OBRA: OBRA Chat: Oregon "luxury tax" on bike...

Steve Brown

2005-04-01

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All,

Sincere apology if my e-mail earlier today was in any was mistaken. What

I really should have said was that this topic sounds very dangerous, from

what I have read so far. Just urging everyone to be careful.

--

Steve Brown

Steve Brown Company Inc.

6435 S.W. Parkhill Drive

Portland, Oregon 97239

503.293.1683 p

503.293.6009 f

503.781.3631 c

sbr-@stevebrowncompany.com

on 3/31/05 1:07 PM, Curt Dewees at cur-@rivercitybicycles.com wrote:

Just got this message today (below). I don't know anything about this, but

thought I would pass it on to OBRA-ites.

Curt Dewees

-----------------------------------------------------

Below are the email addresses of the state representatives responsible for

this proposed "luxury" tax. I sincerely believe that an email is worth the

time so that we can stop this insanity.

Greg Pressler

CitySports NW Magazine

ph. 503-525-0400

rep.br-@state.or.us

rep.chip-@state.or.us

rep.diane-@state.or.us

rep.mar-@state.or.us

rep.ste-@state.or.us

rep.pau-@state.or.us

rep.jackie-@state.or.us

rep.pete-@state.or.us

rep.ter-@state.or.us

rep.caro-@state.or.us

----- Original Message -----

From: <RogerL-@Freightliner.com>

To: <rwlel-@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:54 AM

Subject: Proposed Oregon Luxury Tax

Hello Bicycle enthusiast and industry member:

Have you heard about the new bill in our state's legislature?

You'll be very interested in Section 1, Item M " Sports equipment with a

purchase price of $500 or more per item."

and Section 2, Item 3: " The tax liability imposed on the consumer by this

section is considered paid at the

time the consumer pays to the retailer the purchase price and tax on the

luxury item."

They are going to try to tax luxury items, such as sporting goods equipment

over $500, AND require

the business' such as bike shops to collect the tax for the state, which

makes that company become an unpaid

tax collector for the state, adding costs to their operation, which in the

long run could cause the price

of the products they sell to increase.

I think this is something all bikes shops in the state would be interested

in knowing.

The .pdf file is attached.

Roger W. Louton

503-745-6163

#################################

<<hb3254.intro.pdf>>

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<TITLE>Re: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???</TITLE>

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All, 

 

 Sincere apology if my e-mail earlier today was in any was mistaken. What I really should have said was that this topic sounds very dangerous, from what I have read so far. Just urging everyone to be careful. 

 

 

 

-- 

Steve Brown 

Steve Brown Company Inc. 

6435 S.W. Parkhill Drive 

Portland, Oregon 97239 

503.293.1683 p 

503.293.6009 f 

503.781.3631 c 

sbr-@stevebrowncompany.com 

 

 

 

 

on 3/31/05 1:07 PM, Curt Dewees at cur-@rivercitybicycles.com wrote: 

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>Just got this message today (below). I don't know anything about this, but thought I would pass it on to OBRA-ites. 

 

Curt Dewees 

----------------------------------------------------- 

 

Below are the email addresses of the state representatives responsible for this proposed "luxury" tax. I sincerely believe that an email is worth the time so that we can stop this insanity. 

 

Greg Pressler 

CitySports NW Magazine 

ph. 503-525-0400 

 

rep.br-@state.or.us 

rep.chip-@state.or.us 

rep.diane-@state.or.us 

rep.mar-@state.or.us 

rep.ste-@state.or.us 

rep.pau-@state.or.us 

rep.jackie-@state.or.us 

rep.pete-@state.or.us 

rep.ter-@state.or.us 

rep.caro-@state.or.us 

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <RogerL-@Freightliner.com> 

To: <rwlel-@gmail.com> 

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:54 AM 

Subject: Proposed Oregon Luxury Tax 

 

Hello Bicycle enthusiast and industry member: 

 

Have you heard about the new bill in our state's legislature? 

You'll be very interested in Section 1, Item M " Sports equipment with a 

purchase price of $500 or more per item." 

and Section 2, Item 3: " The tax liability imposed on the consumer by this 

section is considered paid at the 

time the consumer pays to the retailer the purchase price and tax on the 

luxury item." 

 

They are going to try to tax luxury items, such as sporting goods equipment 

over $500, AND require 

the business' such as bike shops to collect the tax for the state, which 

makes that company become an unpaid 

tax collector for the state, adding costs to their operation, which in the 

long run could cause the price 

of the products they sell to increase. 

 

I think this is something all bikes shops in the state would be interested 

in knowing. 

 

The .pdf file is attached. 

 

Roger W. Louton 

 503-745-6163 

################################# 

 

 

 <<hb3254.intro.pdf>>

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. 

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org 

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Duncan Calver

2005-04-01

Well, I don't want Salem telling me how to spend my money, but I have to

admit I've overdrafted my checking account more than once, so I'd say the

folks who are payed to know how to allocate taxes probably would probably do

a better job than me of managing my money; I have no idea how to allocate

tax revenue across the board of social programs that we all need. They will

always be taking our hard earned money, true, so I guess the catch is to

elect officials you hope will know how to spend the tax properly. Wether or

not this luxury tax goes to good social programs is really my only

concern...

From: "Collis, Randall (EUGENE OE 322)" <randall-@ml.com>

Reply-To: randall-@ml.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:24:20 -0500

The reality is the government will always be looking for a way to take your

hard earned money. If they (elected officials) did not have to run for

reelection you had better believe there would be confiscatory taxes at all

levels of government. Who is a better manager of your dollars? You or

Salem?

-----Original Message-----

From: Duncan Calver [mailto:duncan-@msn.com]

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:16 PM

To: gmit-@yahoo.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

So maybe the arbitrary $500 price is silly, and so is the idea of

specifically taxing something that benefits people. I guess the state is

just desperate for cash and thought they'd take advantage of the recent

upsurge in bike sales? Yet, in principle I'm still for taxes on expensive

stuff. Unless the Sheriff of Nottingham walks through my door and demands

all I own for no good reason...

From: galen mittermann <gmit-@yahoo.com>

Reply-To: gmit-@yahoo.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:10:24 +0000

OK

Some bikes are luxury. Certainly a fancy race bike is. But is a bike

over $500 the equivalent luxury of a car over $40k? I'd equate a $500

bike with a $5k car, myself. Is a $450 fishing rod not a luxury item? Is

a $501 bike (acera level stuff with maybe a rack and fenders and a

generator) a luxury or just reliable transportation? How about a $499

frame, then a $499 crankset, two $499 set of components, etc... .

I don't mind reasonable taxes, but I mind arbitrary ones.

It strikes me as funny to impose a tax on anything that facilitates

physical activity in a nation of obese couch potatoes. How about a

luxury tax on fast food? A 'sin' tax on chip and soda? A medicare tax on

french fries so I don't have to help pay for somebody's lifetime of

irresponsible eating habits in medical bills? Heck, with the money we

save the system by staying healthy, we should all get credit for riding

our bikes.

Just my 2 cents.

Duncan Calver wrote:

One more about this thread.

My $3800 Litespeed is by no way a means of regular transportation

(if I

parked it outside PSU, it could be stolen in less time than my

Ksyriums

save

me on a long climb), it was bought and designed to race - a race that

I

had

to pay to enter, pay to eat extra, pay to wear special technical

clothing,

team dues, gas for travel, etc. etc...I know folks who have gone into

debt

on account of bike racing.

Let's face it guys. A commuter bike can easily be made for under

$500.

Anything more than that IS a luxury item intended specifically for

those

of us wealthy/frugal enough to participate in this extraordinarily

expensive

sport. Have any of you seen the pictures of elite amateurs/pros in

North

Africa or other "third world" areas? They still ride with downtube

shifters

and other parts that would get laughed off the course at an OBRA

event.

Most of us perch upon bikes very similar to the ones pros ride.

LUXURY

Every time a new tax comes around, people bitch and moan. Get

over

it.

    Our schools are falling apart, roads are crumbling, jails are

   overcrowded.

   I don't care where they tax me personally, so long as it goes

somewhere

other than our nuclear arsenal. If we've got the extra cash to worry

about

the rotational weight vs. aero properties on our new Zipp 909's, we've

got a

case of luxuryitis.

So maybe it's because I'm from Canada, where we get taxed almost

20% on

sales (and actually see that money spent properly), that leads me in

this

direction, but for lack of a better phrase:

TAX ME just don't KILL ME

sorry for the rant-this was not directed at anyone specifically

Duncan

From: Thomas Hoffman <t.hoff-@verizon.net>

Reply-To: t.hoff-@verizon.net

To: jonath-@yahoo.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:51:14 -0800

" Bikes are not luxury items, they are transportation."

