OBRA: OBRA Chat: UPS Ruined my Bike

UPS Ruined my Bike

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shane.-@comcast.net

2004-07-21

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You still have some legal action you can take... You can go to small claims court.

-------------- Original message --------------

Abstract: Don?t use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx instead. Buying insurance is a waste of your money since they don?t pay anyway. Bike boxes aren?t designed to ship bikes ?one at a time.?

Pictures here:

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg

http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg

In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx cyclocross bicycle through Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500 plus shipping. I suggested that the seller use FedEx Ground since that is the cheapest method to ship bicycles. He told me that he had heard some of his acquaintances complain about FedEx Ground and that he preferred UPS. He had a UPS account and had used UPS for many years without incident. I assented.

On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the bicycle to me using UPS. He insured the bike for the full purchase price of $1,500. I received the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked the bike, I discovered that there was damage on the down tube. The damage amounted to two dents and some scratches to the decals and finish. The damage occurred when the shipping box was compressed and the hub of one of the wheels was pressed into the down tube. Each dent must have occurred during a separate compression event. It would have been very upsetting if the damage were merely cosmetic. However, the damage may have compromised the structural integrity of the bicycle frame.

A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the down tube of at least the size of a quarter will seriously compromise the frame integrity. I purchased this bike to race. Racing, especially cyclocross racing, puts high stresses on bicycle frames. Racing this frame will cause it to fail.

The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed the bicycle in a box specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box). He put padding on all the frame tubes, bagged and taped all loose items, and cut cardboard baffles to prevent the wheels from shifting. In other words, he packed the bike very well. In fact, he put padding around the down tube and there is a hole in the padding where the hub was pressed through. There is no question that the damage occurred in transit.

The seller and I talked about the damage and he filed a claim with UPS. The seller also formulated a plan to repair the bike. He would be able to purchase a new frame through his sponsor?s bicycle shop for cost. He would then ship me the frame for a total cost of about $750-$800 ? far shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee came out to my house and inspected the bike and the packing materials.

On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I received the bike, UPS informed the seller that the insurance company denied the claim. He appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly with the insurance representaive of Crawford and Co. (the insurance company UPS uses), he finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was still denied. The insurance agent stated that UPS stipulates that all packages must be buffered by 2 inches of foam packing. The agent further claimed that bike boxes were designed to be transported en mass on pallets and that they were unsuitable for standard shipping.

I am very disappointed that the claim was denied. The bicycle was well packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing job and commented that it was more than they do when shipping bikes. The bike was obviously damaged in transit through significant compression loading. No matter what monetary resolution the seller and I agree to, the bike frame is unusable for racing. It took us almost two months to learn of the final resolution. Nothing about this experience has been good.

Going into the claim process, I speculated that there would be three possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely manner and everyone was happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some prodding, or 3) UPS denied the claim. I thought that the third outcome was the least likely. At this point, I have no recourse other than to let as many people as possible hear about my poor experience with UPS.

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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You still have some legal action you can take... You can go to small claims court. 

<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- 

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<DIV class=Section1>

Abstract: Don?t use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx instead. Buying insurance is a waste of your money since they don?t pay anyway. Bike boxes aren?t designed to ship bikes ?one at a time.?



Pictures here:



<A href="http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg">http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg</A>

<A href="http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg">http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg</A>

<A href="http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg">http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg</A>



In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx cyclocross bicycle through Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500 plus shipping. I suggested that the seller use FedEx Ground since that is the cheapest method to ship bicycles. He told me that he had heard some of his acquaintances complain about FedEx Ground and that he preferred UPS. He had a UPS account and had used UPS for many years without incident. I assented.



On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the bicycle to me using UPS. He insured the bike for the full purchase price of $1,500. I received the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked the bike, I discovered that there was damage on the down tube. The damage amounted to two dents and some scratches to the decals and finish. The damage occurred when the shipping box was compressed and the hub of one of the wheels was pressed into the down tube. Each dent must have occurred during a separate compression event. It would have been very upsetting if the damage were merely cosmetic. However, the damage may have compromised the structural integrity of the bicycle frame.



