Re: Study Cautions Runners to Limit Their Water Intake (applys to bi

Tris-@aol.com

2005-04-17





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Actually, in sports medicine it is becoming a much more frequent occurrence.

A friend and master's racer became hyponatremic while competing at Master's

nationals in Augusta, GA, precisely by becoming so attentive to his hydration

that he tried to keep pace with water losses without including other

electrolytes.   Most of us do not race long enough, in hot enough conditions, to make

it an issue.   However, many people who participate in Ironman-length events do

manage to overhydrate.   Tim Noakes, an admitted iconoclast, has made a big

deal of the US focusing too much on hydration, when there is significantly less

concrete data pointing to dehydration specifically as the issue in extended

exercise than most people think.



When taking in fluids in hot conditions, especially for those of us not

heat-acclimated (and in Portland, it is rarely hot enough for long enough to lead

to complete acclimation), it makes sense to consume energy drinks and pay

attention to salt intake. Those who are not heat-acclimated lose significantly more

sodium in our sweat than those who are.    At our very own OBRA conference

two years ago, the head of physiology for USA Cycling noted that Gatorade was

originally slated to have significantly more sodium than it does but was changed

to make it more mass-marketable.   He further stated that for his athletes in

hot environments he recommended salting their Gatorade (Atlanta '96 was an

example).   This has worked well for me on long, hot days (STP two years ago,

long rides in CA's central valley, etc.).



Most Americans do get more than enough salt (and fat, and calories).   But

that doesn't mean that endurance athletes exercising for long periods in the

heat do.



-Ian Penner, Exercise Phys.



P.S- I have not read the specific article, just commenting on the general

issues.   So take with a grain of salt...



In a message dated 4/16/05 3:51:15 PM, mike.m-@obra.org writes:

 

Like much of what is in the media, the quoted article contains much

misunderstanding and really tends to frighten?more than inform.? The advent of the

internet, which has made nearly everyone a publisher, has worsened the

problem.? There is little reason to suggest salt supplementation for any American

including endurance athletes since most of us have a diet too high in sodium

anyhow.? Sweat loses of sodium only need to be replaced in very extended

exercise and generally the amount that needs to be replaced is small.? Specifically

with regards to bike racers, in the past 30 plus years of bike racing I have

yet to see an over hydrated rider.? I am sure it is possible but you would

have to work at it pretty hard.? Even in other sports it is a very rare problem

even with the recently seen increase. Don't be scared, be reasonable.? The

same thinking should be applied to marketing hype.? "Hydrate or die" is

clearly just as over stated as would be "Over hydrate AND die".??



?



Mike?Murray MD





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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Geneva" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="2">Actually, in sports medicine it is becoming a much more frequent occurrence.  A friend and master's racer became hyponatremic while competing at Master's nationals in Augusta, GA, precisely by becoming so attentive to his hydration that he tried to keep pace with water losses without including other electrolytes.  Most of us do not race long enough, in hot enough conditions, to make it an issue.  However, many people who participate in Ironman-length events do manage to overhydrate.  Tim Noakes, an admitted iconoclast, has made a big deal of the US focusing too much on hydration, when there is significantly less concrete data pointing to dehydration specifically as the issue in extended exercise than most people think.<BR>

<BR>

When taking in fluids in hot conditions, especially for those of us not heat-acclimated (and in Portland, it is rarely hot enough for long enough to lead to complete acclimation), it makes sense to consume energy drinks and pay attention to salt intake. Those who are not heat-acclimated lose significantly more sodium in our sweat than those who are.   At our very own OBRA conference two years ago, the head of physiology for USA Cycling noted that Gatorade was originally slated to have significantly more sodium than it does but was changed to make it more mass-marketable.  He further stated that for his athletes in hot environments he recommended salting their Gatorade (Atlanta '96 was an example).  This has worked well for me on long, hot days (STP two years ago, long rides in CA's central valley, etc.). <BR>

<BR>

Most Americans do get more than enough salt (and fat, and calories).  But that doesn't mean that endurance athletes exercising for long periods in the heat do.<BR>

<BR>

-Ian Penner, Exercise Phys.<BR>

<BR>

P.S- I have not read the specific article, just commenting on the general issues.  So take with a grain of salt...<BR>

<BR>

In a message dated 4/16/05 3:51:15 PM, mike.m-@obra.org writes:<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE CITE STYLE="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" TYPE="CITE"></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Geneva" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="2"><BR>

</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="Arial" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="2">Like much of what is in the media, the quoted article contains much misunderstanding and really tends to frighten?more than inform.? The advent of the internet, which has made nearly everyone a publisher, has worsened the problem.? There is little reason to suggest salt supplementation for any American including endurance athletes since most of us have a diet too high in sodium anyhow.? Sweat loses of sodium only need to be replaced in very extended exercise and generally the amount that needs to be replaced is small.? Specifically with regards to bike racers, in the past 30 plus years of bike racing I have yet to see an over hydrated rider.? I am sure it is possible but you would have to work at it pretty hard.? Even in other sports it is a very rare problem even with the recently seen increase. Don't be scared, be reasonable.? The same thinking should be applied to marketing hype.? "Hydrate or die" is clearly just as over stated as would be "Over hydrate AND die".??</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Geneva" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="2"><BR>

<BR>

?<BR>

<BR>

Mike?Murray MD<BR>

<BR>

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Geneva" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="2"><BR>

<BR>

</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" FACE="Geneva" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" SIZE="2"></FONT></HTML>

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mike.m-@obra.org

2005-04-16



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Like much of what is in the media, the quoted article contains much

misunderstanding and really tends to frighten more than inform. The advent

of the internet, which has made nearly everyone a publisher, has worsened

the problem. There is little reason to suggest salt supplementation for any

American including endurance athletes since most of us have a diet too high

in sodium anyhow. Sweat loses of sodium only need to be replaced in very

extended exercise and generally the amount that needs to be replaced is

small. Specifically with regards to bike racers, in the past 30 plus years

of bike racing I have yet to see an over hydrated rider. I am sure it is

possible but you would have to work at it pretty hard. Even in other sports

it is a very rare problem even with the recently seen increase. Don't be

scared, be reasonable. The same thinking should be applied to marketing

hype. "Hydrate or die" is clearly just as over stated as would be "Over

hydrate AND die".



Mike Murray MD



-----Original Message-----

From: alex zeisberg [mailto:musicvi-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 13:31 PM

To: everyone; Lind-@selfenhancement.org; Christian Martin; mike; Robert

Mionske; Peter Murphy; Mark Ontiveros; Dave Petterson; Justin Rock;

ro-@aracnet.com; Chris Sautter; Justin Short; Alan Sutton; Expression

Thomas; tiv-@pdx.edu; Jefferson Vowell; Mark Wexler; Jay Beattie; john

benenate; John Benenate; Timothy Bergmann; Phil Brad; Jennifer Brinkman;

angel cobb; Anissa Cobb; Tim Coffey; bill cohoon; Zac Copeland; Joey Dango;

Chris Deardorff; Peggy Deardorff; MARIO ECHEVERIA; Francesca; Frost;

Greenpr-@aol.com; Janet Halbert; jes-@pdx.edu; jes-@pdx.edu;

jsh-@joethefish.com; Michael Lakomecki; Ken LeGros; Lindsey

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Study Cautions Runners to Limit Their Water Intake

(applys to bikers





http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/14/health/14water.html?ex=1114228800

<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/14/health/14water.html?ex=1114228800&en=b69b

67acda66e5b4&ei=5070> &en=b69b67acda66e5b4&ei=5070



This is some scary stuff and i just wanted to let everoyne know about this,

because this is the first i have ever heard about this.



Well have a good one and make sure you eat your salt.



Alex Zeisberg





Alex Zeisberg

For all your sound needs...

