OBRA: OBRA Chat: Mtn bike # of riders do the...

Mike Murray

2004-10-08

There are also so far this year 182 new CCX only members, i.e. almost 10% of

the OBRA membership ONLY races cross.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Doug Evans [mailto:Dou-@sprbrk.com]

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 11:07 AM

To: tim-@comcast.net; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

The great thing about cross is that there are very few conflicts as mtb and

road season are over. Also, there are lots of racers that race cross that

do not race mtb and lots of racers who race cross and not road. Everyone is

racing at the same place on the same day.

-----Original Message-----

From: Tim M. [mailto:tim-@comcast.net]

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 10:57 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

SF wrote- "cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants"

It is really hard to compare country Mt. bike to cyclocross. Cyclocross also

has a festive race track atmosphere that makes it unique. Its popular with

novice racers because you don't get dropped, you get lapped. And the race is

over when it's over. For many, an hour in the mud and rain is easier to

commit to than 50 miles through the woods because if things don't work out,

you just walk back to your car.

A short track mt bike series modeled after the cross crusade might, over

time, match the type of participation that cross crusade has. I think

something like that was attempted at PIR a few years back. I think short

track would be popular with kids and parents (because they can easily watch

the race).

Tim

----- Original Message -----

From: "Shane Fletcher" <shane_f-@comcast.net>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:23 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

The fact that cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants attests to

the fact that the categories that are used work. So to me a slight

adjustment

to

those categories for the mountain bike races would still give everyone

a chance to be competitive and significantly reduce the number of

categories.

Doing that it might look something like this.

Cat A = Pro/Elite

Cat B = Expert

Cat C = Sport

Masters A 30+ = 35-44

Masters B 30+ = 45-54

Masters 50+ = 55+

Single speed = Single speed

Juniors = 15 -18 male

under 18 female

Kiddies = 14 and under

Women A = Pro/Expert

Women B = Sport

Beginner = Beginners categories for both male and female.

----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>; "'Petr Kakes'" <Skibowlb-@aol.com>;

"Sally R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added

up

the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing

that caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume

of riders that do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to

rework the category system and make it simpler for the race

organizers by consolidating some of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number.

What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Brian Baumann

2004-10-08

First, I think it's great that people are

brainstorming ways to improve the mtn bike scene in

Oregon. It's a great first step.

After having had this discussion many times with

fellow racers, I think that the attendance at races is

lower for a couple of reasons (aside from scheduling

conflicts). First, the day of fee penalty is steep

(40% of the original race fee). Second, mtn. bike

racing is HARD, and intimidating for beginning racers.

A lot of the races here involve a climb that can take

30 or more minutes to complete, which people end up

walking because they are so difficult. A friend of

mine did his first race this year, said it almost

killed him, but he loved it. However, he never did

another race. It's easy to forget the great rush you

get at the end of the race, but it's really easy to

remember the pain incurred during the climbs. Third,

the big loops can be intimidating for people to

navigate and they fear getting lost. Lastly, the

courses do not allow for crowd participation which

makes them less of an event for attracting families

and riders that enjoy that type of atmosphere.

As far as the 3 separate series is concerned, I much

preferred the one series because I enjoyed being part

of an overall series against all of the racers in the

state. It was exciting to see how I did as the year

went on, and not just how I performed in one given

race. It was exciting to see the series unfold, and

the sense of accomplishment was very rewarding at the

end of the year.

I don't have any answers because I love the racing

here in OR, but the attendance is far lower than the

state I came from. A good idea might be to survey

racers at the events and use that information to make

ongoing improvements to the mtb race scene, or ask

people that are mtb enthusiasts why they choose not to

race and what can be done to encourage them to start.

Brian

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Chad Sperry

2004-10-08

I agree with Mike. It should be up to us as responsible members of

OBRA to work out the scheduling issues. I know two years ago when

the Hood River group was looking at putting a new stage race together

(Mt. Hood Cycling Classic) the last thing I wanted to do was bully

our way on to the calendar damaging any of the current races that

were going on. So what I did was look at the previous years calendar

picked a couple of weekends that were open and then contacted Mark

and Nathan (Columbia Plateau and Elkhorn) to see if there was room

for another stage race. In the end these guys were great to work

with and we actually met at the pub sat down and worked out a

schedule that would allow for riders to recuperate between events.

The result was record turnouts these past two years at all three

events. It comes down to this be open to communicate with othe

organizers regarding scheduling and if there is no room on the

weekend you want be open minded to look at alternative weekends. We

are al very fortunate that Oregon has probably the most races per

capita of any state in the nation but that comes at a price. You

have to be willing to be flexible and work together to make things

run smoothly.

Chad

---- Original Message ----

From: mike.m-@obra.org

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35

different categories?

