vicki_sc-@yahoo.com

Hi



I have finally gotten onto the OBRA mailing list and would like to add a

few words about the Women's racing debate. I have talked quite a bit

with Susan and a few promoters.



I raced in 1/2/3 fields years ago in Seattle, have been somewhat

involved in race promotion and I am starting over again this year as a

Cat 4 after years off the bike ... so I have atleast some understanding

of things from both a beginner and a promoter and a 1/2/3 point of view.

My only real goal in cycling is to see women's racing flourish here.



I understand some of the Cat 1/2/3's ire at the shorter race distances

but I would like to ask them to step back and look at the bigger picture

of women's racing in Oregon rather than just their own personal

preferences (and before anyone gets upset I'm not pointing fingers at

anyone!). Races have typically been long in the past so those who have

remained involved in cycling unsurprisingly are those who like long

races - the others have left. Until we can develop big fields in all

categories perhaps people might consider compromising at some of the

races where fields have to be combined due to numbers or logistics?



Also, short races can still be made very hard if the pace is high - I

understand that this suits some riders better than others but is that

really so bad?



I'd like to recommend that people take a look at the program in

Washington state: http://www.nwwc.org/

They have had such success that they now have separate Cat3 and Cat4

series running. Ultimately a strong program would produce 3 fields: Cat

1/2, Cat 3 and Cat 4 with progressively more challenging distances and

courses - just as we see in the men's fields - but I think we have to be

prepared to start with baby steps and compromise a little to get there.



Thanks for listening if you got this far

Vicki Schroeder

Brad Cockman, DC

Whatever happened to this race?

http://www.eugenecyclingteam.com/es/



Of that 158 Cat 4 women I wonder how many actually race consistently?

How many primarily race MTB, Cross or Track but checked the Cat 4 road

box too?



Some numbers thus far this season:



3 Cat 4 Women at Silverton

12 at POC

11 at BB #1

21 at BB #2

23 at BB #3

31 at Cherry Pie



I seem to remember a pretty fair turnout at the Even Steven race, and I

kinda liked the Men's Lump-Em-All race. Why no more?





mike.m-@obra.org wrote:

 

It seems like I am always the statistics guy. Here are the number of

women

by category according to the current OBRA database:



Cat 4 158

Cat 3 36

Cat 2 13

Cat 1 6



There are nearly 3 times as many Cat 4 women as there are women in all

the

other Categories combined. Clearly the market for women is the Cat 4

field.

It is clear (and has been shown in other areas of the country) that if

we

want to maximize women's participation we should be running Cat 4 only

Women's races in shorter distances. Unfortunately at present the

numbers of

potential participants that are women and are in categories above 4 are

so

small that having a dependable turn out is difficult.



The reasonable race organizer selects the fields to serve the market.

For

women that market is more full of people looking for shorter easier

races

than the other way around.



Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Susan Otcenas [mailto:sus-@teamestrogen.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:13 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.







1. Cat 4 is the entry category for women.    It's where we begin our

racing

experience.

2. Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be appropriate for

BEGINNERS.

3. MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored separately".



This year, several Cat 4 women have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that

are

appropriate lengths for beginners.    We have also been lobbying for

separate fields so that women of similar ability can ride together and

learn

the bike handling skills that only come from riding in a pack.



The response from the race promoters has generally been to keep one

field,

but shorten the distance for all the women. (In fairness, let me say

that

most of the promoters that have been approached have been approached

AFTER

they have already published the event information for this year.

Several

indicated that they would be more flexible in 2006 with more advance

notice.)   I know that I and at least one other Cat 4 have mentioned to

some

of the promoters that they would be risking the "ire" of the 1-2-3 women

by

keeping one field and therefore reducing the distances for the more

experienced women as well. Judging from the response today, I would

say

that's preceisely what has happened.



Approachable distances and separate fields are critical.   The longer,

hillier courses are scaring away some beginners (I know this for a fact,

I've talked with some of these women. Heck, I AM one of these women.).

One

field for all the women means that speeds are higher then what many

beginners can handle. One by one the Cat 4s get spit out the back of

the

pack, get strung out and end up riding alone.    Separating the fields

also

means that the Cat 1-2-3s can keep their longer distances.



As of a month or so ago, there were 169 women licensed to race in

Oregon.

Of that number, 122 - that's 72% - are Cat 4s.    If so many of the

racers

in Oregon are Cat 4, why we aren't seeing more of them (us) come out to

race?   Could it be that the distances are too intimidating and that

riding

by yourself after getting spit out the back is NO FUN?



The Cherry Pie had a separate race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap

instead

of 2. THIRTY-EIGHT Cat 4 women came out to race. Wow, what a turnout!

Wouldn't it be great to see that kind of turnout among beginner women at

other events here in Oregon??



The strong Cat 4s, the ones who are already coming out to every event

and

aren't having any trouble keeping up in the combined fields with the

1-2-3

women - maybe they shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore. Maybe they should be

seeking an upgrade to Cat 3.