A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the down tube of at least the size of a quarter will seriously compromise the frame integrity. I purchased this bike to race. Racing, especially cyclocross racing, puts high stresses on bicycle frames. Racing this frame will cause it to fail.



The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed the bicycle in a box specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box). He put padding on all the frame tubes, bagged and taped all loose items, and cut cardboard baffles to prevent the wheels from shifting. In other words, he packed the bike very well. In fact, he put padding around the down tube and there is a hole in the padding where the hub was pressed through. There is no question that the damage occurred in transit.



The seller and I talked about the damage and he filed a claim with UPS. The seller also formulated a plan to repair the bike. He would be able to purchase a new frame through his sponsor?s bicycle shop for cost. He would then ship me the frame for a total cost of about $750-$800 ? far shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee came out to my house and inspected the bike and the packing materials.



On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I received the bike, UPS informed the seller that the insurance company denied the claim. He appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly with the insurance representaive of Crawford and Co. (the insurance company UPS uses), he finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was still denied. The insurance agent stated that UPS stipulates that all packages must be buffered by 2 inches of foam packing. The agent further claimed that bike boxes were designed to be transported en mass on pallets and that they were unsuitable for standard shipping.



I am very disappointed that the claim was denied. The bicycle was well packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing job and commented that it was more than they do when shipping bikes. The bike was obviously damaged in transit through significant compression loading. No matter what monetary resolution the seller and I agree to, the bike frame is unusable for racing. It took us almost two months to learn of the final resolution. Nothing about this experience has been good.



Going into the claim process, I speculated that there would be three possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely manner and everyone was happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some prodding, or 3) UPS denied the claim. I thought that the third outcome was the least likely. At this point, I have no recourse other than to let as many people as possible hear about my poor experience with UPS.

</DIV><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>

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Hoyer, Brooke

2004-07-21

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Actually, I would happily send on replies to UPS myself - I promise I'm

not gathering email addresses to spam. If you make a comment or two,

I'll forward it to UPS.

To reiterate, the seller did purchase insurance and UPS's insurance

company has denied the claim.

Thanks,

Brooke

-----Original Message-----

From: Hoyer, Brooke

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:23 AM

To: Steve Getsiv; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] UPS Ruined my Bike

Anyone who feels compelled to let UPS know how they feel can send an

email to:

customer-@ups.com

and reference tracking number: 1Z 11T 728 03 9515 3729

Thanks,

Brooke

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Getsiv [mailto:ste-@ocfp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:03 AM

To: Hoyer, Brooke

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] UPS Ruined my Bike

If you have contact information for UPS then you should post to the web

site so we can all tell UPS how much we disagree with their policy and

decision.

- Steve

-----Original Message-----

From: Hoyer, Brooke [mailto:brooke-@hp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:56 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] UPS Ruined my Bike

Abstract: Don't use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx instead. Buying

insurance is a waste of your money since they don't pay anyway. Bike

boxes aren't designed to ship bikes "one at a time."

Pictures here:

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg

http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg

In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx cyclocross bicycle

through Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500 plus

shipping. I suggested that the seller use FedEx Ground since that is the

cheapest method to ship bicycles. He told me that he had heard some of

his acquaintances complain about FedEx Ground and that he preferred UPS.

He had a UPS account and had used UPS for many years without incident. I

assented.

On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the bicycle to me

using UPS. He insured the bike for the full purchase price of $1,500. I

received the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked the bike, I

discovered that there was damage on the down tube. The damage amounted

to two dents and some scratches to the decals and finish. The damage

occurred when the shipping box was compressed and the hub of one of the

wheels was pressed into the down tube. Each dent must have occurred

during a separate compression event. It would have been very upsetting

if the damage were merely cosmetic. However, the damage may have

compromised the structural integrity of the bicycle frame.

A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the down tube of

at least the size of a quarter will seriously compromise the frame

integrity. I purchased this bike to race. Racing, especially cyclocross

racing, puts high stresses on bicycle frames. Racing this frame will

cause it to fail.

