Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19

markjgi-@yahoo.com

2004-09-16



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Seems like Mr. Nelson needs to put on a race and start a nothing for sale bicycle web site.



Mark Ginsberg



Mike Murray <mike.m-@obra.org> wrote:

Peter Murphy [mailto:murphy_-@hotmail.com] wrote:

"Every promoter who tells you about his race also wants the largest crowd

possible so they can make as much money as possible. It is all promotions."



A slight correction. Since most bike races don't actually make much money

the "can make as much money as possible" should actually be "loss as little

money as possible, maybe make a little money but at least cover their

costs".



Mike Murray



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com











Mark J. GinsbergAttorney At Law1001 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 1900Portland, OR 97204(503) 542-3000Fax (503) 295-3720 markjgi-@yahoo.comwww.bikesafetylaw.com













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<DIV>Seems like Mr. Nelson needs to put on a race and start a nothing for sale bicycle web site.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Mark Ginsberg<BR><BR><B><I>Mike Murray <mike.m-@obra.org></I></B> wrote:</DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<ADDRESS>Mark J. Ginsberg</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Attorney At Law</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>1001 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 1900</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Portland, OR 97204</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>(503) 542-3000</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Fax (503) 295-3720 </ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS><A href="mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com">markjgi-@yahoo.com</A></ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS><A href="http://www.bikesafetylaw.com">www.bikesafetylaw.com</A> </ADDRESS></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><p>

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Mike Murray

2004-09-16



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Tom's opinion is noted but it is just that, his opinion. It does not

reflect the intention that we had when we set up the lists and, apparently,

does not reflect the opinion of the majority of the posters to the list. I

certainly don't have any problem if the ob-@topica.com list becomes a "free

advertising tool". The list info states:

"This is the mailing list for the Oregon Bicycle Racing Association. Our

mission is to foster and grow the sport of bicycle racing in Oregon -road,

track, mountain bike and cyclocross. This list is to be used to post

for-sale bicycle related items and to spark discussions about the sport."



Note that this does not preclude commercial posts in any way. To date

commercial posts have not even been close to a problem.



Curt, feel free to continue to use the list as you have.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: TNels-@aol.com [mailto:TNels-@aol.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 17:59 PM

To: shane.-@comcast.net; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





I agree that River City is a great shop and supports Oregon bicycle racing

at a great level. However, if every bicycle shop posted demos, ads and

other marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list would become a

free advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended purpose it was

to serve. I know that other local bicycle retailers has used the discretion

and decided not to blatantly conduct business on the OBRA e-mail list. All

local shops should try to conduct their business activities in a respectful

manner in regards to the OBRA mailing list.



Tom

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





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<DIV><SPAN class=540073717-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Tom's

opinion is noted but it is just that, his opinion.  It does not reflect the

intention that we had when we set up the lists and, apparently, does not

reflect the opinion of the majority of the posters to the list.  I

certainly don't have any problem if the <A

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> list becomes a "free

advertising tool".  The list info states:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=540073717-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"<FONT

face=Verdana color=#000000 size=1>This is the mailing list for the Oregon

Bicycle Racing Association. Our mission is to foster and grow the sport of

bicycle racing in Oregon -road, track, mountain bike and cyclocross. This list

is to be used to post for-sale bicycle related items and to spark discussions

about the sport."</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=540073717-16092004><FONT face=Verdana

size=1></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=540073717-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Note

that this does not preclude commercial posts in any way.  To date

commercial posts have not even been close to a problem.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=540073717-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=540073717-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Curt,

feel free to continue to use the list as you have.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<P><FONT size=2>Mike Murray </FONT></P>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT

face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>

TNels-@aol.com [mailto:TNels-@aol.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday,

September 15, 2004 17:59 PM<BR><B>To:</B> shane.-@comcast.net;

cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA

Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT

face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"

PTSIZE="10">I agree that River City is a great shop and supports Oregon

bicycle racing at a great level.  However, if every bicycle shop posted

demos, ads and other marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list

would become a free advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended

purpose it was to serve.  I know that other local bicycle retailers has

used the discretion and decided not to blatantly conduct business on the OBRA

e-mail list.  All local shops should try to conduct their business

activities in a respectful manner in regards to the OBRA mailing

list.<BR><BR>Tom</FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>



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Mike Murray

2004-09-16



Peter Murphy [mailto:murphy_-@hotmail.com] wrote:

"Every promoter who tells you about his race also wants the largest crowd

possible so they can make as much money as possible. It is all promotions."



