david baker

When I am on the road I try to be as courteous as posible to other traffic,

whether I am in a car or on a bike. If I am going the speed limit on my bike

I do not ride in the center of the road, in fact the only time I ride in the

center of the road is just before entering a traffic circle. Just the same

way that if I am driving a car the speed limit I know other people may want

to go faster. I allways stay as far to the right as logical and let whomever

might be wanting to pass me make that descision for themselves. Whether or

not I get upset with their pass depends on the width of the road, size of

their vehicle(or bike), their speed, my speed, road conditions, etc. I leave

it is up to the passer to determine since I do not allways know all of those

factors.

I have seen a lot of rage between cyclists and car drivers and think both

sides need to try to understand where the other side is coming from. He may

have gotten mad just for what he saw as an arrogant jesture of blocking the

road, and may not have passed, or gotten mad, if you were on the right side.

There is no excuse for his reaction of braking and or moving into your way.

I have gotten upset with drivers before because some of them do not seem to

understand that if is not safe to pass you just do not pass, period. But to

assume they are all that way will continue to escalate this bad

relationship.

I do not mean to minimalize the severity of his anger issues, just trying

to promote ways for us all to get along.

----- Original Message -----

From: <Cp53-@aol.com>

To: <TSch-@mackaysposito.com>; <cmur-@obra.org>; "obra"

<ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:55 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?





 Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an

ANGRY driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the

hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel

so close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the

lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up that

rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into the

on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a family in

it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he

came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing me

to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright. A

yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably between

9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took off

proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no

contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I needed

to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know

why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws

and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's easy

to find out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Cp53-@aol.com

Somebody had a suggestion yesterday to contact MAtt Zaffino, Dave Salesky about doing a story about cyclists (possibly) on the news.

That would a great way to raise awareness. Maybe have somebody from State Police there as a legal representative so people didn't think it was slanted. And have somebody from BTA there as an advocate for us.

Is this realistic?

chris

Dave German

Has anyone thought to contact the media in a situation like this?



Chris, just an idea but what would happen if you, all the PDX news crews and

say those 4000 angry bikers showed up at this guy's house at family dinner

time??









 From: Cp53-@aol.com

Reply-To: Cp53-@aol.com

To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com, cmur-@obra.org, obra <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:55:21 -0400



Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an ANGRY

driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the

hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel so

close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the

lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up that

rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into the

on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a family in

it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he

came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing me

to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright. A

yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably between

9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took off

proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no

contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I needed

to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know why

they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws and

that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's easy to

find out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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As an attorney, I wish to add the following to this dialog:



1)      District Attorneys are elected officials (as opposed to police officers who are civil servants).

2)      Elected officials endeavor to keep their constituents happy. Civil servants are not elected and do not always endeavor to keep the public happy.

3)      Reckless driving is a crime in Oregon punishable by up to one year in jail..

4)      Rather than complaining to the police, I urge all victims of road rage to note license plate numbers and to take their complaints to the district attorneys in the county in which the incident occurs. Begin with a CONCISE letter addressed to the District Attorney that lays out the bare facts and requests a personal appointment with a deputy district attorney for the purpose of filing a complaint and assisting the DA's office in prosecuting the case. Do not sermonize or go beyond the ultimate facts in your letter or you may be written off as a kook and your letter may fall on deaf ears.

6)      I believe that it would be helpful to put out a simple on-line petition to OBRA members to gather the support of as many fellow road rage victims as possible to attract the DA's attention to this neglected issue.

7)      The relevant criminal law from Oregon's Revised Statutes is pasted below:





CARELESS AND RECKLESS DRIVING



    ORS 811.135 Careless driving; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of careless driving if the person drives any vehicle upon a highway or other premises described in this section in a manner that endangers or would be likely to endanger any person or property.



      (2) The offense described in this section, careless driving, applies on any premises open to the public and is a Class B traffic violation unless commission of the offense contributes to an accident. If commission of the offense contributes to an accident, the offense is a Class A traffic violation. [1983 c.338 ?570; 1995 c.383 ?20]



     ORS 811.140 Reckless driving; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of reckless driving if the person recklessly drives a vehicle upon a highway or other premises described in this section in a manner that endangers the safety of persons or property.



