley Jon Portland
Madison
1 1 Blackwelder Mark Gentle Lovers
1 1 Kic Tony Gentle Lovers
2 2 Hoefer Carl Therapeutic Associates Inc. Cycling
2 2 Deck Casey Therapeutic Associates Inc. Cycling
3 3 Murray Mike Bike Central
3 3 Walp Matthew
4 4 Dumortier Jerome BBC
4 4 Vandervort Don BBC
5 5 Hemmenway Daryl Guinness Cycling
5 5 Magnus Ron Fred Meyer
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:13:22 -0700
From: Jon W
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Butt Rash
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <48783d725bf5d_7ac815a5434636444c1@lizard.tmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I bike commute 4 - 5 days a week and foud Crotchgaurd to be an incredible product
http://www.crotchguard.com/
Along with Chamois cream ( I use Freddy's) and good Hygine this product does wonders. It looks expensive, but a bottle lasts forever, just a light spray at the end of the day or after a big ride.
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 07:40:20 -0700
From: Millar-Griffin
Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB: Parts for cross bike
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Here is what I am looking for:
Ultegra 9 Speed Shifters
Front and Rear Derailleurs could be 105 or Ultegra
Any recommendations for shops that particularly know working on cross
bikes? I live in SE Portland, I am willing to travel some but would
like to burn the least amount of fossil fuels.
Thanks for any help you can offer. Please email me off list.
Sheilagh Griffin
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:13:05 +0000
From: "D. J."
Subject: [OBRA Chat] TdF cafe/shop telecast ??
To:
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I know this was brought up before a few weeks ago, but is there any business in Portland showing the live TdF telecast early each morning. That cafe on NW Thurman west of 23rd? Bike Gallery?
Thanks,
Dave
_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008
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Message: 23
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:19:21 -0700
From: Matthew Klahn
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TdF cafe/shop telecast ??
To: "D. J."
Cc: ""
Message-ID: <83DC3743-0C33-4017-97CA-E7B4D2E9F3D1@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Last Sunday we did see that St. Honor? was showing Le Tour, but it
must have been time delayed...
--
Matthew Klahn
On Jul 12, 2008, at 8:13, "D. J." wrote:
> I know this was brought up before a few weeks ago, but is there any
> business in Portland showing the live TdF telecast early each
> morning. That cafe on NW Thurman west of 23rd? Bike Gallery?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live
> Messenger. Get started.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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Message: 24
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:38:19 -0700
From: Dave Bachman
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: Giant TCR C1 - 15.4 lbs. Many Upgrades, big
reduced price
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <4878cfeb26660_24181597866f425c177@lizard.tmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
BIG PRICE REDUCTION! 2006 Giant TCR C1 - Size M with many, many upgrades. At 15.4 pound Giant TCR with more upgrades than you can count. Bike is in better than new or showroom condition. It has to be seen to be truley appreciated. This is a size Medium which is the equivalent of a 55.6cm effective top tube bike with compact geometry. The frame and fork are full carbon including steer tube. THIS PRICE INCLUDES AN OPTION FOR A SET OF KSYRIUM ELITE WHEELS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION INSTEAD OF THE XAERO'S AS SPECIFIED BELOW, value=$600 new(less than 500 miles on them). Upgrades and components are as follows. Email or call 503-730-3809 and make offer! I'll reduce price by removing wheels and feel free to take either set with bike! I'll sell the bike with extras (such as pedals, shoes, carbon bottle cages, computer, etc.) and both sets of wheels (best of both worlds) for only $2,400 (FIRM). That is about $4,800 worth of equipment for half price. All in new or very close to new conditio
n!
Spinergy XAERO Wheels with polyfiber PBO spoke technology (1520 grams)
Giant carbon bars (190 grams)
FSA SLK Carbon Cranks
FSA SLK Carbon Seatpost - New
SLR Saddle (135 grams)- New
SRAM Red Cassette (New)
SRAM Red Powerlink Chain (New)
Salsa Titanium Skewers (89 grams)- New
Dura Ace Rear Derailer
Ultegra Front Derailer and Shifters
Tektro Carbon Brakes
Pro Race 2 Tires
The Upgrades to this bike alone are worth nearly $1,600. This bike has about 3,000 miles on it but wheels and drivetrain are new or nearly new. Overall this bike is in perfect mechanical and physical condition. This was my sunny day only bike but does not fit me due to body type and back condition. I built this bike for one purpose, to win hill climbs. Overall a great value for the price. 15.4 pounds for this price is rare.
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lisa
Subject: [OBRA Chat] (no subject)
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <380852.48127.qm@web33807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
kept indoors in a climate controlled setting since purchased, VERY low miles, great for newbies or other young adult.?Price reduced to $450 obo over $400
?