A slight correction. Since most bike races don't actually make much money

the "can make as much money as possible" should actually be "loss as little

money as possible, maybe make a little money but at least cover their

costs".



Mike Murray



Adams, Mike

2004-09-16



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Pure and simple. This type of posting promotes cycling. End of discussion.

Mike Adams



-----Original Message-----

From: Doug Evans [mailto:Dou-@sprbrk.com]

Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 9:22 AM

To: TNels-@aol.com; shane.-@comcast.net; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





I've got to say that I've always been impressed with the reserve that the shops have shown. All of the shops know that the list is here but they use its advertising potential very sparingly. I've never seen a post from a shop, including this one, that struck me as offensive in the least. I think it says a lot about the integrity of the bicycle retailers in our area.



-----Original Message-----

From: TNels-@aol.com [mailto:TNels-@aol.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:59 PM

To: shane.-@comcast.net; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





I agree that River City is a great shop and supports Oregon bicycle racing at a great level. However, if every bicycle shop posted demos, ads and other marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list would become a free advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended purpose it was to serve. I know that other local bicycle retailers has used the discretion and decided not to blatantly conduct business on the OBRA e-mail list. All local shops should try to conduct their business activities in a respectful manner in regards to the OBRA mailing list.



Tom

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





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<DIV><SPAN class=610565716-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Pure

and simple. This type of posting promotes cycling. End of

discussion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=610565716-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Mike

Adams</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma

size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Doug Evans

[mailto:Dou-@sprbrk.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 16, 2004 9:22

AM<BR><B>To:</B> TNels-@aol.com; shane.-@comcast.net;

cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [OBRA

Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=517281616-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I've

got to say that I've always been impressed with the reserve that the shops

have shown.  All of the shops know that the list is here but they use its

advertising potential very sparingly.  I've never seen a post from a

shop, including this one, that struck me as offensive in the least. 

I think it says a lot about the integrity of the bicycle retailers in our

area.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma

    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TNels-@aol.com

    [mailto:TNels-@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004

    5:59 PM<BR><B>To:</B> shane.-@comcast.net; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com;

    ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale

    Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT

    lang=0 face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">I agree that River

    City is a great shop and supports Oregon bicycle racing at a great

    level.  However, if every bicycle shop posted demos, ads and other

    marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list would become a free

    advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended purpose it was to

    serve.  I know that other local bicycle retailers has used the

    discretion and decided not to blatantly conduct business on the OBRA e-mail

    list.  All local shops should try to conduct their business activities

    in a respectful manner in regards to the OBRA mailing

list.<BR><BR>Tom</FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Doug Evans

2004-09-16



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I've got to say that I've always been impressed with the reserve that the shops have shown. All of the shops know that the list is here but they use its advertising potential very sparingly. I've never seen a post from a shop, including this one, that struck me as offensive in the least. I think it says a lot about the integrity of the bicycle retailers in our area.



-----Original Message-----

From: TNels-@aol.com [mailto:TNels-@aol.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:59 PM

To: shane.-@comcast.net; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





I agree that River City is a great shop and supports Oregon bicycle racing at a great level. However, if every bicycle shop posted demos, ads and other marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list would become a free advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended purpose it was to serve. I know that other local bicycle retailers has used the discretion and decided not to blatantly conduct business on the OBRA e-mail list. All local shops should try to conduct their business activities in a respectful manner in regards to the OBRA mailing list.



Tom

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





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<DIV><SPAN class=517281616-16092004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I've

got to say that I've always been impressed with the reserve that the shops have

shown.  All of the shops know that the list is here but they use its

advertising potential very sparingly.  I've never seen a post from a

shop, including this one, that struck me as offensive in the least.  I

think it says a lot about the integrity of the bicycle retailers in our

area.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma

size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TNels-@aol.com

[mailto:TNels-@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:59

PM<BR><B>To:</B> shane.-@comcast.net; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com;

ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale

Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT

lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">I agree that River

City is a great shop and supports Oregon bicycle racing at a great

level.  However, if every bicycle shop posted demos, ads and other

marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list would become a free

advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended purpose it was to

serve.  I know that other local bicycle retailers has used the discretion

and decided not to blatantly conduct business on the OBRA e-mail list. 

