OBRA: OBRA Chat: "...be more careful" says T...

"...be more careful" says Tri-met driver

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Dan H

2004-10-07

"opening the door just as I come by in the bike lane."

If I'm reading you right, you attempt to pass a bus on the right when it

stops to pick up / let off passengers. That's just asking for it!

----- Original Message -----

From: "Steve Brown" <sbrow-@msn.com>

To: <t.hoff-@verizon.net>; <Steve-@clark.wa.gov>; <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:01 AM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] "...be more careful" says Tri-met driver

Could not hold back any longer. Not to make any direct comment about this

note specifically, but in general this is the type of response that really

gets me going.

I do not care what happened to one bus and one rider on one day. This

is no different than the person who takes the attitude that one bike

rolled

through a stop sign once and therefore all bikes should be banned from the

road, typical talk show caller response.

Trimet drivers are no different from the rest of the driving public or

any other professional driver. I have ridden on the roads with some who

are

polite and courteous, like all other drivers and some who are not. I

regularly report Trimet drivers who run me off the road or in any other

manner endanger me when I am riding. Trimet has a well serviced complaint

department. Sometimes I actually get a nice letter back. Complain, your

complaints are heard. I have even heard back from Trimet when a bus

almost

ran me over in the crosswalk in Hillsdale. The bus ran the red light at

the

same time.

Just because a bus has a schedule to keep is no reason to run cyclist

off the road. Sorry, 20 seconds late to the next stop is no

justification.

Follow a bus into Hillsdale on Beav/Hillsdale Hwy in from Beav. Average

speed is the same for both even if they pause a little instead of speeding

ahead and opening the door just as I come by in the bike lane.

Bottom line, bad bus drivers need to go. Complain.

on 10/7/04 10:34 AM, THOMAS HOFFMAN at t.hoff-@verizon.net wrote:

Trust me I've heard more than my share of

Biker Bus stories. The easiest thing that we

can do, is avoid the Buss routes. We can

easily find a different path home. The Bus

can't. Remember the driver is just trying to

do his job in the safest manner possible.

They do not come to your job and mess up your

day, so we should not try to mess with them.

Trimet drivers see all the stupid things that

happen on the road, so don't expect them to

think we know what we are doing as we ride

down the road.

A Bus Driver so much scratches an illegally

parked car, or slams on his breaks to avoid

hitting an inattentive pedestrian, will be

called to account and defend his actions. Any

incident that involves contact with any other

object, including bike messengers, requires a

drub test on the drivers. Don't for a second

think that TriMet is not looking out for the

safety of Portlanders.

My Dad is a driver, HE recently told me of a

biker that held him up as he worked through

town by Passing the bus and then slowing down

so as to restrict the busses progress. At

times the bus would pass the biker, when it

was safe of course, but the biker would then

pass the bus ride in the middle of the lane

and restrict the busses progress along its

route. At some point along the route the Bus

was required to make a very tight turn. My

father, being aware of the cyclist positioned

the bus in a manner that would force the

rider to slow down and allow the buss to

clear the corner. Remember, that these

drivers are trained professional and if they

so much as bounce off a curb, they Can be

written up. The Rider fell when he realized

that he could not make his way around the

bus. I think the path the biker had was into

a curb, but he fell in the street. The Biker

of course complained that he was "Hit" by the

bus. My old man was required to defend

himself. The riders actions were captured on

video camera's mounted on the bus. Recording

the entire event. TriMet could see the rider

restricting the progress of the bus, the

actions of the driver to prevent a collision

and the rider falling in the middle of the

street when he realized his next choice was

to ride into the curb.

I am not trying to say that the rider did

anything wrong, nor am I trying to defend my

old man, who is a year round Bike Commuter.

{Although you would never guess that looking

at him.} My point is, as bikers we should

complain when it is right to do so. Even if

we see it happening to somebody else. But

before you complain, you should think, what

did I do that would cause the problem? Be

honest with your self. from the stories I

have heard, Most driver complaints are shown

to be the fault of the citizen, not the

driver and problem areas that are consistent

are reviewed and discussed to keep people

safe.

I hope this sheds some light on a drivers

point of view. Personally I would like to

Chew out those riders that are always

bitching about TRI-MET, mostly 'cuz I have no

patience for whiners. But I encourage anyone

to report TRUTHFULLY anything that may happen

to them.