The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed the bicycle in

a box specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box). He put

padding on all the frame tubes, bagged and taped all loose items, and

cut cardboard baffles to prevent the wheels from shifting. In other

words, he packed the bike very well. In fact, he put padding around the

down tube and there is a hole in the padding where the hub was pressed

through. There is no question that the damage occurred in transit.

The seller and I talked about the damage and he filed a claim

with UPS. The seller also formulated a plan to repair the bike. He would

be able to purchase a new frame through his sponsor's bicycle shop for

cost. He would then ship me the frame for a total cost of about

$750-$800 - far shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee came

out to my house and inspected the bike and the packing materials.

On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I received the

bike, UPS informed the seller that the insurance company denied the

claim. He appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly with the

insurance representaive of Crawford and Co. (the insurance company UPS

uses), he finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was still

denied. The insurance agent stated that UPS stipulates that all packages

must be buffered by 2 inches of foam packing. The agent further claimed

that bike boxes were designed to be transported en mass on pallets and

that they were unsuitable for standard shipping.

I am very disappointed that the claim was denied. The bicycle

was well packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing job and

commented that it was more than they do when shipping bikes. The bike

was obviously damaged in transit through significant compression

loading. No matter what monetary resolution the seller and I agree to,

the bike frame is unusable for racing. It took us almost two months to

learn of the final resolution. Nothing about this experience has been

good.

Going into the claim process, I speculated that there would be

three possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely manner and

everyone was happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some prodding, or

3) UPS denied the claim. I thought that the third outcome was the least

likely. At this point, I have no recourse other than to let as many

people as possible hear about my poor experience with UPS.

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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Actually, I would happily send on replies

to UPS myself – I promise I’m not gathering email addresses to

spam. If you make a comment or two, I’ll forward it to UPS.

 

To reiterate, the seller did purchase

insurance and UPS’s insurance company has denied the claim.

 

Thanks,

Brooke

 

-----Original Message----- 

From: Hoyer, Brooke 

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004

11:23 AM 

To: Steve Getsiv; ob-@topica.com 

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] UPS

Ruined my Bike

 

<div>

Anyone who feels compelled to let

UPS know how they feel can send an email to:

 

customer-@ups.com

 

and reference tracking number: 1Z

11T 728 03 9515 3729

 

Thanks,

Brooke

 

-----Original Message----- 

From: Steve Getsiv [mailto:ste-@ocfp.com]

 

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004

11:03 AM 

To: Hoyer, Brooke 

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] UPS

Ruined my Bike

 

<div>

If you

have contact information for UPS then you should post to the web site so

we can all tell UPS how much we disagree with their policy and decision.

</div>

<div>

 

</div>

<div>

- Steve

</div>

<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

-----Original

Message----- 

From: Hoyer, Brooke

[mailto:brooke-@hp.com] 

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004

10:56 AM 

To: ob-@topica.com 

Subject: [OBRA Chat] UPS Ruined my

Bike

Abstract: Don’t use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx

instead. Buying insurance is a waste of your money since they don’t pay

anyway. Bike boxes aren’t designed to ship bikes “one at a

time.”

 

Pictures here:

 

<a

href="http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg">http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg</a>

<a

href="http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg">http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg</a>

<a href="http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg">http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg</a>

 

In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx

cyclocross bicycle through Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500

plus shipping. I suggested that the seller use FedEx Ground since that is the

cheapest method to ship bicycles. He told me that he had heard some of his

acquaintances complain about FedEx Ground and that he preferred UPS. He had a

UPS account and had used UPS for many years without incident. I assented.

 

On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the

bicycle to me using UPS. He insured the bike for the full purchase price of

$1,500. I received the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked the bike,

I discovered that there was damage on the down tube. The damage amounted to two

dents and some scratches to the decals and finish. The damage occurred when the

shipping box was compressed and the hub of one of the wheels was pressed into

the down tube. Each dent must have occurred during a separate compression

event. It would have been very upsetting if the damage were merely cosmetic.

However, the damage may have compromised the structural integrity of the

bicycle frame.