All local shops should try to conduct their business activities in a

respectful manner in regards to the OBRA mailing list.<BR><BR>Tom</FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>



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Terry Keele

2004-09-16







TNels-@aol.com wrote:



"However, if every bicycle shop posted demos, ads and other

marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list would become a

free advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended purpose it

was to serve."





Mike Murray (the owner of the list) wrote:



"Tom is mistaken. This is an item that has been discussed several time

before but probably needs reiterating. The ob-@topica.com list is open

to posting on any subject. Obviously the people on the list are

primarily OBRA members and people interested in bike racing so subjects

far a field from this are shooting in the wrong direction but they are

not limited by the constraints of the list serve. Use by a retail

business, particularly one that employs many OBRA members and has been

VERY supportive of bike racing,is not only appropriate but is actually

one of the reasons for the list. It

in no way "disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle

retailers". In fact, other retailers are welcome to post similar items

and have."



The owner of the list says that these types of promotions are among the

intended purposes the list was created to serve. What more do you need?



Separately, last night at the cross clinic, there was a gaggle of new

Kona cross bikes for people to demo. What I saw were several people

show up on mtbs and get a chance to try a cross bike. Is Kona there to

promote the eventual sale of their cross bikes? Yes. Were the

participants happy to get the opportunity to try a new cross bike? Yes.

It's my understanding that Kona will be at the remainder of the clinics

in a blatant intent to introduce their products to people who are in the

market for a new cross bike. I, for one, will be bringing a friend next

week that only owns a skinny tire road-bike who has been thinking about

getting a cross bike. I wish Kona would have posted something on the

list so I would have known earlier.



Thank you Kona, thank you River City, thank you Bike Central and thank

you to everyone who supports OBRA.     



David Hart

2004-09-16



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I welcome the ad's/promotions as I may just be interested because it has something to do with cycling (which is what this discussion group is about).



Look at your mags. 3/4 ads which are the most fun to look at..."oh, so slick and shinny".



And sorry for keeping the thread going.



David Hart

North River Racing

Southwest Washington's Cycling team!



----- Original Message -----

From: Peter Murphy<mailto:murphy_-@hotmail.com>

To: ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:48 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





Get over yourself. Every promoter who tells you about his race also wants

the largest crowd possible so they can make as much money as possible. It is

all promotions.



So Tom, which bike shop do you work for that is expressing it "outrage" for

using the biking forum to promote a cycing related activity in the Portland

area?



Veloshop (no offense Molly) and others constantly hawk their wares on this

site. Your outrage smells a little fishy that u single out RC.



Pete Murphy







>From: TNels-@aol.com<mailto:TNels-@aol.com>

>Reply-To: TNels-@aol.com<mailto:TNels-@aol.com>

>To: cur-@rivercitybicycles.com<mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com>, ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>

>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19

>Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:32:08 EDT

>

>I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of

>providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general

>cycling

>information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the

>OBRA

>mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing

>for

>private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale.

>However,

>for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to

>advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local

>bicycle

>retailers.

>

>Tom Nelson

>

>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>.

>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<mailto:cmur-@obra.org>

>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com>

>



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<mailto:cmur-@obra.org>

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com>









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<DIV>

<DIV>I welcome the ad's/promotions as I may just be interested because it has

something to do with cycling (which is what this discussion group is

about).</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Look at your mags.  3/4 ads which are the most fun to look at..."oh,

so slick and shinny".</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>And sorry for keeping the thread going.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>David Hart <BR>North River Racing <BR>Southwest Washington's Cycling team!

