OBRA: OBRA Chat: Cat 3/4 crash at Cascade?

David Hart

2004-07-14

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RE: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3/4 crash at Cascade?Would you say that crash happened due to someone's inexperience in fast long descents?

David Hart

North River Racing

Southwest Washington's Cycling team!

----- Original Message -----

From: Pat Sagers<mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com>

To: 'ob-@topica.com'<mailto:'ob-@topica.com'>

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:15 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3/4 crash at Cascade?

I got to see most of what happened with both crashes plus get an eyeful of some poor sole's water bottle. "My theory" on what happened is that the combination of the decent, the strong tail wind and the draft created by the front of the group caused the back of the group to overrun the front. Plus several folks experienced "speed wobbles" and immediately applied considerable brake pressure. This I think resulted in several riders running into the back end of other riders. From my perspective, if that crash had started near the front of the field, they would of had to stop the race just to deal with the carnage. I usually race in the Masters field and have yet to see or hear anything like that first crash. It had me freaked the entire ride. I have much greater respect for the folks that ride daily in crowded packs like that.

Pat Sagers

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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<DIV>Would you say that crash happened due to someone's inexperience in fast

long descents?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>David Hart<BR>North River Racing <BR>Southwest Washington's Cycling team!

</DIV>

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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A

title=mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com href="mailto:pat_s-@orcom.com">Pat

Sagers</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title="mailto:'ob-@topica.com'"

href="mailto:'ob-@topica.com'">'ob-@topica.com'</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:15

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3/4 crash at

Cascade?</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<P><FONT size=2>I got to see most of what happened with both crashes plus get

an eyeful of some poor sole's water bottle. "My theory" on what happened

is that the combination of the decent, the strong tail wind and the draft

created by the front of the group caused the back of the group to overrun the

front. Plus several folks experienced "speed wobbles" and immediately

applied considerable brake pressure. This I think resulted in several

riders running into the back end of other riders. From my perspective,

if that crash had started near the front of the field, they would of had to

stop the race just to deal with the carnage. I usually race in the

Masters field and have yet to see or hear anything like that first

crash. It had me freaked the entire ride. I have much greater

respect for the folks that ride daily in crowded packs like

that.</FONT></P><BR>

<P><FONT size=2>Pat Sagers </FONT></P><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Alan Sherman

2004-07-14

I talked to a person who was involved in the crash after the Old Mill

crit. He said that 2 folks hooked handle bars right in front of him and

went down. He said he was doing around 45mph when he hit the deck.

Just another tidbit of information if it helps.

-Alan

kevin maier wrote:

Does anybody have an update on the fellow who went down on that first

descent off Mt. Bachelor in Friday's Cat 3/4 race? I hope he's OK, as

that was positively the most brutal crash I've ever seen.

thanks for any information,

kevin

Pat Sagers

2004-07-13

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I got to see most of what happened with both crashes plus get an eyeful of

some poor sole's water bottle. "My theory" on what happened is that the

combination of the decent, the strong tail wind and the draft created by the

front of the group caused the back of the group to overrun the front. Plus

several folks experienced "speed wobbles" and immediately applied

considerable brake pressure. This I think resulted in several riders

running into the back end of other riders. From my perspective, if that

crash had started near the front of the field, they would of had to stop the

race just to deal with the carnage. I usually race in the Masters field and

have yet to see or hear anything like that first crash. It had me freaked

the entire ride. I have much greater respect for the folks that ride daily

in crowded packs like that.

Pat Sagers

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I got to see most of what happened with both crashes plus get an eyeful of some poor sole's water bottle. "My theory" on what happened is that the combination of the decent, the strong tail wind and the draft created by the front of the group caused the back of the group to overrun the front. Plus several folks experienced "speed wobbles" and immediately applied considerable brake pressure. This I think resulted in several riders running into the back end of other riders. From my perspective, if that crash had started near the front of the field, they would of had to stop the race just to deal with the carnage. I usually race in the Masters field and have yet to see or hear anything like that first crash. It had me freaked the entire ride. I have much greater respect for the folks that ride daily in crowded packs like that.</FONT></P>

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Pat Sagers </FONT>

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kevin maier

2004-07-13

Apologies, Steve. I wasn't aware how many people went down. I hope

you, and everyone else involved in Friday's crashes, are recovering

quickly. The guy I'm referring to--perhaps, I've been informed off

list, Delvin Hudson, who broke his hip in 3 places--was right next to me

and somehow managed to go straight over his bars at 50+. I didn't see

him touch any other wheels or bump any other riders. I thought,

actually, that he may have had speed wobbles, as I saw a handful of

other riders get them too. But I'm not exactly sure what happened; I

was too busy trying to stay out of the way of everyone else.

I, for one, would support a neutral descent or perhaps an alternate

route. We hit 50 before the pack had time to settle into any sort of

comfortable formation; this simply seems unsafe to me. I was told the

route is designed to separate things out--presumably on the climb back

up?--before descending down the other (narrower and potentially more

dangerous) side, but this didn't seem to happen, as evidenced by the

second rather high-speed crash on that second descent.

Though I enjoyed the scenery and the racing (even if I didn't ride

well!) in my first trip to Cascade, I spent the weekend unable to get

the sound of those two crashes out of my head.

kevin

Steve Getsiv wrote:

I also went down in that crash. I believe the seriously injured rider

was from Logie Velo.

I am still trying to piece together exactly what happened, and how that

could have been prevented.

I heard from another rider that somebody got sandwiched between two

riders. Riding that close at 52 mph probably isn't a good idea.

Or maybe someone hit a fallen water bottle - there were certainly a

number of water bottles that fell at the beginning of the descent.

Shouldn't we all know enough to be sure bottles are firmly secured?

As for my crash, when I saw guys going down ahead, I went to the left,

crossing the yellow line; I should have been braking harder. As I came

back across to avoid hitting the pickup truck and trailer, I had to

brake hard. Somebody hit my back wheel, knocking my tire off my rim.

Of course that locked up my rear wheel, and I begin to skid sideways,

laying it over on my right side. I hit the ground with my hip and

shoulder and my bike flipped out from under me. I ended up about 70'

ahead of the seriously injured guy who went down.

Somebody suggested a neutral descent for the Cat 3/4 field.

I would like to hear from anyone else involved or anyone who saw what

happened.

Thanks,

Steve Getsiv

-----Original Message-----

From: kevin maier [mailto:kma-@darkwing.uoregon.edu]

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:46 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3/4 crash at Cascade?

Does anybody have an update on the fellow who went down on that first

descent off Mt. Bachelor in Friday's Cat 3/4 race? I hope he's OK, as

that was positively the most brutal crash I've ever seen.

thanks for any information,

kevin

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Steve Getsiv

2004-07-13

I also went down in that crash. I believe the seriously injured rider

was from Logie Velo.

I am still trying to piece together exactly what happened, and how that

could have been prevented.

I heard from another rider that somebody got sandwiched between two

riders. Riding that close at 52 mph probably isn't a good idea.

Or maybe someone hit a fallen water bottle - there were certainly a

number of water bottles that fell at the beginning of the descent.

Shouldn't we all know enough to be sure bottles are firmly secured?

As for my crash, when I saw guys going down ahead, I went to the left,

crossing the yellow line; I should have been braking harder. As I came

back across to avoid hitting the pickup truck and trailer, I had to

brake hard. Somebody hit my back wheel, knocking my tire off my rim.

Of course that locked up my rear wheel, and I begin to skid sideways,

laying it over on my right side. I hit the ground with my hip and

shoulder and my bike flipped out from under me. I ended up about 70'

ahead of the seriously injured guy who went down.

Somebody suggested a neutral descent for the Cat 3/4 field.

I would like to hear from anyone else involved or anyone who saw what

happened.

Thanks,

Steve Getsiv

-----Original Message-----

From: kevin maier [mailto:kma-@darkwing.uoregon.edu]

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:46 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cat 3/4 crash at Cascade?

Does anybody have an update on the fellow who went down on that first

descent off Mt. Bachelor in Friday's Cat 3/4 race? I hope he's OK, as

that was positively the most brutal crash I've ever seen.

thanks for any information,

kevin

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

kevin maier

2004-07-13

Does anybody have an update on the fellow who went down on that first

descent off Mt. Bachelor in Friday's Cat 3/4 race? I hope he's OK, as

that was positively the most brutal crash I've ever seen.

thanks for any information,

kevin