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:21:18 -0700

I have to point out that the scheduling of races is up to the

organizers of

the individual events. OBRA does not and probably cannot dictate

specific

days on which bike races can or can not be scheduled. It is, of

course,

generally in the race organizer's best interest to schedule their

event in

such a way that it gets maximum attendance. Maximum attendance with

minimum

output of effort will generally come when your event is not

competing with

another event held on or near the same date. To that end OBRA

provides

information on the scheduling of events to anyone as soon as

possible. For

example, the 2005 schedule is nearly complete at present. Despite

this,

race organizers elect to schedule events which conflict as Craig has

noted.

Clearly there are other factors come into play when organizers

select dates.

Candi makes considerable effort at mediating date conflicts between

race

organizers but ultimately the organizers make their choices and then

the

riders make their choices. It would be best if all parties choose

wisely.

Mike

-----Original Message-----

From: Craig Austin [mailto:aust-@exponent.com]

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 08:50 AM

To: 'shane_f-@comcast.net'; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35

different

categories?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but this is something I've been

frustrated with

for several years now. I think there are too many categories as

well, but I

don't think that limits participation. To me, the biggest problem is

poor

coordination of schedule. I know it's tough to get open weekends on

the

schedule, and the schedule is fairly full, but here are a few

glaring

examples of I-just-can't-be-in-two-places-at-once:

Saturday, April 10 has the BFS time trial, the Big K mountain bike

race, and

the Kings Valley road race. The latter are two of the bigger races

of the

year for some people. Both the Big K and Kings Valley get many, many

participants who would love to do both races. Sunday, April 11 has

NOTHING

on the schedule (probably because it's Easter, maybe a good reason,

but let

me finish).

April 24 and 25 are COMPLETELY OPEN. Why not have one of those races

that

weekend? Or why not have the Cascade Chainbreaker April 24 or 25,

instead of

on May 8, during the Columbia Plateau?

Sunday, May 23 has the Swan Island crit, big attendance most years,

and the

Bear Spring MTB race. Why not move one of those to Saturday the

22nd? I'm

betting most mountain bikers were NOT in the team time trial on that

Saturday, though a few may have been. Not as many as were in the

crit.

Saturday May 29 is open. But Sunday the 30th has both Pickett's

Charge AND

the Rehearsal Road Race. Why not one on each day?

June 13 is both the Oakridge MTB races and the Road Race

championships. June

is pretty full and I'm sure it's hard to add a race then, but July 3

and 4

has only the State Games track, which I think has very little

overlap with

mountain biking. The following weekend, July 10 and 11, has the

State Games

MTB race on top of the Cascade Classic.

July 25 has the Silverton crit (part of the omnium if you're racing

it) and

the Firecracker (Oregon MTB championships). The following Saturday,

July 31,

only has a TANDEM STAGE RACE. Why not have the Firecracker then? Or

August

7, which only has Junior Track? Silverton RR and crit have lots of

mountain

bikers attending.

I know not all these schedule conflicts can be resolved. And I'm

sure it's

hard to get the venue when you want it. But I'm sure a few of these

schedule

overlaps could be fixed easily, especially when there are open dates

or

weekends. As someone who races both road and mountain bikes, I know

there

are many mountain bikers who don't race as much as they'd like

simply

because there's a road race on the same day. But in my opinion

schedule, way

more than number of categories, is the limiting factor in racer

attendance.

A little accommodation goes a long way. I for one would Saturday and

Sunday

races, and I've talked with many others who would, too. When you

have to

choose between road and mountain bike races on the same day, we all

lose.

Craig Austin

-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Fletcher [mailto:shane_f-@comcast.net]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:23 PM

To: obra

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35

different

categories?

The fact that cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants attests to

the

fact that the categories that are used work. So to me a slight

adjustment to

those categories for the mountain bike races would still give

everyone a

chance to be competitive and significantly reduce the number of

categories.

Doing that it might look something like this.

Cat A = Pro/Elite

Cat B = Expert

Cat C = Sport

Masters A 30+ = 35-44

Masters B 30+ = 45-54

Masters 50+ = 55+

Single speed = Single speed

Juniors = 15 -18 male

under 18 female

Kiddies = 14 and under

Women A = Pro/Expert

Women B = Sport

Beginner = Beginners categories for both male and female.

----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>; "'Petr Kakes'"

<Skibowlb-@aol.com>;

"Sally R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35

different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I

added up

the attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One

thing

that caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume

of

riders that do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to

rework

the category system and make it simpler for the race organizers by

consolidating some of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our

number. What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Doug Evans

2004-10-08

The great thing about cross is that there are very few conflicts as mtb and road season are over. Also, there are lots of racers that race cross that do not race mtb and lots of racers who race cross and not road. Everyone is racing at the same place on the same day.

-----Original Message-----

From: Tim M. [mailto:tim-@comcast.net]

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 10:57 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35

different categories?

SF wrote- "cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants"

It is really hard to compare country Mt. bike to cyclocross.

Cyclocross also has a festive race track atmosphere that makes it unique.

Its popular with novice racers because you don't get dropped, you

get lapped. And the race is over when it's over. For many, an hour

in the mud and rain is easier to commit to than 50 miles through the

woods because if things don't work out, you just walk back to your car.

A short track mt bike series modeled after the cross crusade might,

over time, match the type of participation that cross crusade has. I

think something like that was attempted at PIR a few years back.

I think short track would be popular with kids and parents (because

they can easily watch the race).

Tim

----- Original Message -----

From: "Shane Fletcher" <shane_f-@comcast.net>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:23 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

The fact that cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants attests to the

fact that the categories that are used work. So to me a slight adjustment

to

those categories for the mountain bike races would still give everyone a

chance to be competitive and significantly reduce the number of

categories.

Doing that it might look something like this.

Cat A = Pro/Elite

Cat B = Expert

Cat C = Sport

Masters A 30+ = 35-44

Masters B 30+ = 45-54

Masters 50+ = 55+

Single speed = Single speed

Juniors = 15 -18 male

under 18 female

Kiddies = 14 and under

Women A = Pro/Expert

Women B = Sport

Beginner = Beginners categories for both male and female.

----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>; "'Petr Kakes'" <Skibowlb-@aol.com>;

"Sally R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up

the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders

that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some

of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number.

What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Tim M.

2004-10-08

SF wrote- "cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants"

It is really hard to compare country Mt. bike to cyclocross.

Cyclocross also has a festive race track atmosphere that makes it unique.

Its popular with novice racers because you don't get dropped, you

get lapped. And the race is over when it's over. For many, an hour

in the mud and rain is easier to commit to than 50 miles through the

woods because if things don't work out, you just walk back to your car.

A short track mt bike series modeled after the cross crusade might,

over time, match the type of participation that cross crusade has. I

think something like that was attempted at PIR a few years back.

I think short track would be popular with kids and parents (because

they can easily watch the race).

Tim

----- Original Message -----

From: "Shane Fletcher" <shane_f-@comcast.net>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:23 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

The fact that cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants attests to the

fact that the categories that are used work. So to me a slight adjustment

to

those categories for the mountain bike races would still give everyone a

chance to be competitive and significantly reduce the number of

categories.

Doing that it might look something like this.

Cat A = Pro/Elite

Cat B = Expert

Cat C = Sport

Masters A 30+ = 35-44

Masters B 30+ = 45-54

Masters 50+ = 55+

Single speed = Single speed

Juniors = 15 -18 male

under 18 female

Kiddies = 14 and under

Women A = Pro/Expert

Women B = Sport

Beginner = Beginners categories for both male and female.

----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>; "'Petr Kakes'" <Skibowlb-@aol.com>;

"Sally R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up

the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders

that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some

of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number.

What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

McCann Family

2004-10-08

I have 4 reasons that I have cut back on my MTB racing.

1. With there being 3 race series. I didn't do the Clif series. I only did

one of the Mt Hood series (only because I happen to be up there that

weekend). I did 4 of the OR. series. In years past I would have done most of

the Mt Hood series because it was part of the only series there was. There

was also a couple of the Clif series I would have done IF they were part of

a bigger series. I would like to see ONE series.

2. I live in Grants Pass, It is very expensive to do a race with the cost of

the race, the cost of the gas and food and logging. I would say about 1/2

the races I decide Saturday to go to. But than there is that 10.00 late fee.

Maybe cut out the late fee and add some other reason to pre- register (free

shirt, or socks or an extra raffle ticket, or let the pre-register people

start the race in the front row)

3. Everyone loves the raffles there use to be. Its just one more reason to

go to a race or not to go to a race.

4. I would love to see some more races in Southern Oregon.

These are all reasons that would get me to do one + more races next year.

From: cmur-@obra.org

Reply-To: cmur-@obra.org

To: obra <ob-@topica.com>, 'Petr Kakes' <Skibowlb-@aol.com>, "Sally

R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:06:15 -0700

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders

that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number. What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Nathan Hobson

2004-10-08

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I believe the lack of numbers at some races is due to competition from other cycling events and has nothing to do with age categories.

There are a lot of us who just race bikes and it really does not matter whether it is a mountain bike, road bike, track bike, cross bike, or a TT bike. During the peak of the OBRA season, in which the mountain bike races fall, there are so many opportunities to race that I end up choosing what is most convenient and that is usually a local race for me. Since I live in Portland I end up racing my road and track bike the most even though I started out racing mountain bikes.

If mountain bike racing, like cross racing, was the only event on the calendar during the summer, I believe you would see dramatic increases in participation.

I believe the promoters of mountain bike races and the promoters of road races, thanks for putting on the races:), should take a long look at the OBRA schedule and try to fill in the gaps between big events though there are not many. I would suggest we introduce a "calendar meeting" with OBRA and all potential promoters to work on a preliminary schedule and perhaps work out some potential conflicts before they happen. At the very least try and avoid the long standing popular dates. There is more cross over from one sport to the other then you might think. Last year there were multiple "two race" weekends. Unfortunately, often those two races both fell on a Sunday/Saturday or were in direct competition with a key road race. Moving one of those races to a Saturday and one on Sunday would really help both events. I know members of my team are always split on which race to attend. Obviously, there are the guys who always choose the mountain bike and those that always choose the road but a lot of us would do both given the opportunity.

Masters A 35+

Masters B 35+

Pro

Expert

Sport

Beginner

Junior

Good racing and promoting,

Nathan Hobson

www.elkhornclassic.com



4/10 no race 4/11

Built for Speed TT Series

Big K MTB (180 KB PDF flyer, 276 KB PDF registration form)

Kings Valley Road Race

5/9

Cascade Chainbreaker MTB (276 KB PDF registration form)

Columbia Plateau Stage Race

5/30 no race 5/29

Pickett's Charge XC MTB

Oregon Rehearsal Road Race

6/6

Mt Hood Cycling Classic

Race Across Oregon

Race at Reehers MTB

Humbug Hurry Up MTB

Bend Bicycle Festival

6/13

Oakridge Fat Tire Festival MTB (308 KB PDF flyer, 276 KB PDF registration form)

Oregon Road Race Championship

7/11

Cascade Classic

State Games of Oregon XC MTB

Gorge Games Freeride MTB

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim M.

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 1:37 AM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different categories?

Rich Cowan wrote: "something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and 30-39"....

This is a reasonable suggestion. The 30- 39 year olds are kicking the butt 19-29's. If I remember right,

the winning sport vet had 10 minutes on the winning sport senior at mudslinger........10 minutes.

Sport seniors are suppose to be faster that sport vets...right? Vets are less likely to move up a class

because they are less focused on laddering up. But the senior sport racers would benefit racing fast vets

like Jon Wilson. So, combining the class would be a benefit to the senior sport racers.

But, would it really help promoters?

Tim

----- Original Message -----

    From: Cowan-@aol.com

    To: ob-@topica.com

    Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 7:22 PM

    Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different categories?

    I agree with Candi that there are too many categories. If it's a smaller race there may be less than 10 riders in your respective category. I'm not sure what the best way to consolidate the categories is, but maybe something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and 30-39. Then maybe 40+, instead of 40-49 and 50+.   That would get rid of some categories and make the races more competitive.

    rich

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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<HTML><HEAD>

<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=GENERATOR>

<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"

bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I believe the lack of numbers at some races is due to competition from

other cycling events and has nothing to do with age categories.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>There are a lot of us who just race bikes and it really does not matter

whether it is a mountain bike, road bike, track bike, cross bike, or a TT

bike.  During the peak of the OBRA season, in which the mountain bike

races fall, there are so many opportunities to race that I end up

choosing what is most convenient and that is usually a local race for me.

Since I live in Portland I end up racing my road and track bike the

most even though I started out racing mountain bikes.   </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>If mountain bike racing, like cross racing, was the only event on the

calendar during the summer, I believe you would see dramatic increases

in participation.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I believe the promoters of mountain bike races and the promoters of

road races, thanks for putting on the races:), should take a long look at the

OBRA schedule and try to fill in the gaps between big events though there

are not many. I would suggest we introduce a "calendar meeting" with

OBRA and all potential promoters to work on a preliminary schedule and perhaps

work out some potential conflicts before they happen.  At the very

least try and avoid the long standing popular dates. There is more cross

over from one sport to the other then you might think. Last year there

were multiple "two race" weekends. Unfortunately, often those two

races both fell on a Sunday/Saturday or were in direct competition with a key

road race. Moving one of those races to a Saturday and one on Sunday

would really help both events. I know members of my team are always split

on which race to attend. Obviously, there are the guys who always choose

the mountain bike and those that always choose the road but a lot of us would

do both given the opportunity.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Masters A 35+</DIV>

<DIV>Masters B 35+</DIV>

<DIV>Pro</DIV>

<DIV>Expert</DIV>

<DIV>Sport</DIV>

<DIV>Beginner</DIV>

<DIV>Junior</DIV></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Good racing and promoting,</DIV>

<DIV>Nathan Hobson</DIV>

<DIV><A href="http://www.elkhornclassic.com">www.elkhornclassic.com</A></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV><STRONG>4/10 no race 4/11<BR></STRONG><A

href="http://www.obra.org/flyers/2004/built_for_speed_tt.html">Built for Speed

TT Series</A> <BR><BR>Big K MTB <SMALL><FONT size=2>(</FONT><A

href="http://www.obra.org/mtb/mtb_current/fliers/BigK_04.pdf"><FONT size=2>180

KB PDF flyer</FONT></A><FONT size=2>, </FONT><A

href="http://www.obra.org/mtb/mtb_current/fliers/General_OMBS_cross_country_reg_form.pdf"><FONT

size=2>276 KB PDF registration form</FONT></A><FONT size=2>)</FONT></SMALL>

<BR><BR><A href="http://www.obra.org/flyers/2004/kings_valley.html">Kings Valley

Road Race</A></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>5/9</DIV>

<DIV><BR><A

href="http://www.webcyclery.com/home/other/chainbreaker.html">Cascade

Chainbreaker</A> MTB <SMALL><FONT size=2>(</FONT><A

href="http://www.obra.org/mtb/mtb_current/fliers/General_OMBS_cross_country_reg_form.pdf"><FONT

size=2>276 KB PDF registration form</FONT></A><FONT size=2>)</FONT></SMALL>

<BR><BR><A href="http://www.obra.org/columbiaplateau/race.htm">Columbia Plateau

Stage Race</A></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV><STRONG>5/30 no race 5/29 <BR></STRONG><A

href="http://www.lowesbike.com/pickett's.htm">Pickett's Charge XC</A> MTB

<BR><BR><A href="http://www.obra.org/flyers/2004/oregon_state_rr.html">Oregon

Rehearsal Road Race</A></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV><STRONG>6/6<BR></STRONG><A href="http://www.mthoodcyclingclassic.com/">Mt

Hood Cycling Classic</A> <BR><BR><A href="http://www.raceacrossoregon.com/"><A

href="http://www.raceacrossoregon.com/">Race Across Oregon</A> <BR><BR><A

href="http://www.obra.org/flyers/2004/race_at_reheers.html">Race at Reehers

MTB</A> <BR><BR><A href="http://users.snowcrest.net/kgreen/">Humbug Hurry Up

MTB</A> <BR><BR>Bend Bicycle Festival</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV><STRONG>6/13<BR></STRONG><A href="http://www.oakridgefattire.com/">Oakridge

Fat Tire Festival</A> MTB <SMALL><FONT size=2>(</FONT><A

href="http://www.obra.org/mtb/mtb_current/fliers/OakridgeFTF.pdf"><FONT

size=2>308 KB PDF flyer</FONT></A><FONT size=2>, </FONT><A

href="http://www.obra.org/mtb/mtb_current/fliers/General_OMBS_cross_country_reg_form.pdf"><FONT

size=2>276 KB PDF registration form</FONT></A><FONT size=2>)</FONT></SMALL>

<BR><BR><A href="http://www.obra.org/flyers/2004/oregon_state_rr.html">Oregon

Road Race Championship</A></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV><STRONG>7/11<BR></STRONG><A href="http://www.cascade-classic.org/">Cascade

Classic</A> <BR><BR><A href="http://www.skibowl.com/winter/bikepark.html">State

Games of Oregon XC</A> MTB <BR><BR><A

href="http://www.gorgegames.com/sp_mtb_free.cfm">Gorge Games Freeride</A>

MTB</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>  </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=-@comcast.net href="mailto:tim-@comcast.net">Tim M.</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 08, 2004 1:37

AM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of

riders do they warrant 35 different categories?</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<DIV>Rich Cowan wrote: "something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and

30-39"....</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>This is a reasonable suggestion. The 30- 39 year olds are kicking the

butt 19-29's. If I remember right, </DIV>

<DIV>the winning sport vet had 10 minutes on the winning sport

senior at mudslinger........10 minutes. </DIV>

<DIV>Sport seniors are suppose to be faster that sport vets...right?

Vets are less likely to move up a class </DIV>

<DIV>because they are less focused on laddering up. But the senior sport

racers would benefit racing fast vets</DIV>

<DIV>like Jon Wilson. So, combining the class would be a benefit to the

senior sport racers.</DIV>

<DIV>But, would it really help promoters? </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Tim</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

    <DIV

    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

    <A title=Co-@aol.com

    href="mailto:Cowan-@aol.com">Cowan-@aol.com</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@topica.com

    href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 07, 2004 7:22

    PM</DIV>

    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of

    riders do they warrant 35 different categories?</DIV>

    <DIV><BR></DIV>

    <DIV>I agree with Candi that there are too many categories. If it's a

    smaller race there may be less than 10 riders in your respective

    category. I'm not sure what the best way to consolidate the

    categories is, but maybe something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and

    30-39. Then maybe 40+, instead of 40-49 and 50+.   That

    would get rid of some categories and make the races more competitive.</DIV>

    <DIV> </DIV>

    <DIV>rich</DIV><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Mike Murray

2004-10-08

I have to point out that the scheduling of races is up to the organizers of

the individual events. OBRA does not and probably cannot dictate specific

days on which bike races can or can not be scheduled. It is, of course,

generally in the race organizer's best interest to schedule their event in

such a way that it gets maximum attendance. Maximum attendance with minimum

output of effort will generally come when your event is not competing with

another event held on or near the same date. To that end OBRA provides

information on the scheduling of events to anyone as soon as possible. For

example, the 2005 schedule is nearly complete at present. Despite this,

race organizers elect to schedule events which conflict as Craig has noted.

Clearly there are other factors come into play when organizers select dates.

Candi makes considerable effort at mediating date conflicts between race

organizers but ultimately the organizers make their choices and then the

riders make their choices. It would be best if all parties choose wisely.

Mike

-----Original Message-----

From: Craig Austin [mailto:aust-@exponent.com]

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 08:50 AM

To: 'shane_f-@comcast.net'; obra

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but this is something I've been frustrated with

for several years now. I think there are too many categories as well, but I

don't think that limits participation. To me, the biggest problem is poor

coordination of schedule. I know it's tough to get open weekends on the

schedule, and the schedule is fairly full, but here are a few glaring

examples of I-just-can't-be-in-two-places-at-once:

Saturday, April 10 has the BFS time trial, the Big K mountain bike race, and

the Kings Valley road race. The latter are two of the bigger races of the

year for some people. Both the Big K and Kings Valley get many, many

participants who would love to do both races. Sunday, April 11 has NOTHING

on the schedule (probably because it's Easter, maybe a good reason, but let

me finish).

April 24 and 25 are COMPLETELY OPEN. Why not have one of those races that

weekend? Or why not have the Cascade Chainbreaker April 24 or 25, instead of

on May 8, during the Columbia Plateau?

Sunday, May 23 has the Swan Island crit, big attendance most years, and the

Bear Spring MTB race. Why not move one of those to Saturday the 22nd? I'm

betting most mountain bikers were NOT in the team time trial on that

Saturday, though a few may have been. Not as many as were in the crit.

Saturday May 29 is open. But Sunday the 30th has both Pickett's Charge AND

the Rehearsal Road Race. Why not one on each day?

June 13 is both the Oakridge MTB races and the Road Race championships. June

is pretty full and I'm sure it's hard to add a race then, but July 3 and 4

has only the State Games track, which I think has very little overlap with

mountain biking. The following weekend, July 10 and 11, has the State Games

MTB race on top of the Cascade Classic.

July 25 has the Silverton crit (part of the omnium if you're racing it) and

the Firecracker (Oregon MTB championships). The following Saturday, July 31,

only has a TANDEM STAGE RACE. Why not have the Firecracker then? Or August

7, which only has Junior Track? Silverton RR and crit have lots of mountain

bikers attending.

I know not all these schedule conflicts can be resolved. And I'm sure it's

hard to get the venue when you want it. But I'm sure a few of these schedule

overlaps could be fixed easily, especially when there are open dates or

weekends. As someone who races both road and mountain bikes, I know there

are many mountain bikers who don't race as much as they'd like simply

because there's a road race on the same day. But in my opinion schedule, way

more than number of categories, is the limiting factor in racer attendance.

A little accommodation goes a long way. I for one would Saturday and Sunday

races, and I've talked with many others who would, too. When you have to

choose between road and mountain bike races on the same day, we all lose.

Craig Austin

-----Original Message-----

From: Shane Fletcher [mailto:shane_f-@comcast.net]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:23 PM

To: obra

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

The fact that cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants attests to the

fact that the categories that are used work. So to me a slight adjustment to

those categories for the mountain bike races would still give everyone a

chance to be competitive and significantly reduce the number of categories.

Doing that it might look something like this.

Cat A = Pro/Elite

Cat B = Expert

Cat C = Sport

Masters A 30+ = 35-44

Masters B 30+ = 45-54

Masters 50+ = 55+

Single speed = Single speed

Juniors = 15 -18 male

under 18 female

Kiddies = 14 and under

Women A = Pro/Expert

Women B = Sport

Beginner = Beginners categories for both male and female.

----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>; "'Petr Kakes'" <Skibowlb-@aol.com>;

"Sally R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up

the attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing

that caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of

riders that do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework

the category system and make it simpler for the race organizers by

consolidating some of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number. What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

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Terry Keele

2004-10-08

The question was "what would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race."

So, I'll answer what would make "me" do more races.

I bought an MTB license and fully intended to participate, but I didn't

for the following reasons.

1. On the race flyers I looked at, the entry fee was about twice as

much as a road race.

2. The "day-of-race" fee seemed to be punitive; sometimes $10 or so.

Therefore, if something cleared up on my schedule, I couldn't just drop

in on a race without paying the extra $10.

I agree with Dan H, twice as much and twice as far. The categories

didn't have anything to do with it for me because I didn't plan on being

competitive.

Contrast that with cross. The entry fee is about as much as a road race

and pre register and day-of-race, same price. The ordinary drive time

is 15-20 minutes.

A couple of times, I looked at the schedule and said "hmm, there's a mtb

race this weekend. Let's see $35 race fee + $10 late fee + 1/2 tank of

gas = $60. Naw, I think the wife out and do what ever she tells me to.

So, what would make me do more than one race? A $20 day-of-race entry

fee and I'd do 5 or so races.

cmur-@obra.org wrote:

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up

the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders

that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some

of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number.

What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

Tim M.

2004-10-08

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Rich Cowan wrote: "something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and 30-39"....

This is a reasonable suggestion. The 30- 39 year olds are kicking the butt 19-29's. If I remember right,

the winning sport vet had 10 minutes on the winning sport senior at mudslinger........10 minutes.

Sport seniors are suppose to be faster that sport vets...right? Vets are less likely to move up a class

because they are less focused on laddering up. But the senior sport racers would benefit racing fast vets

like Jon Wilson. So, combining the class would be a benefit to the senior sport racers.

But, would it really help promoters?

Tim

----- Original Message -----

From: Cowan-@aol.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 7:22 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different categories?

I agree with Candi that there are too many categories. If it's a smaller race there may be less than 10 riders in your respective category. I'm not sure what the best way to consolidate the categories is, but maybe something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and 30-39. Then maybe 40+, instead of 40-49 and 50+. That would get rid of some categories and make the races more competitive.

rich

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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<DIV>Rich Cowan wrote: "something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and

30-39"....</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>This is a reasonable suggestion. The 30- 39 year olds are kicking the butt

19-29's. If I remember right, </DIV>

<DIV>the winning sport vet had 10 minutes on the winning sport senior

at mudslinger........10 minutes. </DIV>

<DIV>Sport seniors are suppose to be faster that sport vets...right? Vets

are less likely to move up a class </DIV>

<DIV>because they are less focused on laddering up. But the senior sport racers

would benefit racing fast vets</DIV>

<DIV>like Jon Wilson. So, combining the class would be a benefit to the

senior sport racers.</DIV>

<DIV>But, would it really help promoters? </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Tim</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV

style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>

<A title=Co-@aol.com

href="mailto:Cowan-@aol.com">Cowan-@aol.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title-@topica.com

href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 07, 2004 7:22

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of

riders do they warrant 35 different categories?</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<DIV>I agree with Candi that there are too many categories. If it's a

smaller race there may be less than 10 riders in your respective

category. I'm not sure what the best way to consolidate the

categories is, but maybe something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and

30-39. Then maybe 40+, instead of 40-49 and 50+. That would

get rid of some categories and make the races more competitive.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>rich</DIV><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Shane Fletcher

2004-10-07

The fact that cyclocross can draw nearly 550 participants attests to the

fact that the categories that are used work. So to me a slight adjustment to

those categories for the mountain bike races would still give everyone a

chance to be competitive and significantly reduce the number of categories.

Doing that it might look something like this.

Cat A = Pro/Elite

Cat B = Expert

Cat C = Sport

Masters A 30+ = 35-44

Masters B 30+ = 45-54

Masters 50+ = 55+

Single speed = Single speed

Juniors = 15 -18 male

under 18 female

Kiddies = 14 and under

Women A = Pro/Expert

Women B = Sport

Beginner = Beginners categories for both male and female.

----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>; "'Petr Kakes'" <Skibowlb-@aol.com>;

"Sally R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders

that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some

of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number. What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Jay Martineau

2004-10-07

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Umm, 19-39 is not competitive! That's a huge range.

_____

From: Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 7:23 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I agree with Candi that there are too many categories. If it's a smaller

race there may be less than 10 riders in your respective category. I'm not

sure what the best way to consolidate the categories is, but maybe something

like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and 30-39. Then maybe 40+, instead of 40-49

and 50+. That would get rid of some categories and make the races more

competitive.

rich

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Umm, 19-39 is not competitive! That’s

a huge range.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2

face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>

Cowan-@aol.com [mailto:Cowan-@aol.com] <br>

<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October 07, 2004

7:23 PM<br>

<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ob-@topica.com<br>

<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike

# of riders do they warrant 35 different categories?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:

12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;

font-family:Arial'>I agree with Candi that there are too many categories.

If it's a smaller race there may be less than 10 riders in your respective

category. I'm not sure what the best way to consolidate the

categories is, but maybe something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and

30-39. Then maybe 40+, instead of 40-49 and 50+. That would

get rid of some categories and make the races more competitive.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;

font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;

font-family:Arial'>rich<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font

size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font

size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font

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Cowan-@aol.com

2004-10-07

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I agree with Candi that there are too many categories. If it's a smaller

race there may be less than 10 riders in your respective category. I'm not sure

what the best way to consolidate the categories is, but maybe something like

age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and 30-39. Then maybe 40+, instead of 40-49 and

50+. That would get rid of some categories and make the races more competitive.

rich

-------------------------------1097202163

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<BODY style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">

<DIV>I agree with Candi that there are too many categories. If it's a smaller race there may be less than 10 riders in your respective category. I'm not sure what the best way to consolidate the categories is, but maybe something like age 19-39 instead of 19-29 and 30-39. Then maybe 40+, instead of 40-49 and 50+. That would get rid of some categories and make the races more competitive.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>rich</DIV></BODY></HTML>

-------------------------------1097202163--

david baker

2004-10-07

Candi,

I think having three series instead of one is what may have caused less

overall attendance. It was nice for some of us core racers because we were

able to pick the series that had the most desirable races for the

individual. Had there been just one series I would have probably attended

more races, but it was kind of nice not to have to do so many races. So I

guess it is kind of a catch 22.

----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>; "'Petr Kakes'" <Skibowlb-@aol.com>;

"Sally R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders

that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some

of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number. What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Shane Young

2004-10-07

I am all for the reworking of the categories and classes in MTB... That

is no big secret though. I have worked the numbers from the different

races. Of the things that made the biggest difference in turnout this

year were... Being part of the Oregon Series, the Oregon series had 2 to

3 times the amount of racers than the other series. High School series

brought in a ton of junior these 5 races had on average 45 more juniors

than the other races. The third was races held before school was out

had more people races. The third reason could be a part of the second

but those races had more of a drop than just juniors.

The price of the race seem not to make that much of a difference since

the Cliff series had the cheapest price and relatively the poorest turn

out. Distance also didn't seem to be that much of a factor, since

Mudslinger (Corvallis), Spring Thaw (Ashland), and the Bend races had

someone of the largest turn outs.

I am sure that there are a lot of other factors of why races did or did

not due well, but these were just based off numbers...

-----Original Message-----

From: cmur-@obra.org [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

To: obra; 'Petr Kakes'; Sally R. Russenberger (home)

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up

the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders

that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some

of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number.

What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10 90

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Dan H

2004-10-07

Most of the MTB races cost twice as much as a road race and are at least

twice as far to get to. I don't mind driving a ways for a good course

though.

But honestly, I would race a lot more MTB races (I seem to get better

results than road) if it didn't take 2-3 weeks for my back to recover.

What would make me do more than 1 mtn bike race? New L4 & L5 discs!

----- Original Message -----

From: <cmur-@obra.org>

To: "obra" <ob-@topica.com>; "'Petr Kakes'" <Skibowlb-@aol.com>;

"Sally R. Russenberger (home)" <srussen-@bendbroadband.com>

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 5:06 PM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mtn bike # of riders do they warrant 35 different

categories?

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders

that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some

of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number. What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

cmur-@obra.org

2004-10-07

I just spend the day adding the BAR for the Mtn bike side. I added up the

attendance at all 17 cross country events in the state. One thing that

caught my eye was the limited number of riders and the volume of riders that

do only 1 event per year. I think that we need to rework the category

system and make it simpler for the race organizers by consolidating some of

the categories. We also need to find out how to increase our number. What

would make you do more than 1 mtn bike race.

Thoughts?

Candi Murray

Category Sex Age Grp Total 1 day only

Beg Men 50+ 11 10

Beg Men 40-49 39 26

Beg Women 40+ 13 8

Beg Men 19-29 38 28

Beg Women 30-39 13 10

Beg Women 19-29 14 10

Beg Men 30-39 44 35

Beg Jr Women15-18 8 3

Beg Jr WomenUnder 14 3 3

Beg Jr MenUnder 14 42 8

Beg Jr Men15-18 30 4

Elite Men 43 18

Exp Jr MenUnder 18 7 3

Exp Men 50+ 10 7

Exp Women 19-29 16 12

Exp Women 40+ 3 2

Exp Men 30-39 63 36

Exp Women 30-39 15 7

Exp Jr Women Under 18 1 1

Exp Men 40-49 49 29

Exp Men 19-29 31 22

Pro Men 22 12

Pro Women 10 4

Single Speed 44 29

Sp Men 40-49 56 34

Sport Women 30-39 13 8

Sport Men 50+ 22 14

Sport Jr MenUnder 14 8 5

Sport Jr MenUnder 18 21 8

Sport Jr Women 7 1

Sport women 40+ 9 5

Sport Men 19-29 70 55

Sport Women 19-29 18 14

Sport Men 30-30 89 52

total # 882 523