Some of the stats:?
?
TRUVATIV ISOFLOW ROAD
8-SPEED SHIMANO SHIFTERS
ALEXRIMS DC 19
VITTORIA RANDONNEUR DOUBLE SHIELDING TIRES
?
Contact Lisa via email above for more info
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Message: 26
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lisa
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] (no subject)
To: obra@list.obra.org
Message-ID: <270892.64454.qm@web33808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My bad! forgot to include the subject...DUH!? 2006 47cm Raleigh bicycle for sale!!
kept indoors in a climate controlled setting since purchased, VERY low miles, great for newbies or other young adult.?Price reduced to $450 obo over $400
?
Some of the stats:?
?
TRUVATIV ISOFLOW ROAD
8-SPEED SHIMANO SHIFTERS
ALEXRIMS DC 19
VITTORIA RANDONNEUR DOUBLE SHIELDING TIRES
?
Contact Lisa via email above for more info and pics
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Message: 27
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas Duguay
Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB 52 CM Women's Bike
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: mari@mariruddy.com
Message-ID: <548969.28735.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I'm looking for a 52 CM women's bike. Ride ready- but
priced somewhere around $200? Whatcha got??
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas Duguay
Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB 52 CM Women's Bike
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: mari@mariruddy.com
Message-ID: <725453.22720.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I'm looking for a 52 CM women's bike. Ride ready- but
priced somewhere around $200? Whatcha got??
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:23:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anderson Folts
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FS: custom CX frameset
To: OBRA OBRR
Message-ID: <15137.65890.qm@web35902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Custom lugged steel Paquini cyclocross frame, Winwood carbon/alloy fork, Chris King headset. 60cm seat-tube 57cm top tube. Bike can also be used for light touring. Top tube is slightly sloping, Dedaccai Zero Uno tubing. $500, firm.
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Message: 30
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:40:34 -0700
From: Tim Schauer
Subject: [OBRA Chat] WTB - 175mm road cranks
To: "obra@list.obra.org"
Message-ID:
<85B2BDAD0416D74FAA8BD75AE0FA81B10136576821@exch01.msi.local>
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I'm helping out a friend with some parts in need of replacement. Looking for the new style cranks that are compatible with the external bottom bracket (like new shimano). We already have a bottom bracket. I was thinking SRAM Rival, Shimano 105, FSA gossamer or like. Looking for cheap. Prefer 130mm bolt center pattern. I have rings, so those aren't necessary. These don't need to be that nice, just functional. $50 to $100?
Thanks,
-Tim
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Um, you're joking right? Didn't Mike just send out detailed instructions on
how to unsubscribe?
Once more, directly from Mikes email:
Send and email to obra-uns-@topica.com.
After this, you will get an email from Topica.com
asking you to confirm your un-subscribe. Just follow
the instructions in that email!
Sheesh!
Ryan
At 10:14 PM 2/14/00 -0800, you wrote:
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There is another alternative. Log in to Topica and edit your preferences
to not send you messages as e-mail. Change settings to leave messages on
website similar to a newsgroup format. You can view messages at your
leisure, or not at all. I've found this to be very convenient.
Hope this helps
John Henry
Mike Murray wrote:
And the people that are writing notes such as yours to the whole list
are
not wasting anyone's time. Please unsubscribe by following the
directions.
If you send a note to the whole list the only way that you will be
unsubscribed is if someone does that for you manually. It certainly
takes
more time for the person managing the list to do that then it does for
you
to hit the delete button.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Irving [mailto:whir-@usa.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 4:22 PM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: unsubscribe
looks like people are voting with their feet, er fingers.
Unsubscribe please.
Your volumious crap wastes my time
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You share a similar passion. You align with common interests.
You connect over a favorite topic. You belong at Topica.
http://www.topica.com/t/10
And the people that are writing notes such as yours to the whole list are
not wasting anyone's time. Please unsubscribe by following the directions.
If you send a note to the whole list the only way that you will be
unsubscribed is if someone does that for you manually. It certainly takes
more time for the person managing the list to do that then it does for you
to hit the delete button.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Irving [mailto:whir-@usa.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 4:22 PM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: unsubscribe
looks like people are voting with their feet, er fingers.
Unsubscribe please.
Your volumious crap wastes my time
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Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
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You share a similar passion. You align with common interests.
You connect over a favorite topic. You belong at Topica.
http://www.topica.com/t/10
looks like people are voting with their feet, er fingers.
Unsubscribe please.
Your volumious crap wastes my time
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1
unsubscribe
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Brad Halstead
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