 

A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the

down tube of at least the size of a quarter will seriously compromise the frame

integrity. I purchased this bike to race. Racing, especially cyclocross racing,

puts high stresses on bicycle frames. Racing this frame will cause it to fail.

 

The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed the

bicycle in a box specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box). He put padding

on all the frame tubes, bagged and taped all loose items, and cut cardboard

baffles to prevent the wheels from shifting. In other words, he packed the bike

very well. In fact, he put padding around the down tube and there is a hole in

the padding where the hub was pressed through. There is no question that the

damage occurred in transit.

 

The seller and I talked about the damage and he filed

a claim with UPS. The seller also formulated a plan to repair the bike. He

would be able to purchase a new frame through his sponsor’s bicycle shop

for cost. He would then ship me the frame for a total cost of about $750-$800

– far shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee came out to my

house and inspected the bike and the packing materials.

 

On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I

received the bike, UPS informed the seller that the insurance company denied

the claim. He appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly with the

insurance representaive of Crawford and Co. (the insurance company UPS uses),

he finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was still denied. The

insurance agent stated that UPS stipulates that all packages must be buffered

by 2 inches of foam packing. The agent further claimed that bike boxes were

designed to be transported en mass on pallets and that they were unsuitable for

standard shipping.

 

I am very disappointed that the claim was denied. The

bicycle was well packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing job and

commented that it was more than they do when shipping bikes. The bike was

obviously damaged in transit through significant compression loading. No matter

what monetary resolution the seller and I agree to, the bike frame is unusable

for racing. It took us almost two months to learn of the final resolution.

Nothing about this experience has been good.

 

Going into the claim process, I speculated that there

would be three possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely manner and

everyone was happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some prodding, or 3) UPS

denied the claim. I thought that the third outcome was the least likely. At

this point, I have no recourse other than to let as many people as possible

hear about my poor experience with UPS.

 

<pre style='margin-left:1.0in'>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.</pre><pre

style='margin-left:1.0in'>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org</pre><pre

style='margin-left:1.0in'>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</pre></blockquote>

<pre style='margin-left:1.0in'> </pre><pre style='margin-left:

1.0in'> </pre><pre

style='margin-left:1.0in'>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.</pre><pre

style='margin-left:1.0in'>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org</pre><pre

style='margin-left:1.0in'>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</pre><pre

style='margin-left:1.0in'> </pre><pre style='margin-left:

style='margin-left:1.0in'> </pre></div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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Hoyer, Brooke

2004-07-21

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C46F4F.B74FDACF

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Anyone who feels compelled to let UPS know how they feel can send an

email to:

customer-@ups.com

and reference tracking number: 1Z 11T 728 03 9515 3729

Thanks,

Brooke

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Getsiv [mailto:ste-@ocfp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:03 AM

To: Hoyer, Brooke

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] UPS Ruined my Bike

If you have contact information for UPS then you should post to the web

site so we can all tell UPS how much we disagree with their policy and

decision.

- Steve

-----Original Message-----

From: Hoyer, Brooke [mailto:brooke-@hp.com]

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:56 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] UPS Ruined my Bike

Abstract: Don't use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx instead. Buying

insurance is a waste of your money since they don't pay anyway. Bike

boxes aren't designed to ship bikes "one at a time."

Pictures here:

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg

http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg

In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx cyclocross bicycle

through Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500 plus

shipping. I suggested that the seller use FedEx Ground since that is the

cheapest method to ship bicycles. He told me that he had heard some of

his acquaintances complain about FedEx Ground and that he preferred UPS.

He had a UPS account and had used UPS for many years without incident. I

assented.

On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the bicycle to me

using UPS. He insured the bike for the full purchase price of $1,500. I

received the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked the bike, I

discovered that there was damage on the down tube. The damage amounted

to two dents and some scratches to the decals and finish. The damage

occurred when the shipping box was compressed and the hub of one of the

wheels was pressed into the down tube. Each dent must have occurred

during a separate compression event. It would have been very upsetting

if the damage were merely cosmetic. However, the damage may have

compromised the structural integrity of the bicycle frame.