<BR></DIV></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A

title=mailto:murphy_-@hotmail.com

href="mailto:murphy_-@hotmail.com">Peter Murphy</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=mailto:ob-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:48

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a

Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>Get over yourself. Every promoter who tells you about his race

also wants <BR>the largest crowd possible so they can make as much money as

possible. It is <BR>all promotions.<BR><BR>So Tom, which bike shop do you work

for that is expressing it "outrage" for <BR>using the biking forum to promote

a cycing related activity in the Portland <BR>area?<BR><BR>Veloshop (no

offense Molly) and others constantly hawk their wares on this <BR>site. Your

outrage smells a little fishy that u single out RC.<BR><BR>Pete

Murphy<BR><BR><BR><BR>>From: <A title=mailto:TNels-@aol.com

href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</A><BR>>Reply-To: <A

title=mailto:TNels-@aol.com

href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</A><BR>>To: <A

title=mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com

href="mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com">cur-@rivercitybicycles.com</A>, <A

title=mailto:ob-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A><BR>>Subject: Re: [OBRA

Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19<BR>>Date: Wed, 15 Sep

2004 20:32:08 EDT<BR>><BR>>I was under the impression that the OBRA

e-mail list served the purpose of<BR>>providing a forum for posting

results, cycling questions and general

<BR>>cycling<BR>>information.  I find it disconcerting that a local

business would use the <BR>>OBRA<BR>>mailing list as a free, marketing

and advertising medium.  It is one thing <BR>>for<BR>>private

parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale. 

<BR>>However,<BR>>for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail

lists as a medium to<BR>>advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members

and all other local <BR>>bicycle<BR>>retailers.<BR>><BR>>Tom

Nelson<BR>><BR>>To respond to the whole group send to <A

title=mailto:ob-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A>.<BR>>To respond to the

list manager send to <A title=mailto:cmur-@obra.org

href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</A><BR>>To unsubscribe send

to <A title=mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com

href="mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com">obra-uns-@topica.com</A><BR>><BR><BR>To

respond to the whole group send to <A title=mailto:ob-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A>.<BR>To respond to the list

manager send to <A title=mailto:cmur-@obra.org

href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</A><BR>To unsubscribe send to

<A title=mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com



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TNels-@aol.com

2004-09-16





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I agree that River City is a great shop and supports Oregon bicycle racing at

a great level. However, if every bicycle shop posted demos, ads and other

marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list would become a free

advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended purpose it was to serve.

I know that other local bicycle retailers has used the discretion and decided

not to blatantly conduct business on the OBRA e-mail list. All local shops

should try to conduct their business activities in a respectful manner in

regards to the OBRA mailing list.



Tom



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I agree that River City is a great shop and supports Oregon bicycle racing at a great level.  However, if every bicycle shop posted demos, ads and other marketing tools to create business the OBRA e-mail list would become a free advertising tool and be greatly off base of the intended purpose it was to serve.  I know that other local bicycle retailers has used the discretion and decided not to blatantly conduct business on the OBRA e-mail list.  All local shops should try to conduct their business activities in a respectful manner in regards to the OBRA mailing list.<BR>

<BR>

Tom</FONT></HTML>



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Peter Murphy

2004-09-15



Get over yourself. Every promoter who tells you about his race also wants

the largest crowd possible so they can make as much money as possible. It is

all promotions.



So Tom, which bike shop do you work for that is expressing it "outrage" for

using the biking forum to promote a cycing related activity in the Portland

area?



Veloshop (no offense Molly) and others constantly hawk their wares on this

site. Your outrage smells a little fishy that u single out RC.



Pete Murphy







 From: TNels-@aol.com

Reply-To: TNels-@aol.com

To: cur-@rivercitybicycles.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:32:08 EDT



I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of

providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general

cycling

information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the

OBRA

mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing

for

private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale.

However,

for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to

advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local

bicycle

retailers.



Tom Nelson



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Mike Murray

2004-09-15



TNels-@aol.com [mailto:TNels-@aol.com] wrote:

"I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of

providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling

information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the

OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one

thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale.

However, for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a

medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other

local bicycle retailers."



Tom is mistaken. This is an item that has been discussed several time

before but probably needs reiterating. The ob-@topica.com list is open to

posting on any subject. Obviously the people on the list are primarily OBRA

members and people interested in bike racing so subjects far a field from

this are shooting in the wrong direction but they are not limited by the

constraints of the list serve. Use by a retail business, particularly one

that employs many OBRA members and has been VERY supportive of bike racing,

is not only appropriate but is actually one of the reasons for the list. It

in no way "disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle

retailers". In fact, other retailers are welcome to post similar items and

have.



