Cp53-@aol.com

Damn right!

I want to make this guy squirm by realizing what kind of can of worms can be opened by something like this.

I don't think turning the other cheek is good at all. Like I said in a private email, it just sends the message to people like that that what they are doing is acceptable and tolerable. And it is clearly not acceptable or tolerable.



Does anybody know how to find who somebody's insurance carrier is? I want to really put it into terms somebody like this will understand and contact his insurance company and tell them what kind of "liability" they have on their books.

Let me know if anybody has any info...

Thank you. Our sport is too great to be spoiled by people like that..

cp

Mark Wexler

If you were going the speed limit and he was still angry...request from

the county to put up speed bumps...that should really get him in an

uproar! Don't forget to remind him that you most certainly helped him

to avoid the speeding ticket that he would have received had you not

been there to hold him to a more respectful and safer speed on that

dangerous strecth of road.



Peter Murphy wrote:

 

So let me understand this Ted....



You're solution is to acquiesce? Stick your head in the ground and count



your lucky stars that nothing happened and hope this problem goes away

on

its own?



You do that and the problem will never go away. Start prosecuting these

"bullies" and the problem will start to get better.



There are many ways to deal with a bully, but if you want the bully to

stop,

you need to stand up against them, otherwise they will continue to do

what

they do. And by standing up, I do not necessarily mean using violence.

Postcards are good. Keep riding in the area, in fact, bring more people

to

ride together in the area of concern. Get the County to put up more

share

the road signs. Educate the non-riding public of the legal issues. And

report this idiot.



What time did this happen? What day? I'll gladly ride in that area.



Don't bring a knife to a gun fight...bring your mind. It seemed to work

for

Ghandi and MLK,Jr. This is a freedom issue. The freedom to ride where

you

are legally allowed. And no one has the right to take away that freedom.



Pete





 From: tgr-@parametrix.com

Reply-To: tgr-@parametrix.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] [SPAM] - Road rage. What to do...? - Email

found

in subject

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:06:23 +0000



You are fortunate to have remained upright and have had nothing more

thrown at you than a finger.



Next time a car is on your rear wheel, I would be less concerned with

your rights and more concerned with letting the person get by. I agree

you have every right to be in that lane, but if someone in a car does

not want you there...move. No one likes a bully but I know I have

learned that no matter where I am, if I can avoid a conflict with a

bully, I will. I find it FAR easier to step aside and give way than to

proclaim my rights from the hole in the wall my head just got put

into.... or from the ditch I just landed in with a broken head or broken

bike.



Send him a post card?? Based on your description of his behavior I doubt

this guy is going to lose too much sleep over that. These are not the

people we are going to win over in the great biker PR campaign and law

enforcement, though obligated, has shown little interest in reacting to

this type of reckless endangerment.



Please be most concerned with getting back home without incident.

Pissing off a driver while on a bike is like bringing a knife to a gun

fight...your gonna loose no matter if you are right or wrong.



Ted Gresh



.David.Auker. wrote:

 

 You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident,

tell

  him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for his

children, tell him the incident has been reported to the authorities,

tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the authorities

may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his

own

  self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by the

police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning that person's

conduct. He may lose a little sleep and think twice before he repeats

his behavior.

That's part of the beauty of the postcard: usually we just sign our

first

names, and don't bother including the return address.



Daivd

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Mark Wexler

M&M Business Services

503.358.8308

Ron Castia

I agree with the first part of Ted's message, avoid the conflict when

you can.



The second part whoever is just a little to passive. I had a similar

experience with some teenagers tossing a bottle at me. The stupid thing

on there part is that they were less than a mile from where they lived.

I saw where they turned and later that week took a drive. I found his

house with the car out front. I had the PD go over and pay him a visit,

he denied it, but the car had been moved from the position I reported

in. A position where the Lic. plate could not be seen from the street.

The kid told the officer that the vehicle did not run, she asked him how

he got it up the driveway that was at a 8% grade.



The officer could not really do anything, but I had his address now. He

recieved an annonmous letter specifically reminding him that I knew

where to find him, and if I heard of his vehicle involved in such an

incident again, over 4000 other pissed off cyclists would also know

where to find him.



Ron



tgr-@parametrix.com wrote:

 

You are fortunate to have remained upright and have had nothing more

thrown at you than a finger.



Next time a car is on your rear wheel, I would be less concerned with

your rights and more concerned with letting the person get by. I agree

you have every right to be in that lane, but if someone in a car does

not want you there...move. No one likes a bully but I know I have

learned that no matter where I am, if I can avoid a conflict with a

bully, I will. I find it FAR easier to step aside and give way than to

proclaim my rights from the hole in the wall my head just got put

into.... or from the ditch I just landed in with a broken head or broken



bike.