A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the down tube of

at least the size of a quarter will seriously compromise the frame

integrity. I purchased this bike to race. Racing, especially cyclocross

racing, puts high stresses on bicycle frames. Racing this frame will

cause it to fail.

The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed the bicycle in

a box specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box). He put

padding on all the frame tubes, bagged and taped all loose items, and

cut cardboard baffles to prevent the wheels from shifting. In other

words, he packed the bike very well. In fact, he put padding around the

down tube and there is a hole in the padding where the hub was pressed

through. There is no question that the damage occurred in transit.

The seller and I talked about the damage and he filed a claim

with UPS. The seller also formulated a plan to repair the bike. He would

be able to purchase a new frame through his sponsor's bicycle shop for

cost. He would then ship me the frame for a total cost of about

$750-$800 - far shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee came

out to my house and inspected the bike and the packing materials.

On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I received the

bike, UPS informed the seller that the insurance company denied the

claim. He appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly with the

insurance representaive of Crawford and Co. (the insurance company UPS

uses), he finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was still

denied. The insurance agent stated that UPS stipulates that all packages

must be buffered by 2 inches of foam packing. The agent further claimed

that bike boxes were designed to be transported en mass on pallets and

that they were unsuitable for standard shipping.

I am very disappointed that the claim was denied. The bicycle

was well packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing job and

commented that it was more than they do when shipping bikes. The bike

was obviously damaged in transit through significant compression

loading. No matter what monetary resolution the seller and I agree to,

the bike frame is unusable for racing. It took us almost two months to

learn of the final resolution. Nothing about this experience has been

good.

Going into the claim process, I speculated that there would be

three possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely manner and

everyone was happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some prodding, or

3) UPS denied the claim. I thought that the third outcome was the least

likely. At this point, I have no recourse other than to let as many

people as possible hear about my poor experience with UPS.

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01C46F4F.B74FDACF

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Anyone who feels compelled to let UPS know how they feel

can send an email to:

 

customer-@ups.com

 

and reference tracking number: 1Z 11T 728 03 9515 3729

 

Thanks,

Brooke

 

-----Original Message----- 

From: Steve Getsiv

[mailto:ste-@ocfp.com] 

Sent: Wednesday, July

21, 2004 11:03 AM 

To: Hoyer, Brooke 

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] UPS

Ruined my Bike

 

<div>

If you have contact

information for UPS then you should post to the web site so we can all

tell UPS how much we disagree with their policy and decision.

</div>

<div>

 

</div>

<div>

- Steve

</div>

<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

-----Original

Message----- 

From: Hoyer, Brooke [mailto:brooke-@hp.com]

 

Sent: Wednesday, July

21, 2004 10:56 AM 

To: ob-@topica.com 

Subject: [OBRA Chat] UPS Ruined my

Bike

Abstract: Don’t use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx

instead. Buying insurance is a waste of your money since they don’t pay

anyway. Bike boxes aren’t designed to ship bikes “one at a

time.”

 

Pictures here:

 

<a

href="http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg">http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg</a>

<a

href="http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg">http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg</a>

<a href="http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg">http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg</a>

 

In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx

cyclocross bicycle through Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500

plus shipping. I suggested that the seller use FedEx Ground since that is the

cheapest method to ship bicycles. He told me that he had heard some of his

acquaintances complain about FedEx Ground and that he preferred UPS. He had a

UPS account and had used UPS for many years without incident. I assented.

 

On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the bicycle to me using UPS. He insured the bike for the full

purchase price of $1,500. I received the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked the bike, I discovered that there was damage on the down tube. The

damage amounted to two dents and some scratches to the decals and finish. The

damage occurred when the shipping box was compressed and the hub of one of the

wheels was pressed into the down tube. Each dent must have occurred during a

separate compression event. It would have been very upsetting if the damage

were merely cosmetic. However, the damage may have compromised the structural

integrity of the bicycle frame.

 

A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the

down tube of at least the size of a quarter will seriously compromise the frame

integrity. I purchased this bike to race. Racing, especially cyclocross racing,

puts high stresses on bicycle frames. Racing this frame will cause it to fail.