The obra-@topica.com is ONLY for race results and announcements. For

sale posts by private individuals or businesses are not allowed. Those who

wish to avoid posts for sale posts, discussions, etc. should be on that list

and not on the ob-@topica.com list. In case there is some confusion as to

how to subscribe or unsubscribe to the lists, there are instructions at the

bottom of each posting.



Mike Murray



Tim Schauer

2004-09-15



DITTO!



I whole heartedly support any of the local businesses that support our OBRA or it's teams to use this e-mail list to promote their business. Why not? Through their support they are promoting our racing, right? And to criticize River City for this is way off base to me. These guys do it all! They have financially supported Cyclocross, PIR, local Crits and Road races, and sponsor something like 6 or more local teams? Plus they are a huge local advocate for bike commuting!



I say go ahead!



-Tim Schauer, Columbia River Velo, "A River City Sponsored Team"



________________________________



From: ty lambert [mailto:gobe-@comcast.net]

Sent: Wed 9/15/2004 7:37 PM

To: br-@politesociety.com; TNels-@aol.com; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





Do you find it disconcerting when River City sponsors a major portion of our teams and events?



Give me a break those guys are great!



Ty Lambert



----- Original Message -----

From: Dan H <mailto:br-@politesociety.com>

To: TNels-@aol.com ; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com ; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19



"I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium"



Doesn't bother me any... Free enterprise is one of things that makes this country great!   Go,go,go, use your adrenalin!



----- Original Message -----

From: TNels-@aol.com

To: cur-@rivercitybicycles.com ; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:32 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19



I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale. However, for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers.



Tom Nelson

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Ty Lambert

2004-09-15



This is a multi-part message in MIME format.



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Do you find it disconcerting when River City sponsors a major portion of our teams and events?



Give me a break those guys are great!



Ty Lambert

----- Original Message -----

From: Dan H

To: TNels-@aol.com ; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com ; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





"I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium"



Doesn't bother me any... Free enterprise is one of things that makes this country great!   Go,go,go, use your adrenalin!

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: TNels-@aol.com

    To: cur-@rivercitybicycles.com ; ob-@topica.com

    Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:32 PM

    Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





    I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale. However, for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers.



    Tom Nelson

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.comTo respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C49B5B.60AE9580

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<HTML><HEAD>

<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR>

<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=2>Do you find it disconcerting when River

City sponsors a major portion of our teams and events?</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=2>Give me a break those guys are great!</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=2>Ty Lambert</FONT></DIV></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title-@politesociety.com href="mailto:br-@politesociety.com">Dan H</A>

</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=TN-@aol.com

href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</A> ; <A

title=-@rivercitybicycles.com

href="mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com">cur-@rivercitybicycles.com</A> ; <A

title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004 6:53

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a

Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"I find it disconcerting that a local business

would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising

medium"</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Doesn't bother me any... Free enterprise is one

of things that makes this country great!   Go,go,go, use your

adrenalin!</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

    <DIV

    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

    <A title=TN-@aol.com

    href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A

    title=-@rivercitybicycles.com

    href="mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com">cur-@rivercitybicycles.com</A> ;

    <A title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A>

    </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004

    5:32 PM</DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a

    Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19</DIV>

    <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2

    PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">I was under the impression that the OBRA

    e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results,

    cycling questions and general cycling information.  I find it

    disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a

    free, marketing and advertising medium.  It is one thing for private

    parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale.  However,

    for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to

    advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local

    bicycle retailers.  <BR><BR>Tom Nelson</FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>