      (2) The use of the term "recklessly" in this section is as defined in ORS 161.085.



      (3) The offense described in this section, reckless driving, is a Class A misdemeanor and is applicable upon any premises open to the public. [1983 c.338 ?571]



CRIMINAL LIABILITY



      ORS 161.085 Definitions with respect to culpability. As used in chapter 743, Oregon Laws 1971, and ORS 166.635, unless the context requires otherwise:

   

      (9) "Recklessly," when used with respect to a result or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense, means that a person is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the result will occur or that the circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.





       I am a commercial litigator and not a criminal attorney, but feel free to contact me off-line if you desire to discuss any of this further.



Regards,



Joe Field

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Joseph A. Field

Field & Associates

Oregon National Building

610 SW Alder Street, Ste. 910

Portland, OR 97205

Tel. (503) 228 - 9115

Fax (503) 225- 0276

E mail: jo-@fieldlawfirm.com < mailto:jo-@fieldlawfirm.com>



The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the party addressed and the intended recipient of this message, any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think you have received this e-mail message in error, please e-mail the sender at jo-@fieldlawfirm.com. Thank you.





-----Original Message-----

From: Schreck, George [ mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:02 AM

To: Cp53-@aol.com; TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?





First, if you are going the speed limit, you do have the right to use

the lane. Second, the police to have an obligation to follow up, as the

driver was diving recklessly and intentionally endangered you. The

police do not have a right to wait until someone is injured. There are

statutes on the books that make harassment of cyclists a crime. You

need to go to the station and swear out a complaint.



-----Original Message-----

From: Cp53-@aol.com [ mailto:Cp53-@aol.com]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:55 AM

To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org; obra

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?



Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an

ANGRY driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the

hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel

so close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the

lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up

that rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into

the on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a

family in it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line

there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he

came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing

me to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright.

A yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably

between 9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took

off proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no

contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I

needed to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know

why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws

and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's

easy to find out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









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<TITLE></TITLE>



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<BODY>

<P><FONT size=2><FONT size=3>As an attorney, I wish to add the following to this

dialog:<BR><BR>1)      District Attorneys are elected

officials (as opposed to police officers who are civil

servants).<BR>2)      Elected officials endeavor to

keep their constituents happy.  Civil servants are not elected and do

not always endeavor to keep the public

happy.<BR>3)      Reckless driving is a crime in Oregon

punishable by up to one year in jail..<BR>4)     

Rather than complaining to the police, I urge all victims of road rage to note

license plate numbers and to take their complaints to the district

attorneys in the county in which the incident occurs.  Begin with

a CONCISE letter addressed to the District Attorney that lays out the

bare facts and requests a personal appointment with a deputy district attorney

for the purpose of filing a complaint and assisting  the DA's office in

prosecuting the case.  Do not sermonize or go beyond the ultimate facts in

your letter or you may be written off as a kook and your letter may fall on

deaf ears.<BR>6)      I believe that it would be

helpful to put out a simple on-line petition to OBRA members to gather the

support of as many fellow road rage victims as possible to attract the DA's

attention to this neglected

issue.<BR></FONT></FONT>7)      The relevant

criminal law from Oregon's Revised Statutes is pasted

below:<BR><FONT><FONT><BR><BR>CARELESS AND </FONT><U><STRONG>RECKLESS

DRIVING</STRONG><BR></U><BR>    ORS  811.135 Careless

driving; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of careless driving if the

person drives any vehicle upon a highway or other premises described in this

section in a manner that endangers or would be likely to endanger any person or

property.<BR><BR>      (2) The offense described in

this section, careless driving, applies on any premises open to the public and

is a Class B traffic violation unless commission of the offense contributes to

an accident. If commission of the offense contributes to an accident, the

offense is a Class A traffic violation. [1983 c.338 ?570; 1995 c.383

?20]<BR><BR>     <U><STRONG>ORS  811.140 Reckless

driving; penalty</STRONG></U>. (1) A person commits the offense of reckless

driving if the person <STRONG>recklessly drives a vehicle upon a highway or

other premises described in this section in a manner that endangers the safety

of persons or property.<BR></STRONG><BR>      (2) The

use of the term "recklessly" in this section is as defined in ORS

161.085.<BR><BR>      (3) The offense described in this

section, reckless driving, is a Class A misdemeanor and is applicable upon any

premises open to the public. [1983 c.338 ?571]<BR><BR><STRONG>CRIMINAL

LIABILITY</STRONG><BR><BR>      ORS 161.085 Definitions

with respect to culpability. As used in chapter 743, Oregon Laws 1971, and ORS

166.635, unless the context requires

otherwise:<BR>   <BR>      (9)