 

The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed the

bicycle in a box specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box). He put

padding on all the frame tubes, bagged and taped all loose items, and cut

cardboard baffles to prevent the wheels from shifting. In other words, he

packed the bike very well. In fact, he put padding around the down tube and

there is a hole in the padding where the hub was pressed through. There is no

question that the damage occurred in transit.

 

The seller and I talked about the damage and he filed

a claim with UPS. The seller also formulated a plan to repair the bike. He

would be able to purchase a new frame through his sponsor’s bicycle shop

for cost. He would then ship me the frame for a total cost of about $750-$800

– far shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee came out to my

house and inspected the bike and the packing materials.

 

On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I received the bike, UPS informed the seller that the insurance

company denied the claim. He appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly

with the insurance representaive of Crawford and Co. (the insurance company UPS

uses), he finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was still denied. The

insurance agent stated that UPS stipulates that all packages must be buffered

by 2 inches of foam packing. The agent further claimed that bike boxes were

designed to be transported en mass on pallets and that they were unsuitable for

standard shipping.

 

I am very disappointed that the claim was denied. The

bicycle was well packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing job and

commented that it was more than they do when shipping bikes. The bike was

obviously damaged in transit through significant compression loading. No matter

what monetary resolution the seller and I agree to, the bike frame is unusable

for racing. It took us almost two months to learn of the final resolution.

Nothing about this experience has been good.

 

Going into the claim process, I speculated that there

would be three possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely manner and

everyone was happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some prodding, or 3) UPS

denied the claim. I thought that the third outcome was the least likely. At

this point, I have no recourse other than to let as many people as possible

hear about my poor experience with UPS.

 

<pre style='margin-left:.5in'>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.</pre><pre

style='margin-left:.5in'>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org</pre><pre

style='margin-left:.5in'>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</pre><pre

style='margin-left:.5in'>

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andrew.-@farmersinsurance.com

2004-07-21

I cannot say enough good things about using FEDEX to ship a bike. It is

cheaper and much better service.

sorry to hear about bike accident with box.

I have shipped three expensive bikes with Fed ex cross country and it was A

plus

Drew Holmes

Bend, Or

Steven B

2004-07-21

Sorry to hear. FedEx Ground (sellers choice not mine)

ruined mine on two occasions and had THE worse

customer service. You can never guarantee a safe

shipment with any carrier but the insurance came

through for me so always add in the extra insurance

even though you'll have to fight to get it.

And no I don't work for UPS.:)

sb

--- "Hoyer, Brooke" <brooke-@hp.com> wrote:

Abstract: Don't use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx

instead. Buying

insurance is a waste of your money since they don't

pay anyway. Bike

boxes aren't designed to ship bikes "one at a time."

Pictures here:

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg

http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg

In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx

cyclocross bicycle through

Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500

plus shipping. I

suggested that the seller use FedEx Ground since

that is the cheapest

method to ship bicycles. He told me that he had

heard some of his

acquaintances complain about FedEx Ground and that

he preferred UPS. He

had a UPS account and had used UPS for many years

without incident. I

assented.

On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the

bicycle to me using UPS.

He insured the bike for the full purchase price of

$1,500. I received

the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked

the bike, I discovered

that there was damage on the down tube. The damage

amounted to two dents

and some scratches to the decals and finish. The

damage occurred when

the shipping box was compressed and the hub of one

of the wheels was

pressed into the down tube. Each dent must have

occurred during a

separate compression event. It would have been very

upsetting if the

damage were merely cosmetic. However, the damage may

have compromised

the structural integrity of the bicycle frame.

A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the

down tube of at

least the size of a quarter will seriously

compromise the frame

integrity. I purchased this bike to race. Racing,

especially cyclocross

racing, puts high stresses on bicycle frames. Racing

this frame will

cause it to fail.

The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed

the bicycle in a box

specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box).

He put padding on

all the frame tubes, bagged and taped all loose

items, and cut cardboard

baffles to prevent the wheels from shifting. In

other words, he packed

the bike very well. In fact, he put padding around

the down tube and

there is a hole in the padding where the hub was

pressed through. There

is no question that the damage occurred in transit.