IFAF Studios

503-626-0114







_____



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<DIV><SPAN class=620065821-16042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Like

much of what is in the media, the quoted article contains much misunderstanding

and really tends to frighten more than inform.  The advent of the

internet, which has made nearly everyone a publisher, has worsened the

problem.  There is little reason to suggest salt supplementation for any

American including endurance athletes since most of us have a diet too high in

sodium anyhow.  Sweat loses of sodium only need to be replaced in very

extended exercise and generally the amount that needs to be replaced is

small.  Specifically with regards to bike racers, in the past 30 plus years

of bike racing I have yet to see an over hydrated rider.  I am sure it is

possible but you would have to work at it pretty hard.  Even in other

sports it is a very rare problem even with the recently seen increase. Don't be

scared, be reasonable.  The same thinking should be applied to marketing

hype.  "Hydrate or die" is clearly just as over stated as would be "Over

hydrate AND die".  </FONT></SPAN></DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>

<DIV><FONT size=2>Mike <SPAN class=620065821-16042005>Murray

MD</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

<DIV></DIV>

<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT

face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> alex zeisberg

[mailto:musicvi-@yahoo.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 16, 2005

13:31 PM<BR><B>To:</B> everyone; Lind-@selfenhancement.org; Christian

Martin; mike; Robert Mionske; Peter Murphy; Mark Ontiveros; Dave Petterson;

Justin Rock; ro-@aracnet.com; Chris Sautter; Justin Short; Alan Sutton;

Expression Thomas; tiv-@pdx.edu; Jefferson Vowell; Mark Wexler; Jay Beattie;

john benenate; John Benenate; Timothy Bergmann; Phil Brad; Jennifer Brinkman;

angel cobb; Anissa Cobb; Tim Coffey; bill cohoon; Zac Copeland; Joey Dango;

Chris Deardorff; Peggy Deardorff; MARIO ECHEVERIA; Francesca; Frost;

Greenpr-@aol.com; Janet Halbert; jes-@pdx.edu; jes-@pdx.edu;

jsh-@joethefish.com; Michael Lakomecki; Ken LeGros;

Lindsey<BR><B>Subject:</B> [OBRA Chat] Study Cautions Runners to Limit Their

Water Intake (applys to bikers<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>

<DIV><A

href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/14/health/14water.html?ex=1114228800&amp;en=b69b67acda66e5b4&ei=5070">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/14/health/14water.html?ex=1114228800&en=b69b67acda66e5b4&ei=5070</A></DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>This is some scary stuff and i just wanted to let everoyne know about

this, because this is the first i have ever heard about this. </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Well have a good one and make sure you eat your salt.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Alex Zeisberg</DIV><BR><BR>Alex Zeisberg<BR>For all your sound

needs...<BR>IFAF Studios<BR>503-626-0114

<P>

<HR SIZE=1>

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Ed Manning

2005-04-16



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In response to widely published articles from April 14, 2005 related to a=