------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C49B5B.60AE9580--



Josh Wiggins

2004-09-15



<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

<html>

<head>

<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">

<title></title>

</head>

<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">

Tom <br>

<br>

The OBRA list is for posting what ever you feel and its not moderated.<br>

<br>

In the hope this thread doesn't go on for days again like so many

sometimes do.<br>

<br>

Lets just go with "The OBRA list gets all types of posts if you don't

like whats posted. Just deal with it or delete the email or dont

receive the "<br>

<br>

See plenty of choices <br>

<br>

Have a Great Day<br>

<br>

Enjoy the test ride anyone that goes. Go on Tom, go and see the guys at

River City :-)<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

Andrew Beehler wrote:<br>

<blockquote cite="mid1462052274-1463-@boing.topica.com"

type="cite">

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">

<meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name="GENERATOR">

<style></style>

<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I personally am glad that RIver CIty

announced the DEMO, Who wants to go ride a really nice bike?</font></div>

<div> </div>

<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Andrew</font></div>

<blockquote

style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"

dir="ltr">

    <div

style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----

Original Message ----- </div>

    <div

style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>

    <a title="br-@politesociety.com" href="mailto:br-@politesociety.com">Dan

H</a> </div>

    <div

style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>

    <a title="TNels-@aol.com" href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</a>

; <a title="cur-@rivercitybicycles.com"

href="mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com">cur-@rivercitybicycles.com</a>

; <a title="ob-@topica.com" href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</a>

    </div>

    <div

style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>

Wednesday, September 15, 2004 6:53 PM</div>

    <div

style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>

Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19</div>

    <div><br>

    </div>

    <div><font face="Arial" size="2">"I find it disconcerting that a

local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and

advertising medium"</font></div>

    <div> </div>

    <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Doesn't bother me any... Free

enterprise is one of things that makes this country great!   Go,go,go,

use your adrenalin!</font></div>

    <blockquote

style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"

dir="ltr">

      <div

style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----

Original Message ----- </div>

      <div

style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>

      <a title="TNels-@aol.com" href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</a>

      </div>

      <div

style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>

      <a title="cur-@rivercitybicycles.com"

href="mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com">cur-@rivercitybicycles.com</a>

; <a title="ob-@topica.com" href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</a>

      </div>

      <div

style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>

Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:32 PM</div>

      <div

style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>

Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19</div>

      <div><br>

      </div>

      <font face="arial,helvetica"><font ptsize="10" family="SANSSERIF"

face="Arial" lang="0" size="2">I was under the impression that the

OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting

results, cycling questions and general cycling information.  I find it

disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as

a free, marketing and advertising medium.  It is one thing for private

parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale.  However,

for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a

medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all

other local bicycle retailers.  <br>

      <br>

Tom Nelson</font>

      <pre>To respond to the whole group send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</a>.

To respond to the list manager send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</a>

To unsubscribe send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com">obra-uns-@topica.com</a></pre>

      </font></blockquote>

    <pre>To respond to the whole group send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</a>.

To respond to the list manager send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</a>

To unsubscribe send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com">obra-uns-@topica.com</a></pre>

</blockquote>

<pre>To respond to the whole group send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</a>.

To respond to the list manager send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</a>

To unsubscribe send to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com">obra-uns-@topica.com</a></pre>



</blockquote>

<br>

</body>

</html>



Andrew Beehler

2004-09-15



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I personally am glad that RIver CIty announced the DEMO, Who wants to go ride a really nice bike?



Andrew

----- Original Message -----

From: Dan H

To: TNels-@aol.com ; cur-@rivercitybicycles.com ; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





"I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium"



Doesn't bother me any... Free enterprise is one of things that makes this country great!   Go,go,go, use your adrenalin!

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: TNels-@aol.com

    To: cur-@rivercitybicycles.com ; ob-@topica.com

    Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:32 PM

    Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





    I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale. However, for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers.



    Tom Nelson

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.comTo respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

------=_NextPart_000_02B4_01C49B5E.50388910

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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=GENERATOR>

<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I personally am glad that RIver CIty announced the

DEMO, Who wants to go ride a really nice bike?</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Andrew</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title-@politesociety.com href="mailto:br-@politesociety.com">Dan H</A>

</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=TN-@aol.com

href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</A> ; <A

title=-@rivercitybicycles.com

href="mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com">cur-@rivercitybicycles.com</A> ; <A

title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004 6:53

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a

Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"I find it disconcerting that a local business

would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising

medium"</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Doesn't bother me any... Free enterprise is one

of things that makes this country great!   Go,go,go, use your

adrenalin!</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

    <DIV

    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

    <A title=TN-@aol.com

    href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A

    title=-@rivercitybicycles.com

    href="mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com">cur-@rivercitybicycles.com</A> ;