The seller and I talked about the damage and he

filed a claim with UPS.

The seller also formulated a plan to repair the

bike. He would be able

to purchase a new frame through his sponsor's

bicycle shop for cost. He

would then ship me the frame for a total cost of

about $750-$800 - far

shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee

came out to my house

and inspected the bike and the packing materials.

On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I

received the bike, UPS

informed the seller that the insurance company

denied the claim. He

appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly with

the insurance

representaive of Crawford and Co. (the insurance

company UPS uses), he

finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was

still denied. The

insurance agent stated that UPS stipulates that all

packages must be

buffered by 2 inches of foam packing. The agent

further claimed that

bike boxes were designed to be transported en mass

on pallets and that

they were unsuitable for standard shipping.

I am very disappointed that the claim was denied.

The bicycle was well

packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing

job and commented

that it was more than they do when shipping bikes.

The bike was

obviously damaged in transit through significant

compression loading. No

matter what monetary resolution the seller and I

agree to, the bike

frame is unusable for racing. It took us almost two

months to learn of

the final resolution. Nothing about this experience

has been good.

Going into the claim process, I speculated that

there would be three

possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely

manner and everyone

was happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some

prodding, or 3) UPS

denied the claim. I thought that the third outcome

was the least likely.

At this point, I have no recourse other than to let

as many people as

possible hear about my poor experience with UPS.

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

__________________________________

Do you Yahoo!?

Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!

http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/

Hoyer, Brooke

2004-07-21

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C46F4C.075387F5

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Abstract: Don't use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx instead. Buying

insurance is a waste of your money since they don't pay anyway. Bike

boxes aren't designed to ship bikes "one at a time."

Pictures here:

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg

http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg

In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx cyclocross bicycle through

Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500 plus shipping. I

suggested that the seller use FedEx Ground since that is the cheapest

method to ship bicycles. He told me that he had heard some of his

acquaintances complain about FedEx Ground and that he preferred UPS. He

had a UPS account and had used UPS for many years without incident. I

assented.

On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the bicycle to me using UPS.

He insured the bike for the full purchase price of $1,500. I received

the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked the bike, I discovered

that there was damage on the down tube. The damage amounted to two dents

and some scratches to the decals and finish. The damage occurred when

the shipping box was compressed and the hub of one of the wheels was

pressed into the down tube. Each dent must have occurred during a

separate compression event. It would have been very upsetting if the

damage were merely cosmetic. However, the damage may have compromised

the structural integrity of the bicycle frame.

A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the down tube of at

least the size of a quarter will seriously compromise the frame

integrity. I purchased this bike to race. Racing, especially cyclocross

racing, puts high stresses on bicycle frames. Racing this frame will

cause it to fail.

The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed the bicycle in a box

specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box). He put padding on

all the frame tubes, bagged and taped all loose items, and cut cardboard

baffles to prevent the wheels from shifting. In other words, he packed

the bike very well. In fact, he put padding around the down tube and

there is a hole in the padding where the hub was pressed through. There

is no question that the damage occurred in transit.

The seller and I talked about the damage and he filed a claim with UPS.

The seller also formulated a plan to repair the bike. He would be able

to purchase a new frame through his sponsor's bicycle shop for cost. He

would then ship me the frame for a total cost of about $750-$800 - far

shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee came out to my house

and inspected the bike and the packing materials.

On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I received the bike, UPS

informed the seller that the insurance company denied the claim. He

appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly with the insurance

representaive of Crawford and Co. (the insurance company UPS uses), he

finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was still denied. The

insurance agent stated that UPS stipulates that all packages must be

buffered by 2 inches of foam packing. The agent further claimed that

bike boxes were designed to be transported en mass on pallets and that

they were unsuitable for standard shipping.

I am very disappointed that the claim was denied. The bicycle was well

packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing job and commented

that it was more than they do when shipping bikes. The bike was

obviously damaged in transit through significant compression loading. No

matter what monetary resolution the seller and I agree to, the bike

frame is unusable for racing. It took us almost two months to learn of

the final resolution. Nothing about this experience has been good.

Going into the claim process, I speculated that there would be three

possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely manner and everyone

was happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some prodding, or 3) UPS

denied the claim. I thought that the third outcome was the least likely.

At this point, I have no recourse other than to let as many people as

possible hear about my poor experience with UPS.

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<div class=Section1>

Abstract: Don’t use UPS to ship bikes, use FedEx instead. Buying

insurance is a waste of your money since they don’t pay anyway. Bike

boxes aren’t designed to ship bikes “one at a time.”

 

Pictures here:

 

<a href="http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg">http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_1.jpg</a>

<a href="http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg">http://www.hoyerfamily.com/images/merckx_2.jpg</a>

<a href="http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg">http://hoyerfamily.com/images/ding_3.jpg</a>

 

In May of this year, I bought an Eddy Merckx cyclocross bicycle through

Ebay. The purchase price of the bicycle was $1,500 plus shipping. I suggested

that the seller use FedEx Ground since that is the cheapest method to ship

bicycles. He told me that he had heard some of his acquaintances complain about

FedEx Ground and that he preferred UPS. He had a UPS account and had used UPS

for many years without incident. I assented.

 

On Monday, May 17, 2004, the seller shipped the bicycle

to me using UPS. He insured the bike for the full purchase price of $1,500. I

received the bike on Friday, May 21, 2004. When I unpacked the bike, I

discovered that there was damage on the down tube. The damage amounted to two

dents and some scratches to the decals and finish. The damage occurred when the

shipping box was compressed and the hub of one of the wheels was pressed into

the down tube. Each dent must have occurred during a separate compression

event. It would have been very upsetting if the damage were merely cosmetic.

However, the damage may have compromised the structural integrity of the

bicycle frame.

 

A frame is tolerant to some dents but a dent on the down tube of at

least the size of a quarter will seriously compromise the frame integrity. I

purchased this bike to race. Racing, especially cyclocross racing, puts high

stresses on bicycle frames. Racing this frame will cause it to fail.

 

The seller has shipped bicycles before. He packed the bicycle in a box

specifically designed to ship bicycles (a bike box). He put padding on all the frame

tubes, bagged and taped all loose items, and cut cardboard baffles to prevent

the wheels from shifting. In other words, he packed the bike very well. In

fact, he put padding around the down tube and there is a hole in the padding

where the hub was pressed through. There is no question that the damage

occurred in transit.

 

The seller and I talked about the damage and he filed a claim with UPS.

The seller also formulated a plan to repair the bike. He would be able to

purchase a new frame through his sponsor’s bicycle shop for cost. He

would then ship me the frame for a total cost of about $750-$800 – far

shy of the insured amount of $1,500. A UPS employee came out to my house and

inspected the bike and the packing materials.

 

On June 22, 2004, one month and one day after I received

the bike, UPS informed the seller that the insurance company denied the claim. He

appealed. After playing telephone tag endlessly with the insurance representaive

of Crawford and Co. (the insurance company UPS uses), he finally found out July 15, 2004 that the claim was still denied. The insurance agent stated that UPS

stipulates that all packages must be buffered by 2 inches of foam packing. The

agent further claimed that bike boxes were designed to be transported en mass

on pallets and that they were unsuitable for standard shipping.

 

I am very disappointed that the claim was denied. The bicycle was well

packed. In fact, a bike shop owner saw the packing job and commented that it

was more than they do when shipping bikes. The bike was obviously damaged in

transit through significant compression loading. No matter what monetary

resolution the seller and I agree to, the bike frame is unusable for racing. It

took us almost two months to learn of the final resolution. Nothing about this

experience has been good.

 

Going into the claim process, I speculated that there would be three

possible outcomes: 1) UPS paid the claim in a timely manner and everyone was

happy, 2) UPS paid the claim only after some prodding, or 3) UPS denied the claim.

I thought that the third outcome was the least likely. At this point, I have no

recourse other than to let as many people as possible hear about my poor

experience with UPS.

 

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