Send him a post card?? Based on your description of his behavior I doubt



this guy is going to lose too much sleep over that. These are not the

people we are going to win over in the great biker PR campaign and law

enforcement, though obligated, has shown little interest in reacting to

this type of reckless endangerment.



Please be most concerned with getting back home without incident.

Pissing off a driver while on a bike is like bringing a knife to a gun

fight...your gonna loose no matter if you are right or wrong.



Ted Gresh



.David.Auker. wrote:

 

 You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident, tell

him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for his

children, tell him the incident has been reported to the authorities,

tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the authorities

may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his own

self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by the

police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning that person's

conduct. He may lose a little sleep and think twice before he repeats

his behavior.

That's part of the beauty of the postcard: usually we just sign our

first

names, and don't bother including the return address.



Daivd

Peter Murphy

So let me understand this Ted....



You're solution is to acquiesce? Stick your head in the ground and count

your lucky stars that nothing happened and hope this problem goes away on

its own?



You do that and the problem will never go away. Start prosecuting these

"bullies" and the problem will start to get better.



There are many ways to deal with a bully, but if you want the bully to stop,

you need to stand up against them, otherwise they will continue to do what

they do. And by standing up, I do not necessarily mean using violence.

Postcards are good. Keep riding in the area, in fact, bring more people to

ride together in the area of concern. Get the County to put up more share

the road signs. Educate the non-riding public of the legal issues. And

report this idiot.



What time did this happen? What day? I'll gladly ride in that area.



Don't bring a knife to a gun fight...bring your mind. It seemed to work for

Ghandi and MLK,Jr. This is a freedom issue. The freedom to ride where you

are legally allowed. And no one has the right to take away that freedom.



Pete





 From: tgr-@parametrix.com

Reply-To: tgr-@parametrix.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] [SPAM] - Road rage. What to do...? - Email found

in subject

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:06:23 +0000



You are fortunate to have remained upright and have had nothing more

thrown at you than a finger.



Next time a car is on your rear wheel, I would be less concerned with

your rights and more concerned with letting the person get by. I agree

you have every right to be in that lane, but if someone in a car does

not want you there...move. No one likes a bully but I know I have

learned that no matter where I am, if I can avoid a conflict with a

bully, I will. I find it FAR easier to step aside and give way than to

proclaim my rights from the hole in the wall my head just got put

into.... or from the ditch I just landed in with a broken head or broken

bike.



Send him a post card?? Based on your description of his behavior I doubt

this guy is going to lose too much sleep over that. These are not the

people we are going to win over in the great biker PR campaign and law

enforcement, though obligated, has shown little interest in reacting to

this type of reckless endangerment.



Please be most concerned with getting back home without incident.

Pissing off a driver while on a bike is like bringing a knife to a gun

fight...your gonna loose no matter if you are right or wrong.



Ted Gresh



.David.Auker. wrote:

 

 You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident,

tell

  him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for his

children, tell him the incident has been reported to the authorities,

tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the authorities

may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his

own

  self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by the

police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning that person's

conduct. He may lose a little sleep and think twice before he repeats

his behavior.

That's part of the beauty of the postcard: usually we just sign our

first

names, and don't bother including the return address.



Daivd

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

markjgi-@yahoo.com

--0-926463028-1096309284=:26403

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii



I do not disagree about safety being paramount, but we must follow up with enforcement agencies. If the first officer tells you, "no contact, no crime" go up the food chain.



When I was 22 or so a guy did something similar to me. He was finally cited and went to trial, he was convicted. Now the penalty was minor, but it adds up. The next time he is an idiot the penalty gets larger.



Mark Ginsberg



tgr-@parametrix.com wrote:

You are fortunate to have remained upright and have had nothing more

thrown at you than a finger.



Next time a car is on your rear wheel, I would be less concerned with

your rights and more concerned with letting the person get by. I agree

you have every right to be in that lane, but if someone in a car does

not want you there...move. No one likes a bully but I know I have

learned that no matter where I am, if I can avoid a conflict with a

bully, I will. I find it FAR easier to step aside and give way than to

proclaim my rights from the hole in the wall my head just got put

into.... or from the ditch I just landed in with a broken head or broken

bike.



Send him a post card?? Based on your description of his behavior I doubt

this guy is going to lose too much sleep over that. These are not the

people we are going to win over in the great biker PR campaign and law

enforcement, though obligated, has shown little interest in reacting to

this type of reckless endangerment.



Please be most concerned with getting back home without incident.

Pissing off a driver while on a bike is like bringing a knife to a gun

fight...your gonna loose no matter if you are right or wrong.



Ted Gresh



.David.Auker. wrote:

 

 You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident, tell

him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for his

children, tell him the incident has been reported to the authorities,

tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the authorities

may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his own

self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by the

police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning that person's

conduct. He may lose a little sleep and think twice before he repeats

his behavior.

