OB-@topica.com

Philip D Barila

2004-09-01



Writing as a beneficiary of the current open policy, since I've been in

Colorado since 2001, I'd vote for keeping it open. I enjoy reading about

the antics in the Oregon peleton. :-)



Phil



 -----Original Message-----

From: Mike Murray [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:23 AM

To: OBRA Remailer

Subject: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com



[Snip]



 I think that discussion on this list will be a good way

to assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.



Matthew Wolpert

2004-09-01



I second the "no anonymous postings" suggestion





On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:22:32 -0700, Jerald Powell <jpow-@spiritone.com> wrote:

 Mike and Candi. I concur with Dan, Andrew, Matthew, Cheryl, and

probably most that the list should remain open. However, I'd suggest

that it follow the common protocol of rejecting anonymous postings.

Anonymity never contributes to civil discourse and frequently inhibits

rather than encourages candor and free exchange. (just my two

cents)....



BTW, for anyone interested in the civil value of dissent, and the

founders thoughts on why it needed to be protected, even encouraged...

read Federalist "10" in which Madison expounds on the danger of

undisputed public opinion, and tyranny of the majority (The Federalist

Papers, A. Hamilton, J. Jay and J. Madison).



Jerry Powell



On Sep 1, 2004, at 10:22 AM, Dan H wrote:



 "I think that discussion on this list will be a good way to assess

opinion

to see if there should be a policy change."



Keep the list open to everyone everywhere wherever there are computers.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Murray" <mike.m-@obra.org>

To: "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com





 The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated and

membership

is

 open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed for him

to

post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain

about

a

 behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by adopting it

yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works

fine.

 Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own does not

impose

an

 onerous burden on me.



Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people

that

 are not current annual members. This is not so much because I wish to

discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think

that

access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are

giving

it

 away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA should

get

$15

 from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the list is

primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as

possible

and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I

can

see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good

way

to

 assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.



Mike Murray



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205



503 222 7173

503 799 7823



jpow-@spiritone.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Jerald Powell

2004-09-01





--Apple-Mail-7--208364122

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charset=US-ASCII;

format=flowed



Mike and Candi. I concur with Dan, Andrew, Matthew, Cheryl, and

probably most that the list should remain open. However, I'd suggest

that it follow the common protocol of rejecting anonymous postings.

Anonymity never contributes to civil discourse and frequently inhibits

rather than encourages candor and free exchange. (just my two

cents)....



BTW, for anyone interested in the civil value of dissent, and the

founders thoughts on why it needed to be protected, even encouraged...

read Federalist "10" in which Madison expounds on the danger of

undisputed public opinion, and tyranny of the majority (The Federalist

Papers, A. Hamilton, J. Jay and J. Madison).



Jerry Powell







On Sep 1, 2004, at 10:22 AM, Dan H wrote:



 "I think that discussion on this list will be a good way to assess

opinion

to see if there should be a policy change."



Keep the list open to everyone everywhere wherever there are computers.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Murray" <mike.m-@obra.org>

To: "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com





 The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated and

membership

is

 open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed for him

to

post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain

about

a

 behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by adopting it

yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works

fine.

 Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own does not

impose

an

 onerous burden on me.



Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people

that

 are not current annual members. This is not so much because I wish to

discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think

that

access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are

giving

it

 away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA should

get

$15

 from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the list is

primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as

possible

and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I

can

see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good

way

to

 assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.



Mike Murray



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Jerald M Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1926 SW Madison Street

Portland, OR 97205



503 222 7173

503 799 7823



jpow-@spiritone.com



--Apple-Mail-7--208364122

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Type: text/enriched;

charset=US-ASCII



Mike and Candi. I concur with Dan, Andrew, Matthew, Cheryl, and

probably most that the list should remain open. However, I'd suggest

that it follow the common protocol of rejecting anonymous postings.

Anonymity never contributes to civil discourse and frequently inhibits

rather than encourages candor and free exchange. (just my two

cents)....





BTW, for anyone interested in the civil value of dissent, and the

founders thoughts on why it needed to be protected, even encouraged...

read Federalist "10" in which Madison expounds on the danger of

undisputed public opinion, and tyranny of the majority (<underline>The

Federalist Papers</underline>, A. Hamilton, J. Jay and J. Madison).





Jerry Powell









On Sep 1, 2004, at 10:22 AM, Dan H wrote:





<excerpt>"I think that discussion on this list will be a good way to

assess opinion



to see if there should be a policy change."





Keep the list open to everyone everywhere wherever there are computers.





----- Original Message -----



From: "Mike Murray" <<mike.m-@obra.org>



To: "OBRA Remailer" <<ob-@topica.com>



Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:22 AM



Subject: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com







<excerpt>The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated

and membership



</excerpt>is



<excerpt>open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed

for him to



post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain

about



</excerpt>a



<excerpt>behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by

adopting it



yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works



</excerpt>fine.



<excerpt>Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own

does not impose



</excerpt>an



<excerpt>onerous burden on me.





Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people



</excerpt>that



<excerpt>are not current annual members. This is not so much because

I wish to



discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think

that



access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are

giving



</excerpt>it



<excerpt>away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA

should get



</excerpt>$15



<excerpt>from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the

list is



primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as

possible



and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I

can



see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good

way



</excerpt>to



<excerpt>assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.





