Matt Plummer

I think we should take the same attitude as we do with fine dining...pay more and get less. As a promoter I think its only fair to walk away with thousands of dollars and don't actually give the racers anything. Except I forgot to include all of the costs of putting on a race. There are the permits, insurance, and, uhhh, I must be leaving something out. Regardless of that, its expensive and thats why people need to dump a huge amount of money into race entries. Lets remember that I have a very high standard of living to maintain, and its only through entry fees that I am able to live the high life. So to all you racers out there, keep coming to the races, and most importantly, keep writing your checks.



Next year I am going to introduce a new style of racing in Central Oregon. Heres the plan...

-I will display race maps on my website

-Interested racers will go ride the course at their convenience

-When the racer has a time they are happy with they will email me and I will add them to the results list

-No entry fee, no hype, no prizes, no raffles, noone getting in the way of each other, no excuses



Disclaimer...this is not a reflection of the views held by Central Oregon Racing.



Matt Plummer

Director of www.centraloregonracing.com

HHP Department Instructor at COCC



________________________________



From: Andrew Beehler [mailto:andyc-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Wed 6/1/2005 10:59 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: FW: [OBRA Chat] mtb race prizes









I think I heard a plug for electronic timing, I would gladly support that

and be willing to purchase or rent the chip/bracelet used for the timing. I

have heard that that is how most triathalons work, the athlete owns the chip

which holds all of their registration information, and the organization owns

the equipment to read it.



-Andrew



-----Original Message-----

From: Jon Myers [mailto:jonem-@lycos.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:30 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] mtb race prizes



Evan,

   You bring up some good points worth talking about.

   From what I can tell from the Utah race you did, you paid at least

$40 and maybe as much as $45 to race which is about 1/3 more than the

average oregon race. Also, it looks like one of the big reasons you got

results so quickly was they only had to score the the Pro/Ex race (about

60 riders) since all the other races started at earlier times. This is

the same way Skibowl races are scheduled and they also have results very

soon after the finish of the race.

   In the case of the race that our club puts on, that extra $10 per

racer that the Utah race charged would be an extra $1,600 for our club.

With money like that, we could probably hire someone to do computerized

timing and hire some staff instead of relying completely on volunteers.

I would guess that most weekend races in Oregon are put on by people

that have other full time jobs and don't get any direct monetary

compensation from putting on the event.

   There have been problems with timely results at some events this year

and clearly some issues with prize lists.

   Would all racers be willing to pay extra to get quick results and

more prizes? Would promoters be willing to spend extra entry fees to

hire officials and augment prize lists?

   Those are not easy to answer questions and I would bet that there are

a lot of different opinions.

   -Jon Myers



Evan Plews wrote:

 

As a former(future?) promoter here are my two cents:



Raffles are both good and bad. Good because they reward attendance and

participation but bad because they are a big waste of time. Because of

this, they really only reward patience! (since patience is a virtue

maybe raffles are inherently good!)



I say give awards 5 deep to all cats with 10 or more riders and 3 deep

otherwise. Make the Pro/Elite/Expert payout standardized (depth/amount

based on number in class) and have all this taken care of before/during

the event. That way all efforts can be focused on results as the racing

concludes.



If there is still schwag when the "awards" are given away, then have a

raffle. Just randomly choose numbers from the start list during the race



and hand out the prizes as the racer crosses the line!



I was at an Intermountain Cup race (Utah) this weekend and my race

didn't start until 1:30pm. I had raced been awarded and was in the car

by 5pm... and the promoter was leaving right behind me. Unbelievable!



See www.intermountaincup.com for information.



PS. The lowest cash prize should always be at least the entry fee + late



fee or it will likely be looked at as insulting...



Thanks!



EP

Damian wrote:

 

I was just wondering what people expect for prizes at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.

In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect from

race organizers because if my prizes are, "insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Evan Plews

Just for clarification...



I used the Intermountain Cup Race simply as an example of something

different. Their method should not be taken as the end all solution to

regional racing. However a couple points to consider:



-$30 entry fee with no license ($40 for Pro)

-set payout for Pros with amount/depth dependent on attendance

-no high-tech timing system (stopwatch/pull-tags)

-awards and raffle(limited) within an hour



I also thought it was cool that the promoters were able to leave within

a couple hours of the race conclusion!



We can't improve without being willing to change...



Thanks for listening!



EP

Jon Myers wrote:

 

Evan,

    You bring up some good points worth talking about.

    From what I can tell from the Utah race you did, you paid at least

$40 and maybe as much as $45 to race which is about 1/3 more than the

average oregon race. Also, it looks like one of the big reasons you got



results so quickly was they only had to score the the Pro/Ex race (about



60 riders) since all the other races started at earlier times. This is

the same way Skibowl races are scheduled and they also have results very



soon after the finish of the race.

    In the case of the race that our club puts on, that extra $10 per

racer that the Utah race charged would be an extra $1,600 for our club.



With money like that, we could probably hire someone to do computerized

timing and hire some staff instead of relying completely on volunteers.



I would guess that most weekend races in Oregon are put on by people

that have other full time jobs and don't get any direct monetary

compensation from putting on the event.

    There have been problems with timely results at some events this year

and clearly some issues with prize lists.

    Would all racers be willing to pay extra to get quick results and

more prizes? Would promoters be willing to spend extra entry fees to

hire officials and augment prize lists?

    Those are not easy to answer questions and I would bet that there are

a lot of different opinions.

    -Jon Myers



Evan Plews wrote:

 

As a former(future?) promoter here are my two cents:



Raffles are both good and bad. Good because they reward attendance and

participation but bad because they are a big waste of time. Because of

this, they really only reward patience! (since patience is a virtue

maybe raffles are inherently good!)



I say give awards 5 deep to all cats with 10 or more riders and 3 deep

otherwise. Make the Pro/Elite/Expert payout standardized (depth/amount

based on number in class) and have all this taken care of before/during

the event. That way all efforts can be focused on results as the racing

concludes.



If there is still schwag when the "awards" are given away, then have a

raffle. Just randomly choose numbers from the start list during the race





and hand out the prizes as the racer crosses the line!



I was at an Intermountain Cup race (Utah) this weekend and my race

didn't start until 1:30pm. I had raced been awarded and was in the car

by 5pm... and the promoter was leaving right behind me. Unbelievable!



See www.intermountaincup.com for information.



PS. The lowest cash prize should always be at least the entry fee + late





fee or it will likely be looked at as insulting...



Thanks!



EP

Damian wrote:

 

I was just wondering what people expect for prizes at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.

In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect from

race organizers because if my prizes are, "insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

Tim Jones

First, I'd like to say that the number one reason I go to a race is a

good course. If the course is fun I will walk away happy. But as long

as we are on the subject of prizes, I'll give my two cents.



I think the way the Chainbreaker did it is the ideal situation for

prizes/raffles. For those of you that weren't there:



- Three prize tables. One for 1st, one for 2nd, one for 3rd

- Call up classes for podium/prizes in order of Experts, then Sports,

then Beginners. Person gets to pick from the appropriate table

something that is useful to them.

- Enough good prizes that the beginners picking last still are getting

cool stuff

- Any schwag left on the table after everyone has picked goes to a

raffle.



This setup assures that anyone that went fast gets something, and if you

hang out you may. I've been to quite a few races where I podiumed, got

a ribbon and then nothing in the raffle. I may be in the minority, but I

could care less if I got another ribbon or medal. I have medals with no

engraving on them that I have no idea what race or year I won it in -

not much of a momento. Medals are probably great for beginners, fine

for sports, but by the time we become experts we have probably amassed

too many for them to become very meaningful.   In Picketts, the ribbon I

got for winning the XC I didn't look twice at (sorry damian), BUT the

custom plaque for winning the stage race was sweet and was definately

well recieved. Chris Cole put some real effort into making them and it

shows.



Prizes don't need to be amazing - although it's a bonus when they are. A

few years ago at the Big-K I won a cookie jar with homemade cookies in

it. That was great - not expensive, but different. I still have the

jar in use. What about going out into the community for sponsors? I've

been to races where I won gift certificates to local restaurants. Good

if the place is open after the race is done - not so good if it's closed

and you can't use it.   A six-pack from the local brewery is always good

(except for those junior classes).





I know raffles were started to make mountain bike races friendlier and

give everyone a chance at winning something, but in January everyone

does have a chance at winning - it just involves a lot of time on

rollers in the garage. If we can, let's reward those who put in that

effort.



Tim Jones

Chris Brandt

When I was a beginner, the racing experience was such a new and

exciting event for me. Each course was, in my mind, an epic experience

where I could overcome great setbacks and close calls with death. It

was fun to be around a group of people who also experienced their own

similar type of thing and many stories were shared. Often times, I

came out of the race with some kind of damaged part or what-have-you,

scrapes and bruises, etc... but totally excited to keep doing it. As a

starving student, the financial side of it stung a bit. The hope that

I might be able to win some bike related freebie at the raffle

softened the sting. That and the amazing and "valuable" prizes I won

as a beginner got me hooked to this day. I think one of the reasons

the raffles were used was to help keep people pre-occupied while the

results were being tallied. It can also help keep people around to

offer a supporting gesture (clapping) when those newbies get called up

on the podium for the first time. Again, this all helps to foster

interest in the sport and can encourage some sustainability within our

sport, one with waning interest.



That said, I love rolling across the line at Mt. Hood (Skibowl) with

my medal waiting for me as they take my pull tag. In the Pro/Elite

category, it's also nice to place in the top 25% and be able to at

least make back your entry fee. I also like the idea that I can hop in

the car and take off right away, or if I would like to stick around

and chat with friends, I might catch a little bottle of White

Lightning lube or a Polar bottle (thanks Randy!). :)



It sure is nice to have OBRA, and I appreciate all the promoters out

there doing all the hard work. Thanks again!



Chris Brandt

Jon Myers

Evan,

   You bring up some good points worth talking about.

   From what I can tell from the Utah race you did, you paid at least

$40 and maybe as much as $45 to race which is about 1/3 more than the

average oregon race. Also, it looks like one of the big reasons you got

results so quickly was they only had to score the the Pro/Ex race (about

60 riders) since all the other races started at earlier times. This is

the same way Skibowl races are scheduled and they also have results very

soon after the finish of the race.

   In the case of the race that our club puts on, that extra $10 per

racer that the Utah race charged would be an extra $1,600 for our club.

With money like that, we could probably hire someone to do computerized

timing and hire some staff instead of relying completely on volunteers.

I would guess that most weekend races in Oregon are put on by people

that have other full time jobs and don't get any direct monetary

compensation from putting on the event.

   There have been problems with timely results at some events this year

and clearly some issues with prize lists.

   Would all racers be willing to pay extra to get quick results and

more prizes? Would promoters be willing to spend extra entry fees to

hire officials and augment prize lists?

   Those are not easy to answer questions and I would bet that there are

a lot of different opinions.

   -Jon Myers



Evan Plews wrote:

 

As a former(future?) promoter here are my two cents:



Raffles are both good and bad. Good because they reward attendance and

participation but bad because they are a big waste of time. Because of

this, they really only reward patience! (since patience is a virtue

maybe raffles are inherently good!)



I say give awards 5 deep to all cats with 10 or more riders and 3 deep

otherwise. Make the Pro/Elite/Expert payout standardized (depth/amount

based on number in class) and have all this taken care of before/during

the event. That way all efforts can be focused on results as the racing

concludes.



If there is still schwag when the "awards" are given away, then have a

raffle. Just randomly choose numbers from the start list during the race



and hand out the prizes as the racer crosses the line!



I was at an Intermountain Cup race (Utah) this weekend and my race

didn't start until 1:30pm. I had raced been awarded and was in the car

by 5pm... and the promoter was leaving right behind me. Unbelievable!



See www.intermountaincup.com for information.



PS. The lowest cash prize should always be at least the entry fee + late



fee or it will likely be looked at as insulting...



Thanks!



EP

Damian wrote:

 

I was just wondering what people expect for prizes at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.