Tom Hoffman

PS This story is second hand news, as I

remember it.

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve-@clark.wa.gov

[mailto:Steve-@clark.wa.gov]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:36 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: Re: RE: [OBRA Chat] "...be

more careful" says

Tri-met driver

If I'm not mistaken, that same number is on

the back of the

bus. The number that seems to prove useless

is the number of

the route that is displayed along with

where the bus is

going, usually at the top center of the

windshield

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave German

[mailto:dave_g-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:30 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: FW: Re: RE: [OBRA Chat] "...be

more careful" says

Tri-met driver

All, note this advice regarding the bus #

from a friend

within Tri-met:

Yeah, George is absolutely right. We do

take these things

seriously.

The

trick is getting the right number so we

can identify the

driver. You want

to get the number in the bottom right

corner of the

windshield. With that

number, we can figure out who had that bus

at that time of

day. Once the

driver is identified s/he can be contacted

and spoken to.

Hope that helps.

-Tom

Tom,

Any suggestions?

Dave

From: "Schreck, George"

<george.-@pacificorp.com<mailto:george

.sch-@pacificorp.com>>

Reply-To:

george.-@pacificorp.com<mailto:george.

schr-@pacificorp.com>

To:

velodrom-@yahoo.com<mailto:velodromerac

in-@yahoo.com>, OBRA

Chat

<ob-@topica.com<mailto:ob-@topica.com>>

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] "...be more

careful" says Tri-met driver

Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:19:49 -0700

I have had a few similar events where

the bus pulled

over to the curb

to

pick up a passenger without noting

that I was already

there and ran me

into the curb. I received a similar

response from the

driver, and my

response was that I was going to file

a report with Tri-Met. I

received

an apology from the driver

immediately. Tri-Met takes

these events

very

seriously and generally does not

tolerate the type of

response you

received. If you have the number of

the bus or the name

of the driver,

file a report with Tri-Met.

________________________________

From: steve garcia

[mailto:velodrom-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 5:14 PM

To: OBRA Chat

Subject: [OBRA Chat] "...be more

careful" says Tri-met driver

After getting run off the road by a

Tri-met bus today, I

caught up with

the bus at a light and told the driver

she just ran me

into the bushes

on the last corner. Her response was

the same one she

gave me about 2

or 3 months ago, "you bike riders need

to be more careful".

I attempted to describe my view of

events but she just

threatened to

call the police. I told her that

would be fine since we

were both

involved in the same accident.

However, after waiting

for the police

to

show up for over 20 minutes, I was

encouraged to let the

commuters on

the bus to go home, meaning a few of

the commuters were

a bit upset at

me. Luckily, for me probably, the

driver wouldn't let

this one guy off

the bus.

So, "you bike riders need to be more

careful"!

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THOMAS HOFFMAN

2004-10-07

I agree. Complain! Get rid of the bad

drivers!

I am only trying to illustrate the Drivers

viewpoint.

I think Almost everyone of them is doing a

good job.

I thought it might be interesting to some of

you.

Call me the Devils advocate if you must.

tom

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve Brown

[mailto:sbrow-@msn.com]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:01 AM

To: t.hoff-@verizon.net;

Steve-@clark.wa.gov; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] "...be more

careful" says Tri-met driver

Could not hold back any longer. Not to

make any direct

comment about this note specifically, but

in general this is

the type of response that really gets me

going.

I do not care what happened to one bus

and one rider on

one day. This is no different than the

person who takes the

attitude that one bike rolled through a

stop sign once and

therefore all bikes should be banned from

the road, typical

talk show caller response.

Trimet drivers are no different from

the rest of the

driving public or any other professional

driver. I have

ridden on the roads with some who are

polite and courteous,

like all other drivers and some who are

not. I regularly

report Trimet drivers who run me off the

road or in any other

manner endanger me when I am riding.

Trimet has a well

serviced complaint department. Sometimes I

actually get a

nice letter back. Complain, your

complaints are heard. I

have even heard back from Trimet when a bus

almost ran me

over in the crosswalk in Hillsdale. The bus

ran the red light

at the same time.

Just because a bus has a schedule to

keep is no reason to

run cyclist off the road. Sorry, 20

seconds late to the next

stop is no justification.