=20

recent report from the New England Journal of Medicine, Carmichael Training=

=20

Systems would like to provide our members with recommendations regarding=20

hyponatremia and its associated risks to endurance athletes.=20



Hyponatremia is defined as a drastically reduced plasma sodium=20

concentration. This is most often a result of ultra-endurance athletes (4-7=

=20

or more hours of exercise) either becoming severely dehydrated, or ingestin=

g=20

large quantities of low-sodium beverages while exercising. It can be a fata=

l=20

situation if not addressed in an appropriate manner, and typical symptoms=

=20

include; disorientation, depression, nausea, vomiting, muscular twitching,=

=20

and grand mal seizures.=20



Hyponatremia is a quite rare occurrence in endurance athletes, as it is ver=

y=20

easy to prevent and treat. Race organizers and coaches have long been=20

advising athletes to drink as much water as possible before and during=20

competitions. The assumption has been, "more is better." This large intake=

=20

of sodium-free fluid dilutes the sodium that is in the plasma and creates a=

=20

situation where the sodium concentration in the blood is too low. In all=20

ultra-endurance competitions, sweat losses are a given. Sodium and other=20

electrolytes are always a part of these sweat losses. Hyponatremia can be a=

=20

result of the replacement of sweat losses with water or another low-sodium=

=20

beverage. The sodium that is lost through sweat NEEDS to be replaced.=20



Increasing dietary sodium intake prior to events, and specifically when=20

ingesting large quantities of water, is helpful. Avoid the urge to=20

pre-hydrate prior to events, with large quantities of plain water. Rather,=

=20

try to use a sports drink that has sodium and other electrolytes included.=

=20

This will benefit you on multiple levels, including water levels,=20

carbohydrate replenishment, and sodium replenishment. Also recognize the=20

sodium content of the various foods you're eating while training contribute=

s=20

to plasma electrolyte levels. Energy gels, bars, and other foods, contain=

=20

various amounts of sodium and other important electrolytes. Combining these=

=20

sources with water or sports drink can also help to maintain optimal plasma=

=20

sodium concentrations.=20



Dehydration is still a critical concern for athletes. To prevent dehydratio=

n=20

during training or events, try to match your fluid intake to the volume of=

=20

fluids lost through sweat. This sweat rate can be easily determined by=20

weighing yourself before and after a workout. Be sure to weigh-in,=20

preferably nude, after toweling off post-workout. Ideally, your post-workou=

t=20

body weight should be within 1-2% of your pre-workout bodyweight. If your=

=20

body weight is roughly equal before and after a one-hour workout, and you=

=20

consumed 24 ounces of fluid, your sweat rate, in those conditions, is=20

roughly 24 ounces per hour. For a three-hour workout in those conditions,=

=20

you should consume 24 x 3 =3D 72 ounces of fluid. Sweat rates will increase=

=20

with higher temperatures and humidity levels, so you should increase your=

=20

fluid intake accordingly.=20



If race day conditions are similar to your measurement day conditions, then=

=20

you'll know roughly how much fluid to ingest on the race course. Increasing=

=20

fluid consumption beyond this level, especially if it's a low-sodium or=20

no-sodium beverage, can result in plasma dilution.=20



Several mass-media articles have intimated that hyponatremia is a common,=

=20

dangerous occurrence that is caused by the ingestion of large quantities of=

=20

fluids and the solution is to drink less while training and racing.=20

Hopefully this response has informed you that fluid intake alone is not the=

=20

culprit, and that optimal performance is dependent upon consuming=20

appropriate amounts of fluid, food, and electrolytes. Dehydration remains a=

=20

greater threat to health and performance than hyponatremia.=20



Carmichael Training Systems





On 4/16/05, alex zeisberg <musicvi-@yahoo.com> wrote:

 =20

=20

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/14/health/14water.html?ex=3D1114228800&en=

=3Db69b67acda66e5b4&ei=3D5070

 This is some scary stuff and i just wanted to let everoyne know about=20

this, because this is the first i have ever heard about this.=20

Well have a good one and make sure you eat your salt.

Alex Zeisberg

=20

=20

Alex Zeisberg

For all your sound needs...

IFAF Studios

503-626-0114

=20

------------------------------

Do you Yahoo!?

Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard<http://us.rd.yahoo.co=

m/mail_us/taglines/spamguard/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/p=

rotection.html>.=20

 =20



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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Content-Disposition: inline



<p align=3D"justify"><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,A=

rial; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">In

response to widely published articles from April 14, 2005 related to a

recent report from the New England Journal of Medicine, Carmichael

Training Systems would like to provide our members with recommendations

regarding hyponatremia and its associated risks to endurance athletes. </fo=

nt></p>

<p><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,Arial; color: rgb(6=

8, 68, 68);">Hyponatremia

is defined as a drastically reduced plasma sodium concentration. This

is most often a result of ultra-endurance athletes (4-7 or more hours

of exercise) either becoming severely dehydrated, or ingesting large

quantities of low-sodium beverages while exercising. It can be a fatal

situation if not addressed in an appropriate manner, and typical

symptoms include; disorientation, depression, nausea, vomiting,

muscular twitching, and grand mal seizures. </font></p>

<p><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,Arial; color: rgb(6=

8, 68, 68);">Hyponatremia

is a quite rare occurrence in endurance athletes, as it is very easy to

prevent and treat. Race organizers and coaches have long been advising

athletes to drink as much water as possible before and during

competitions. The assumption has been, "more is better." This large

intake of sodium-free fluid dilutes the sodium that is in the plasma

and creates a situation where the sodium concentration in the blood is

too low. In all ultra-endurance competitions, sweat losses are a given.