<U><STRONG>"Recklessly,"</STRONG></U> when used with respect to a result or to a

circumstance described by a statute defining an offense, means that a person is

aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that

the result will occur or that the circumstance exists. The risk must be of such

nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a gross deviation from the

standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the

situation.</FONT></P>

<DIV><FONT></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT>       I am a commercial litigator

and not a criminal attorney, but feel free to contact me off-line if you desire

to discuss any of this further.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT>Regards,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=3>Joe

Field<BR></FONT>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>Joseph A.

Field<BR>Field & Associates<BR>Oregon National Building<BR>610 SW Alder

Street, Ste. 910<BR>Portland, OR 97205<BR>Tel. (503) 228 - 9115<BR>Fax (503)

225- 0276<BR>E mail: jo-@fieldlawfirm.com <<A

href="mailto:jo-@fieldlawfirm.com">mailto:jo-@fieldlawfirm.com</A>><BR><BR>The

information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential,

and protected from disclosure.  If you are not the party addressed and the

intended recipient of this message, any use, dissemination, distribution, or

copying is strictly prohibited.  If you think you have received this e-mail

message in error, please e-mail the sender at jo-@fieldlawfirm.com.  Thank

you.<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Schreck, George [<A

href="mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com">mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com</A>]<BR>Sent:

Monday, September 27, 2004 10:02 AM<BR>To: Cp53-@aol.com;

TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org; obra<BR>Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat]

Road rage. What to do...?<BR><BR><BR>First, if you are going the speed limit,

you do have the right to use<BR>the lane.  Second, the police to have an

obligation to follow up, as the<BR>driver was diving recklessly and

intentionally endangered you.  The<BR>police do not have a right to wait

until someone is injured. There are<BR>statutes on the books that make

harassment of cyclists a crime.  You<BR>need to go to the station and swear

out a complaint.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Cp53-@aol.com [<A

href="mailto:Cp53-@aol.com">mailto:Cp53-@aol.com</A>]<BR>Sent: Monday,

September 27, 2004 9:55 AM<BR>To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org;

obra<BR>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?<BR><BR>Hey fellow two

wheelers,<BR>I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.<BR>I was

riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an<BR>ANGRY

driver.<BR>It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline.  We were coming

down the<BR>hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our

wheel<BR>so close and trying to pass on every bend.  We were in the middle

of the<BR>lane--as we were doing the speed limit.  Also because I've ridden

up<BR>that rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us

into<BR>the on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with

a<BR>family in it or whatever.  That's why there is a double yellow

line<BR>there.<BR>Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a

bit and he<BR>came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off,

forcing<BR>me to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail.  I managed to stay

upright.<BR>A yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with

him-probably<BR>between 9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then

he took<BR>off proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible

beamer.<BR>I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened

(no<BR>contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do.  What

I<BR>needed to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.<BR>So, I

call the DMV and guess what?  You got it.  They say "I don't

know<BR>why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement

agency". <BR>I would like to send  message to this guy and remind him

there are laws<BR>and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on

it.  It's<BR>easy to find out who you are. <BR>WHat can I

do?<BR>Thanks for your help.  ENjoy the ride!<BR>Chris<BR><BR>To respond to

the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<BR>To respond to the list manager send

to cmur-@obra.org<BR>To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>This

email is confidential and may be legally privileged.<BR><BR>It is intended

solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly

approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.<BR><BR>If

you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any

action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If

you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the

sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all

copies.<BR><BR>==============================================================================<BR><BR>To

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manager send to cmur-@obra.org<BR>To unsubscribe send to



------_=_NextPart_001_01C4A4DA.2911C470--

Terry & Peggy Crawford

There is an Oregon Revised Statute that allows bicyclists to "offensively

(not as in being ugly) take the lane" when the "bicycle rider deems it too

dangerous for another vehicle to safely pass". Note: it is in the eyes of

the bike rider when it is dangerous or not; not in the eyes of the people

being held up behind. Sounds like this Bozo is in violation of at least

that law. We won't go into dumb.