    <A title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A>

    </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004

    5:32 PM</DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a

    Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19</DIV>

    <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2

    PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">I was under the impression that the OBRA

    e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results,

    cycling questions and general cycling information.  I find it

    disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a

    free, marketing and advertising medium.  It is one thing for private

    parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale.  However,

    for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to

    advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local

    bicycle retailers.  <BR><BR>Tom Nelson</FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>



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Dan H

2004-09-15



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"I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium"



Doesn't bother me any... Free enterprise is one of things that makes this country great!   Go,go,go, use your adrenalin!

----- Original Message -----

From: TNels-@aol.com

To: cur-@rivercitybicycles.com ; ob-@topica.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:32 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale. However, for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers.



Tom Nelson

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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<HTML><HEAD>

<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=GENERATOR>

<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"I find it disconcerting that a local business

would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising

medium"</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Doesn't bother me any... Free enterprise is one of

things that makes this country great!   Go,go,go, use your

adrenalin!</FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=TN-@aol.com

href="mailto:TNels-@aol.com">TNels-@aol.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=-@rivercitybicycles.com

href="mailto:cur-@rivercitybicycles.com">cur-@rivercitybicycles.com</A> ; <A

title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:32

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a

Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2

FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail

list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling

questions and general cycling information.  I find it disconcerting that

a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and

advertising medium.  It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails

detailing personal items for sale.  However, for a retail business to

blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free,

disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers. 

<BR><BR>Tom Nelson</FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>



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shane.-@comcast.net

2004-09-15





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Tom I hear your point but I personally would make expections for companies that support Oregon racing. River City does a ton for races and I think OBRA in general that I would gladly accept their advertisement every once in a while. I think it would be hard to image what Oregon racing would be like without their support (Teams, Races and so on).



Shane



-------------- Original message --------------

I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale. However, for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers.



Tom Nelson

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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<html><body>

<P>Tom I hear your point but I personally would make expections for companies that support Oregon racing.  River City does a ton for races and I think OBRA in general that I would gladly accept their advertisement every once in a while.  I think it would be hard to image what Oregon racing would be like without their support (Teams, Races and so on).</P>

<P> </P>

<P>Shane<BR></P>

<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale. However, for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers. <BR><BR>Tom Nelson</FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></body></html>



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Schreck, George

2004-09-15



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So what. It is cycling related, and a lot of OBRA members may want to

ride a Cannondale and take advantage of the offer. They are not

actually selling anything on the site. They are just providing an

opportunity to ride a new bicycle that has not been available until now.

I would call that general cycling information



Also, River City is a tremendous supporter of Oregon racing, so I think

we can allow them some license to post things like this, although I do

not think this type of posting represents a problem, as this was not an

advertisement. I see no disrespect.



        George Schreck

         Phone: (503) 813-7211

          Fax: (503) 813-7190





________________________________



From: TNels-@aol.com [mailto:TNels-@aol.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:32 PM

To: cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept. 19





I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose

of providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general

cycling information. I find it disconcerting that a local business

would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising

medium. It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing

personal items for sale. However, for a retail business to blatantly

use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free, disrespects

both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers.



Tom Nelson

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================



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<BODY>

<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=758563800-16092004><FONT face=Arial

color=#0000ff size=2>So what.  It is cycling related, and a lot of OBRA

members may want to ride a Cannondale and take advantage of the offer. 

They are not actually selling anything on the site.  They are just

providing an opportunity to ride a new bicycle that has not been available until

now.  I would call that general cycling information</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=758563800-16092004><FONT face=Arial

color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=758563800-16092004><FONT face=Arial

color=#0000ff size=2>Also, River City is a tremendous supporter of Oregon

racing, so I think we can allow them some license to post things like this,

although I do not think this type of posting represents a problem, as this was

not an advertisement.  I see no disrespect.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=758563800-16092004><FONT face=Arial

color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=758563800-16092004>

<DIV><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" color=#800000

size=5><STRONG><EM>        George

Schreck</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" color=#800000

size=4>         Phone: (503)

813-7211</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>

<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="Bookman Old Style" color=#800000

size=4>          Fax: (503)

813-7190</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>

<HR tabIndex=-1>

<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> TNels-@aol.com

[mailto:TNels-@aol.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 15, 2004 5:32

PM<BR><B>To:</B> cur-@rivercitybicycles.com; ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>

Re: [OBRA Chat] Test Ride a Cannondale Six13, Sunday, Sept.