In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect from

race organizers because if my prizes are, "insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

Ron & Dorothy

1) The most important thing is that riders get the chance to test themselves

on the courses and against others!!!!

2) It is also very important for individuals (it means different things to

each) to receive the awards...be it ribbons, swag or whatever. Each person

attaches personal significance to said prizes. The sponsors putting these

prizes up for riders should be appreciated because they care enough to give.

I know all I have said means different things to different folks reading

this... but when you have people caring enough to put on these races for us,

we need to help them where we can. If they mess up, help them in a positive

manner because the good they do outweighs minor problems. They put out so

much of their personal time doing this for us. Lets help them. When they

find success so do we.

ron.... just a beginner

----- Original Message -----

From: "Damian" <twowhe-@yahoo.com>

To: <bendcy-@topica.com>; <ob-@topica.com>; <obra-@topica.com>

Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:15 AM

Subject: [OBRA Chat] mtb race prizes





 I was just wondering what people expect for prizes at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.

In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect from

race organizers because if my prizes are, "insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Evan Plews

As a former(future?) promoter here are my two cents:



Raffles are both good and bad. Good because they reward attendance and

participation but bad because they are a big waste of time. Because of

this, they really only reward patience! (since patience is a virtue

maybe raffles are inherently good!)



I say give awards 5 deep to all cats with 10 or more riders and 3 deep

otherwise. Make the Pro/Elite/Expert payout standardized (depth/amount

based on number in class) and have all this taken care of before/during

the event. That way all efforts can be focused on results as the racing

concludes.



If there is still schwag when the "awards" are given away, then have a

raffle. Just randomly choose numbers from the start list during the race

and hand out the prizes as the racer crosses the line!



I was at an Intermountain Cup race (Utah) this weekend and my race

didn't start until 1:30pm. I had raced been awarded and was in the car

by 5pm... and the promoter was leaving right behind me. Unbelievable!



See www.intermountaincup.com for information.



PS. The lowest cash prize should always be at least the entry fee + late

fee or it will likely be looked at as insulting...



Thanks!



EP

Damian wrote:

 

I was just wondering what people expect for prizes at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.

In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect from

race organizers because if my prizes are, "insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

Matt Plummer

Enough is enough. If you say that you don't like raffles, you're full of it. There's just something about the chance to win some free stuff that appeals to everyone. The beauty of the raffle is the typical clause of "must be present to win". If you don't want to win anything, then don't be present.



I think that raffles are the way to go. Everyone has a chance to win something.



Why should we reward the folks that should upgrade but don't? Maybe race prizes should start at 10th place just to make it interesting.



That's my opinion...and yes, I've put on a couple races, so I am an authority in this area.



And one last thing...don't forget to visit my site... www.centraloregonracing.com



Matt Plummer

Director of www.centraloregonracing.com

HHP Department Instructor at COCC

brian-cc

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.



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I agree with giving out a token prize such as cheap ribbons or such -

maybe 6 deep in each class/category. I will never be in the money, so I

couldn't care less about that; but it would be nice to reflect on a good

race years later. Other souvenirs, like t-shirts and socks are nice

too.







I don't like the raffles. The sponsor products are great, but maybe a

better way to disperse them. (just a silly idea, but maybe give out

prizes based on random finishing spot - e.g. the 87th person to finish

gets this pump, the 94th gets this hat, etc.. Then you could give out

schwag as people finish. Hmm, maybe a logistics nightmare. Well, anyway

you get the idea.)







-Brian List







-----Original Message-----

From: Gary Malcolm [mailto:gary.m-@gmail.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:37 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] MTB race prizes







Prizes are cool but really unnecessary...



It's funny how folks will spend $5000 on bikes and equipment and

complain about not getting a hundred dollar prize!





That said, my favorite prize was given at this year's Cherry Pie... and

it wasn't the delicious pie. It was the ribbon for placing third. That

thing probably cost a few cents but I've proudly had it hanging from my

rear-view mirror ever since. I'm surprised organizers haven't handed

ribbons out more often.



Gary Malcolm







On 5/31/05, dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com> wrote:



That's kind of funny that some one would E-mail that! I got first in my

class and I received a Jersey witch was worth 50+ dollars and that was a

super prize!

And if you think about it most of the people that sign up and pay their

entry fee do not stand a chance of wining a prize, so if you do get any

prize it should be a big plus! Myself I race for the fun or racing and

not to win something, I pay my entry fee for the promoter to run the

race, and if I get a prize, all the better what ever it is.

I am always amazed at the sore sports out there!!!!

Dan...



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com .

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<div class=Section1>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree with giving out a token prize such

as cheap ribbons or such - maybe 6 deep in each class/category.  I will

never be in the money, so I couldn’t care less about that; but it would

be nice to reflect on a good race years later.  Other souvenirs, like

t-shirts and socks are nice too.</span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don’t like the raffles.  The sponsor

products are great, but maybe a better way to disperse them.  (just a

silly idea, but maybe give out prizes based on random finishing spot – e.g.

the 87^th person to finish gets this pump, the 94^th gets

this hat, etc..  Then you could give out schwag as people finish. 

Hmm, maybe a logistics nightmare. Well, anyway you get the idea.)</span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>-Brian List</span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span

style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>

<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Gary Malcolm

[mailto:gary.m-@gmail.com] <br>

<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:37

PM<br>

<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ob-@topica.com<br>

<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [OBRA Chat] MTB race

prizes</span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span

style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>



<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:

.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Prizes

are cool but really unnecessary... <br>

<br>

It's funny how folks will spend $5000 on bikes and equipment and complain about

not getting a hundred dollar prize!<br>

<br>

<br>

That said, my favorite prize was given at this year's Cherry Pie... and it

wasn't the delicious pie. It was the ribbon for placing third. That thing

probably cost a few cents but I've proudly  had it hanging from my

rear-view mirror ever since. I'm surprised organizers haven't handed ribbons

out more often.<br>

<br>

Gary Malcolm<br>

<br>

</span></font></p>



<div>



<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=gmailquote><font

size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 5/31/05, <b><span

style='font-weight:bold'>dan davis</span></b> <<a

href="mailto:da-@preciseflight.com">da-@preciseflight.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></span></p>



<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:

.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>That's

kind of funny that some one would E-mail that! I got first in my<br>

class and I received a Jersey witch was worth 50+ dollars and that was a<br>

super prize!<br>

And if you think about it most of the people that sign up and pay their <br>

entry fee do not stand a chance of wining a prize, so if you do get any<br>

prize it should be a big plus!  Myself I race for the fun or racing

and<br>

not to win something, I pay my entry fee for the promoter to run the <br>

race, and if I get a prize, all the better what ever it is.<br>

I am always amazed at the sore sports out there!!!!<br>

Dan...<br>

<br>

To respond to the whole group send to <a href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com

</a>.<br>

To respond to the list manager send to <a href="mailto:cmur-@obra.org">cmur-@obra.org</a><br>

To unsubscribe send to <a href="mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com">obra-uns-@topica.com</a><br>



</div>



<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span

style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>

<br>

<br>

-- <br>

. . . . . .__o<br>

. . . . . .\<,<br>

. . . . ( )/ ( ) </span></font></p>



</div>



</body>



</html>



------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C565E8.A99FB000--

Gary Malcolm

------=_Part_20008_32107999.1117571812965

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Content-Disposition: inline



Prizes are cool but really unnecessary...=20



It's funny how folks will spend $5000 on bikes and equipment and complain=

=20

about not getting a hundred dollar prize!





That said, my favorite prize was given at this year's Cherry Pie... and it=

=20

wasn't the delicious pie. It was the ribbon for placing third. That thing=

=20

probably cost a few cents but I've proudly had it hanging from my rear-view=

=20

mirror ever since. I'm surprised organizers haven't handed ribbons out more=

=20

often.



Gary Malcolm





On 5/31/05, dan davis <da-@preciseflight.com> wrote:

 =20

That's kind of funny that some one would E-mail that! I got first in my

class and I received a Jersey witch was worth 50+ dollars and that was a

super prize!

And if you think about it most of the people that sign up and pay their

entry fee do not stand a chance of wining a prize, so if you do get any

prize it should be a big plus! Myself I race for the fun or racing and

not to win something, I pay my entry fee for the promoter to run the

race, and if I get a prize, all the better what ever it is.

I am always amazed at the sore sports out there!!!!

Dan...

=20

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

=20

=20

--=20

. . . . . .__o

. . . . . .\<,

. . . . ( )/ ( )



------=_Part_20008_32107999.1117571812965

Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Content-Disposition: inline



Prizes are cool but really unnecessary... <br>

<br>

It's funny how folks will spend $5000 on bikes and equipment and complain a=

bout not getting a hundred dollar prize!<br>

<br>

<br>

That said, my favorite prize was given at this year's Cherry Pie... and

it wasn't the delicious pie. It was the ribbon for placing third. That

thing probably cost a few cents but I've proudly  had it hanging

from my rear-view mirror ever since. I'm surprised organizers haven't

handed ribbons out more often.<br>

<br>

Gary Malcolm<br>

<br>

<br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 5/31/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendern=

ame">dan davis</b> <<a href=3D"mailto:da-@preciseflight.com">dand@preci=

seflight.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=

=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p=

adding-left: 1ex;">

That's kind of funny that some one would E-mail that! I got first in my<br>=

class and I received a Jersey witch was worth 50+ dollars and that was a<br=

 super prize!<br>And if you think about it most of the people that sign up =

and pay their

<br>entry fee do not stand a chance of wining a prize, so if you do get any=

<br>prize it should be a big plus!  Myself I race for the fun or =

racing and<br>not to win something, I pay my entry fee for the promoter to =

run the

<br>race, and if I get a prize, all the better what ever it is.<br>I am alw=

ays amazed at the sore sports out there!!!!<br>Dan...<br><br>To respond to =

the whole group send to <a href=3D"mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com

</a>.<br>To respond to the list manager send to <a href=3D"mailto:cmurray@o=

bra.org">cmur-@obra.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send to <a href=3D"mailto:o=

bra-unsu-@topica.com">obra-uns-@topica.com</a><br>--^---------=

-------------------------------------------------------

<br>This email was sent to: <a href=3D"mailto:gary.m-@gmail.com">gary.=

malc-@gmail.com</a><br><br>EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: <a href=3D"http:/=

/topica.com/u/?aVxiDp.bpch1P.Z2FyeS5t">http://topica.com/help/unsub.html.Z=

2FyeS5t

</a><br>Or send an email to: <a href=3D"mailto:obra-uns-@topica.com"=

 obra-uns-@topica.com</a><br><br>For Topica's complete suite of emai=

l marketing solutions visit:<br><a href=3D"http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFO=

OTER">

http://www.topica.com/?p=3DTEXFOOTER</a><br>--^----------------------------=

------------------------------------<br><br></blockquote></div><br><br><br>=

-- <br>. . . . . .__o<br>. . . . . .\<,<br>. . . . ( )/ ( )



------=_Part_20008_32107999.1117571812965--

dan davis

That?s kind of funny that some one would E-mail that! I got first in my

class and I received a Jersey witch was worth 50+ dollars and that was a

super prize!

And if you think about it most of the people that sign up and pay their

entry fee do not stand a chance of wining a prize, so if you do get any

prize it should be a big plus! Myself I race for the fun or racing and

not to win something, I pay my entry fee for the promoter to run the

race, and if I get a prize, all the better what ever it is.

I am always amazed at the sore sports out there!!!!

Dan...

andrew.-@farmersinsurance.com

I think the prizes are more than appropriate. I think the prizes should be

given to the top 5 or so in each category or the juniors as opposed to a

raffle. Everyone that travels hates waiting around for the raffle 2 hours

after a race. I am not a podium guy so I would not get any of the prizes

so give them to who earned them right after the race.



As for getting prizes it is next to impossible. Looking for some handouts

for a few very noteworthy events I found that it is thin picking.



90% of the gang I know ( sport, expert and pro) go to races for great

courses and well put together results and venues not the prizes so put the

money there.





Drew Holmes







                                                                                                                                       

                      Damian                                                                                                           

                      <twowheeldork@yah        To:       bendcy-@topica.com, ob-@topica.com, obra-@topica.com                  

                      oo.com>                  cc:                                                                                     

                                               Subject: [OBRA Chat] mtb race prizes                                                   

                      05/31/2005 11:15                                                                                                 

                      AM                                                                                                               

                      Please respond to                                                                                                

                      twowheeldork                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                       









I was just wondering what people expect for prizes at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.

In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect from

race organizers because if my prizes are, "insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

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To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

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Freyensee, James P

Hey all,



Please also keep in mind how lucky we all are to have a wonderful

bicycle racing scene in this state. Other states are not so lucky (I

have lived in one of those not-so-lucky states). We are out to race,

have fun, kick butt, and be fortunate to get prizes.



Jay



-----Original Message-----

From: Randy Dreiling [mailto:ragg-@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 12:33 PM

To: twowhe-@yahoo.com; bendcy-@topica.com; ob-@topica.com;

obra-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] mtb race prizes



I would like to add that it is getting harder every

year to get and keep sponsors that provide the prizes

that are used for awards or raffle. Bike companies are

cutting back on sponsorships big time.



Plus I know we lost one long time oregon mt bike

series sponsor because last year a race that is no

longer in our series called their prizes " a f***n

joke" and one of their sponsored racers overheard and

told the company and they decided not to sponsor this

year.



Promoters have normal lives too and we do the best we

can with the time, money and help we have to provide

the best races we can. I don't think some people have

any idea the amount of time and effort it takes to put

on an event. Plus the BS you deal with like permits

before the race.



Randy Dreiling

--- Damian <twowhe-@yahoo.com> wrote:

 I was just wondering what people expect for prizes

at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some

people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other

gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and

3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.



In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or

negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect

from

race organizers because if my prizes are,

"insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college

classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

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protection around

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To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Randy Dreiling

I would like to add that it is getting harder every

year to get and keep sponsors that provide the prizes

that are used for awards or raffle. Bike companies are

cutting back on sponsorships big time.



Plus I know we lost one long time oregon mt bike

series sponsor because last year a race that is no

longer in our series called their prizes " a f***n

joke" and one of their sponsored racers overheard and

told the company and they decided not to sponsor this

year.



Promoters have normal lives too and we do the best we

can with the time, money and help we have to provide

the best races we can. I don't think some people have

any idea the amount of time and effort it takes to put

on an event. Plus the BS you deal with like permits

before the race.



Randy Dreiling

--- Damian <twowhe-@yahoo.com> wrote:

 I was just wondering what people expect for prizes

at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some

people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other

gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and

3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.



In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or

negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect

from

race organizers because if my prizes are,

"insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college

classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam

protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com



To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

cmur-@obra.org

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

Damian

I was just wondering what people expect for prizes at

a mountain bike race. I received an anonymous

feedback stating that Pickett's prizes were

"insulting." Now, I know Pickett's pissed some people

off this year, but I would have put prizes at the

bottom of the list. I've been to 2 mtb races this

year (only using as an example, I don't care about

prizes) and one provided no prizes and the other gave

a pint glass (now heavily used) to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Now along with this came money to the top Pro/Elite.

In addition to that the races had big raffles. Do

people want raffles instead of top 3 prizes? I've

chosen to give items to the top 3 and only give out

what is left over at the end of the day. Here's a

sample list of my, "insulting," prizes: 4 giro

helmets, wool IBEX clothing (arm, knee, shorts,

jersey), nice wrench force floor pumps, Carnac MTB

shoes, and yes prizes went as low as bottle cages.

Plus I gave out $2000 in cash to Pro/elite men and

women.



Now this email isn't meant to get praise, or negative

comments about my prizes, results or award times

(still good in my opinion and I've been to a lot of

races), but it's meant to hear what people expect from

race organizers because if my prizes are, "insulting,"

I have no idea what you are getting else where.

Thanks and I'll see ya at the races.



damian



ps 1 out of 3 bad Pickett's is still 66% good, which

gets you through a lot of college classes.......After

next year I'll raise my grade to 75%.



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com