TNC



----- Original Message -----

From: "Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com>

To: <Cp53-@aol.com>; <TSch-@mackaysposito.com>; <cmur-@obra.org>;

"obra" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:02 AM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?





 First, if you are going the speed limit, you do have the right to use

the lane. Second, the police to have an obligation to follow up, as the

driver was diving recklessly and intentionally endangered you. The

police do not have a right to wait until someone is injured. There are

statutes on the books that make harassment of cyclists a crime. You

need to go to the station and swear out a complaint.



-----Original Message-----

From: Cp53-@aol.com [mailto:Cp53-@aol.com]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:55 AM

To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org; obra

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?



Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an

ANGRY driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the

hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel

so close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the

lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up

that rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into

the on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a

family in it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line

there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he

came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing

me to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright.

A yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably

between 9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took

off proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no

contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I

needed to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know

why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws

and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's

easy to find out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone

else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee,

is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,

distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this

email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy

all copies.



==============================================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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markjgi-@yahoo.com

--0-400233246-1096304896=:6699

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii



Check the OBRA archive b/c we as a group have been down this raod many times before.



The police many times do take a "no contact= no crime" position. This is not the law. There does not need to be contact for their to be a crime.

You need to fill out a police report yourself.

You need to be able to identify the driver and the plate of the car. It sounds like you can do this. You also have two witnesses, which is good.



I am guessing you spoke to a washington county sheriff. Considering how many people ride in WashCo, I am always surprised at how uncycling friendly the sheriff's office is there. You can also talk to the city police, or go up the sheriff's food chain to a comander, or someone else b/c this was a crime and it needs to be followed up/.

I am happy to talk with you (or anyone in this type of situation).



Mark Ginsberg, Esq.

markjgi-@yahoo.com

(503) 542-3000



"Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com> wrote:

First, if you are going the speed limit, you do have the right to use

the lane. Second, the police to have an obligation to follow up, as the

driver was diving recklessly and intentionally endangered you. The

police do not have a right to wait until someone is injured. There are

statutes on the books that make harassment of cyclists a crime. You

need to go to the station and swear out a complaint.



-----Original Message-----

From: Cp53-@aol.com [mailto:Cp53-@aol.com]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:55 AM

To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org; obra

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?



Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an

ANGRY driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the

hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel

so close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the

lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up

that rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into

the on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a

family in it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line

there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he

came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing

me to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright.

A yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably

between 9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took

off proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no

contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I

needed to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know

why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws

and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's

easy to find out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



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Mark J. GinsbergAttorney At Law1001 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 1900Portland, OR 97204(503) 542-3000Fax (503) 295-3720 markjgi-@yahoo.comwww.bikesafetylaw.com













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<DIV>Check the OBRA archive b/c we as a group have been down this raod many times before.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>The police many times do take a "no contact= no crime" position. This is not the law. There does not need to be contact for their to be a crime.</DIV>

<DIV>You need to fill out a police report yourself.</DIV>

<DIV>You need to be able to identify the driver and the plate of the car. It sounds like you can do this. You also have two witnesses, which is good.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I am guessing you spoke to a washington county sheriff. Considering how many people ride in WashCo, I am always surprised at how uncycling friendly the sheriff's office is there. You can also talk to the city police, or go up the sheriff's food chain to a comander, or someone else b/c this was a crime and it needs to be followed up/.</DIV>

<DIV>I am happy to talk with you (or anyone in this type of situation).</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Mark Ginsberg, Esq.</DIV>

<DIV><A href="mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com">markjgi-@yahoo.com</A></DIV>

