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As a general rule, the person claiming libel does not have to prove
anything. It is up to the person defending against the libel claim to
prove the statement is true. If you alleged that a person tried to run
you off the road and posted it with his name a license number, he could
sue you for libel by claiming that it was not him or her, and that you
damaged their reputation. At that point, you may need some proof that
it is the correct person, and, of course, you could be wrong.
I fail to understand what you hope to accomplish with the website. At
the end of the day, the only thing that makes a difference is legal
consequences, which occur only by filing a complaint. I do not
understand what the resistance is to filing a complaint. There is
nothing that can be accomplished through self help, and it may expose
the cyclist to additional problems. Just exercise you legal rights both
on the road and in the legal arena, and please follow the rules of the
road.
As for the insurance companies, the have an inherent bias to find the
bicyclist to be in the wrong, and the claims adjusters do not understand
cycling issues as a rule. Se how much they understand the next time you
call regarding a stolen bicycle and tell them the price.
________________________________
From: Steve-@clark.wa.gov [mailto:Steve-@clark.wa.gov]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:53 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: george.-@pacificorp.comRE: [OBRA Chat] Road rage list
Not only that, but, it would be an open forum type of posting since,
presumably, the only reason for rejecting an incident would be the lack
of information such as date, vehicle type, location.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Murray [mailto:mike.m-@obra.org]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:41 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: george.-@pacificorp.comRE: [OBRA Chat] Road rage
list
I think George meant to say that a person can claim that the
information is inaccurate and therefore claim libel but whether they
would prevail is a matter of whether the inaccuracy could be proven.
Wouldn't a successful libel claim also require demonstrating
both inaccuracy and malice as well as damages and a connection between
the libel and the damages? If there is only a listing but no sending of
the information to insurance companies, employers, etc. then there would
be essentially be no damages. Demonstrating malice would also be
difficult. Lastly, who would be exposed to potential actions? I
recognize that in the US anybody can sue anybody at any time for nearly
anything but it seems like the potential targets of such an action; the
poster, the developer of the application and possible OBRA, would all be
unattractive targets for such an action since there is no insurance
coverage against libel claims and, for the most part, relatively small
amount of attachable assets.
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: Schreck, George
[mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 08:36 AM
To: da-@danfeiner.com; ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Road rage list
A person on the list can always claim libel if the
information is inaccurate. The problem will be proving that the
information is accurate as it will be the word of the driver against the
bicyclist. the person who made the posting and anyone who exercises any
editorial discretion can be liable. the good news is that the drivers
would tend to not access the site or know it exists. There should be
the opportunity for rebuttal, however. This is not my specialty, and I
would suggest that you consult someone with some expertise in the area.
________________________________
From: Dan Feiner [mailto:da-@danfeiner.com]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 8:22 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Road rage list
Here's one for the civil lawyers in the group: Does
anyone have any concerns about libel or slander liability? If whatever
entity creates the list exercises any type of editorial control over
what is posted, would it share in the liability, if any? Would the
accused drivers have the opportunity to post responses? My memory is
that the liklihood of liability increases as editorial control does and
decreases when an open forum is created. Consultation with a
communications lawyer might be worth the time and expense if this
concept moves towards reality. Dan
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=933590020-01102004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>As a general rule, the person claiming libel does not have
to prove anything. It is up to the person defending against the libel
claim to prove the statement is true. If you alleged that a person tried
to run you off the road and posted it with his name a license number, he could
sue you for libel by claiming that it was not him or her, and that you damaged
their reputation. At that point, you may need some proof that it is the
correct person, and, of course, you could be wrong.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=933590020-01102004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=933590020-01102004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I fail to understand what you hope to accomplish with the
website. At the end of the day, the only thing that makes a difference is legal
consequences, which occur only by filing a complaint. I do not understand
what the resistance is to filing a complaint. There is nothing that can be
accomplished through self help, and it may expose the cyclist to additional
problems. Just exercise you legal rights both on the road and in the legal
arena, and please follow the rules of the road.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=933590020-01102004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=933590020-01102004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>As for the insurance companies, the have an inherent bias
to find the bicyclist to be in the wrong, and the claims adjusters do not
understand cycling issues as a rule. Se how much they understand the next
time you call regarding a stolen bicycle and tell them the
price.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Steve-@clark.wa.gov
[mailto:Steve-@clark.wa.gov] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 01, 2004 9:53
AM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
george.-@pacificorp.comRE: [OBRA Chat] Road rage list<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=354434816-01102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Not
only that, but, it would be an open forum type of posting since, presumably, the
only reason for rejecting an incident would be the lack of information such as
date, vehicle type, location.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mike Murray
[mailto:mike.m-@obra.org] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 01, 2004 9:41
AM<BR><B>To:</B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
george.-@pacificorp.comRE: [OBRA Chat] Road rage
list<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=996322816-01102004>I
think George meant to say that a person can claim that the information is
inaccurate and therefore claim libel but whether they would prevail is a
matter of whether the inaccuracy could be proven.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=996322816-01102004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=996322816-01102004>Wouldn't a successful libel claim also require
demonstrating both inaccuracy and malice as well as damages and a connection
between the libel and the damages? If there is only a listing but no
sending of the information to insurance companies, employers, etc. then there
would be essentially be no damages. Demonstrating malice would also be
difficult. Lastly, who would be exposed to potential actions? I
recognize that in the US anybody can sue anybody at any time for nearly
anything but it seems like the potential targets of such an action; the
poster, the developer of the application and possible OBRA, would all be
unattractive targets for such an action since there is no insurance coverage
against libel claims and, for the most part, relatively small amount of
attachable assets.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Mike Murray </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Schreck,
George [mailto:george.-@pacificorp.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday,
October 01, 2004 08:36 AM<BR><B>To:</B> da-@danfeiner.com;
ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [OBRA Chat] Road rage
list<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=705223015-01102004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>A person on the list can always claim libel if the
information is inaccurate. The problem will be proving that the
information is accurate as it will be the word of the driver against the
bicyclist. the person who made the posting and anyone who exercises
any editorial discretion can be liable. the good news is that the
drivers would tend to not access the site or know it exists. There
should be the opportunity for rebuttal, however. This is not my
specialty, and I would suggest that you consult someone with some expertise
in the area.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Dan Feiner [mailto:da-@danfeiner.com]
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 01, 2004 8:22 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] Road rage
list<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here's one for the civil lawyers in the
group: Does anyone have any concerns about libel or slander
liability? If whatever entity creates the list exercises any type of
editorial control over what is posted, would it share in the liability, if
any? Would the accused drivers have the opportunity to post
responses? My memory is that the liklihood of liability increases as
editorial control does and decreases when an open forum is created.
Consultation with a communications lawyer might be worth the time and
expense if this concept moves towards reality. Dan</FONT></DIV><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE>
<P>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>This
email is confidential and may be legally privileged.<BR><BR>It is intended
solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else, unless
expressly approved by the sender or an authorized addressee, is
unauthorized.<BR><BR>If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you believe that you have received this
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copies.<BR><BR>==============================================================================<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
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