19<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>

<DIV></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2

FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail

list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling

questions and general cycling information.  I find it disconcerting that a

local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and

advertising medium.  It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails

detailing personal items for sale.  However, for a retail business to

blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free,

disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers. 

<BR><BR>Tom Nelson</FONT><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></FONT></BODY></HTML>



<P>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>

<br>

This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.<br>

<br>

It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.<br>

<br>

If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.<br>

<br>

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TNels-@aol.com

2004-09-15





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I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of

providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling

information. I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA

mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium. It is one thing for

private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale. However,

for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to

advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle

retailers.



Tom Nelson



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I was under the impression that the OBRA e-mail list served the purpose of providing a forum for posting results, cycling questions and general cycling information.  I find it disconcerting that a local business would use the OBRA mailing list as a free, marketing and advertising medium.  It is one thing for private parties to post e-mails detailing personal items for sale.  However, for a retail business to blatantly use the OBRA e-mail lists as a medium to advertise for free, disrespects both OBRA members and all other local bicycle retailers.  <BR>

<BR>

Tom Nelson</FONT></HTML>



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Curt Dewees

2004-09-15



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CANNONDALE SIX13 DEMO DAY: SUNDAY, SEPT. 19



Come take a ride on the new Cannondale Six13 road bike. It's a great blend of aluminum & carbon fiber--so light they had to add weight to make it UCI legal. We'll have a full size run available for you to test-ride on Sunday, Sept. 19, and we're leading a group demo ride that day from River City Bicycles. The demo truck will be parked here at River City Bicycles all day, so if you miss the group ride in the morning, you can still take out a Six13 for your own demo ride later in the day.



Complimentary breakfast (muffins & coffee) is at 8 a.m. The ride leaves at 8:30 a.m. Meet at the parking lot here at River City Bicycles. Bring your bike helmet, shoes, pedals, water bottles, and your saddle-to-pedal measurement.



To learn more about the Cannondale Six13, go to http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/05/cusa/cats/RD.html



For more information about the demo ride, or to reserve your Six13, contact Bike Manager Dylan Herbert, 503-233-5973, cyclem-@yahoo.com





River City Bicycles

706 SE MLK Blvd.

Portland, OR 97214

503-233-5973





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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>CANNONDALE

SIX13 DEMO DAY: SUNDAY, SEPT. 19<BR><BR>Come take a ride on the new Cannondale

Six13 road bike. It's a great blend of aluminum & carbon fiber--so light

they had to add weight to make it UCI legal. We'll have a full size run

available for you to test-ride on Sunday, Sept. 19, and we're leading a group

demo ride that day from River City Bicycles. The demo truck will be parked here

at River City Bicycles all day, so if you miss the group ride in the morning,

you can still take out a Six13 for your own demo ride later in the

day.<BR><BR>Complimentary breakfast (muffins & coffee) is at 8 a.m. The ride

leaves at 8:30 a.m. Meet at the parking lot here at River City Bicycles. Bring

your bike helmet, shoes, pedals, water bottles, and your saddle-to-pedal

measurement.<BR><BR>To learn more about the Cannondale Six13, go to </FONT><A

href="http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/05/cusa/cats/RD.html"><FONT

face="Times New Roman"

size=3>http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/05/cusa/cats/RD.html</FONT></A><BR><BR><FONT

face="Times New Roman" size=3>For more information about the demo ride, or to

reserve your Six13, contact Bike Manager Dylan Herbert, 503-233-5973, </FONT><A

href="mailto:cyclem-@yahoo.com"><FONT face="Times New Roman"

size=3>cyclem-@yahoo.com</FONT></A></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"

size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"

size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>River City

Bicycles</FONT></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>706 SE MLK

Blvd.</FONT></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Portland, OR

97214</FONT></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"

size=3>503-233-5973</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>



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