Follow a bus into Hillsdale on

Beav/Hillsdale Hwy in from

Beav. Average speed is the same for both

even if they pause

a little instead of speeding ahead and

opening the door just

as I come by in the bike lane.

Bottom line, bad bus drivers need to

go. Complain.

on 10/7/04 10:34 AM, THOMAS HOFFMAN at

t.hoff-@verizon.net wrote:

Trust me I've heard more than my share of

Biker Bus stories. The

easiest thing that we can do, is avoid

the Buss routes. We

can easily

find a different path home. The Bus

can't. Remember the

driver is just

trying to do his job in the safest manner

possible.

They do not come to your job and mess up

your day, so we should not

try to mess with them.

Trimet drivers see all the stupid things

that happen on the

road, so

don't expect them to think we know what

we are doing as we

ride down

the road.

A Bus Driver so much scratches an

illegally parked car, or slams on

his breaks to avoid hitting an

inattentive pedestrian, will

be called

to account and defend his actions. Any

incident that

involves contact

with any other object, including bike

messengers, requires

a drub test

on the drivers. Don't for a second think

that TriMet is not looking

out for the safety of Portlanders.

My Dad is a driver, HE recently told me

of a biker that

held him up as

he worked through town by Passing the bus

and then slowing

down so as

to restrict the busses progress. At times

the bus would pass the

biker, when it was safe of course, but

the biker would then

pass the

bus ride in the middle of the lane and

restrict the busses progress

along its route. At some point along the

route the Bus was

required to

make a very tight turn. My father, being

aware of the cyclist

positioned the bus in a manner that would

force the rider

to slow down

and allow the buss to clear the corner.

Remember, that

these drivers

are trained professional and if they so

much as bounce off a curb,

they Can be written up. The Rider fell

when he realized

that he could

not make his way around the bus. I think

the path the biker had was

into a curb, but he fell in the street.

The Biker of course

complained

that he was "Hit" by the bus. My old man

was required to defend

himself. The riders actions were captured

on video camera's

mounted on

the bus. Recording the entire event.

TriMet could see the rider

restricting the progress of the bus, the

actions of the driver to

prevent a collision and the rider falling

in the middle of

the street

when he realized his next choice was to

ride into the curb.

I am not trying to say that the rider did

anything wrong, nor am I

trying to defend my old man, who is a

year round Bike Commuter.

{Although you would never guess that

looking at him.} My

point is, as

bikers we should complain when it is

right to do so. Even

if we see it

happening to somebody else. But before

you complain, you

should think,

what did I do that would cause the

problem? Be honest with

your self.

from the stories I have heard, Most

driver complaints are

shown to be

the fault of the citizen, not the driver

and problem areas that are

consistent are reviewed and discussed to

keep people safe.

I hope this sheds some light on a drivers

point of view.

Personally I

would like to Chew out those riders that

are always bitching about

TRI-MET, mostly 'cuz I have no patience

for whiners. But I

encourage

anyone to report TRUTHFULLY anything that

may happen to them.

Tom Hoffman

PS This story is second hand news, as I

remember it.

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve-@clark.wa.gov

[mailto:Steve-@clark.wa.gov]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:36 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: Re: RE: [OBRA Chat] "...be

more careful" says

Tri-met driver

If I'm not mistaken, that same number is

on

the back of the

bus. The number that seems to prove

useless

is the number of

the route that is displayed along with

where the bus is

going, usually at the top center of the

windshield

-----Original Message-----

From: Dave German

[mailto:dave_g-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:30 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: FW: Re: RE: [OBRA Chat] "...be

more careful" says

Tri-met driver

All, note this advice regarding the bus

#

from a friend

within Tri-met:

Yeah, George is absolutely right. We

do

take these things

seriously.

The

trick is getting the right number so we

can identify the

driver. You want

to get the number in the bottom right

corner of the

windshield. With that

number, we can figure out who had that

bus

at that time of

day. Once the

driver is identified s/he can be

contacted

and spoken to.

Hope that helps.

-Tom

Tom,

Any suggestions?

Dave

From: "Schreck, George"

<george.-@pacificorp.com<mailto:george

.sch-@pacificorp.com>>

Reply-To:

george.-@pacificorp.com<mailto:george.

schr-@pacificorp.com>

To: