RE: post workout products

Michael O'Hair

2004-11-10



Massive vitamin comsumption can be dangerous. When the drug industry

introduced "good tasting" vitamin tablets for children, e.g., Flintstones,

in the sixties, kids were eating the stuff like, well, candy. Since they

were "vitamins," many parents didn't object. One of the results was

differing limb growth for some kids. Statistically insignificant? Maybe.

But the risk is real.



Do a google on Dirk Pearson. In 1982 he wrote a book on life extension

through ingesting massive amounts of vitamin C ( an ounce a day ),

antioxidants such as PABA and BHT, and other chemicals. About two years

later, the word came out that he had quit this regimen. The book is huge

and basically boring, but it is a look into a very strange world. Another

health fad was the Macrobiotic Diet. People died on this one, but some of

its boosters are still in business.



The key is moderation. I've been a competitive athlete for close to fifty

years and I have observed that runners and cyclists are among the worst of

food faddists. Endurance sports are hard and endurance athletes are always

looking for an edge. Don't let your search take you into the pseudo-science

realm.



eri-@fusium.com

2004-11-10



Hehe. http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001675.php



 The most important thing people are over looking here is that the best

post

workout product is BEER! And thank your creator that beer is void of

those

pestky supliments.



Dave



Dave German

2004-11-10



The most important thing people are over looking here is that the best post

workout product is BEER! And thank your creator that beer is void of those

pestky supliments.



Dave





 From: Ron Castia <ro-@realbicycles.com>

Reply-To: ro-@realbicycles.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] post workout products

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:23:03 +0000



A couple of things that folks seem to be forgetting:



1. Does the study take endurance athletes into consideration?

Not likely, these studies are done on and intended for the average

person. Cyclist, even mediocre ones, would rate in the top 10 percentile

when it comes to fitness.

Endurance athletes such as cyclist will burn off far more vitamins and

minerals during training bouts than they can even ingest or obsorb, so

even the suggestion of "moderation is the key" does not apply. If a

cyclist who is staying fit year round only takes in the RDA of vitamins

and minerals, he/she is substantially defecient.



2. If you talk about supplements and health risks, you can't use the

example of banned substances or performance enhancing supplements in the

same context that you use vitamins and minerals. Performance enhancing

supplements are not essential to good health, vitamins and minerals are.



Ron

EMC/Team Real



J.Michael Manning wrote:

 















Well...here we go! First of all you miss my point. Moderation is the

key. Secondly, I should rephrase the statement I made regarding whether

you have heard of anyone dying of "any kind" of supplement overdose. It

seems apparent, to me at least, that you are using that key phrase to

support your argument. If anyone else would like to do the google search



you suggested, they will find the following: Ken Caminiti was an

admitted steroid user, Kory Stringer died from heat exhaustion and had

lost an enormous amount of weight in a short period of time (and was

still obese), and Steve Bechler was also overweight and out of shape

when he died of heat exhaustion while overdosing on ephedra. Tom Simpson



also died of heat exhaustion and the autopsy found both amphetamines and



methylamphetamine in his blood. Now, how does any of that compare to the



normal ingestion of food supplements? And I do exclude stimulants and

androgenic agents from that list of food supplements. Am I practicing

medicine? Not hardly. Just using my head, as I suggest you do.

J.Michael Manning

Performance Fitness Training wrote:

 

 From: "J.Michael Manning"

Do you know of anyone who has ever died or even been hospitalized for

an

   

overdose of any kind of supplement?...The real culprit, particularly

in

   heart related conditions, is poor dietary habits and lack of

meaningful

   activity.

Wrong!?Ever heard of Ken Caminiti(MLB)??He's dead.? Kory

Stringer(NFL)?

  He's Dead. Steve Bechler(MLB)??He's dead. Tom Gugliotta(NBA)? He

nearly

  died. Oh, and?"Mr. Tom" Simpson did a little supplementing before he

collapsed and?died?in TdF.? Countless less noteable college and high

school athletes have died just in the past year?from ailments

attributed

  

to?unregulated nutritional supplements.? The truth is that

"nutritional

  supplements" encompass ANYTHING that might be ingested in a form other

than that naturally occurring in food.?

?Do a google search on "athlete deaths, supplements" and you'll find a

number of articles on athletes from high school to NFL, MLB and Pro

Cycling who are engaging in "meaningful activity", that are dying from

kidney and heart failure at an alarming rate.?

If you don't know EXACTLY what's in the product you should skip it.?

(Old coaching adage "when in doubt, cut it out" works here)??

BH.

Performance Fitness Training Impro-@hotmail.com

?







Technology is the future.



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Ron Castia

2004-11-10



A couple of things that folks seem to be forgetting:



1. Does the study take endurance athletes into consideration?

Not likely, these studies are done on and intended for the average

person. Cyclist, even mediocre ones, would rate in the top 10 percentile

when it comes to fitness.

Endurance athletes such as cyclist will burn off far more vitamins and

minerals during training bouts than they can even ingest or obsorb, so

even the suggestion of "moderation is the key" does not apply. If a

cyclist who is staying fit year round only takes in the RDA of vitamins

and minerals, he/she is substantially defecient.



2. If you talk about supplements and health risks, you can't use the

example of banned substances or performance enhancing supplements in the

same context that you use vitamins and minerals. Performance enhancing

supplements are not essential to good health, vitamins and minerals are.



Ron

EMC/Team Real



J.Michael Manning wrote:

 















Well...here we go! First of all you miss my point. Moderation is the

key. Secondly, I should rephrase the statement I made regarding whether

you have heard of anyone dying of "any kind" of supplement overdose. It

seems apparent, to me at least, that you are using that key phrase to

support your argument. If anyone else would like to do the google search



you suggested, they will find the following: Ken Caminiti was an

admitted steroid user, Kory Stringer died from heat exhaustion and had

lost an enormous amount of weight in a short period of time (and was

still obese), and Steve Bechler was also overweight and out of shape

when he died of heat exhaustion while overdosing on ephedra. Tom Simpson



also died of heat exhaustion and the autopsy found both amphetamines and



methylamphetamine in his blood. Now, how does any of that compare to the



normal ingestion of food supplements? And I do exclude stimulants and

androgenic agents from that list of food supplements. Am I practicing

medicine? Not hardly. Just using my head, as I suggest you do.

J.Michael Manning

Performance Fitness Training wrote:

 

 From: "J.Michael Manning"

Do you know of anyone who has ever died or even been hospitalized for an



overdose of any kind of supplement?...The real culprit, particularly in

heart related conditions, is poor dietary habits and lack of meaningful

activity.

Wrong!?Ever heard of Ken Caminiti(MLB)??He's dead.? Kory Stringer(NFL)?

He's Dead. Steve Bechler(MLB)??He's dead. Tom Gugliotta(NBA)? He nearly

died. Oh, and?"Mr. Tom" Simpson did a little supplementing before he

collapsed and?died?in TdF.? Countless less noteable college and high

school athletes have died just in the past year?from ailments attributed



to?unregulated nutritional supplements.? The truth is that "nutritional

supplements" encompass ANYTHING that might be ingested in a form other

than that naturally occurring in food.?

?Do a google search on "athlete deaths, supplements" and you'll find a

number of articles on athletes from high school to NFL, MLB and Pro

Cycling who are engaging in "meaningful activity", that are dying from

kidney and heart failure at an alarming rate.?

If you don't know EXACTLY what's in the product you should skip it.?

(Old coaching adage "when in doubt, cut it out" works here)??

BH.

Performance Fitness Training Impro-@hotmail.com

?







Technology is the future.



Brian

2004-11-10



This is a multi-part message in MIME format.



------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C4C714.3A611210

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



My 2 cents,







For a definitive answer I recommend you discuss this subject with your

Doctor and your Pharmacist.







Brian













------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C4C714.3A611210

Content-Type: text/html;

charset="us-ascii"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



<html>



<head>

<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">





<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">



<style>

<!--

/* Font Definitions */

@font-face

{font-family:Tahoma;

panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}

/* Style Definitions */

p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal

{margin:0in;

margin-bottom:.0001pt;

font-size:12.0pt;

font-family:"Times New Roman";}

a:link, span.MsoHyperlink

{color:blue;

text-decoration:underline;}

a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed

{color:purple;

text-decoration:underline;}

p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig

{margin:0in;

margin-bottom:.0001pt;

font-size:12.0pt;

font-family:"Times New Roman";}

tt

{font-family:"Courier New";}

span.EmailStyle18

{font-family:Tahoma;

color:navy;}

@page Section1

{size:8.5in 11.0in;

margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}

div.Section1

{page:Section1;}

-->

</style>



</head>



<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>



<div class=Section1>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:

12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy'>My 2 cents,</span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:

12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy'> </span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:

12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy'>For a definitive answer I recommend you

discuss this subject with your Doctor and your Pharmacist.</span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:

12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy'> </span></font></p>



<div>



<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:

12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy'>Brian</span></font></p>



</div>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:

12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy'> </span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span

style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>



</div>



</body>



</html>



------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C4C714.3A611210--



J.Michael Manning

2004-11-10

















Well...here we go! First of all you miss my point. Moderation is the

key. Secondly, I should rephrase the statement I made regarding whether

you have heard of anyone dying of "any kind" of supplement overdose. It

seems apparent, to me at least, that you are using that key phrase to

support your argument. If anyone else would like to do the google search

you suggested, they will find the following: Ken Caminiti was an

admitted steroid user, Kory Stringer died from heat exhaustion and had

lost an enormous amount of weight in a short period of time (and was

still obese), and Steve Bechler was also overweight and out of shape

when he died of heat exhaustion while overdosing on ephedra. Tom Simpson

also died of heat exhaustion and the autopsy found both amphetamines and

methylamphetamine in his blood. Now, how does any of that compare to the

normal ingestion of food supplements? And I do exclude stimulants and

androgenic agents from that list of food supplements. Am I practicing

medicine? Not hardly. Just using my head, as I suggest you do.

J.Michael Manning

Performance Fitness Training wrote:

 

 From: "J.Michael Manning"

Do you know of anyone who has ever died or even been hospitalized for an

overdose of any kind of supplement?...The real culprit, particularly in

heart related conditions, is poor dietary habits and lack of meaningful

activity.

Wrong!?Ever heard of Ken Caminiti(MLB)??He's dead.? Kory Stringer(NFL)?

He's Dead. Steve Bechler(MLB)??He's dead. Tom Gugliotta(NBA)? He nearly

died. Oh, and?"Mr. Tom" Simpson did a little supplementing before he

collapsed and?died?in TdF.? Countless less noteable college and high

school athletes have died just in the past year?from ailments attributed

to?unregulated nutritional supplements.? The truth is that "nutritional

supplements" encompass ANYTHING that might be ingested in a form other

than that naturally occurring in food.?

?Do a google search on "athlete deaths, supplements" and you'll find a

number of articles on athletes from high school to NFL, MLB and Pro

Cycling who are engaging in "meaningful activity", that are dying from

kidney and heart failure at an alarming rate.?

If you don't know EXACTLY what's in the product you should skip it.?

(Old coaching adage "when in doubt, cut it out" works here)??

BH.

Performance Fitness Training Impro-@hotmail.com

?







Technology is the future.



Troy Tucker

2004-11-10





--Apple-Mail-45--604569747

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset=ISO-8859-1;

format=flowed



What's the difference between supplements and illegal drugs. If I'm not

mistaken none of the people mentioned below died from an overdose of

vitamin E.

If so that means no more Flintstones for me.

Troy



On Nov 10, 2004, at 9:17 AM, Performance Fitness Training wrote:



  From: "J.Michael Manning"



 Do you know of anyone who has ever died or even been hospitalized

for an overdose of any kind of supplement?...The real culprit,

particularly in heart related conditions, is poor dietary habits and

lack of meaningful activity.



Wrong!?Ever heard of Ken Caminiti(MLB)??He's dead.? Kory

Stringer(NFL)? He's Dead. Steve Bechler(MLB)??He's dead. Tom

Gugliotta(NBA)? He nearly died. Oh, and?"Mr. Tom" Simpson did a little

supplementing before he collapsed and?died?in TdF.? Countless less

noteable college and high school athletes have died just in the past

year?from ailments attributed to?unregulated nutritional supplements.?

The truth is that "nutritional supplements" encompass ANYTHING that

might be ingested in a form other than that naturally occurring in

food.?



?Do a google search on "athlete deaths, supplements" and you'll find

a number of articles on athletes from high school to NFL, MLB and Pro

Cycling who are engaging in "meaningful activity", that are dying from

kidney and heart failure at an alarming rate.?



If you don't know EXACTLY what's in the product you should skip it.?

(Old coaching adage "when in doubt, cut it out" works here)??



BH.

Performance Fitness Training

Impro-@hotmail.com



?

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

--^----------------------------------------------------------------

This email was sent to: bike-@earthlink.net



EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here:

http://topica.com/help/unsub.html.YmlrZXRy

Or send an email to: obra-uns-@topica.com



For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit:

http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER

--^----------------------------------------------------------------



--Apple-Mail-45--604569747

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Content-Type: text/enriched;

charset=ISO-8859-1



What's the difference between supplements and illegal drugs. If I'm

not mistaken none of the people mentioned below died from an overdose

of vitamin E.



If so that means no more Flintstones for me.



Troy





On Nov 10, 2004, at 9:17 AM, Performance Fitness Training wrote:





<excerpt>>From: "J.Michael Manning"





 Do you know of anyone who has ever died or even been hospitalized

for an overdose of any kind of supplement?...The real culprit,

particularly in heart related conditions, is poor dietary habits and

lack of meaningful activity.





Wrong!=A0Ever heard of Ken Caminiti(MLB)?=A0He's dead.=A0 Kory

Stringer(NFL)? He's Dead. Steve Bechler(MLB)?=A0He's dead. Tom

Gugliotta(NBA)? He nearly died. Oh, and=A0"Mr. Tom" Simpson did a little

supplementing before he collapsed and=A0died=A0in TdF.=A0 Countless less

noteable college and high school athletes have died just in the past

year=A0from ailments attributed to=A0unregulated nutritional =

supplements.=A0

The truth is that "nutritional supplements" encompass ANYTHING that

might be ingested in a form other than that naturally occurring in

food.=A0





=A0Do a google search on "athlete deaths, supplements" and you'll find

a number of articles on athletes from high school to NFL, MLB and Pro

Cycling who are engaging in "meaningful activity", that are dying from

kidney and heart failure at an alarming rate.=A0





If you don't know EXACTLY what's in the product you should skip it.=A0

(Old coaching adage "when in doubt, cut it out" works here)=A0=A0=20





BH.



Performance Fitness Training=20



Impro-@hotmail.com





=A0



<fixed>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</fixed>



=

 


</excerpt>=



--Apple-Mail-45--604569747--



jo-@aracnet.com

2004-11-10



Performance Fitness Training <impro-@hotmail.com> wrote :



  From: "J.Michael Manning"

Do you know of anyone who has ever died or even been hospitalized for an overdose of any kind of supplement?...The real culprit, particularly in heart related conditions, is poor dietary habits and lack of meaningful activity.

Wrong! Ever heard of Ken Caminiti(MLB)? He's dead.



Yeah... from Cocaine and Steroids!



  Kory Stringer(NFL)? He's Dead.



Yeah... from heat exhaustion/Sun Stroke!



Steve Bechler(MLB)? He's dead.



yeah... due to a banned substance called ephedrine...



Tom Gugliotta(NBA)? He nearly died.



okay.. what did 'Googs' nearly die from? A Google turns up nothing about his near immient demise.



Oh, and "Mr. Tom" Simpson did a little supplementing before he collapsed and died in TdF. 

yes... I understand banned substances will do that to you...



Before posting the alarmist... and responding in kind... due some due dilligence and research... please. It aint that hard.



Performance Fitness Training

2004-11-10



<html><div style='background-color:'><P>>From: "J.Michael Manning" </P>

<P>>Do you know of anyone who has ever died or even been hospitalized for an overdose of any kind of supplement?...The real culprit, particularly in heart related conditions, is poor dietary habits and lack of meaningful activity. </P>

<P>Wrong! Ever heard of Ken Caminiti(MLB)? He's dead.  Kory Stringer(NFL)? He's Dead. Steve Bechler(MLB)? He's dead. Tom Gugliotta(NBA)? He nearly died. Oh, and "Mr. Tom" Simpson did a little supplementing before he collapsed and died in TdF.  Countless less noteable college and high school athletes have died just in the past year from ailments attributed to unregulated nutritional supplements.  The truth is that "nutritional supplements" encompass ANYTHING that might be ingested in a form other than that naturally occurring in food.  </P>

<P> Do a google search on "athlete deaths, supplements" and you'll find a number of articles on athletes from high school to NFL, MLB and Pro Cycling who are engaging in "meaningful activity", that are dying from kidney and heart failure at an alarming rate.  </P>

<P>If you don't know EXACTLY what's in the product you should skip it.  (Old coaching adage "when in doubt, cut it out" works here)   <BR></P>

<P>BH.</P>

<DIV>Performance Fitness Training <BR>Impro-@hotmail.com <BR></DIV>

<P> </P></div></html>