That's part of the beauty of the postcard: usually we just sign our

first

names, and don't bother including the return address.



Daivd

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com







Mark J. GinsbergAttorney At Law1001 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 1900Portland, OR 97204(503) 542-3000Fax (503) 295-3720 markjgi-@yahoo.comwww.bikesafetylaw.com











__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

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--0-926463028-1096309284=:26403

Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii



<DIV>I do not disagree about safety being paramount, but we must follow up with enforcement agencies. If the first officer tells you, "no contact, no crime" go up the food chain.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>When I was 22 or so a guy did something similar to me. He was finally cited and went to trial, he was convicted. Now the penalty was minor, but it adds up. The next time he is an idiot the penalty gets larger.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Mark Ginsberg<BR><BR><B><I>tgr-@parametrix.com</I></B> wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">You are fortunate to have remained upright and have had nothing more <BR>thrown at you than a finger.<BR><BR>Next time a car is on your rear wheel, I would be less concerned with <BR>your rights and more concerned with letting the person get by. I agree <BR>you have every right to be in that lane, but if someone in a car does <BR>not want you there...move. No one likes a bully but I know I have <BR>learned that no matter where I am, if I can avoid a conflict with a <BR>bully, I will. I find it FAR easier to step aside and give way than to <BR>proclaim my rights from the hole in the wall my head just got put <BR>into.... or from the ditch I just landed in with a broken head or broken <BR>bike.<BR><BR>Send him a post card?? Based on your description of his behavior I doubt <BR>this guy is going to lose too much sleep over that. These are not the <BR>people we are going to win over in

the great biker PR campaign and law <BR>enforcement, though obligated, has shown little interest in reacting to <BR>this type of reckless endangerment. <BR><BR>Please be most concerned with getting back home without incident. <BR>Pissing off a driver while on a bike is like bringing a knife to a gun <BR>fight...your gonna loose no matter if you are right or wrong. <BR><BR>Ted Gresh<BR><BR>.David.Auker. wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident, tell<BR>> > him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for his<BR>> > children, tell him the incident has been reported to the authorities,<BR>> > tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the authorities<BR>> > may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his own<BR>> > self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by the<BR>> > police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<ADDRESS>Mark J. Ginsberg</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Attorney At Law</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>1001 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 1900</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Portland, OR 97204</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>(503) 542-3000</ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS>Fax (503) 295-3720 </ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS><A href="mailto:markjgi-@yahoo.com">markjgi-@yahoo.com</A></ADDRESS>

<ADDRESS><A href="http://www.bikesafetylaw.com">www.bikesafetylaw.com</A> </ADDRESS></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><p>__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com

--0-926463028-1096309284=:26403--

jo-@aracnet.com

Years ago as a child in elementray school, I read a great book titled 'The Push-Cart Wars'. It was a story of how push-carts were being bullied by huge monstrous monolith trucks and the trucking companies that 'owned' them. The pushcarts banded together and fought back with guerilla tactics and with pea-shooters. Shooting tiny nails into the tires of the trucks and rendering them useless for a short time.



It is an appropro story for the times we live in. Do a Google on it. It should still be in print somewhere.



Tgr-@parametrix.com wrote :



 You are fortunate to have remained upright and have had nothing more

thrown at you than a finger.



Next time a car is on your rear wheel, I would be less concerned with

your rights and more concerned with letting the person get by. I agree

you have every right to be in that lane, but if someone in a car does

not want you there...move. No one likes a bully but I know I have

learned that no matter where I am, if I can avoid a conflict with a

bully, I will. I find it FAR easier to step aside and give way than to

proclaim my rights from the hole in the wall my head just got put

into.... or from the ditch I just landed in with a broken head or broken

bike.



Send him a post card?? Based on your description of his behavior I doubt

this guy is going to lose too much sleep over that. These are not the

people we are going to win over in the great biker PR campaign and law

enforcement, though obligated, has shown little interest in reacting to

this type of reckless endangerment.



Please be most concerned with getting back home without incident.

Pissing off a driver while on a bike is like bringing a knife to a gun

fight...your gonna loose no matter if you are right or wrong.



Ted Gresh



.David.Auker. wrote:

 

 You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident,

tell

  him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for

his

  children, tell him the incident has been reported to the

authorities,

  tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the

authorities

  may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his

own

  self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by

the

  police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning that

person's

  conduct. He may lose a little sleep and think twice before he

repeats

  his behavior.

That's part of the beauty of the postcard: usually we just sign our

first

names, and don't bother including the return address.



Daivd

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

tgr-@parametrix.com

You are fortunate to have remained upright and have had nothing more

thrown at you than a finger.



Next time a car is on your rear wheel, I would be less concerned with

your rights and more concerned with letting the person get by. I agree

you have every right to be in that lane, but if someone in a car does

not want you there...move. No one likes a bully but I know I have

learned that no matter where I am, if I can avoid a conflict with a

bully, I will. I find it FAR easier to step aside and give way than to

proclaim my rights from the hole in the wall my head just got put

into.... or from the ditch I just landed in with a broken head or broken

bike.



Send him a post card?? Based on your description of his behavior I doubt

this guy is going to lose too much sleep over that. These are not the

people we are going to win over in the great biker PR campaign and law

enforcement, though obligated, has shown little interest in reacting to

this type of reckless endangerment.



Please be most concerned with getting back home without incident.

Pissing off a driver while on a bike is like bringing a knife to a gun

fight...your gonna loose no matter if you are right or wrong.



Ted Gresh



.David.Auker. wrote:

 

 You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident, tell

him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for his

children, tell him the incident has been reported to the authorities,

tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the authorities

may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his own

self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by the

police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning that person's

conduct. He may lose a little sleep and think twice before he repeats

his behavior.

That's part of the beauty of the postcard: usually we just sign our

first

names, and don't bother including the return address.



Daivd

.David.Auker.

 You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident, tell

him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for his

children, tell him the incident has been reported to the authorities,

tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the authorities

may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his own

self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by the

police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning that person's

conduct. He may lose a little sleep and think twice before he repeats

his behavior.

That's part of the beauty of the postcard: usually we just sign our first

names, and don't bother including the return address.



Daivd

Chris Rycewicz

There are lots of things you may do, but the more difficult question is

what you should do. All cyclists have had similar experiences. You are

fortunate that the guy didn't put you in a ditch. You should be aware

that in the real world no governmental agency will do anything about

your experience because there was no physical injury of property damage.

The guy's actions as described constituted reckless driving and perhaps

criminal assault or endangerment but the police know that the guy has a

competing interpretation of the events and without an independent

witness no DA would prosecute.



With that said, the first step is to find out who the guy was. You have

a license plate number and vehicle description. You can obtain the

identity of the registered owner from the DMV. That is when your

difficult choices begin. Do you write the guy a letter? Do you

identify yourself or do you write an anonymous letter? Do you call him

on the phone?



You might want to write an anonymous letter, describe the incident, tell

him he could have hurt someone, tell him he set a poor example for his

children, tell him the incident has been reported to the authorities,

tell him you have witnesses, and tell him you believe the authorities

may be contacting him. This will make him think and worry about his own

self interest. No one wants to think that they may be visited by the

police carrying out a criminal investigation concerning that person's

conduct. He may lose a little sleep and think twice before he repeats

his behavior.          



Christopher A. Rycewicz

Rycewicz & Chenoweth LLP

601 SW Second Ave., Suite 1940

Portland, OR 97204

phone (503) 221-7958

fax (503) 221-2182

email: chr-@northwestlaw.com







INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION IS PRIVILEGED AND/OR

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-----Original Message-----

From: Cp53-@aol.com [mailto:Cp53-@aol.com]

Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 9:55 AM

To: TSch-@mackaysposito.com; cmur-@obra.org; obra

Subject: [SPAM] - [OBRA Chat] Road rage. What to do...? - Email found in

subject



Hey fellow two wheelers,

I need the the legal advise of anybody willing to give it.

I was riding with 2 other guys on Saturday and had a "run-in" with an

ANGRY driver.

It was between Fairhaven and HWY 26 on Skyline. We were coming down the

hill (doing 25-30mph...it's a 25 zone) and this guy was riding our wheel

so close and trying to pass on every bend. We were in the middle of the

lane--as we were doing the speed limit. Also because I've ridden up

that rode and enough others to know that he could very well pass us into

the on-coming lane and hit some other riders head-on or a car with a

family in it or whatever. That's why there is a double yellow line

there.

Anyways, we got to the bottom of the hill where it opens up a bit and he

came right up next to me and slams on his brakes to cut me off, forcing

me to lock up my rear wheel and fish tail. I managed to stay upright.

A yelling match ensued (he had 2 boys in the car with him-probably

between 9-13 yrs old-I bet they were proud of ole' dad) and then he took

off proudly waving his middle finger out of his convertible beamer.

I called the Police right away and they said since nothing happened (no

contact damage or injury) there was nothing they could do. What I

needed to do was call the DMV and they would send him a letter.

So, I call the DMV and guess what? You got it. They say "I don't know

why they would tell you that, we're not an enforcement agency".

I would like to send message to this guy and remind him there are laws

and that he's driving around a car with a license plate on it. It's

easy to find out who you are.

WHat can I do?

Thanks for your help. ENjoy the ride!

Chris



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com