Finally, I know Mark Ginsberg wasn't intending to pick on the women who

want

longer distances.   But just try to imagine how hard it might be for a

new,

inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race, and maybe you'll

start

to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women feel. No one would

suggest

it would be fair or logical or reasonable for that 5 to have to ride

with

the 1/2s. Why should the new women have to accept being put in that

position?



Susan



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mike.m-@obra.org

It seems like I am always the statistics guy. Here are the number of women

by category according to the current OBRA database:



Cat 4 158

Cat 3 36

Cat 2 13

Cat 1 6



There are nearly 3 times as many Cat 4 women as there are women in all the

other Categories combined. Clearly the market for women is the Cat 4 field.

It is clear (and has been shown in other areas of the country) that if we

want to maximize women's participation we should be running Cat 4 only

Women's races in shorter distances. Unfortunately at present the numbers of

potential participants that are women and are in categories above 4 are so

small that having a dependable turn out is difficult.



The reasonable race organizer selects the fields to serve the market. For

women that market is more full of people looking for shorter easier races

than the other way around.



Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Susan Otcenas [mailto:sus-@teamestrogen.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:13 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.







1. Cat 4 is the entry category for women.    It's where we begin our racing

experience.

2. Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be appropriate for BEGINNERS.

3. MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored separately".



This year, several Cat 4 women have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that are

appropriate lengths for beginners.    We have also been lobbying for

separate fields so that women of similar ability can ride together and learn

the bike handling skills that only come from riding in a pack.



The response from the race promoters has generally been to keep one field,

but shorten the distance for all the women. (In fairness, let me say that

most of the promoters that have been approached have been approached AFTER

they have already published the event information for this year. Several

indicated that they would be more flexible in 2006 with more advance

notice.)   I know that I and at least one other Cat 4 have mentioned to some

of the promoters that they would be risking the "ire" of the 1-2-3 women by

keeping one field and therefore reducing the distances for the more

experienced women as well. Judging from the response today, I would say

that's preceisely what has happened.



Approachable distances and separate fields are critical.   The longer,

hillier courses are scaring away some beginners (I know this for a fact,

I've talked with some of these women. Heck, I AM one of these women.). One

field for all the women means that speeds are higher then what many

beginners can handle. One by one the Cat 4s get spit out the back of the

pack, get strung out and end up riding alone.    Separating the fields also

means that the Cat 1-2-3s can keep their longer distances.



As of a month or so ago, there were 169 women licensed to race in Oregon.

Of that number, 122 - that's 72% - are Cat 4s.    If so many of the racers

in Oregon are Cat 4, why we aren't seeing more of them (us) come out to

race?   Could it be that the distances are too intimidating and that riding

by yourself after getting spit out the back is NO FUN?



The Cherry Pie had a separate race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap instead

of 2. THIRTY-EIGHT Cat 4 women came out to race. Wow, what a turnout!

Wouldn't it be great to see that kind of turnout among beginner women at

other events here in Oregon??



The strong Cat 4s, the ones who are already coming out to every event and

aren't having any trouble keeping up in the combined fields with the 1-2-3

women - maybe they shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore. Maybe they should be

seeking an upgrade to Cat 3.



Finally, I know Mark Ginsberg wasn't intending to pick on the women who want

longer distances.   But just try to imagine how hard it might be for a new,

inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race, and maybe you'll start

to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women feel. No one would suggest

it would be fair or logical or reasonable for that 5 to have to ride with

the 1/2s. Why should the new women have to accept being put in that

position?



Susan



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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mike.m-@obra.org

Most areas of the country have many more criteriums than we have in Oregon.

This is mostly related to the difficulty in getting a road use permit for a

long section of road for a road race vs. closing a small area for a crit.

This tendency tracks population density as might be expected. The low

population density is what makes Oregon the center for stage races that it

is. Getting road use authorization also gets more difficult in the summer

time in some areas. For example, Banana Belt could not be held at Haag Lake

after the fishing season opens.



Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@bigfoot.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 15:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.





Thirteen crits already in the NCNCA this season.



Of course they're spread out all over hell's half acre.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

I would expect the issue may have to do with summer heat, as well as

the fact that there may be more traffic on the roads in the summer. On

the other hand perhaps it is just patterns arising out of random

events and/or parallel evolution.



-----Original Message-----

From: Freyensee, James P [mailto:james.p.f-@intel.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:15 PM

To: bra-@bigfoot.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.



 2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.

I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA,

Indiana/Kentucky) and I am participating in a third 'district' here at

OBRA, and all three of these districts have had the same

characteristic you mention, that the beginning of the season is

"road", then sometime between June-August it is mainly crits, then

Sept it is back to road (or circuit racing). Believe it or not, it is

definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay



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To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Schreck, George

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Also, crits usually are a downtown spectator event, and thus, are more

likely to be held in nice weather.



________________________________



From: .David.Auker. [mailto:Dav-@Hevanet.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 4:52 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.





My take on why we race early season road, and then later in the year do

criteriums:



Early season in Oregon: wet roads more likely than later in the season.

Which would you rather do in the wet: RR or Crits?









Freyensee, James P wrote:



2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split

in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer

being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.

    







I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA,

Indiana/Kentucky)

and I am participating in a third 'district' here at OBRA, and

all three

of these districts have had the same characteristic you mention,

that

the beginning of the season is "road", then sometime between

June-August

it is mainly crits, then Sept it is back to road (or circuit

racing).

Believe it or not, it is definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay











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To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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<BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff>

<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=874560100-09042005><FONT face=Arial

color=#0000ff size=2>Also, crits usually are a downtown spectator event, and

thus, are more likely to be held in nice weather.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>

<HR tabIndex=-1>

<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> .David.Auker. [mailto:Dav-@Hevanet.com]

<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 08, 2005 4:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B>

ob-@topica.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Women's

races.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>My take on why we race early season road, and then later in the year

do criteriums:<BR><BR>Early season in Oregon: wet roads more likely than later

in the season.  Which would you rather do in the wet: RR or Crits? 

<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Freyensee, James P wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid1704681308-1-@boing.topica.com

type="cite">

<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.

    </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!---->



I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA, Indiana/Kentucky)

and I am participating in a third 'district' here at OBRA, and all three

of these districts have had the same characteristic you mention, that

the beginning of the season is "road", then sometime between June-August

it is mainly crits, then Sept it is back to road (or circuit racing).

Believe it or not, it is definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay





</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></BODY></HTML>



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.David.Auker.

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My take on why we race early season road, and then later in the year do

criteriums:



Early season in Oregon: wet roads more likely than later in the season.

Which would you rather do in the wet: RR or Crits?









Freyensee, James P wrote:



  2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.

    

I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA, Indiana/Kentucky)

and I am participating in a third 'district' here at OBRA, and all three

of these districts have had the same characteristic you mention, that

the beginning of the season is "road", then sometime between June-August

it is mainly crits, then Sept it is back to road (or circuit racing).

Believe it or not, it is definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay

--------------050303070605090300060104

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



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<head>

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</head>

<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">

My take on why we race early season road, and then later in the year do

criteriums:<br>

<br>

Early season in Oregon: wet roads more likely than later in the

season.  Which would you rather do in the wet: RR or Crits?  <br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>

Freyensee, James P wrote:

<blockquote cite="mid1704681308-1463-@boing.topica.com"

type="cite">

<blockquote type="cite">

    <pre wrap="">2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.

    </pre>

</blockquote>

<pre wrap=""><!---->



I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA, Indiana/Kentucky)

and I am participating in a third 'district' here at OBRA, and all three

of these districts have had the same characteristic you mention, that

the beginning of the season is "road", then sometime between June-August

it is mainly crits, then Sept it is back to road (or circuit racing).

Believe it or not, it is definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay





</pre>

</blockquote>

<br>

</body>

</html>



--------------050303070605090300060104--

Freyensee, James P

Yeah your right, there are a lot of crits scheduled in the NCNCA this

year.



But a lot of those crits are new races...four years ago down there it

was a more structured roadrace-crit-roadrace format, with the occasional

roadrace seen in the crit-happy months and the occasional crit seen in

the roadrace-happy months.



J



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@bigfoot.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 3:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.



Thirteen crits already in the NCNCA this season.



Of course they're spread out all over hell's half acre.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

I would expect the issue may have to do with summer heat, as well as

the

 fact that there may be more traffic on the roads in the summer. On the

other hand perhaps it is just patterns arising out of random events

and/or parallel evolution.



-----Original Message-----

From: Freyensee, James P [mailto:james.p.f-@intel.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:15 PM

To: bra-@bigfoot.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.



 2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

  early season being "road" season and later in the summer being

"crit"

  season. I'm not sure why this is.

I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA,

Indiana/Kentucky)

 and I am participating in a third 'district' here at OBRA, and all

three

 of these districts have had the same characteristic you mention, that

the beginning of the season is "road", then sometime between

June-August

 it is mainly crits, then Sept it is back to road (or circuit racing).

Believe it or not, it is definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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------

 



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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by

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 else, unless expressly approved by the sender or an authorized

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 destroy all copies.

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Brad Cockman, DC

Thirteen crits already in the NCNCA this season.



Of course they're spread out all over hell's half acre.



Schreck, George wrote:

 

I would expect the issue may have to do with summer heat, as well as the

fact that there may be more traffic on the roads in the summer. On the

other hand perhaps it is just patterns arising out of random events

and/or parallel evolution.



-----Original Message-----

From: Freyensee, James P [mailto:james.p.f-@intel.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:15 PM

To: bra-@bigfoot.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.



 2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.

I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA, Indiana/Kentucky)

and I am participating in a third 'district' here at OBRA, and all three

of these districts have had the same characteristic you mention, that

the beginning of the season is "road", then sometime between June-August

it is mainly crits, then Sept it is back to road (or circuit racing).

Believe it or not, it is definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









------------------------------------------------------------------------------





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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone

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addressee, is unauthorized.



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distribution or any action omitted or taken in reliance on it, is

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destroy all copies.



==============================================================================

Schreck, George

I would expect the issue may have to do with summer heat, as well as the

fact that there may be more traffic on the roads in the summer. On the

other hand perhaps it is just patterns arising out of random events

and/or parallel evolution.



-----Original Message-----

From: Freyensee, James P [mailto:james.p.f-@intel.com]

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:15 PM

To: bra-@bigfoot.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.



 2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.

I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA, Indiana/Kentucky)

and I am participating in a third 'district' here at OBRA, and all three

of these districts have had the same characteristic you mention, that

the beginning of the season is "road", then sometime between June-August

it is mainly crits, then Sept it is back to road (or circuit racing).

Believe it or not, it is definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com









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==============================================================================

Freyensee, James P

 2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.

I have raced in two different districts (NorCal/NCNCA, Indiana/Kentucky)

and I am participating in a third 'district' here at OBRA, and all three

of these districts have had the same characteristic you mention, that

the beginning of the season is "road", then sometime between June-August

it is mainly crits, then Sept it is back to road (or circuit racing).

Believe it or not, it is definitely not unique.



(but the stage racing up here is unique which is awesome!)



Jay

Brad Cockman, DC

Here's my take on this as a promoter:



a) early season races see high turnouts for all fields, Cat 4 women

being no exception here or in other regions. Check out the numbers in

the NCNCA.



2) The OBRA racing season seems to have a bit of a split in it, with

early season being "road" season and later in the summer being "crit"

season. I'm not sure why this is.



3) Some people shy away from criteriums, women especially it seems. I

think there is a big misconception about crits being more dangerous than

road races. If you're not comfortable with the closer quarters racing,

practice.



d) It's really just a numbers game. Race promoters know that

historically the smallest fields at any given race are juniors and women

(and sometimes the 45+ men). It just doesn't work to put a separate

field in a given race-day schedule if you know there's going to be zero

to three competitors.



e) There's an awful lot of stage racing here in Oregon, which is great,

but I think the bulk of the racing populus, women included, would be

more apt to do a one-day race. Stage racing takes the next level of

commitment, training-wise, time-wise and monetarily, probably something

most Cat 4 women are not prepared for.



In the end it's just logistics and profitability. My advice to all the

women racers out there would be RALLY THE TROOPS! If you have a Cat 4

friend who won't do crits, encourage her! Take her to her first stage

race! Introduce her to the track! Make her do cyclocross and drink

beer!! If promoters can be virtually guaranteed there will be enough

competitors (like any given Cat 3 race) there will be a category for

you.









Susan Otcenas wrote:

 

1. Cat 4 is the entry category for women.    It's where we begin our

racing

experience.

2. Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be appropriate for

BEGINNERS.

3. MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored separately".



This year, several Cat 4 women have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that

are

appropriate lengths for beginners.    We have also been lobbying for

separate fields so that women of similar ability can ride together and

learn

the bike handling skills that only come from riding in a pack.



The response from the race promoters has generally been to keep one

field,

but shorten the distance for all the women. (In fairness, let me say

that

most of the promoters that have been approached have been approached

AFTER

they have already published the event information for this year.

Several

indicated that they would be more flexible in 2006 with more advance

notice.)   I know that I and at least one other Cat 4 have mentioned to

some

of the promoters that they would be risking the "ire" of the 1-2-3 women

by

keeping one field and therefore reducing the distances for the more

experienced women as well. Judging from the response today, I would

say

that's preceisely what has happened.



Approachable distances and separate fields are critical.   The longer,

hillier courses are scaring away some beginners (I know this for a fact,

I've talked with some of these women. Heck, I AM one of these women.).

One

field for all the women means that speeds are higher then what many

beginners can handle. One by one the Cat 4s get spit out the back of

the

pack, get strung out and end up riding alone.    Separating the fields

also

means that the Cat 1-2-3s can keep their longer distances.



As of a month or so ago, there were 169 women licensed to race in

Oregon.

Of that number, 122 - that's 72% - are Cat 4s.    If so many of the

racers

in Oregon are Cat 4, why we aren't seeing more of them (us) come out to

race?   Could it be that the distances are too intimidating and that

riding

by yourself after getting spit out the back is NO FUN?



The Cherry Pie had a separate race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap

instead

of 2. THIRTY-EIGHT Cat 4 women came out to race. Wow, what a turnout!

Wouldn't it be great to see that kind of turnout among beginner women at

other events here in Oregon??



The strong Cat 4s, the ones who are already coming out to every event

and

aren't having any trouble keeping up in the combined fields with the

1-2-3

women - maybe they shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore. Maybe they should be

seeking an upgrade to Cat 3.



Finally, I know Mark Ginsberg wasn't intending to pick on the women who

want

longer distances.   But just try to imagine how hard it might be for a

new,

inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race, and maybe you'll

start

to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women feel. No one would

suggest

it would be fair or logical or reasonable for that 5 to have to ride

with

the 1/2s. Why should the new women have to accept being put in that

position?



Susan

Cheryl J. Willson

--Apple-Mail-107--612757537

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charset=ISO-8859-1;

format=flowed



As a former category 4 state champion (Sprint & 500m), I just want to

say it is really cool that there are separate state championships for

category 4 women. It's a lot of fun to have a chance to compete against

your peers (would have been more fun with more peers but beggers can't

be choosers). Anyway, it was super fun for me to actually have a chance

at winning!



So, those of you beginner women who choose to do road races, get out

there on May 12 and go for your own state title! (There's a separate

race for Category 4s on May 12 and it is the championship.)



And to those of you that are more like me, you can try the state road

race to see if you can ride the distance with some grace or - even

better- check out the track! The distances are quite manageable -

especially on Friday nights! Besides, you'll get to race with some of

my favorite ladies. If you've never tried the track, Wednesday night

classes start on April 13.



Okay, end weird combo state championship and track racing plug...which

is only remotely related to Susan's email. I've hit my posting limit

for the month now.....so that's it from me.



Cheryl





Begin forwarded message:



 From: Susan Otcenas <sus-@teamestrogen.com>

Date: April 8, 2005 11:13:18 AM PDT

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Women's races.

Reply-To: sus-@teamestrogen.com



?

1. Cat 4 is the entry category for women.??? It's where we begin our

racing experience.?

2.?Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be appropriate for

BEGINNERS.

3. MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored separately".?

?

This year, several Cat 4 women have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that

are appropriate lengths?for beginners.? ? We have also been lobbying

for separate fields so that women of similar ability can ride together

and learn the bike handling skills that only come from riding in a

pack.

?

The response from the race promoters has generally been to keep one

field, but?shorten the distance for all the women. (In fairness, let

me say that most of the promoters that have been approached have been

approached AFTER they have already published the event information for

this year.? Several indicated that they would be more flexible in 2006

with more advance notice.)?? I know that I and at least one other Cat

4 have mentioned to some of the promoters that they would be risking

the "ire" of the 1-2-3 women by keeping one field and therefore

reducing the distances for the more experienced women as well.?

Judging from the response today,? I would say that's preceisely what

has happened.

?

Approachable distances and separate fields are critical.?? The

longer,?hillier courses are scaring away some beginners (I know this

for a fact, I've talked with some of these women. Heck, I AM one of

these women.).? One field for all the women means that speeds are

higher then what many beginners can handle.? One by one the Cat 4s get

spit out the back of the pack, get strung out?and end up riding

alone.??? Separating the fields also means that the Cat 1-2-3s can

keep their longer distances.

?

As of a month or so ago, there were 169 women licensed to race in

Oregon.? Of that number, 122 - that's 72% - are Cat 4s.??? If so many

of the racers in Oregon are Cat 4,?why we aren't seeing more of them

(us) come out to race??? Could it be that the distances are too

intimidating and that riding by yourself after getting spit out the

back is NO FUN?

?

The Cherry Pie had a separate race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap

instead of 2.? THIRTY-EIGHT Cat 4 women came out to race.? Wow, what a

turnout!? Wouldn't it be great to see that kind of turnout among

beginner women at other events here in Oregon??

?

The strong Cat 4s, the ones who are already coming out to every event

and aren't having any trouble keeping up in the combined fields with

the 1-2-3 women - maybe they shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore.? Maybe they

should be seeking an upgrade to Cat 3.

?

Finally, I know Mark Ginsberg wasn't intending to pick on the women

who want longer distances.?? But just try to imagine how hard it might

be for a new, inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race,

and maybe you'll start to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women

feel.? No one would suggest it would be fair or logical or reasonable

for that 5 to have to ride with the 1/2s.? Why should the new women

have to accept being put in that position?

?

Susan

?

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

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As a former category 4 state champion (Sprint & 500m), I just want to

say it is really cool that there are separate state championships for

category 4 women. It's a lot of fun to have a chance to compete

against your peers (would have been more fun with more peers but

beggers can't be choosers). Anyway, it was super fun for me to

actually have a chance at winning!=20





So, those of you beginner women who choose to do road races, get out

there on May 12 and go for your own state title! (There's a separate

race for Category 4s on May 12 and it is the championship.)





And to those of you that are more like me, you can try the state road

race to see if you can ride the distance with some grace or - even

better- check out the track! The distances are quite manageable -

especially on Friday nights! Besides, you'll get to race with some of

my favorite ladies. If you've never tried the track, Wednesday night

classes start on April 13.





Okay, end weird combo state championship and track racing plug...which

is only remotely related to Susan's email. I've hit my posting limit

for the month now.....so that's it from me.





Cheryl







Begin forwarded message:





<excerpt><bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>From:

</color></bold>Susan Otcenas <<sus-@teamestrogen.com>



<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Date: </color></bold>April

8, 2005 11:13:18 AM PDT



<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>To:

</color></bold>ob-@topica.com



<bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Subject: </color>[OBRA Chat]

Women's races.



<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Reply-To:

</color></bold>sus-@teamestrogen.com





=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>1.

Cat 4 is the entry category for women.=A0=A0=A0 It's where we begin our

racing experience.=A0</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>

2.=A0Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be appropriate for

BEGINNERS.</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>3.

MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored =

separately".=A0</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>This

year, several Cat 4 women have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that are

appropriate lengths=A0for beginners.=A0 =A0 We have also been lobbying =

for

separate fields so that women of similar ability can ride together and

learn the bike handling skills that only come from riding in a =

pack.</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>The

response from the race promoters has generally been to keep one field,

but=A0shorten the distance for all the women. (In fairness, let me say

that most of the promoters that have been approached have been

approached AFTER they have already published the event information for

this year.=A0 Several indicated that they would be more flexible in 2006

with more advance notice.)=A0=A0 I know that I and at least one other =

Cat

4 have mentioned to some of the promoters that they would be risking

the "ire" of the 1-2-3 women by keeping one field and therefore

reducing the distances for the more experienced women as well.=A0

Judging from the response today,=A0 I would say that's preceisely what

has happened.</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>Approachable

distances and separate fields are critical.=A0=A0 The longer,=A0hillier

courses are scaring away some beginners (I know this for a fact, I've

talked with some of these women. Heck, I AM one of these women.).=A0 One

field for all the women means that speeds are higher then what many

beginners can handle.=A0 One by one the Cat 4s get spit out the back of

the pack, get strung out=A0and end up riding alone.=A0=A0=A0 Separating =

the

fields also means that the Cat 1-2-3s can keep their longer =

distances.</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>As

of a month or so ago, there were 169 women licensed to race in

Oregon.=A0 Of that number, 122 - that's 72% - are Cat 4s.=A0=A0=A0 If so =

many

of the racers in Oregon are Cat 4,=A0why we aren't seeing more of them

(us) come out to race?=A0=A0 Could it be that the distances are too

intimidating and that riding by yourself after getting spit out the

back is NO FUN?</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>The

Cherry Pie had a separate race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap

instead of 2.=A0 THIRTY-EIGHT Cat 4 women came out to race.=A0 Wow, what =

a

turnout!=A0 Wouldn't it be great to see that kind of turnout among

beginner women at other events here in =

Oregon??</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>The

strong Cat 4s, the ones who are already coming out to every event and

aren't having any trouble keeping up in the combined fields with the

1-2-3 women - maybe they shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore.=A0 Maybe they

should be seeking an upgrade to Cat 3.</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>Finally,

I know Mark Ginsberg wasn't intending to pick on the women who want

longer distances.=A0=A0 But just try to imagine how hard it might be for =

a

new, inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race, and maybe

you'll start to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women feel.=A0 No

one would suggest it would be fair or logical or reasonable for that 5

to have to ride with the 1/2s.=A0 Why should the new women have to

accept being put in that position?</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



=

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><small=

er>Susan</smaller></color></fontfamily>



=A0



<fixed>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.



To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org



To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</fixed>



=

 


</excerpt>=



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Gary Medley

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Susan, I hear you. As a beginning CAT 5 in my fifties, hanging with the

open 4/5s is the same situation, especially when the peloton is being

driven by really young, fast guys who finish at the front of 3/4

races. There's a reason Cherry Pie had 87 riders in the CAT 5-only

race! Then again, the race promoters are in a bind, no matter what they

do. But if the goal is to encourage race participation in newcomers,

catering to them wouldn't be a bad idea. Bike racing is really fun -- if

you have someone to race with. That's it for me. Pile on.



Gary





At 11:13 AM 4/8/2005, you wrote:



 

1. Cat 4 is the entry category for women.    It's where we begin our

racing experience.

2. Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be appropriate for BEGINNERS.

3. MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored separately".



This year, several Cat 4 women have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that are

appropriate lengths for beginners.    We have also been lobbying for

separate fields so that women of similar ability can ride together and

learn the bike handling skills that only come from riding in a pack.



The response from the race promoters has generally been to keep one field,

but shorten the distance for all the women. (In fairness, let me say that

most of the promoters that have been approached have been approached AFTER

they have already published the event information for this year. Several

indicated that they would be more flexible in 2006 with more advance

notice.)   I know that I and at least one other Cat 4 have mentioned to

some of the promoters that they would be risking the "ire" of the 1-2-3

women by keeping one field and therefore reducing the distances for the

more experienced women as well. Judging from the response today, I would

say that's preceisely what has happened.



Approachable distances and separate fields are critical.   The longer,

hillier courses are scaring away some beginners (I know this for a fact,

I've talked with some of these women. Heck, I AM one of these

women.). One field for all the women means that speeds are higher then

what many beginners can handle. One by one the Cat 4s get spit out the

back of the pack, get strung out and end up riding alone.    Separating

the fields also means that the Cat 1-2-3s can keep their longer distances.



As of a month or so ago, there were 169 women licensed to race in

Oregon. Of that number, 122 - that's 72% - are Cat 4s.    If so many of

the racers in Oregon are Cat 4, why we aren't seeing more of them (us)

come out to race?   Could it be that the distances are too intimidating

and that riding by yourself after getting spit out the back is NO FUN?



The Cherry Pie had a separate race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap

instead of 2. THIRTY-EIGHT Cat 4 women came out to race. Wow, what a

turnout! Wouldn't it be great to see that kind of turnout among beginner

women at other events here in Oregon??



The strong Cat 4s, the ones who are already coming out to every event and

aren't having any trouble keeping up in the combined fields with the 1-2-3

women - maybe they shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore. Maybe they should be

seeking an upgrade to Cat 3.



Finally, I know Mark Ginsberg wasn't intending to pick on the women who

want longer distances.   But just try to imagine how hard it might be for

a new, inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race, and maybe

you'll start to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women feel. No one

would suggest it would be fair or logical or reasonable for that 5 to have

to ride with the 1/2s. Why should the new women have to accept being put

in that position?



Susan







To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



No virus found in this incoming message.

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Gary Medley

Medley Communications

704 NE 43rd

Portland, Oregon 97213 USA

503/239-3948 tel & fax

garym-@comcast.net

--=====================_11139437==.ALT

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<html>

<body>

Susan, I hear you.  As a beginning CAT 5 in my fifties, hanging with

the open 4/5s is the same situation, especially when the peloton is being

driven by really young, fast guys who finish at the front of 3/4

races.  There's a reason Cherry Pie had 87 riders in the CAT 5-only

race!  Then again, the race promoters are in a bind, no matter what

they do.  But if the goal is to encourage race participation in

newcomers, catering to them wouldn't be a bad idea.  Bike racing is

really fun -- if you have someone to race with.  That's it for

me.  Pile on.<br><br>

Gary<br><br>

<br>

At 11:13 AM 4/8/2005, you wrote:<br><br>

<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">1. Cat 4 is the entry category

for women.    It's where we begin our racing

experience.  <br>

2. Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be appropriate for

BEGINNERS.<br>

3. MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored separately".

<br>

</font> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">This year, several Cat 4 women

have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that are appropriate lengths for

beginners.    We have also been lobbying for separate

fields so that women of similar ability can ride together and learn the

bike handling skills that only come from riding in a pack.<br>

</font> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">The response from the race

promoters has generally been to keep one field, but shorten the distance

for all the women. (In fairness, let me say that most of the promoters

that have been approached have been approached AFTER they have already

published the event information for this year.  Several indicated

that they would be more flexible in 2006 with more advance

notice.)   I know that I and at least one other Cat 4 have

mentioned to some of the promoters that they would be risking the

"ire" of the 1-2-3 women by keeping one field and therefore

reducing the distances for the more experienced women as well. 

Judging from the response today,  I would say that's preceisely what

has happened.<br>

</font> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Approachable distances and

separate fields are critical.   The longer, hillier courses are

scaring away some beginners (I know this for a fact, I've talked with

some of these women. Heck, I AM one of these women.).  One field for

all the women means that speeds are higher then what many beginners can

handle.  One by one the Cat 4s get spit out the back of the pack,

get strung out and end up riding alone.    Separating the

fields also means that the Cat 1-2-3s can keep their longer

distances.<br>

</font> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">As of a month or so ago, there

were 169 women licensed to race in Oregon.  Of that number, 122 -

that's 72% - are Cat 4s.    If so many of the racers in

Oregon are Cat 4, why we aren't seeing more of them (us) come out to

race?   Could it be that the distances are too intimidating and

that riding by yourself after getting spit out the back is NO FUN?<br>

</font> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">The Cherry Pie had a separate

race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap instead of 2.  THIRTY-EIGHT

Cat 4 women came out to race.  Wow, what a turnout!  Wouldn't

it be great to see that kind of turnout among beginner women at other

events here in Oregon??<br>

</font> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">The strong Cat 4s, the ones who

are already coming out to every event and aren't having any trouble

keeping up in the combined fields with the 1-2-3 women - maybe they

shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore.  Maybe they should be seeking an

upgrade to Cat 3.<br>

</font> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Finally, I know Mark Ginsberg

wasn't intending to pick on the women who want longer

distances.   But just try to imagine how hard it might be for a

new, inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race, and maybe

you'll start to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women feel. 

No one would suggest it would be fair or logical or reasonable for that 5

to have to ride with the 1/2s.  Why should the new women have to

accept being put in that position?<br>

</font> <br>

<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Susan<br>

</font> <br>



<dl><br>



</dl><br>

<pre>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to

obra-uns-@topica.com</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font>

<br>



<font face="Courier New, Courier"></font><br><br>

No virus found in this incoming message.<br>

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.<br>

Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date:

4/7/2005</blockquote>

<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>

Gary Medley<br>

Medley Communications<br>

704 NE 43rd<br>

Portland, Oregon 97213 USA<br>

503/239-3948 tel & fax<br>

garym-@comcast.net</body>

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Susan Otcenas

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1. Cat 4 is the entry category for women.    It's where we begin our racing

experience.

2. Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be appropriate for BEGINNERS.

3. MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored separately".



This year, several Cat 4 women have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that are

appropriate lengths for beginners.    We have also been lobbying for

separate fields so that women of similar ability can ride together and learn

the bike handling skills that only come from riding in a pack.



The response from the race promoters has generally been to keep one field,

but shorten the distance for all the women. (In fairness, let me say that

most of the promoters that have been approached have been approached AFTER

they have already published the event information for this year. Several

indicated that they would be more flexible in 2006 with more advance

notice.)   I know that I and at least one other Cat 4 have mentioned to some

of the promoters that they would be risking the "ire" of the 1-2-3 women by

keeping one field and therefore reducing the distances for the more

experienced women as well. Judging from the response today, I would say

that's preceisely what has happened.



Approachable distances and separate fields are critical.   The longer,

hillier courses are scaring away some beginners (I know this for a fact,

I've talked with some of these women. Heck, I AM one of these women.). One

field for all the women means that speeds are higher then what many

beginners can handle. One by one the Cat 4s get spit out the back of the

pack, get strung out and end up riding alone.    Separating the fields also

means that the Cat 1-2-3s can keep their longer distances.



As of a month or so ago, there were 169 women licensed to race in Oregon.

Of that number, 122 - that's 72% - are Cat 4s.    If so many of the racers

in Oregon are Cat 4, why we aren't seeing more of them (us) come out to

race?   Could it be that the distances are too intimidating and that riding

by yourself after getting spit out the back is NO FUN?



The Cherry Pie had a separate race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap instead

of 2. THIRTY-EIGHT Cat 4 women came out to race. Wow, what a turnout!

Wouldn't it be great to see that kind of turnout among beginner women at

other events here in Oregon??



The strong Cat 4s, the ones who are already coming out to every event and

aren't having any trouble keeping up in the combined fields with the 1-2-3

women - maybe they shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore. Maybe they should be

seeking an upgrade to Cat 3.



Finally, I know Mark Ginsberg wasn't intending to pick on the women who want

longer distances.   But just try to imagine how hard it might be for a new,

inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race, and maybe you'll start

to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women feel. No one would suggest

it would be fair or logical or reasonable for that 5 to have to ride with

the 1/2s. Why should the new women have to accept being put in that

position?



Susan











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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=297054316-08042005></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2><SPAN class=297054316-08042005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=297054316-08042005>1. Cat

4 is the entry category for women.    It's where we begin our

racing experience.  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=297054316-08042005>2. Distances in Cat 4 races should therefore be

appropriate for BEGINNERS.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=297054316-08042005>3.

MANY races combine all the women together, cats 1-2-3-& 4 with the

understanding the the Cat 4 women will be "scored

separately". </SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=297054316-08042005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=297054316-08042005>This

year, several Cat 4 women have been lobbying for Cat 4 races that are

appropriate lengths for beginners.    We have also been lobbying

for separate fields so that women of similar ability can ride together and learn

the bike handling skills that only come from riding in a

pack.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=297054316-08042005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=297054316-08042005>The

response from the race promoters has generally been to keep one field,

but shorten the distance for all the women. (In fairness, let me say that

most of the promoters that have been approached have been approached AFTER they

have already published the event information for this year.  Several

indicated that they would be more flexible in 2006 with more advance

notice.)   I know that I and at least one other Cat 4 have mentioned

to some of the promoters that they would be risking the "ire" of the 1-2-3 women

by keeping one field and therefore reducing the distances for the more

experienced women as well.  Judging from the response today,  I would

say that's preceisely what has happened.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=297054316-08042005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=297054316-08042005>Approachable distances and separate fields are

critical.   The longer, hillier courses are scaring away some

beginners (I know this for a fact, I've talked with some of these women. Heck, I

AM one of these women.).  One field for all the women means that speeds are

higher then what many beginners can handle.  One by one the Cat 4s get spit

out the back of the pack, get strung out and end up riding

alone.    Separating the fields also means that the Cat 1-2-3s

can keep their longer distances.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN

class=297054316-08042005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As of

a month or so ago, there were 169 women licensed to race in Oregon.  Of

that number, 122 - that's 72% - are Cat 4s.    If so many of the

racers in Oregon are Cat 4, why we aren't seeing more of them (us) come out

to race?   Could it be that the distances are too intimidating and

that riding by yourself after getting spit out the back is NO

FUN?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The

Cherry Pie had a separate race for Cat 4 women, with just 1 lap instead of

2.  THIRTY-EIGHT Cat 4 women came out to race.  Wow, what a

turnout!  Wouldn't it be great to see that kind of turnout among beginner

women at other events here in Oregon??</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The

strong Cat 4s, the ones who are already coming out to every event and aren't

having any trouble keeping up in the combined fields with the 1-2-3 women -

maybe they shouldn't be Cat 4s anymore.  Maybe they should be seeking an

upgrade to Cat 3.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2>Finally, I know Mark Ginsberg wasn't intending to pick on the women who

want longer distances.   But just try to imagine how hard it might be

for a new, inexperienced Cat 5 guy to participate in a 1/2 race, and maybe

you'll start to get an idea for how some of the Cat 4 women feel.  No one

would suggest it would be fair or logical or reasonable for that 5 to have to

ride with the 1/2s.  Why should the new women have to accept being put in

that position?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2>Susan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><SPAN class=297054316-08042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff

size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>

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