Mike Murray





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com













</excerpt>



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









</excerpt>Jerald M Powell, AICP



<italic><x-tad-smaller>Community Planning</x-tad-smaller></italic>



1926 SW Madison Street



Portland, OR 97205





503 222 7173



503 799 7823





jpow-@spiritone.com





--Apple-Mail-7--208364122--



Andrew Beehler

2004-09-01



As annoying as some e-mail topics can get, i don't think there needs to be

any policy change, it's rather easy to skip over unwanted e-mails. And those

that really want to get involved in the discussion can, there's always the

OBRARACE poss for those who want only racing info.



Andrew

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dan H" <br-@politesociety.com>

To: <mike.m-@obra.org>; "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com





 "I think that discussion on this list will be a good way to assess opinion

to see if there should be a policy change."



Keep the list open to everyone everywhere wherever there are computers.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Murray" <mike.m-@obra.org>

To: "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com





 The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated and

membership

 is

 open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed for him to

post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain

about

 a

 behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by adopting it

yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works

fine.

 Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own does not

impose

 an

 onerous burden on me.



Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people

that

 are not current annual members. This is not so much because I wish to

discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think

that

  access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are

giving

 it

 away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA should get

$15

 from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the list is

primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as

possible

  and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I

can

  see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good

way

 to

 assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.



Mike Murray



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Matthew Wolpert

2004-09-01



I agree, keep it open, even to people who aren't OBRA members...

marketing, marketing, marketing



On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:22:29 -0700, Dan H <br-@politesociety.com> wrote:

 "I think that discussion on this list will be a good way to assess opinion

to see if there should be a policy change."



Keep the list open to everyone everywhere wherever there are computers.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Murray" <mike.m-@obra.org>

To: "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com



 The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated and membership

is

 open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed for him to

post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain about

a

 behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by adopting it

yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works

fine.

 Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own does not impose

an

 onerous burden on me.



Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people

that

 are not current annual members. This is not so much because I wish to

discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think that

access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are giving

it

 away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA should get

$15

 from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the list is

primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as possible

and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I can

see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good way

to

 assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.



Mike Murray



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Dan H

2004-09-01



"I think that discussion on this list will be a good way to assess opinion

to see if there should be a policy change."



Keep the list open to everyone everywhere wherever there are computers.



----- Original Message -----

From: "Mike Murray" <mike.m-@obra.org>

To: "OBRA Remailer" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:22 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com





 The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated and membership

is

 open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed for him to

post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain about

a

 behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by adopting it

yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works

fine.

 Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own does not impose

an

 onerous burden on me.



Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people

that

 are not current annual members. This is not so much because I wish to

discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think that

access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are giving

it

 away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA should get

$15

 from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the list is

primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as possible

and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I can

see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good way

to

 assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.



Mike Murray



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Cheryl J. Willson

2004-09-01





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charset=US-ASCII;

format=flowed



I'd say that it takes some work to bother to keep people that aren't

members off and that is reason enough to not worry about it.





Begin forwarded message:



 From: Mike Murray <mike.m-@obra.org>

Date: September 1, 2004 9:22:45 AM PDT

To: OBRA Remailer <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] OB-@topica.com

Reply-To: mike.m-@obra.org



The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated and

membership is

open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed for him

to

post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain

about a

behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by adopting it

yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works

fine.

Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own does not

impose an

onerous burden on me.



Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people

that

are not current annual members. This is not so much because I wish to

discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think

that

access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are

giving it

away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA should

get $15

from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the list is

primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as

possible

and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I

can

see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good

way to

assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.



Mike Murray



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



--Apple-Mail-70--215181151

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Type: text/enriched;

charset=US-ASCII



I'd say that it takes some work to bother to keep people that aren't

members off and that is reason enough to not worry about it.







Begin forwarded message:





<excerpt><bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>From:

</color></bold>Mike Murray <<mike.m-@obra.org>



<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Date:

</color></bold>September 1, 2004 9:22:45 AM PDT



<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>To: </color></bold>OBRA

Remailer <<ob-@topica.com>



<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Subject: </color>[OBRA Chat]

OB-@topica.com



<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Reply-To:

</color></bold>mike.m-@obra.org





The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated and

membership is



open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed for him

to



post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain

about a



behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by adopting it



yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works

fine.



Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own does not

impose an



onerous burden on me.





Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people

that



are not current annual members. This is not so much because I wish to



discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think

that



access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are

giving it



away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA should

get $15



from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the list is



primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as

possible



and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I

can



see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good

way to



assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.





Mike Murray





To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com











</excerpt>

--Apple-Mail-70--215181151--



Mike Murray

2004-09-01



The current policy re: this list is that it is unmoderated and membership is

open to all. Richard Randleman is correct that it is allowed for him to

post on any subject but it does seem a bit disingenuous to complain about a

behavior in others and then to protest that behavior by adopting it

yourself. It is allowed, however, so feel free. My delete key works fine.

Reading off topic posts or opinions different from my own does not impose an

onerous burden on me.



Personally I think it would be a good idea to close the list to people that

are not current annual members. This is not so much because I wish to

discourage free discussion, off topic posts, etc. Personally I think that

access to the list is a benefit of membership and currently we are giving it

away for free. It would make sense to me that at least OBRA should get $15

from people. The counter opinion is that the purpose of the list is

primarily marketing and it makes more sense to market as wide as possible

and not just to the already established market, i.e. OBRA members. I can

see both points. I think that discussion on this list will be a good way to

assess opinion to see if there should be a policy change.



Mike Murray