Sodium and other electrolytes are always a part of these sweat losses.

Hyponatremia can be a result of the replacement of sweat losses with

water or another low-sodium beverage. The sodium that is lost through

sweat NEEDS to be replaced. </font></p>

<p><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,Arial; color: rgb(6=

8, 68, 68);">Increasing

dietary sodium intake prior to events, and specifically when ingesting

large quantities of water, is helpful. Avoid the urge to pre-hydrate

prior to events, with large quantities of plain water. Rather, try to

use a sports drink that has sodium and other electrolytes included.

This will benefit you on multiple levels, including water levels,

carbohydrate replenishment, and sodium replenishment. Also recognize

the sodium content of the various foods you're eating while training

contributes to plasma electrolyte levels. Energy gels, bars, and other

foods, contain various amounts of sodium and other important

electrolytes. Combining these sources with water or sports drink can

also help to maintain optimal plasma sodium concentrations. </font></p>

<p><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,Arial; color: rgb(6=

8, 68, 68);">Dehydration

is still a critical concern for athletes. To prevent dehydration during

training or events, try to match your fluid intake to the volume of

fluids lost through sweat. This sweat rate can be easily determined by

weighing yourself before and after a workout. Be sure to weigh-in,

preferably nude, after toweling off post-workout. Ideally, your

post-workout body weight should be within 1-2% of your pre-workout

bodyweight. If your body weight is roughly equal before and after a

one-hour workout, and you consumed 24 ounces of fluid, your sweat rate,

in those conditions, is roughly 24 ounces per hour. For a three-hour

workout in those conditions, you should consume 24 x 3 =3D 72 ounces of

fluid. Sweat rates will increase with higher temperatures and humidity

levels, so you should increase your fluid intake accordingly.

</font></p>

<p><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,Arial; color: rgb(6=

8, 68, 68);">If

race day conditions are similar to your measurement day conditions,

then you'll know roughly how much fluid to ingest on the race course.

Increasing fluid consumption beyond this level, especially if it's a

low-sodium or no-sodium beverage, can result in plasma dilution. </font></p=

 
<p><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,Arial; color: rgb(6=

8, 68, 68);">Several

mass-media articles have intimated that hyponatremia is a common,

dangerous occurrence that is caused by the ingestion of large

quantities of fluids and the solution is to drink less while training

and racing. Hopefully this response has informed you that fluid intake

alone is not the culprit, and that optimal performance is dependent

upon consuming appropriate amounts of fluid, food, and electrolytes.

Dehydration remains a greater threat to health and performance than

hyponatremia. </font></p>

<p><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,Arial; color: rgb(6=

8, 68, 68);">=20

                  </font></p>

<p><font style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana,Arial; color: rgb(6=

8, 68, 68);">Carmichael Training Systems</font></p>

<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 4/16/05, <b class=3D"gmail_send=

ername">alex zeisberg</b> <<a href=3D"mailto:musicvi-@yahoo.com">m=

usicvid-@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=

te" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt=

0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

<div><a href=3D"http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/14/health/14water.html?ex=3D=

1114228800&en=3Db69b67acda66e5b4&ei=3D5070" target=3D"_blank" oncli=

ck=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.nytimes.com/=

2005/04/14/health/14water.html?ex=3D1114228800&en=3Db69b67acda66e5b4&am=

p;ei=3D5070

</a></div>

<div> </div>

<div>This is some scary stuff and i just wanted to let everoyne know

about this, because this is the first i have ever heard about this. </div>

<div> </div>

<div>Well have a good one and make sure you eat your salt.</div>

<div> </div>

<div>Alex Zeisberg</div><span class=3D"sg"><br><br>Alex Zeisberg<br>For all=

your sound needs...<br>IFAF Studios<br>503-626-0114</span><p><span class=

=3D"ad">

=09=09<hr size=3D"1">Do you Yahoo!?<br>=20

Read only the mail you want - <a href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/tag=

lines/spamguard/*http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/protection.htm=

l" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this=

)">

Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard</a>.

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