<DIV>(503) 542-3000<BR><BR><B><I>"Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">First, if you are going the speed limit, you do have the right to use<BR>the lane. Second, the police to have an obligation to follow up, as the<BR>driver was diving recklessly and intentionally endangered you. The<BR>police do not have a right to wait until someone is injured. There are<BR>statutes on the books that make harassment of cyclists a crime. You<BR>need to go to the station and swear out a complaint.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Cp53-@aol.com [mailto:Cp53-@aol.com] <BR>Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:55 AM<BR>To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org; obra<BR>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?<BR><BR>Hey fellow two wheelers,<BR>I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.<BR>I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an<BR>ANGRY driver. <BR>It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were

coming down the<BR>hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel<BR>so close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the<BR>lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up<BR>that rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into<BR>the on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a<BR>family in it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line<BR>there.<BR>Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he<BR>came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing<BR>me to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright.<BR>A yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably<BR>between 9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took<BR>off proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.<BR>I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no<BR>contact

damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I<BR>needed to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.<BR>So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know<BR>why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency". <BR>I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws<BR>and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's<BR>easy to find out who you are. <BR>WHat can I do?<BR>Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!<BR>Chris<BR><BR>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<BR>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<BR>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.<BR><BR>It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<ADDRESS>Mark J. Ginsberg</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Attorney At Law</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>1001 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 1900</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Portland, OR 97204</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>(503) 542-3000</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Fax (503) 295-3720 </ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS><A href="mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com">markjgi-@yahoo.com</A></ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS><A href="http://www.bikesafetylaw.com">www.bikesafetylaw.com</A> </ADDRESS></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><p>

<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>

<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/security/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/protection.html">Yahoo! Mail</a> - You care about security. So do we.

--0-400233246-1096304896=:6699--

.David.Auker.

Sounds like you have his license number. Get his address (I use a lawyer

friend to get the info from the license number). Send him a gently-scolding

note (written very legibly, on a postcard, so others can read it, too!). No

swearing, no anger. Just disappointment that he made an inherently

dangerous (but legal) situation worse by his anger. What you're writing

"between the lines" is "I know where you live..."



Then, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. You can drive cars and yell at

bikes, too. (Just kidding)



David



----- Original Message -----

From: <Cp53-@aol.com>

To: <TSch-@mackaysposito.com>; <cmur-@obra.org>; "obra"

<ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:55 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?





 Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an

ANGRY driver.

 It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the

hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel so

close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the

lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up that

rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into the

on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a family in

it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line there.

 Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he

came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing me

to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright. A

yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably between

9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took off proudly

waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

 I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no

contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I needed to

do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

 So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know

why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

 I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws

and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's easy to

find out who you are.

 WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

jo-@aracnet.com

Descirbe the beemer/driver in greater detail, if you could. Mike Mauch and I were riding out along Evergreen near Shute Rd last sptring when we had a similar incident with a ass, er I mean motorist. The Wash. County Sheriff basically said the same thing back then. If this is the same motorist, then a pattern is developing and it is time for some serious action. Mark, what say you in this regard?



Joe



Cp53-@aol.com wrote :



 Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an

ANGRY driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the hill

(doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel so close

and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the lane--as we

were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up that rode and enough

others to know that he could very well pass us into the on-coming lane and hit

some other riders head-on or a car with a family in it or whatever. That's why

there is a double yellow line there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he came

right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing me to lock

up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright. A yelling match

ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably between 9-13 yrs old-I bet

they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took off proudly waving his middle

finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no contact

damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I needed to do was

call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know

why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws and

that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's easy to find

out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Schreck, George

First, if you are going the speed limit, you do have the right to use

the lane. Second, the police to have an obligation to follow up, as the

driver was diving recklessly and intentionally endangered you. The

police do not have a right to wait until someone is injured. There are

statutes on the books that make harassment of cyclists a crime. You

need to go to the station and swear out a complaint.



-----Original Message-----

From: Cp53-@aol.com [mailto:Cp53-@aol.com]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:55 AM

To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org; obra

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...?



Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an

ANGRY driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the

hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel

so close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the

lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up

that rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into

the on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a

family in it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line

there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he

came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing

me to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright.

A yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably

between 9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took

off proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no

contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I

needed to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know

why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws

and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's

easy to find out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This email is confidential and may be legally privileged.



It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is unauthorized.



If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this email in error, please contact the sender, delete this e-mail and destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

Cp53-@aol.com

Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an ANGRY driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel so close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up that rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into the on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a family in it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing me to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright. A yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably between 9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took off proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I needed to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's easy to find out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris