OBRA: OBRA Chat: Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

Whitlinger, David L

2004-06-17

Doesn't OBRA have a Board that should handle this?

Dave

All-

I am having a hard time being civil about this whole situation. Plus

Mike

writes much more elequently than I.

The wheel was retrieved by having a 70 year old volunteer drive 357

miles

and spend over 9 hours in transit. Mr Wilkie made no effort to return

the

wheel on his own.

I find nothing acceptable about Mr Wilkie's actions, we have removed

his

suspension. Every time I try to add more to this note I am overcome

with

anger and disgust. This single action is why programs fail.

Candi

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Murray [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:18 AM

To: OBRA Remailer

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Seth Wilkie

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The OBRA wheel that Seth Wilkie had in his possession has been

retrieved and

is now in OBRA possession. His suspension is removed.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Murray [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 08:35 AM

To: OBRA Remailer

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Seth Wilkie

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At the Rehearsal Road Race Seth Wilkie placed a set of wheels in the

support

car evidently giving instructions to the driver that these wheels were

to be

only given to him and not to anyone else who flats. As people who

have read

my prior notes know, and for that matter any reasonable thinking

person

knows, this is not how neutral support could possibly work. At the

conclusion of the race Mr. Wilkie went to the support car and found

that one

of his wheels had not yet returned. As a response he took one of the

OBRA

wheels. I guess that it was his plan to hold the OBRA wheel "hostage"

until

his wheel returned. In actuality his wheel was left at the race site

and is

now in the possession of Brian Witty. Mr. Wilkie told us of this

during the

Mt Hood Stage Race. He did, however, not have the wheel with him at

that

time. Candi made it clear to him that this was not acceptable and

that the

wheel was to be returned as soon as possible. He promised to do that

at the

State Championships this weekend. This did not occur. We have not

heard

from him since that time.

I find this whole episode fairly remarkable. Over the last 30 plus

years

that I have been racing bikes I have seen considerable self centered

and

egocentric behavior but this tops anything that I have ever seen.

Having

your wheel go missing clearly does not give you the right to steal one

from

someone else. At every step this episode demonstrated a disregard for

other

people.

We have informed Mr. Wilkie that he is suspended from any further

racing

until this issue is resolved by return of the wheel. Should this not

occur

rapidly we will take further action which could include suspension of

Mr.

Wilkie's team, McKenzie Cascade Cycling Team (Hayden Homes, Frontier

Mortgage, Barhart Assoc), notification of the team sponsors,

suspension of

the individual team members and legal action against Mr. Wilkie.

I am writing to this list in the hope the response it creates will not

only

motivate the return of the OBRA wheel but also discourage this type of

behavior with regards to the OBRA wheels or any of the other OBRA

equipment

in the future.

Mike Murray

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Michael.-@CH2M.com

2004-06-17

Go and re-read Mike Murray's original post (below) - you'll notice that

he and Candi already had complete control of the situation - aside from

having gotten the wheel back. They knew what was going on and had been

in contact with Seth.

If Mike didn't want the group to put the peer pressure on, he wouldn't

have posted to the list.

No matter how you want to view it, taking possession of a wheel just

because yours in not immediately available is wrong.

If you have a suggestion as to how improve the process or "consequences"

for future foul-play, I'm sure that Candi and Mike would love to hear

from you.

And yes, I'm sure that Seth has received enough public humiliation (as

Thomas pointed out).

Michael

-----Original Message-----

<snip>

-----------------------------------------------------------

At the Rehearsal Road Race Seth Wilkie placed a set of wheels in the

Support car evidently giving instructions to the driver that these

wheels were to beonly given to him and not to anyone else who flats. As

people who have read my prior notes know, and for that matter any

reasonable thinking person knows, this is not how neutral support could

possibly work.

At the conclusion of the race Mr. Wilkie went to the support car and

found that one of his wheels had not yet returned. As a response he took

one of the OBRA wheels. I guess that it was his plan to hold the OBRA

wheel "hostage" until his wheel returned. In actuality his wheel was

left at the race site and is now in the possession of Brian Witty. Mr.

Wilkie told us of this during the Mt Hood Stage Race. He did, however,

not have the wheel with him at that time.

Candi made it clear to him that this was not acceptable and that the

wheel was to be returned as soon as possible. He promised to do that at

the State Championships this weekend. This did not occur. We have not

heard from him since that time.

I find this whole episode fairly remarkable. Over the last 30 plus

years that I have been racing bikes I have seen considerable self

centered and egocentric behavior but this tops anything that I have ever

seen. Having your wheel go missing clearly does not give you the right

to steal one from someone else. At every step this episode demonstrated

a disregard for other people.

We have informed Mr. Wilkie that he is suspended from any further racing

until this issue is resolved by return of the wheel. Should this not

occur rapidly we will take further action which could include suspension

of Mr. Wilkie's team, McKenzie Cascade Cycling Team (Hayden Homes,

Frontier Mortgage, Barhart Assoc), notification of the team sponsors,

suspension of the individual team members and legal action against Mr.

Wilkie.

I am writing to this list in the hope the response it creates will not

Only motivate the return of the OBRA wheel but also discourage this type

of behavior with regards to the OBRA wheels or any of the other OBRA

Equipment in the future.

Mike Murray

Steve-@clark.wa.gov

2004-06-17

Okay, I'm sorry. You are right Leo and so are some of the others. It would

be nice if ole' Seth spoke up for himself though. One thing for sure, we

don't want this kind of thing running the whole batch of berries.

I love berries...

-----Original Message-----

From: Leo Tsou [mailto:leot-@finneganstoys.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:57 PM

To: Michael.-@ch2m.com; cmur-@obra.org; mike.m-@obra.org

Cc: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

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As it was said "I wasn't going to" but I guess I will.

As a member of Corben/Huntair, who have just been the target of the piling

on by OBRA members, I would ask that we first hear what poor Seth has to

say. There may be a different side to the story. Poor Seth may not

have/look at his computer to see the the call to return the wheel. If in

fact if he has seen the call and not answered, then he deserves the call for

suspension but let us hear from him first. Often there are distinctly two

different stories.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Michael Packard" <Michael.-@ch2m.com>

To: <cmur-@obra.org>; <mike.m-@obra.org>

Cc: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:46 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

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I wasn't going to, but oh well..

I think we all pretty much agree that this type of behavior is completely

uncalled for - disgusting indeed.

Maybe a season-long suspension should automatically be applied to any future

individuals who feel the need to make off with an OBRA wheel (or anyone

else's for that matter) after a race?

Let this incident serve as fair warning?

Or a type of "3 strikes" rule:

1. You get 3 days to return a wheel that's not yours (we've all made

mistakes at times).

2. On day 4 of a 1st offense, you get an automatic suspension until the

wheel(s) have been returned, or two weeks, which ever is longer.

3. On day 4 of a 2nd offense, you get an automatic suspension for the

remainder of the season.

4. Any wheel(s) not returned within 3 weeks is grounds for legal action

against the "borrowing" party.

5. Permanent OBRA ban after 24 hours on a 3rd offense (career cumulative).

A day is defined as 24 hours from the end of your race. So, if you race

leader finished at 2 PM on Saturday, day 1 is up at 2 PM on Sunday.

I would consider it an exception to the rule if you had a wheel and were

being life flighted or taken away in an ambulance.

Feel free to hack and legalize away..

My opinion.

Michael

-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:14 PM

To: obra

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

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All-

I am having a hard time being civil about this whole situation. Plus Mike

writes much more elequently than I.

The wheel was retrieved by having a 70 year old volunteer drive 357 miles

and spend over 9 hours in transit. Mr Wilkie made no effort to return the

wheel on his own.

I find nothing acceptable about Mr Wilkie's actions, we have removed his

suspension. Every time I try to add more to this note I am overcome with

anger and disgust. This single action is why programs fail.

Candi

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Murray [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:18 AM

To: OBRA Remailer

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Seth Wilkie

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The OBRA wheel that Seth Wilkie had in his possession has been retrieved and

is now in OBRA possession. His suspension is removed.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Murray [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 08:35 AM

To: OBRA Remailer

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Seth Wilkie

-----------------------------------------------------------

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At the Rehearsal Road Race Seth Wilkie placed a set of wheels in the support

car evidently giving instructions to the driver that these wheels were to be

only given to him and not to anyone else who flats. As people who have read

my prior notes know, and for that matter any reasonable thinking person

knows, this is not how neutral support could possibly work. At the

conclusion of the race Mr. Wilkie went to the support car and found that one

of his wheels had not yet returned. As a response he took one of the OBRA

wheels. I guess that it was his plan to hold the OBRA wheel "hostage" until

his wheel returned. In actuality his wheel was left at the race site and is

now in the possession of Brian Witty. Mr. Wilkie told us of this during the

Mt Hood Stage Race. He did, however, not have the wheel with him at that

time. Candi made it clear to him that this was not acceptable and that the

wheel was to be returned as soon as possible. He promised to do that at the

State Championships this weekend. This did not occur. We have not heard

from him since that time.

I find this whole episode fairly remarkable. Over the last 30 plus years

that I have been racing bikes I have seen considerable self centered and

egocentric behavior but this tops anything that I have ever seen. Having

your wheel go missing clearly does not give you the right to steal one from

someone else. At every step this episode demonstrated a disregard for other

people.

We have informed Mr. Wilkie that he is suspended from any further racing

until this issue is resolved by return of the wheel. Should this not occur

rapidly we will take further action which could include suspension of Mr.

Wilkie's team, McKenzie Cascade Cycling Team (Hayden Homes, Frontier

Mortgage, Barhart Assoc), notification of the team sponsors, suspension of

the individual team members and legal action against Mr. Wilkie.

I am writing to this list in the hope the response it creates will not only

motivate the return of the OBRA wheel but also discourage this type of

behavior with regards to the OBRA wheels or any of the other OBRA equipment

in the future.

Mike Murray

-----------------------------------------------------------

Let University of Phoenix make 2004 your year. Evening,

weekend or FlexNet(r) classes - over 130 locations. Look

into our programs and get the degree that gets you going!

http://click.topica.com/caaciq1aVxiDpa2wQzCf/UOP

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To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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-----------------------------------------------------------

Let University of Phoenix make 2004 your year. Evening,

weekend or FlexNet(r) classes - over 130 locations. Look

into our programs and get the degree that gets you going!

http://click.topica.com/caaciq1aVxiDpbnHCC4f/UOP

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Peter Murphy

2004-06-17

Scarlett Number?

Pete Murphy

"The sneakiest form of literary subtlety, in a corrupt society, is to speak

the plain truth. The critics will not understand you; the public will not

believe you; your fellow writers will shake their heads."

---Edward Abbey

From: Dave German <dave_g-@hotmail.com>

Reply-To: dave_g-@hotmail.com

To: George_-@pgn.com, toka-@ix.netcom.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:09:40 -0700

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The letter is great, but I think he should also be required to wear a

jursey with "THIEF" printed across the front and back, for at least the

next year's races!

From: George T Gardner <George_-@pgn.com>

Reply-To: George_-@pgn.com

To: toka-@ix.netcom.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:39:31 -0700

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Keith,

I was thinking about drafting a letter to send to his team's sponsors and

to him. It would be something straightforward - just laying out the facts

as they've been revealed to us by the emails. I would only suggest that

the sponsers address the matter with Mr. Wilkie allowing him his say. I

would then sign the letter as a concerned member of the racing community

who believes his actions reflect very poorly on the sport.

However, I'm pressed for time - leaving for a trip. Here's his email from

the OBRA website (Team Contact): seth_w-@hotmail.com.

George

The Tabor Two-Miler

"Keith A. Prior" <toka-@ix.netcom.com> 06/17/2004 2:18:37 PM >>>

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   If a bunch of us OBRA people wrote to him and told him how lame it was

of him it might make him stop and think.

    Anyone have his email address?

     -K

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Woods [mailto:woody2-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:13 PM

To: shane.-@comcast.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

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Card-----------------------------------------------------------I second

that Hear Hear

----- Original Message -----

From: Shane Young

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:05 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

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My vote is for suspension for the year, or at least until he pays for the

volunteer's gas money and an official appology to OBRA as a whole.

Shane

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I think you should have left his suspension in place for a couple more

weeks

myself.

-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray/Oregon Bicycle Racing Assn [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:14 PM

To: obra

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Obra Wheel was Seth Wilkie

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All-

I am having a hard time being civil about this whole situation. Plus

Mike

writes much more elequently than I.

The wheel was retrieved by having a 70 year old volunteer drive 357

miles

and spend over 9 hours in transit. Mr Wilkie made no effort to return

the

wheel on his own.

I find nothing acceptable about Mr Wilkie's actions, we have removed

his

suspension. Every time I try to add more to this note I am overcome

with

anger and disgust. This single action is why programs fail.

Candi

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Murray [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:18 AM

To: OBRA Remailer

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Seth Wilkie

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The OBRA wheel that Seth Wilkie had in his possession has been

retrieved and

is now in OBRA possession. His suspension is removed.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Murray [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 08:35 AM

To: OBRA Remailer

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Seth Wilkie

-----------------------------------------------------------

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At the Rehearsal Road Race Seth Wilkie placed a set of wheels in the

support

car evidently giving instructions to the driver that these wheels were

to be

only given to him and not to anyone else who flats. As people who have

read

my prior notes know, and for that matter any reasonable thinking person

knows, this is not how neutral support could possibly work. At the

conclusion of the race Mr. Wilkie went to the support car and found

that one

of his wheels had not yet returned. As a response he took one of the

OBRA

wheels. I guess that it was his plan to hold the OBRA wheel "hostage"

until

his wheel returned. In actuality his wheel was left at the race site

and is

now in the possession of Brian Witty. Mr. Wilkie told us of this during

the

Mt Hood Stage Race. He did, however, not have the wheel with him at

that

time. Candi made it clear to him that this was not acceptable and that

the

wheel was to be returned as soon as possible. He promised to do that