I am not trying to single you out Jonathon, but We need a better

argument

than this. Some of us would like to think our bikes are

transportation,

but

in reality, they are toys. Just like $300 softball bats. There are

those

of

us that use bikes solely as transportation. But I doubt that those

Kilo,

and

TT bikes qualify as transportation.

Bottom line is, as a community we need to make sure we have safe

streets,

good schools and neighborhoods, and we must be willing to pay for it.

But

that is a whole different user group. Our legislature is not

professional;

it is made up of guys like us, if you write them offer solutions, as

well

as

criticism of the goofy ideas.

But we need to get a grip, my $3600 Orbea is a luxury, not

transportation.

That's what Cross bikes are for.

Tom Hoffman

_____

From: Jonathan Maus [mailto:jonath-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:57 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

The whole idea of this tax (at least from what I know so far) is

completely

irrational and absurd. Bikes are not luxury items, they are

transportation.

Not to mention that we're dying for oil everyday and obesity is an

epidemic...so why would they do anything to discourage cycling?

Obviously

there's some anti-biking group behind this or it is just an oversight

and

will never pass.

I've already emailed my Chip Shields, my state representative in

Salem

(I

met him at our neighborhood meeting last night).

On 3/31/2005 2:45:52 PM, moh-@easystreet.com wrote:

History has shown that the government can and will coerce

businesses

into

acting as tax collectors. That

isn't the problem. The problem is twofold. First, at what point

does

a

bicycle become a "luxury" item as opposed to a transportation device?

Second, the selected price point of $500 is completely arbitrary. I

would

consider a $300 softball bat to be a luxury item. It would be

interesting

to

know if firearms, specifically rifles and shotguns, are classified as

"sporting equipment."

Someone in Salem is probably going to form a committee to deal

with

the

"special interest groups" that will be howling over this bill.

Hello Bicycle enthusiast and industry member:

Have you heard about the new bill in our state's

legislature?

You'll be very interested in Section 1, Item M " Sports equipment

with a

purchase price of $500 or more per item."

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond

to

the

list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com

This email was sent to: t.hoff-@verizon.net

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Disclaimer:

All opions expressed are my own and only my own, and do not reflect the

opions or stand of my teammates, my team's sponsors, my employer, my

relatives, my girlfreind, my former college drinking buddies, or anyone

else with whom I have ever had an association, so gripes are to be

directed at myself and only at myself.

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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Pollock, EuanX A

2005-04-01

I might be missing the point here - but if they imposed a tax on say

$500+ bikes/frames/components etc. surely the ones that would really

suffer are the local retailers - online and out of state retailers would

benefit. If the tax was going to make that much of an impact I would

rather wait a day on the UPS van delivering it!

Local business of all types should be opposed to such a tax. - Although

the tax on junk food is a brilliant idea make it about 120%!!

Euan Pollock

Consultant

Currie & Brown Inc.

5285 N.E. Elam Young Parkway, Suite A300

Hillsboro, OR 97124

P: 971-214-7402

F: 503-613-4370

www.currieb-usa.com

This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or privileged

information. If you believe you have received this message in error,

please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message

without copying or disclosing the contents. Thank you. Currie & Brown,

Inc.

-----Original Message-----

From: Peter Murphy [mailto:murphy_-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:20 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

They can tax my bike as soon as they make owners of SUVs, Excursions,

Hummers (currently SUVs and vehicles over 6000lbs don't have to pay) or

any

vehicle that costs more than $24,000 pay a luxury tax. You can just as

easily get around town in a Kia or a compact Toyota P/U.

Pete Murphy

From: Duncan Calver <duncan-@msn.com>

Reply-To: duncan-@msn.com

To: t.hoff-@verizon.net, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:28:00 -0800

One more about this thread.

My $3800 Litespeed is by no way a means of regular transportation

(if

I parked it outside PSU, it could be stolen in less time than my

Ksyriums

save me on a long climb), it was bought and designed to race - a race

that

I had to pay to enter, pay to eat extra, pay to wear special technical

clothing, team dues, gas for travel, etc. etc...I know folks who have

gone

into debt on account of bike racing.

Let's face it guys. A commuter bike can easily be made for under

$500. Anything more than that IS a luxury item intended specifically

for

those of us wealthy/frugal enough to participate in this

extraordinarily

expensive sport. Have any of you seen the pictures of elite

amateurs/pros

in North Africa or other "third world" areas? They still ride with

downtube shifters and other parts that would get laughed off the course

at

an OBRA event. Most of us perch upon bikes very similar to the ones

pros

ride. LUXURY

Every time a new tax comes around, people bitch and moan. Get

over

it. Our schools are falling apart, roads are crumbling, jails are

overcrowded. I don't care where they tax me personally, so long as it

goes

somewhere other than our nuclear arsenal. If we've got the extra cash

to

worry about the rotational weight vs. aero properties on our new Zipp

909's, we've got a case of luxuryitis.

So maybe it's because I'm from Canada, where we get taxed almost

20%

on sales (and actually see that money spent properly), that leads me in

this direction, but for lack of a better phrase:

TAX ME just don't KILL ME

sorry for the rant-this was not directed at anyone specifically

Duncan

From: Thomas Hoffman <t.hoff-@verizon.net>

Reply-To: t.hoff-@verizon.net

To: jonath-@yahoo.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:51:14 -0800

" Bikes are not luxury items, they are transportation."

I am not trying to single you out Jonathon, but We need a better

argument

than this. Some of us would like to think our bikes are

transportation,

but

in reality, they are toys. Just like $300 softball bats. There are

those

of

us that use bikes solely as transportation. But I doubt that those

Kilo,

and

TT bikes qualify as transportation.

Bottom line is, as a community we need to make sure we have safe

streets,

good schools and neighborhoods, and we must be willing to pay for it.

But

that is a whole different user group. Our legislature is not

professional;

it is made up of guys like us, if you write them offer solutions, as

well

as

criticism of the goofy ideas.

But we need to get a grip, my $3600 Orbea is a luxury, not

transportation.

That's what Cross bikes are for.

Tom Hoffman

_____

From: Jonathan Maus [mailto:jonath-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:57 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

The whole idea of this tax (at least from what I know so far) is

completely

irrational and absurd. Bikes are not luxury items, they are

transportation.

Not to mention that we're dying for oil everyday and obesity is an

epidemic...so why would they do anything to discourage cycling?

Obviously

there's some anti-biking group behind this or it is just an oversight

and

will never pass.

I've already emailed my Chip Shields, my state representative in Salem

(I

met him at our neighborhood meeting last night).

On 3/31/2005 2:45:52 PM, moh-@easystreet.com wrote:

History has shown that the government can and will coerce

businesses

into

acting as tax collectors. That

isn't the problem. The problem is twofold. First, at what point

does a

bicycle become a "luxury" item as opposed to a transportation device?

Second, the selected price point of $500 is completely arbitrary. I

would

consider a $300 softball bat to be a luxury item. It would be

interesting

to

know if firearms, specifically rifles and shotguns, are classified as

"sporting equipment."

Someone in Salem is probably going to form a committee to deal with

the

"special interest groups" that will be howling over this bill.

Hello Bicycle enthusiast and industry member:

Have you heard about the new bill in our state's

legislature?

You'll be very interested in Section 1, Item M " Sports equipment

with

a

purchase price of $500 or more per item."

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond

to

the

list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com

This email was sent to: t.hoff-@verizon.net

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here:

http://topica.com/help/unsub.html.dC5ob2Zm

Or send an email to: obra-uns-@topica.com

For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit:

http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER

--^^---------------------------------------------------------------

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Eric Kytola

2005-04-01

doesn't the ability to pay for luxury items come from a higher than normal income? GENERALLY

maybe they should just tax higher incomes.......more....

-----Original Message-----

From: galen mittermann [mailto:gmit-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:25 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

"tax the rich, feed the poor

till there are no rich no more"

~ ten years after

im all for taxing silly expensive stuff too. luxury taxes are fine by

me. if i buy a fancy car, ATV, or other toy, just because i can, then

fine, ill pony up. but there has to be some other reasonable way to

evaluate bikes, and indeed, all sporting goods. $500 is just too

arbitrary.

im serious about the junk food tax, too, i think that would rock.

Duncan Calver wrote:

So maybe the arbitrary $500 price is silly, and so is the idea of

specifically taxing something that benefits people. I guess the state

is

just desperate for cash and thought they'd take advantage of the recent

upsurge in bike sales? Yet, in principle I'm still for taxes on

expensive

stuff. Unless the Sheriff of Nottingham walks through my door and

demands

all I own for no good reason...

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Susan Otcenas

2005-04-01

Galen,

Good email. Please send it to your state representative.

Here's what my partner sent to ours (on-topic bicycling content in points

3,5,6,7 and 8) :

I am writing to register my opposition to House Bill 3254, the proposed

luxury tax.

First, I oppose the bill on the general principle that it is essentially a

"back door" to a sales tax, and Oregon voters have repeatedly rejected the

idea of a sales tax.

Second, these kinds of taxes are very "messy" and arbitrary. If you need to

raise additional tax revenues, I would much rather see an increase in the

overall tax rate instead of the proliferation of piecemeal taxes.

Third, luxury taxes lead to all sorts of confusion about what is a "luxury"

and what is not. For instance, why is a $4999 piece of artwork NOT a

luxury, while a $501 bicycle IS a luxury?

Fourth, as a business owner in Oregon I oppose the proposed luxury tax

because it would place undue burden on Oregon retailers, both from a

paperwork and from a lost sales standpoint.

Fifth, as a proponent of free-market economics, I oppose this tax because it

distorts the market. A $X item would not be taxed, while a $X+1 item would

be taxed, so it will create a "price gap" where no one is willing to

purchase the items priced a certain amount above $X. This limits a

retailer's ability to price items in accordance with market economics.

Sixth, this tax could even result in reduced choice and selection for

consumers, since a $525 sporting good item may no longer be at a viable

price point once the tax has been added on, and the reduced demand for the

product could result in its removal from the store shelves IN OREGON.

Seventh, passage of a luxury tax in Oregon could result in less general tax

income as Oregon businesses lose sales to out-of-state purchases (see point

six above), when consumers are forced or choose to buy the item out-of-state

to avoid the tax.

Eighth, as a bicycling transportation advocate (I often commute by bicycle

to work), I strongly disagree with the classification of bikes over $500

being as much of a luxury as cars over $40,000. Go into any bike shop and a

good mid-level bike is over $1000. A good mid-level car is around $20,000.

The bike equivalent of a $40,000 car is a bike that costs somewhere between

$2,500 and $4,000.

Finally, following up on point three, to illustrate how arbitrary this tax

is, here are just a few logical oddities in the proposed bill:

1) "recreational" flights are taxed, but not "commercial" flights for

recreational purposes (certainly that vacation flight to Hawaii is a

luxury).

2) Fur is taxed, but not $1000 designer dresses, shoes, etc.

3) Skydiving parachutes are specifically taxed (even if under $500), but

not bungee jumping equipment, rock climbing, mountain climbing, wind

surfing, or ...

4) Snowmobiles are specifically taxed but not jet skis or ATVs or

motorcycles or go-carts or ...

5) Autos and trucks over $40,000 are specifically taxed, but not RVs or

camper trailers or ...

6) Submarines are specifically taxed, but not BOATS ???!

Also missing from the list are meals at fancy restaurants, wedding gowns,

limousine rentals for high school proms, thoroughbred horses, pedigreed

pets, stainless steel BBQ grills, grand pianos, leather couches over $1000,

solid teak lawn furniture, ornamental trees over 12 feet tall at the time of

purchase, and on and on and on. As you can see, a luxury tax is a

ridiculous idea.

- Susan

-----Original Message-----

From: galen mittermann [mailto:gmit-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:10 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

OK

Some bikes are luxury. Certainly a fancy race bike is. But is a bike

over $500 the equivalent luxury of a car over $40k? I'd equate a $500

bike with a $5k car, myself. Is a $450 fishing rod not a luxury item? Is

a $501 bike (acera level stuff with maybe a rack and fenders and a

generator) a luxury or just reliable transportation? How about a $499

frame, then a $499 crankset, two $499 set of components, etc... .

I don't mind reasonable taxes, but I mind arbitrary ones.

It strikes me as funny to impose a tax on anything that facilitates

physical activity in a nation of obese couch potatoes. How about a

luxury tax on fast food? A 'sin' tax on chip and soda? A medicare tax on

french fries so I don't have to help pay for somebody's lifetime of

irresponsible eating habits in medical bills? Heck, with the money we

save the system by staying healthy, we should all get credit for riding

our bikes.

Just my 2 cents.

galen mittermann

2005-04-01

"tax the rich, feed the poor

till there are no rich no more"

~ ten years after

im all for taxing silly expensive stuff too. luxury taxes are fine by

me. if i buy a fancy car, ATV, or other toy, just because i can, then

fine, ill pony up. but there has to be some other reasonable way to

evaluate bikes, and indeed, all sporting goods. $500 is just too

arbitrary.

im serious about the junk food tax, too, i think that would rock.

Duncan Calver wrote:

So maybe the arbitrary $500 price is silly, and so is the idea of

specifically taxing something that benefits people. I guess the state

is

just desperate for cash and thought they'd take advantage of the recent

upsurge in bike sales? Yet, in principle I'm still for taxes on

expensive

stuff. Unless the Sheriff of Nottingham walks through my door and

demands

all I own for no good reason...

Collis, Randall (EUGENE OE 322)

2005-04-01

The reality is the government will always be looking for a way to take your hard earned money. If they (elected officials) did not have to run for reelection you had better believe there would be confiscatory taxes at all levels of government. Who is a better manager of your dollars? You or Salem?

-----Original Message-----

From: Duncan Calver [mailto:duncan-@msn.com]

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:16 PM

To: gmit-@yahoo.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

So maybe the arbitrary $500 price is silly, and so is the idea of

specifically taxing something that benefits people. I guess the state is

just desperate for cash and thought they'd take advantage of the recent

upsurge in bike sales? Yet, in principle I'm still for taxes on expensive

stuff. Unless the Sheriff of Nottingham walks through my door and demands

all I own for no good reason...

From: galen mittermann <gmit-@yahoo.com>

Reply-To: gmit-@yahoo.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:10:24 +0000

OK

Some bikes are luxury. Certainly a fancy race bike is. But is a bike

over $500 the equivalent luxury of a car over $40k? I'd equate a $500

bike with a $5k car, myself. Is a $450 fishing rod not a luxury item? Is

a $501 bike (acera level stuff with maybe a rack and fenders and a

generator) a luxury or just reliable transportation? How about a $499

frame, then a $499 crankset, two $499 set of components, etc... .

I don't mind reasonable taxes, but I mind arbitrary ones.

It strikes me as funny to impose a tax on anything that facilitates

physical activity in a nation of obese couch potatoes. How about a

luxury tax on fast food? A 'sin' tax on chip and soda? A medicare tax on

french fries so I don't have to help pay for somebody's lifetime of

irresponsible eating habits in medical bills? Heck, with the money we

save the system by staying healthy, we should all get credit for riding

our bikes.

Just my 2 cents.

Duncan Calver wrote:

One more about this thread.

My $3800 Litespeed is by no way a means of regular transportation

(if I

parked it outside PSU, it could be stolen in less time than my Ksyriums

save

me on a long climb), it was bought and designed to race - a race that I

had

to pay to enter, pay to eat extra, pay to wear special technical

clothing,

team dues, gas for travel, etc. etc...I know folks who have gone into

debt

on account of bike racing.

Let's face it guys. A commuter bike can easily be made for under

$500.

Anything more than that IS a luxury item intended specifically for

those

of us wealthy/frugal enough to participate in this extraordinarily

expensive

sport. Have any of you seen the pictures of elite amateurs/pros in

North

Africa or other "third world" areas? They still ride with downtube

shifters

and other parts that would get laughed off the course at an OBRA event.

Most of us perch upon bikes very similar to the ones pros ride. LUXURY

Every time a new tax comes around, people bitch and moan. Get over

it.

    Our schools are falling apart, roads are crumbling, jails are

   overcrowded.

   I don't care where they tax me personally, so long as it goes

somewhere

other than our nuclear arsenal. If we've got the extra cash to worry

about

the rotational weight vs. aero properties on our new Zipp 909's, we've

got a

case of luxuryitis.

So maybe it's because I'm from Canada, where we get taxed almost

20% on

sales (and actually see that money spent properly), that leads me in

this

direction, but for lack of a better phrase:

TAX ME just don't KILL ME

sorry for the rant-this was not directed at anyone specifically

Duncan

From: Thomas Hoffman <t.hoff-@verizon.net>

Reply-To: t.hoff-@verizon.net

To: jonath-@yahoo.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:51:14 -0800

" Bikes are not luxury items, they are transportation."

I am not trying to single you out Jonathon, but We need a better

argument

than this. Some of us would like to think our bikes are transportation,

but

in reality, they are toys. Just like $300 softball bats. There are

those

of

us that use bikes solely as transportation. But I doubt that those

Kilo,

and

TT bikes qualify as transportation.

Bottom line is, as a community we need to make sure we have safe

streets,

good schools and neighborhoods, and we must be willing to pay for it.

But

that is a whole different user group. Our legislature is not

professional;

it is made up of guys like us, if you write them offer solutions, as

well

as

criticism of the goofy ideas.

But we need to get a grip, my $3600 Orbea is a luxury, not

transportation.

That's what Cross bikes are for.

Tom Hoffman

_____

From: Jonathan Maus [mailto:jonath-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:57 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

The whole idea of this tax (at least from what I know so far) is

completely

irrational and absurd. Bikes are not luxury items, they are

transportation.

Not to mention that we're dying for oil everyday and obesity is an

epidemic...so why would they do anything to discourage cycling?

Obviously

there's some anti-biking group behind this or it is just an oversight

and

will never pass.

I've already emailed my Chip Shields, my state representative in Salem

(I

met him at our neighborhood meeting last night).

On 3/31/2005 2:45:52 PM, moh-@easystreet.com wrote:

History has shown that the government can and will coerce businesses

into

acting as tax collectors. That

isn't the problem. The problem is twofold. First, at what point does

a

bicycle become a "luxury" item as opposed to a transportation device?

Second, the selected price point of $500 is completely arbitrary. I

would

consider a $300 softball bat to be a luxury item. It would be

interesting

to

know if firearms, specifically rifles and shotguns, are classified as

"sporting equipment."

Someone in Salem is probably going to form a committee to deal with

the

"special interest groups" that will be howling over this bill.

Hello Bicycle enthusiast and industry member:

Have you heard about the new bill in our state's

legislature?

You'll be very interested in Section 1, Item M " Sports equipment

with a

purchase price of $500 or more per item."

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond to

the

list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com

This email was sent to: t.hoff-@verizon.net

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/help/unsub.html.dC5ob2Zm

Or send an email to: obra-uns-@topica.com

For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit:

http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER

--^^---------------------------------------------------------------

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Disclaimer:

All opions expressed are my own and only my own, and do not reflect the

opions or stand of my teammates, my team's sponsors, my employer, my

relatives, my girlfreind, my former college drinking buddies, or anyone

else with whom I have ever had an association, so gripes are to be

directed at myself and only at myself.

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

--------------------------------------------------------

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Peter Murphy

2005-04-01

They can tax my bike as soon as they make owners of SUVs, Excursions,

Hummers (currently SUVs and vehicles over 6000lbs don't have to pay) or any

vehicle that costs more than $24,000 pay a luxury tax. You can just as

easily get around town in a Kia or a compact Toyota P/U.

Pete Murphy

From: Duncan Calver <duncan-@msn.com>

Reply-To: duncan-@msn.com

To: t.hoff-@verizon.net, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:28:00 -0800

One more about this thread.

 My $3800 Litespeed is by no way a means of regular transportation (if

I parked it outside PSU, it could be stolen in less time than my Ksyriums

save me on a long climb), it was bought and designed to race - a race that

I had to pay to enter, pay to eat extra, pay to wear special technical

clothing, team dues, gas for travel, etc. etc...I know folks who have gone

into debt on account of bike racing.

 Let's face it guys. A commuter bike can easily be made for under

$500. Anything more than that IS a luxury item intended specifically for

those of us wealthy/frugal enough to participate in this extraordinarily

expensive sport. Have any of you seen the pictures of elite amateurs/pros

in North Africa or other "third world" areas? They still ride with

downtube shifters and other parts that would get laughed off the course at

an OBRA event. Most of us perch upon bikes very similar to the ones pros

ride. LUXURY

 Every time a new tax comes around, people bitch and moan. Get over

it. Our schools are falling apart, roads are crumbling, jails are

overcrowded. I don't care where they tax me personally, so long as it goes

somewhere other than our nuclear arsenal. If we've got the extra cash to

worry about the rotational weight vs. aero properties on our new Zipp

909's, we've got a case of luxuryitis.

 So maybe it's because I'm from Canada, where we get taxed almost 20%

on sales (and actually see that money spent properly), that leads me in

this direction, but for lack of a better phrase:

TAX ME just don't KILL ME

sorry for the rant-this was not directed at anyone specifically

Duncan

From: Thomas Hoffman <t.hoff-@verizon.net>

Reply-To: t.hoff-@verizon.net

To: jonath-@yahoo.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:51:14 -0800

" Bikes are not luxury items, they are transportation."

I am not trying to single you out Jonathon, but We need a better argument

than this. Some of us would like to think our bikes are transportation,

but

in reality, they are toys. Just like $300 softball bats. There are those

of

us that use bikes solely as transportation. But I doubt that those Kilo,

and

TT bikes qualify as transportation.

Bottom line is, as a community we need to make sure we have safe streets,

good schools and neighborhoods, and we must be willing to pay for it. But

that is a whole different user group. Our legislature is not professional;

it is made up of guys like us, if you write them offer solutions, as well

as

criticism of the goofy ideas.

But we need to get a grip, my $3600 Orbea is a luxury, not transportation.

That's what Cross bikes are for.

Tom Hoffman

 _____

From: Jonathan Maus [mailto:jonath-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:57 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

The whole idea of this tax (at least from what I know so far) is

completely

irrational and absurd. Bikes are not luxury items, they are

transportation.

Not to mention that we're dying for oil everyday and obesity is an

epidemic...so why would they do anything to discourage cycling? Obviously

there's some anti-biking group behind this or it is just an oversight and

will never pass.

I've already emailed my Chip Shields, my state representative in Salem (I

met him at our neighborhood meeting last night).

On 3/31/2005 2:45:52 PM, moh-@easystreet.com wrote:

History has shown that the government can and will coerce businesses

into

acting as tax collectors. That

isn't the problem. The problem is twofold. First, at what point does a

bicycle become a "luxury" item as opposed to a transportation device?

Second, the selected price point of $500 is completely arbitrary. I would

consider a $300 softball bat to be a luxury item. It would be interesting

to

know if firearms, specifically rifles and shotguns, are classified as

"sporting equipment."

Someone in Salem is probably going to form a committee to deal with the

"special interest groups" that will be howling over this bill.

Hello Bicycle enthusiast and industry member:

Have you heard about the new bill in our state's

legislature?

You'll be very interested in Section 1, Item M " Sports equipment with

a

purchase price of $500 or more per item."

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond to

the

list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com

This email was sent to: t.hoff-@verizon.net

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/help/unsub.html.dC5ob2Zm

Or send an email to: obra-uns-@topica.com

For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit:

http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER

--^^---------------------------------------------------------------

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Duncan Calver

2005-04-01

So maybe the arbitrary $500 price is silly, and so is the idea of

specifically taxing something that benefits people. I guess the state is

just desperate for cash and thought they'd take advantage of the recent

upsurge in bike sales? Yet, in principle I'm still for taxes on expensive

stuff. Unless the Sheriff of Nottingham walks through my door and demands

all I own for no good reason...

From: galen mittermann <gmit-@yahoo.com>

Reply-To: gmit-@yahoo.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Oregon "luxury tax" on bikes > $500 !!! ???

Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 22:10:24 +0000

OK

Some bikes are luxury. Certainly a fancy race bike is. But is a bike

over $500 the equivalent luxury of a car over $40k? I'd equate a $500

bike with a $5k car, myself. Is a $450 fishing rod not a luxury item? Is

a $501 bike (acera level stuff with maybe a rack and fenders and a

generator) a luxury or just reliable transportation? How about a $499

frame, then a $499 crankset, two $499 set of components, etc... .

I don't mind reasonable taxes, but I mind arbitrary ones.

It strikes me as funny to impose a tax on anything that facilitates

physical activity in a nation of obese couch potatoes. How about a

luxury tax on fast food? A 'sin' tax on chip and soda? A medicare tax on

french fries so I don't have to help pay for somebody's lifetime of

irresponsible eating habits in medical bills? Heck, with the money we

save the system by staying healthy, we should all get credit for riding

our bikes.

Just my 2 cents.

Duncan Calver wrote:

One more about this thread.

My $3800 Litespeed is by no way a means of regular transportation